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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/13/browns-add-quentin-groves-to-ray-hortons-defense/New Browns defensive coordinator Ray Horton is bringing one of his guys to Cleveland. Free agent linebacker Quentin Groves, who played in Horton’s defense when they were together in Arizona last year, has come to terms with the Browns, ESPN’s Adam Schefter reports. A 2008 second-round pick of the Jaguars, Groves spent two years in Jacksonville and then two years in Oakland but wasn’t a great player in either stop. In Arizona last year, however, Groves had career highs in tackles (46) and sacks (four) while playing in all 16 games and starting seven. Now Groves will attempt to repeat that success, and he’ll give Cleveland a player who already knows the new defense.
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Sounds good, the Defense is looking different and better already ... 
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Not a great player, but we need LBers and maybe Horton saw something in him.
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I didn't look ..... did he play ILB or OLB in Arizona?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Not a great player, but we need LBers and maybe Horton saw something in him.
Does that mean were not building a "Dream Team" ... 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Never mind ..... he played OLB.
Probably a backup/situational guy.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Its nice to see us getting some solid guys.
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Interesting signing, always good when a player knows the system! This regime obviously has a plan & it's fun watching them execute. How sweet would it be if Millner falls to us @ 6? Sit back and enjoy the ride 
If I only knew then what I know today...
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Quote:
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Not a great player, but we need LBers and maybe Horton saw something in him.
Does that mean were not building a "Dream Team" ...
Depth guy w/ a chance to get a little PT.
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I didn't look ..... did he play ILB or OLB in Arizona?
I think it was OLB b/c he replaced O'Brien Schofield when he tore a ligament in his knee
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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Interesting signing, always good when a player knows the system! This regime obviously has a plan & it's fun watching them execute. How sweet would it be if Millner falls to us @ 6? Sit back and enjoy the ride
If Milliner falls to us @ 6.. I'm gonna be so dang on hype for our defense this year..
Milliner @ 6.. then Rambo in the 3rd.. DREAM come true.
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As a 3rd OLB/situational pass rusher he is a good fit and a good move imho but if we intend to start him at WOLB and trade Sheard it would be a bad move
Any word on the money? Shouldn't exceed 2.5-3.5mil/year...if it's more, he's viewed as a starter...
#gmstrong
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He looks like he'd fit in as the rotational guy we were looking for.
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I thought Horton would target him..I like the pickup.
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Groves was a second round pick in 2008 who likely would have been a first round pick, had a heart issue not been detected during the 2008 combine.
This from wiki web page
Heart surgery
While undergoing medical tests at the NFL Combine, Groves was discovered to have Wolff-Parkinson-White syndrome, which results in him having a rapid heartbeat because of electrical impulses in the heart taking extra pathways. Groves told the media "It's an extra circuit in the heart, and it speeds up your heartbeat, it's nothing too critical, but you have to take care of it."
Often this condition can be treated with medication, however, not in all cases. Groves elected to have a surgical procedure called ablation, which is described as "minor". After the procedure Groves sent a letter to all NFL teams informing them that he was able to play, according to his doctors. "Some teams had questions so that's when my agent said to get it fixed," Groves said. "The letter said that the doctors said I was 100% healed, and I'm good."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Browns are Groves' 4th team since 2008...that raises a red flag...something is just not right...it might be that his heart condition is more of an issue than reported.
Jacksonville Jaguars (2008–2009)
Oakland Raiders (2010–2012)
Arizona Cardinals (2012-2013)
Cleveland Browns (2013–present
I hope he was signed with agreement that he would have to compete for a starting job and not as a starter. Groves career high in tackles (37 tackles, 9 assists) ranked him tied at #243 in tackles, for 2012.
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Apart from the players, I like the "inside-out" approach and targeting low supply positions on the market first
I'll happily say that I'm impressed so far with how they're going at things...pretty much avoided the guys I didn't want (Cook, A.Smith, Wallace, Avril, the 2 top Gs) and got 2 guys that were high on my wishlist
Groves I had no real opinion on, he's a very talented guy that has underachieved and disappointed in his first 4 seasons, probably because he was drafted as a miscast 4-3 DE by JAX...we will see, hope the money isn't crazy...everything north of 3.5mil/year would be too rich for me
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I'll add that I wanted V.Butler slightly over Groves for the 3rd OLB spot....will be interesting to see what both those guys will get, as I think it should be close based on age/talent/production....guess we got Groves because Horton wanted him, for good or bad, we will see
#gmstrong
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I hope he was signed with agreement that he would have to compete for a starting job and not as a starter.
I hope every player we sign, draft, or bring back from last year has that same understanding.
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It makes the draft easier. They are always backed into a corner because they have to draft for need ..now if they continue to fill the bigger holes now,it opens the draft to do some things.
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I have to admit that I like our signings so far though if you look at who we signed, it is a little hard to understand considering we were 10th in total defense and 25th in total offense last year...
I know switching to the 3-4 requires some adjustments and I'm glad we aren't waiting 3 or 4 years to draft all of our 3-4 guys... but is anybody else beginning to wonder if we aren't setting our draft up to go offense, offense, offense? Though we do still need secondary help..
yebat' Putin
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It's early. Maybe we will get a couple of offensive players, but yeah, I was thinking the same thing. I was even thinking [shudder] that we might draft Gino Smith at #6. I hope not, but ....
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Quote:
It makes the draft easier. They are always backed into a corner because they have to draft for need ..now if they continue to fill the bigger holes now,it opens the draft to do some things.
woah woah.... they didn't "need" to change to a 3-4. They created their own mess and put themselves into a corner.
had they stayed the same we would only really need a CB/FS possibly a LB/DE or two for depth.
this year we needed 2-3 LB's (already signed 2) we signed another non need-DL
we still need
a CB
a FS
and depth
almost all of that money could have gone to the other side of the ball and we could be walking around with a new WR/G/FB/ and maybe even a FS.
we would still have enough left to sign a CB and our team would only need a QB to produce/depth.
now... it is what it is and we will see where we end up. I hope we win the Super Bowl but I won't hold my breath.
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woah woah.... they didn't "need" to change to a 3-4. They created their own mess and put themselves into a corner.
So you were happy w/the record of the last two years?
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I don't have a issue with the34 .I said years ago when Rac was here it was my favorite scheme as long as it was a attack style and not a read-n-react.
When they brought Horton in it was going to change. The HC likes the 34, and thats what they went to.
However they're filling the biggest holes now which is the smart thing to do. It won't take this D long to get going.
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I have to admit that I like our signings so far though if you look at who we signed, it is a little hard to understand considering we were 10th in total defense and 25th in total offense last year...
I know switching to the 3-4 requires some adjustments and I'm glad we aren't waiting 3 or 4 years to draft all of our 3-4 guys... but is anybody else beginning to wonder if we aren't setting our draft up to go offense, offense, offense? Though we do still need secondary help..
I don't think that's the case. I just think that they see a lot more potential/ potential depth on O, and we are a lot younger on O, and we've only been able to sign players for like 16 hours so far. I think some players will be added on O, but depth was definitely something we needed last year on D as well.
Wise words spoken by sages
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Not a great player, but we need LBers and maybe Horton saw something in him.
A "Mangini-esque" move bringing in a player who knows, and alllows you to play, your system. Makes sense...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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woah woah.... they didn't "need" to change to a 3-4. They created their own mess and put themselves into a corner.
So you were happy w/the record of the last two years?
that has 0 relevance to the equation as to why we lost.
We still had huge holes that needed to be filled on the D. (we still have them today even after signing 3 players and switching to a 3-4)
I mean... how many times are we going to keep going 4-3 to 3-4 to 4-3 to 3-4 in a decade
swapping to a different D just buys time to install their D and time to keep the fans/media off their back.
Switching D"s eliminates the type of player that was already here and you have to clean out the young talent. that is another great reason why we can never develop players in CLE.
If you can only see your nose when there is a Picasso painting in front of your face... I can't help you with that.
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woah woah.... they didn't "need" to change to a 3-4. They created their own mess and put themselves into a corner.
While I agree with you in theory, it's not like we had a dominant top 5 defense that was winning games for us. We had a decent defense statistically that still couldn't seem to get stops when it needed them.
So you don't go get a new coach/DC to fit your scheme, you go get one that plays the way you want to play then you get him what he needs to do that. I know we have probably lost site of that because we change coaches every 2-3 years but hiring a coach/DC is supposed to be a long term arrangement so switching to the 3-4 shouldn't be that big of a deal.
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Quote:
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Not a great player, but we need LBers and maybe Horton saw something in him.
A "Mangini-esque" move bringing in a player who knows, and alllows you to play, your system. Makes sense...
In fairness, tons of coaches do this.
Tackles are tackles.
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Quentin Groves: #24 pass rusher available. Had 4 sacks in 2012. Started in 7 of 16 games for Arizona. It's clear what the Browns are doing. Look for it to continue in the draft. I like what they have done so far in FA.
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Quote:
Quote:
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Not a great player, but we need LBers and maybe Horton saw something in him.
A "Mangini-esque" move bringing in a player who knows, and alllows you to play, your system. Makes sense...
In fairness, tons of coaches do this.
He didn't say it was a bad thing...
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we change coaches every 2-3 years but hiring a coach/DC is supposed to be a long term arrangement
Off topic I know, but does anybody really believe Horton will stay here (as DC) longer than a year or two? He is borderline HC material...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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we change coaches every 2-3 years but hiring a coach/DC is supposed to be a long term arrangement
Off topic I know, but does anybody really believe Horton will stay here (as DC) longer than a year or two? He is borderline HC material...
HE thinks he's HC'ing material. I highly doubt he gets a HC'ing job anytime soon though. Don't want to ruffle any feathers but we all know why he gets HC'ing interviews....
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I think if he does well here he will get a HC job within 3 years.
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woah woah.... they didn't "need" to change to a 3-4. They created their own mess and put themselves into a corner.
While I agree with you in theory, it's not like we had a dominant top 5 defense that was winning games for us. We had a decent defense statistically that still couldn't seem to get stops when it needed them.
So you don't go get a new coach/DC to fit your scheme, you go get one that plays the way you want to play then you get him what he needs to do that. I know we have probably lost site of that because we change coaches every 2-3 years but hiring a coach/DC is supposed to be a long term arrangement so switching to the 3-4 shouldn't be that big of a deal.
so... lets say you want to build a house in the woods.
you decide to build a log cabin home-
The house gets 75% of the way you want it built, you spend years teaching your crew how to properly build it, the crew learns how to master the crafts of building the house and start to become efficent, in fact they start growing trees in the woods (late round draft picks/UFA's) that are exactly what you will need to replace logs as they wear out and need replacing in the home. The only major thing left you have to do is put the roof on over the house to provide coverage.
All of a sudden, your bank sells your loan and now the new bank is not happy that the roof hasn't been put up yet but is on schedule to be fully functioning 2 years from now (as expected). The new bank had different ideas and they are not happy so they issues new terms that are completely different..
Now... the new bank comes along and says they don't care what you want and they are going to kick you out of your home before you install a roof. They fire your crew, bring in a new crew and different home builder.
The new home builder sees the logs on the outside and says... I don't like those logs. I like brick homes better. He heads to the bank and convinces the bank to get bricks and replace the outside walls.
After months, He gets a whole new staff in place that will have to learn how to use mortar, how to replace the outside log walls that were already up in the old log cabin. They also have to go to the woods and cut down the tree crops and replace the trees with pallets of clay, water, and a furnace to be molded into bricks.
after they get all that setup... they still have to go back and put a roof on the house.
Makes perfect sense to me. 
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j/c
The deal is for two years at a total of $2.8 million, according to Cleveland Plain Dealer reporter Mary Kay Cabot.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000150300/article/report-cleveland-browns-sign-quentin-groves
Not too shabby money-wise for a guy Horton wants to help install the defense.
Wow, that's a GREAT deal considering that Groves was a former 1st round talent who was on a "prove-it" 1year deal and had a solid (for him even "career" season as a pass rusher) season....that's really peanuts and makes this officially another good value signing for me
We don't have the exact structures of the contracts yet but looks like we've spent 16-18mil of our cap, let's say 20mil if we front loaded a bit....if we had 48mil, let's safe 10 for our own guy's extensions + a generous 8mil for the draft and we still have somewhere between 10-15mil to shop with....+ we can safe another 8mil I think by cutting Usama, Colt and Gocong...I would give Gocong another shot, but would ask him to take a massive pay cut and maybe make it incentive-laden, so that he can earn most of it back if he plays and performs
We can easily add 2 more high quality starters....Heckert did one heck (yeah, I know  ) of job cleaning up this roster and this new regime so far is doing as good a job investing that cap space, I think that's a fair assessment
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Wow, that's a GREAT deal considering that Groves was a former 1st round talent who was on a "prove-it" 1year deal and had a solid (for him even "career" season as a pass rusher) season....that's really peanuts and makes this officially another good value signing for me
We don't have the exact structures of the contracts yet but looks like we've spent 16-18mil of our cap, let's say 20mil if we front loaded a bit....if we had 48mil, let's safe 10 for our own guy's extensions + a generous 8mil for the draft and we still have somewhere between 10-15mil to shop with....+ we can safe another 8mil I think by cutting Usama, Colt and Gocong...I would give Gocong another shot, but would ask him to take a massive pay cut and maybe make it incentive-laden, so that he can earn most of it back if he plays and performs
We can easily add 2 more high quality starters....Heckert did one heck (yeah, I know ) of job cleaning up this roster and this new regime so far is doing as good a job investing that cap space, I think that's a fair assessment
Stop with the positive talk already. Your starting to scare me.
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Wow, that's an elaborate analogy but I believe you are really overstating the problem.. to modify your analogy to I would say it more like this.. (and in my analogy, the outside of the house is the defense and the inside of the house is the offense)... You are building a house and the stud walls are up, the roof joists and sheathing are on and the siding is going on.. the outside of the house doesn't look to bad but the inside of the house looks absolutely awful.. well it's all being done by the same contractor so you can't just fire the inside guy.. so you fire the contractor and hire a new one. The new contractor has a much better resume and team for doing the interior but he also needs to hire a new exterior guy. The exterior guy prefers brick to siding so he has to remove some siding, change out some of the moldings to ones that work with brick and away you go. Because the studs (Rubin, Taylor, DQ, Haden, Ward) they work just fine whether it's siding or brick.. and we added 3 nice pallets of brick yesterday and we have a superintendent in Horton who already knows how to put it together. Needless to say, I think you are overstating the whole "Tear it down to the foundation, cut down the trees, and start over" nature of what we are doing... The better analogy might even be.. you are building a house, a guy comes along and pays you a billion dollars for the land and what you have in place.. because it's his money he tears it down and builds what he wants... as his neighbor, all you can really do is watch and hope it turns out nice because you have to look at it for years...... 
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mind = blown
amazing analogy DC
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