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Even better for Sheard and the other free agents we signed (OLB's Esp. Kruger) who played DEand can do both I am sure Groves is a solid pickup as well
Muliple schemes I love it!!!!
Due to Denver's mess up with Duverville's contract we have a golden oppertunity to add another beast if we can snatch this guy,suddenly we have a dangeous LB group could use another inside backer but yeah.
Make it happen Banner frees up the first pick to address other needs
Go Browns yeah, it's getting really exciting guys.

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In the state capital of SC.

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I'll be damned,I had no idea you were so close by.My travels take me there quite often.Was just up to Tailgaters last weekend,pretty good wings.Maybe we can have a beer sometime,talk some football.


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not sure why people think that sheard cannot play as a 3-4 OLB. take a look at the clip below:

nfl.com - sheard sack

will he be able to cover a TE or RB 15 yards down field? nope!

but that's why it's a ZONE blitz and not a man-to-man scheme. 90% of his snaps will be rushing the passer/playing the run. the other 10% will be surprise drops into coverage.

cannot wait to see sheard and kruger on the edges! and then add bryant, taylor, rubin and winn collapsing the middle??? LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GO BROWNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Vers...probably most with that notion is from Horton's original remarks when all were asking him about the hybrid 4-3...n he said he was going to run a 3-4 n only a 3-4 which had a lot of dawgs go cause Chud had just been touting a 3-4 but playing also a hybrid 4-3. After a meeting of the minds the quotes noted above by ddubbia with Horton was after he demanded he was only going to run a 3-4 with multiple blitz packages similar to the Steelers.

What's coming...I don't know. I got a feeling though it will be done mostly with the LBs...what makes Kruger so attractive cause he has size to move around on the DL tier if need be even if he remain in 2 point stance...Why I think an Ansah would be perfect for this D as well. Even a Dumerville n Sheard - LBs who have spent time on the DL.

We can only imagine what will happen but when Horton first was signed as our coach he was adamant that he was running just a 3-4 as our D. Then came that statement after he n Chud seemed to have stated different things. So we might see more different fronts as in looks but I think the vast majority of it will be done with the LBs moving up to the DL n we will utilize only 3 DL as we know them...possibly only 2 - except of course obvious running downs.

JMHO but it could be a case of all you dawgs being correct


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Quote:

not sure why people think that sheard cannot play as a 3-4 OLB. take a look at the clip below:

nfl.com - sheard sack




That clip is obviously doctored, everyone knows Sheard can't rush the passer from a standing position.

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Quote:

Quote:

not sure why people think that sheard cannot play as a 3-4 OLB. take a look at the clip below:

nfl.com - sheard sack




That clip is obviously doctored, everyone knows Sheard can't rush the passer from a standing position.




Yep, that could never happen.


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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

not sure why people think that sheard cannot play as a 3-4 OLB. take a look at the clip below:

nfl.com - sheard sack




That clip is obviously doctored, everyone knows Sheard can't rush the passer from a standing position.




Yep, that could never happen.




+1


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JK - haven't read the thread so if already addressed just tell me and I will go back and look through it.

A new thought (to me) crossed my mind and curious as to what you guys think. Honestly I don't have any idea if this would work or not. How would Sheard look at inside Lb in the 3-4?


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......nothing has worked out for this franchise.

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I don't think so, Jester. I think Horton's Inside linebackers have more responsibilities in regards to pass coverage than the outside linebackers. I think he will be an OLB next year and be asked to rush the passer and set the edge in the running game.

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I don't think so, Jester. I think Horton's Inside linebackers have more responsibilities in regards to pass coverage than the outside linebackers. I think he will be an OLB next year and be asked to rush the passer and set the edge in the running game.




Which makes perfect sense if he can make the switch to the 3-4. And I believe if anybody on this current roster can make that switch, it would be Sheard.

In his rookie season he proved his pass rush abilities leading this team in sacks. But opposing d's caught on and with no real pass rushing threat on the other side, Sheard was minimized somewhat by the opposing D's keying on him.

With Kruger on the other side "hopefully" he will be enough of a threat so that teams really can't key on both of them. That should help open up the door for Sheard to be a powerhouse at rushing the passer from the edge.


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I don't think so, Jester. I think Horton's Inside linebackers have more responsibilities in regards to pass coverage than the outside linebackers. I think he will be an OLB next year and be asked to rush the passer and set the edge in the running game.




He wasn't exactly studding out in either category last year. Now he is changing positions. I am seriously concerned.

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He wasn't exactly studding out in either category last year. Now he is changing positions. I am seriously concerned.




Question..... after Sheard doing great at rushing the QB and leading the team in sacks his rookie year, who else did our opponents have to concentrate on in rushing situations other than Sheard?

Nobody.

If kruger pans out to be yet another as a quality rusher, this will help sheard a great deal. When you're the only real threat to get to the QB, it's not that hard to stop just one guy.

But yes, there's always questions when you switch a guy to a new position and a new scheme.


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Thanks. Just a wild hair thought I had. I could envision him stuffing the run and blitzing as an ILb in the 3-4. I forgot about pass coverage responsibilities.

Not sure how he will convert as an OLB. I see him as more of a straight line kind of guy. Not sure that he has the lateral movements to be a 3-4 OLb. I do hope he becomes a pass rushing terror off the edge.


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The only question with Sheard at OLB is whether or not he can drop into coverage.

If he can, he will be awesome and I think that's exactly what the organization is counting on. They would be looking to trade him otherwise.

Either way, we're good. He's a proven commodity at the moment and has a high value on the market - cheap and good. We'll get at least a 2 (and then some) if he we're traded. And if they determine that he can make the change, he'll be the guy Kruger needs to flourish like he for the Rats.

I'd love for him to work out here. And something tells me, they have a pretty good idea that he will.

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Jester: It's good to think outside the box and consider all the possibilities.

red: Once again, I do not think that we are going to be using our OLBs in coverage that much. Does Woodley play in coverage? How often did James Harrison drop into coverage? Did Baltimore use Suggs in coverage much?

On the other hand, guys like Timmons, Farrior, Ray, and Ellerbie did drop into coverage a lot.

I think that Kruger and Sheard will drop into the flat occasionally. I think it will part of zone coverage. I do not think you will see them chasing TEs or RBs down the field. I also think that their main job is to get upfield and disrupt the offense.

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Didn't James Harrison return an INT for a TD in the super bowl?

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jc

Sheard may be a situational OLB. Meaning long third downs and most passing downs, that is when I think we'll see Jaball getting his snaps now. If he proves me wrong, then I think that's awesome. I'll have zero issues admitting I was wrong because I think Jaball has great passing rushing ability, and he is decent to good against the run. I just am doubting his coverage skill which throws him out of an all-down LB.

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Quote:

jc

Sheard may be a situational OLB. Meaning long third downs and most passing downs, that is when I think we'll see Jaball getting his snaps now. If he proves me wrong, then I think that's awesome. I'll have zero issues admitting I was wrong because I think Jaball has great passing rushing ability, and he is decent to good against the run. I just am doubting his coverage skill which throws him out of an all-down LB.




This is one of the major reasons I wasn't a fan of us switching from a 4-3 to 3-4. Sheard was one of highlights on this D the past 2 years. He led the team in sacks 2 seasons in a row with a total of 15.5, Switching to a 3-4 he basically just disappeared into the sunset with a 4.7 40. His contract has 2 more years on it and will make less than a million this year (he signed 4 years for 5.09 million). He will be replaced by Kruger and his 5 year 41 million dollar expense. IMO that's a waste of millions tied up on the D with one player that will equal in impact what we had on the roster.


and there is this...
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/01/cleveland_browns_jabaal_sheard.html
Jabaal Sheard doesn't favor the 3-4 defense, but he's prepared to change

at the end of the day... it's water under the bridge because we can't change it and I have no problem saying i'm not a fan.

I could see us trading him to Denver given their issue with their contract.


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also keep in mind Sheard is 23 Kruger is 27

They have the same amount of career sacks (15.5) Sheard has 41 more tackles110 vs Kruger's 69

IMO this is just a huge waste of money


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I don't see why Kruger has to "replace" Sheard.

Why can't Sheard play weak side, while Kruger plays strong side?

People are writing Sheard off before he even takes a single snap in a single practice. I don't get it. College Defensive Ends make the jump to OLB all the time in Pittsburgh. They do it seamlessly, and effectively. Guys switch to 3-4 OLB from 4-3 DE all the time. Why is this somehow going to be an impossibility for Sheard?

We also have a Defensive Coordinator who is supposed to be very strong in putting players in position to be successful. If Sheard has pass rushing ability, why do people assume that Horton won't be able to put that talent to use in the 3-4?

I think that Sheard is going to be just fine at OLB. I predict a 10 sack season for him, as long as he stays healthy.


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I don't see why Kruger has to "replace" Sheard.

Why can't Sheard play weak side, while Kruger plays strong side?

People are writing Sheard off before he even takes a single snap in a single practice. I don't get it. College Defensive Ends make the jump to OLB all the time in Pittsburgh. They do it seamlessly, and effectively. Guys switch to 3-4 OLB from 4-3 DE all the time. Why is this somehow going to be an impossibility for Sheard?

We also have a Defensive Coordinator who is supposed to be very strong in putting players in position to be successful. If Sheard has pass rushing ability, why do people assume that Horton won't be able to put that talent to use in the 3-4?

I think that Sheard is going to be just fine at OLB. I predict a 10 sack season for him, as long as he stays healthy.





paying 1 mill a year for sheard and 7 for Kruger and they have the same stats
I don't think that we can afford to have 2 slow OLB's on the field at the same time. Kruger runs a 5 sec 40.

I never said it was impossible. He basically said he didn't want to do it.

I'll take you up on a 10 sack season bet. I'll even keep it in my sig all season


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j/c? proper thing on the board?

the guy was nothing more than a sit pass rusher in the 4/3. this might help him out.

I misspoke. it all he sould have been

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j/c mean just clicking

except he had 110 tackles in 2 seasons


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The 3-4 doesn't have super fast OLB like the 4-3.

The 3-4 tends to have larger OLB, and they are slightly slower as a result. Sheard would be fine as far as quickness in the 3-4 goes.


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The 3-4 doesn't have super fast OLB like the 4-3.

The 3-4 tends to have larger OLB, and they are slightly slower as a result. Sheard would be fine as far as quickness in the 3-4 goes.




So you're telling me we wouldn't even take Von Miller, b/c he's too fast for a 3-4? No offense, but regardless of scheme you want fast, athletic outside linebackers that can swarm the quarterback, and have the ability to kick out in coverage and match TE's, RB's coming outta the backfield and etc. Oh wait, Victor Butler has 4.8 speed, why in the world would the front office be interested in him with that kind of speed?

Inside backs tend to be a little larger in the 3-4. but that' for obvious run-gap reasons, it's a huge reason why people are so skeptical of DQ and likely the big reason Maiva was released and not even wanted for depth.

All JMO.

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No, what I am saying is that you can have a really exceptional 3-4 defense without having track stars at OLB.

We had quickness at OLB last year in Robertson. He wont even be considered at OLB this year. He might be an ILB. A smaller, lighter player just does not fit this defense at OLB.

In this defense, the OLB has to balance size and speed appropriately. He may line up as a pseudo defensive end, and much be big enough to take on that role. He has to be quick, but raw speed is not the most important trait he can possess.


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No, what I am saying is that you can have a really exceptional 3-4 defense without having track stars at OLB.

We had quickness at OLB last year in Robertson. He wont even be considered at OLB this year. He might be an ILB. A smaller, lighter player just does not fit this defense at OLB.

In this defense, the OLB has to balance size and speed appropriately. He may line up as a pseudo defensive end, and much be big enough to take on that role. He has to be quick, but raw speed is not the most important trait he can possess.





so... you're not going to take me up on that 10 sack season bet, that you bet?


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No, what I am saying is that you can have a really exceptional 3-4 defense without having track stars at OLB.




Ahh no doubt, I just misinterpreted your original post. People like Demarcus Ware are freaks. A weird combo of size and speed, and i'd love to clone him twice and have them on our team LOL!

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For those who think Sheard is slow... I think he ran a 4.6 40 at the combine. Not that that makes him able to cover TE's and RB's, but he certainly isn't slow. He will likely be used to rush the passer from around the line on passing downs... I don't think we're going to see him playing 5 yards off the line on first downs. Hopefully he proves us wrong and ends up being an every down player.

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I don't bet on things that I can't directly control, but I do believe that Sheard will have a 10 sack season.

If I am wrong, you can feel free to taunt me relentlessly, and rub it in my face if you wish.


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Im still curious as to if we will sign Victor Butler from the Cowboys...if we do...then i see sheard being traded.

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Im still curious as to if we will sign Victor Butler from the Cowboys...if we do...then i see sheard being traded.




Makes you wonder. In any case, Victor is visiting today. Maybe/hopefully, he'll leave a Browns today. He is a solid OLB and also a nice pass rush threat. the pair of Kruger and him would be quite nice.

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Victor Butler played all 16 games last year as a backup.

He had 25 tackles and 3 sacks. Both were career highs in his 4 year career.

Why would we dump Sheard before we even see if he can transition to OLB? That would be idiotic, and would make zero sense to me. Butler has been a backup at OLB. I'm sure that he would have an opportunity to challenge for the starting role .... but that doesn't mean that we just dump Sheard because we signed someone else's backup. If Sheard wins the OLB job, then great. If someone else comes in and beats him out, then that's fine too. However, to decide that we're going to trade someone before we even see if he can make a transition that many before him have made, is ridiculous.


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I could see them signing butler as an insurance policy.

No matter what this FO spoon fed the media and fan base, nobody knows how players will transition from the 4-3 to the 3-4.

Sure, their skill set and numbers may insinuate they will transfer, but that doesn't tell the story. That's why the top rated OLB's that people feel are pretty sure bets in the 3-4 are drafted so high and even then do not always make the transfer well.

I'm hoping Sheard does transfer well for a couple of reasons. I really like him and consider him one of our top, young D players.

Secondly, if, with all of his talent, he doesn't transfer to the 3-4 well, it doesn't bode well for our other D players.

But the jury is out on all of them and that's just the way it is. We can all hope for the best which I'm sure we all do, but doing this..... ...... couldn't hurt at this point.


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Quote:

I could see them signing butler as an insurance policy.





That sounds like something a very smart person would say.

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Quote:

Quote:

I could see them signing butler as an insurance policy.





That sounds like something a very smart person would say.




Let me guess? You said it before I did?

J/K



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Exactly. Besides, a team can never have too many good players. Suppose that one of our OLB goes down with an injury. Would we rather have a guy with experience, like a Butler and/or Groves, ready to come into the game ...... or some 7th round pick that no one has ever heard of, and who barely made the roster, and only did so because we had no one better? I know what situation I would prefer and choose.

As far as Sheard, there really is no guarantee ...... but teams have players make this same transition all the time. The Steelers are really good at taking defensive ends and making them into OLB. Where did Horton "grow up"? Pittsburgh. He was a DB coach there ..... but he had to see how the team developed players at other positions. He had to have absorbed some of the system. he worked with young players like Acho, Schofield, and Washington in Arizona.

Acho was a college DL. So was Schofield. They made the transition from college DL to NFL OLB. Why can't a guy like Sheard?


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The only real difference I see there Y-Town is the Steelers got to "pick and choose" who they brought in to make the transfer from the 4-3 to the 3-4. Here, on our team?

They inherit who was already here. I think the odds would be better if you had the opportunity to select who you chose to develop and not just have them thrown in your lap. So I do see quite a difference there.


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