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Ouch!!! 12 mil per? I like Kruger and Avril but thats a tough contract to swallow. If thats the going rate I would be inclined to either sign Barwin or draft Jones at 6.
Once Again, WAY TOO MUCH $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ... JMHO 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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On one hand I'd rather have Kruger, guys converting from a 4-3 are always a project.
On the other hand I think Avril can rush the passer better.
Honestly we could use both, our LBing core is pathetic aside from Dquell.
We could def use........and afford both.
Lotsa $$$ room and not many extendable players to spend it on.
Extendables?
Juice up Alex Mack with a new contract?
Rubin? Didn't they extend him a year or so ago?
Who else deserves to be "upped" a little.
Too many unprovens to extend and I believe we have to spend up to a certain level???
Could be/should be a busy FA season here.
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Ouch!!! 12 mil per? I like Kruger and Avril but thats a tough contract to swallow. If thats the going rate I would be inclined to either sign Barwin or draft Jones at 6.
Once Again, WAY TOO MUCH $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ... JMHO
It's not your money, and we have the cap room.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Ouch!!! 12 mil per? I like Kruger and Avril but thats a tough contract to swallow. If thats the going rate I would be inclined to either sign Barwin or draft Jones at 6.
Once Again, WAY TOO MUCH $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ... JMHO
It's not your money, and we have the cap room.
Sorry Mr Hasslem. I didnt realize we shouldnt have an opinion on what a percieved contract would be. 
Just because we have cap space doesnt mean we have to OVERPAY. And what do we do when Mack and Haden are up and we have ZERO cap space because we made bad decisions when we had space?
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If thats the going rate I would be inclined to either sign Barwin or draft Jones at 6.
Barwin said he didn't want to play for the Browns during an interview on Sirius XM earlier this week.
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Really? Scratch him off the list then. I find it odd that a player would say something like that without even seeing what a team had to offer. Did he give a reason?  Thanks for the info Rambo.
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Just because we have cap space doesn't mean we have to OVERPAY. And what do we do when Mack and Haden are up and we have ZERO cap space because we made bad decisions when we had space?
This is exactly right. You could extend the contracts of Mack & Haden right now.
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All Pro
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A few things seem pretty clear right now. The Browns are more worried about replacing Weeden than developing him. They won't say anything publicly about him because they know they might be stuck with him for awhile. I'm ok with a QB change if they really think the new guy can be the guy for the next 5 years. I don't want to invest any money or picks in a stopgap even if they are slightly better. They need to love the next QB if they are going to change and then fully support them and wait for him to develop. I am personally hoping Weeden gets another real chance. Next, I know the Browns would love to make a huge splash in free agency. They will be throwing BIG $$$ at free agents. If players turn down big offers from the Browns and we don't land at least one big name I will be both  and 
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A few things seem pretty clear right now. The Browns are more worried about replacing Weeden than developing him. They won't say anything publicly about him because they know they might be stuck with him for awhile. I'm ok with a QB change if they really think the new guy can be the guy for the next 5 years. I don't want to invest any money or picks in a stopgap even if they are slightly better. They need to love the next QB if they are going to change and then fully support them and wait for him to develop. I am personally hoping Weeden gets another real chance.
Next, I know the Browns would love to make a huge splash in free agency. They will be throwing BIG $$$ at free agents. If players turn down big offers from the Browns and we don't land at least one big name I will be both and
I think I'm be more miffed if they threw those BIG $$$ at average players and sign them rather them throwing BIG $$$ at big name FA and having them go elsewhere.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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The other thing that the extra cap allows us over other teams though is front-loading a contract. It's speculated, the going rate may be $12M/yr...... if we offered something along the lines of 5yr/$50M ... 30M SB and $18M total in the first year, that has to draw interest. If i understand how things break down, base salary would be something like 10 / 1 / 2 / 3 / 4.....cap hits being 16 / 7 / 8 / 9 / 10 over the 5 yrs. This would allow us to take advantage of our cap now while saving a little thru the seasons. In that 5th year, a potential cut would save the team 4Mill if needed.... or a restructuring.
This type of deal could be applied to any of the high interest FA's we are looking at. whether Kruger, Avril, or Wallace.
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Again, front-loading is dangerous. Why should a player you don't even know show up to play if you give him half the contract money in year 1? You motivate him to slack it and get released asap so he can get the next fat SB as a "reclamation" player just 1 year removed from greatness...more probably though you'll get a player that flashes enough to tease you into the next workout bonus....but not the monster you paid for
It's bad enough if you overpay in FA, it's even worse and a bigger risk if you frontload that risk
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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There are some impressive names we are contacting since midnight. And an interesting one in Julian Edelman WR NE.
Avril
Kruger
Lewis
Cromartie
Smith
Myers TE
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If the Lions are dumb enough to let Avirl go, which they are, I say go after him. He had 29 sacks over the past 3 seasons. Avril can also play OLB, which he played at Purdue.
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If the Lions are dumb enough to let Avirl go, which they are, I say go after him. He had 29 sacks over the past 3 seasons. Avril can also play OLB, which he played at Purdue.
And playing in the Wide 9 Defense may help in the transition to a 3-4 OLB?
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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If the Lions are dumb enough to let Avirl go, which they are, I say go after him. He had 29 sacks over the past 3 seasons. Avril can also play OLB, which he played at Purdue.
And playing in the Wide 9 Defense may help in the transition to a 3-4 OLB?
Avril would be a great addition, I just hope we don't break the bank for one player ... JMHO 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Does Avril want $12 million?
The guy can't play the run. I can understand having a one-dimensional pass rusher on your team, but I don't think I would pay him $12 million. I would rather draft a guy like Dion Jordan [my personal favorite] or Ansah from BYU.
If we don't take a pass rusher early, an interesting name is Quanterius Smith from W. Kentucky. Not sure about the spelling of his first name, but it's probably close. He's green, but has good speed and is explosive.
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Does Avril want $12 million?
The guy can't play the run. I can understand having a one-dimensional pass rusher on your team, but I don't think I would pay him $12 million. I would rather draft a guy like Dion Jordan [my personal favorite] or Ansah from BYU.
Just being curious here what you see in Jordan....I've watched some of his games and I just don't see it, he isn't bad but he's just so "meh" across the board for me...for a guy playing standing up he had very, very little production/impact imho. I'm all in on Ansah though, love the motor and upside, but looks like he'll go top 5 now.
As I said in the draft section, we need to cover at least 2 of CB, FS and OLB in FA, otherwise we'd be "need-handcuffed" in the draft pretty badly, which always leads to reaches and bad drafts
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Ellerbe is priority #2 after Flacco for the Ravens. Which probably means they can't do anything for Kruger, Reed, & Williams.
And Boldin's name can also be thrown into that mix there. Ellerbe is going to a crucial priority for Baltimore. They're definitely in line to make some difficult decisions. Just makes all the more possible for Kruger to turn into an Orange and Brown!
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Ellerbe is priority #2 after Flacco for the Ravens. Which probably means they can't do anything for Kruger, Reed, & Williams.
And Boldin's name can also be thrown into that mix there. Ellerbe is going to a crucial priority for Baltimore. They're definitely in line to make some difficult decisions. Just makes all the more possible for Kruger to turn into an Orange and Brown!
There is an article somewhere on here that says the Ravens are asking Bolden to take a cut in pay.., Kind of testing his comments about retirement.
I get the feeling he's not a priority.
EDIT: Found it
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...avens-ultimatum
Last edited by Damanshot; 03/09/13 01:27 PM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Kruger is not anything special,( excuse me, "ain't nothin" special) and I sure hope they don't get him.
How many years have we been watching football? God Please don't let Jimmy Haslem be forced to learn all of these simple lessons of what not to do at our, (the fans) expense.
Stay away from free agency, except one or two per year at most.
This offseason could be historically as bad as that terrible year when Mangini traded the top draft pic with the jets for a bunch of losers; and everything else that went on that year.
... ... Can Chudzinski get out of his team, more than Schurmur got out of his team? I don't know yet. But I know one thing.
Norv Turner is not a coaching genius, and I'd take Childress and Juron over Norv and Horton, so the decsisions so far have been ... not great.
Can this Browns team be prepared to win the opener or the first two games? Is this team prepared to have a legitamate shot at a championship? I doubt it.
Look at it this way. Top teams have their qb for 4+ years in the system, on the team, and don't change all the coaches +Gm unless they really deserve it.
Top teams sometimes stay the course after one bad season, like every team in our division did in the last 6-7 years.
Top teams have a core solid group of players who stay together, so they can know their role and learn how to win as a team.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Does Avril want $12 million?
The guy can't play the run. I can understand having a one-dimensional pass rusher on your team, but I don't think I would pay him $12 million. I would rather draft a guy like Dion Jordan [my personal favorite] or Ansah from BYU.
If we don't take a pass rusher early, an interesting name is Quanterius Smith from W. Kentucky. Not sure about the spelling of his first name, but it's probably close. He's green, but has good speed and is explosive.
In FA I'd rather have Harrison for $6M, then draft another pass rusher like Ziggy.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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In FA I'd rather have Harrison for $6M, then draft another pass rusher like Ziggy.
And I'd rather take a sharp stick in the eye than have a POS like James Harrison on this team.
Avril is a good rusher but doesn't give much against the run, and we have no idea what he'd give in coverage. Kruger is better against the run but is going to cost a pretty penny for a guy who finally had a solid year at just the right time. To me, Kruger is the better bet, and I really had my sights set on Avril before we switched to the 3-4.
Paying the high price for a veteran to man the SOLB position has the added benefit of giving us HUGE flexibility in the draft, including moving Sheard, should we elect to do that.
Would LOVE to see us get a rusher in FA and be able to get Milliner in the draft.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Why would we move Sheard? If we had Avril I doubt we would ever have to find out if he could cover, he would rush the passer 99% of the time.
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In FA I'd rather have Harrison for $6M, then draft another pass rusher like Ziggy.
And I'd rather take a sharp stick in the eye than have a POS like James Harrison on this team.
Avril is a good rusher but doesn't give much against the run, and we have no idea what he'd give in coverage. Kruger is better against the run but is going to cost a pretty penny for a guy who finally had a solid year at just the right time. To me, Kruger is the better bet, and I really had my sights set on Avril before we switched to the 3-4.
Paying the high price for a veteran to man the SOLB position has the added benefit of giving us HUGE flexibility in the draft, including moving Sheard, should we elect to do that.
Would LOVE to see us get a rusher in FA and be able to get Milliner in the draft.
The main guy I have my eyes set on is Rodgers-Cromartie. I think Rodgers-Cromartie is probably my number one target. I've always thought he was good. And I doubt he'll command the money those DE's will. I'm also interested in Martellus Bennet and Kenny Phillips, Danario Alexander, Dustin Keller.
I just feel that the money we'd be looking to spend on Kruger and Avril is so high. I'd rather offer money to Rodgers-Cromo. He's a good player. I know that one, athletic, still young, tall but quick like his cousin Antonio Cromo (who's great).
I feel safer with that, get ourselves a number two corner to go side by side with Joe. How about Shaun Phillips, has he gotten so old that his play has really dropped off? I just prefer a cheaper option at the OLB position. How about Matt Roth, what happened to that guy?
I know that Dustin Keller and Martellus Bennet produce, that sounds good to me at the TE position. Both have pretty good hands and are athletic. It would be a very good target to give our QB. If Kenny Phillips is healthy, he's a darn good player too.
I just feel that the team seems focused on these pass rushers who might not be that great............. I'd look elsewhere and consider drafting our OLB to align opposite Sheard. That's what makes sense to me.
EDIT: I'd even rather take James Harrison at 35 on a two year deal. Hate the guy, but he'd at least be good for a one year transition. Ed Reed would be a good option too. He could play alongside TJ Ward.
Last edited by PeteyDangerous; 03/09/13 02:02 PM.
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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Milliner ain't gonna be there at 6. I'd bet my IRA on it. IMHO it's delusional fantasy to even think he makes it past JAX, Philly or the Lions.
Harrison may be a POS in your view, (personally I don't like his head hunting,) but he is effective at both the pass rush and in run support, and he'll be affordable. Avril @ $12M? Ridiculous. Kruger will be looking for a big payday too, coming with a SB ring, but he historically has had injury issues. Harrison would, however, give us a couple good years, bring an attitude, and give us time to add another pass rusher next year or the year after via the draft. Having said that, I think Kruger is the most likely candidate along with a rookie at 6 (Jones or Ziggy)
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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This offseason could be historically as bad as that terrible year when Mangini traded the top draft pic with the jets for a bunch of losers; and everything else that went on that year.
You mean the trade where we got 3 starters and Alex Mack? Yeah that was horrible. I mean we could of had the legendary Canton bound Sanchez.
I don't know yet. But I know one thing.
Norv Turner is not a coaching genius, and I'd take Childress....
Really? Childress? 
Look at it this way. Top teams have their qb for 4+ years in the system, on the team, and don't change all the coaches +Gm unless they really deserve it.
I would agree with you that we as fans and ownership/management should show more patience but Shurmer did nothing to show, to a new owner, that he deserves to keep his job.
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I think Rodgers-Cromartie is probably my number one target.
We definitely don't need a big money #1 corner with knee issues. We need a good, solid #2. That would be my second big bet on FA. Sean Smith?
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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I love that we have a fresh batch of people that have never experienced THROW LONG.
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And that still want to argue the merits of the Mangini regime or Colt McCoy as a starting option...
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Sarcasm alert Remember that 3 or 4 week stretch against the Patriots, Saints and Steelers?? Ahh, to only return to those glory weeks of Mangini and McCoy. 
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Ellerbe is priority #2 after Flacco for the Ravens. Which probably means they can't do anything for Kruger, Reed, & Williams.
And Boldin's name can also be thrown into that mix there. Ellerbe is going to a crucial priority for Baltimore. They're definitely in line to make some difficult decisions. Just makes all the more possible for Kruger to turn into an Orange and Brown!
There is an article somewhere on here that says the Ravens are asking Bolden to take a cut in pay.., Kind of testing his comments about retirement.
I get the feeling he's not a priority.
EDIT: Found it
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...avens-ultimatum
And to add-on to that, Boldin has supposedly rejected the pay cut and supposedly will test the open market, Which makes him a fibber in terms of retiring if not a Raven. It would be silly to retire, teams will want him. I mean heck I wouldn't mind him being in a Brown's uniform.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...cut-from-ravens
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How many years have we been watching football? God Please don't let Jimmy Haslem be forced to learn all of these simple lessons of what not to do at our, (the fans) expense.
I only copied this part of Throw Long's post because I hate it when people quote long posts, but man----are you kidding me? Did you write that entire post to prove you understand satire?
I really don't like ripping people for having a different opinion----Lord knows I usually have a different opinion, but man-----you are so far out there, so wrong in almost every thing you said that I just couldn't let it go.
Sheesh!
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I mean heck I wouldn't mind him being in a Brown's uniform.
+1, they should have snagged him up the last time they had the chance to do so.
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Quote:
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How many years have we been watching football? God Please don't let Jimmy Haslem be forced to learn all of these simple lessons of what not to do at our, (the fans) expense.
I only copied this part of Throw Long's post because I hate it when people quote long posts, but man----are you kidding me? Did you write that entire post to prove you understand satire?
I really don't like ripping people for having a different opinion----Lord knows I usually have a different opinion, but man-----you are so far out there, so wrong in almost every thing you said that I just couldn't let it go.
Sheesh!
Thank you, thank you, thank you......
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fyi: read all TL's posts as satire and things will go much smoother
#gmstrong
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I read this yesterday and was extremely excited from it, I really would love for us to be able to sign both guys, it gives us instant depth at the spot as well as a real legit pass rush. Between Sheard, Gocong and then adding Avril and Kruger our pass rush would really potentially be one of the leagues best. You also factor in we could potentially be looking to add a young one at the #6 spot.
We have the cap room, I am all for using some if it to sign some impact players.
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...be-paul-kruger/Browns have talked to agents for Dannell Ellerbe, Paul Kruger Posted by Michael David Smith on March 10, 2013, 7:45 AM EDT The last-place team in the AFC North is going after two of the top defensive players from the first-place team in the AFC North. The Browns have already contacted the agents for Ravens linebackers Dannell Ellerbe and Paul Kruger, the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports. Cleveland appears ready to make formal contract offers to the two Ravens as soon as free agency starts on Tuesday afternoon. Kruger appears to be a strong candidate to end up in Cleveland. The Browns are in hot pursuit, and the Ravens seem to have already resigned themselves to the fact that they don’t have enough salary cap space to keep him. Ellerbe, however, still seems to have a decent chance of staying in Baltimore. Once the Ravens worked out a long-term deal with Joe Flacco, Ellerbe became their top target to keep in free agency. If they want to keep him, they may need to out-bid the Browns.
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Has any mention been made any where that we are looking for OG's?
Also how do I post without a reply?
Here we go again
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns to pursue Ravens Kruger and
Lions Avril
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