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It's not fair, it's not ideal, but it is how things have always been done. It's not like the past 3 generations can be undone there. So, now, what should happen there?
This I understand. But I would like Jeruselum to go back to UN control (so I might be able to visit, as I currently boycott Israeli products or a visit to Israel)
ALSO, I believe the land has to be divided, somewhere closer to the agreement that was almost made between Arafat and Ehud Barack or however you spell the guy's name.
The USA needs to recognize the state of Palestine, which our POS President didn't do a couple months ago (yet the rest of the world did.......). And the illegal settlements must be removed.
That at least makes things a bit more "right." Violence afterwards by Palestinians toward Israelies, and Israelies toward Palestinians, is something that both countries should be held accountable for
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
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It's not fair, it's not ideal, but it is how things have always been done. It's not like the past 3 generations can be undone there. So, now, what should happen there?
This I understand.
Ok, good. Now, we can go through what steps may be able to take place.
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But I would like Jeruselum to go back to UN control (so I might be able to visit, as I currently boycott Israeli products or a visit to Israel)
outside the personal gain, I am not sure if this would be beneficial or not. you would need a completely unbiased faction in charge and the UN is not that. it is not without precedent though. there have been cities of dual control throughout history and would be worth exploring. however, what do you do to all those that live and work there now?
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ALSO, I believe the land has to be divided, somewhere closer to the agreement that was almost made between Arafat and Ehud Barack or however you spell the guy's name.
this is the big one. and the toughest. at some point, you are uprooting people from their homes whether they be Israeli or Palestinian. I do not know the fair way to do this nor is any agreement going to make either side happy with the end result. I don't think it would end any of the issues, but there is potential that they could create a more equitable solution.
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The USA needs to recognize the state of Palestine, which our POS President didn't do a couple months ago (yet the rest of the world did.......). And the illegal settlements must be removed.
I agree we should recognize the state of Palestine. Not sure why we do not. The 2nd part there goes with figuring out the land situation from above.
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That at least makes things a bit more "right." Violence afterwards by Palestinians toward Israelies, and Israelies toward Palestinians, is something that both countries should be held accountable for
Everything here though is giving from Israeli to Palestine. There needs to be things in both directions or it is only going to escalate. I understand that things in the past have tilted the Israeli way, but we are trying to move forward here.
#gmstrong
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Hall of Famer
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Don't be stupid, man! You know this country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles. Every Western civilization is.
I could have sworn it was founded by people escaping religious persecution.
You would be wrong. The pilgrims that came over on the Mayflower and Jamestown before, were not the Founders of this country.
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Unless of course when you say, "Founded" you mean the people who organized our first government. Even that is open to political conflict due to the misinterpretation of the separation of church and state.
There is no 'separation of Church and state' stated in the documents that found this nation. The origins of the idea of 'separation of Church and state' were from a private correspondence between Thomas Jefferson and the Danbury Baptists and comes more than a decade after the Constitution was adopted.
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Legend
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Legend
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If we were founded on Judeo-Christian principles, then why don't our laws - now or then - reflect that? Why, for instance, are only two of the Ten Commandments law? You would think if we were founded on relighious principles, then our laws and society would reflect that.
I don't deny that a lot of men responsible for our country's inception were religious, but the nation wasn't founded on Judeo-Christian principles.
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Legend
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Legend
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Just saying .....
It's been almost 100 years since WWI took place. It's been more than 60 years since the state of Israel came (back) into existence.
By now this should be a non-issue, but the Palestinian issue cannot, and will not be settled because of all of the outside forces pressuring them not to settle.
Imagine if there was suddenly a state of Palestine, with a non aggression pact between Palestine and Israel, with joint governance of Jerusalem, and firmly established borders. Many of the problems in the Middle East would suddenly settle themselves.
That simply cannot be allowed to happen though. Too many people would lose their power if it happened. Too many people are too heavily invested in maintaining the hatred in the region.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
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If we were founded on Judeo-Christian principles, then why don't our laws - now or then - reflect that? Why, for instance, are only two of the Ten Commandments law? You would think if we were founded on relighious principles, then our laws and society would reflect that.
They do.. and we were... Do not make the mistake of equating the concept of being founder under Christian principles with something like Shari Law which is a requirement to follow a certain set of legal principles. Our founding fathers were smart enough to not legislate in every commandment, not because they didn't believe in them, but because they realized that it is counter-intuitive to having a country with religious freedom, which was one of their primary objectives. That's why the only 2 commandments enacted into law are stealing and killing, because they affect other people... All of the other commandments are essentially between you, your family, and God..
yebat' Putin
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
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Don't be stupid, man! You know this country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles. Every Western civilization is.
I could have sworn it was founded by people escaping religious persecution.
You would be wrong. The pilgrims that came over on the Mayflower and Jamestown before, were not the Founders of this country.
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Unless of course when you say, "Founded" you mean the people who organized our first government. Even that is open to political conflict due to the misinterpretation of the separation of church and state.
There is no 'separation of Church and state' stated in the documents that found this nation. The origins of the idea of 'separation of Church and state' were from a private correspondence between Thomas Jefferson and the Danbury Baptists and comes more than a decade after the Constitution was adopted.
The Godless Constitution
The word "God" does not appear within the text of the Constitution of the United States. After spending three-and-a-half months debating and negotiating about what should go into the document that would govern the land, the framers drafted a constitution that is secular. The U.S. Constitution is often confused with the Declaration of Independence, and it's important to understand the difference.
The Declaration of Independence is seen as that document that established the new nation of the United States. It was written by Thomas Jefferson in 1776. It was signed by the Continental Congress and sent to King George III of England. It is a very eloquent document that is celebrated every July 4, but it is not the law of the land. It is a statement of sentiments directed to King George III in reaction to unfair taxation. The U.S. Constitution was ratified on March 4, 1789 -- thirteen years after the signing of the Declaration of Independence.
The Declaration of Independence refers to "the Creator:"
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
The Declaration of Independence is not a legal document; it is not the U.S. Constitution. Foes of the principle of separation of church and state often refer to the word "Creator" in the Declaration of Independence as proof that the framers of the U.S. Constitution intended for the United States to be ruled by a soveriegn being. Nothing could be further from the truth. The United States Constitution was written and ratified by elected officials representing a coalition of Enlightenment rationalists and evangelical Christians who were deeply concerned about entanglements between religion and government.
link
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Hall of Famer
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OP
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The founding fathers were deists, at best, and were nowhere close to the modern day equivalency of Christianity. I also refer you to The Treaty of Tripoly which firmly establishes were are not a nation founded on Judeo-Christian principles.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
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They do.. and we were...
You're arguing that our current laws are based in Judeo-Christian principles? 
I'd argue the only time Judeo-Christian principles enter into the picture is when a voting bloc needs to be mobilized.
Again, our founders were religious, but it didn't really seep into laws or way of life heavily enough for us to be considered a nation based on Judeo-Christian principles.
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Our founding fathers were smart enough to not legislate in every commandment, not because they didn't believe in them, but because they realized that it is counter-intuitive to having a country with religious freedom, which was one of their primary objectives. That's why the only 2 commandments enacted into law are stealing and killing, because they affect other people... All of the other commandments are essentially between you, your family, and God..
That's not founding a country on Judeo-Christian principles. That's Christians founding a country and for the most part leaving their superstitions at the door.
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~ Legend
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~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
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I once read in a book that said something along the lines of, "Government and Religion should be separated, because the government is already dumb enough."
I like that logic.
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