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You're not the only skeptic around here,but at some point you have to be honest,these aren't bad moves.
Not bad moves. IMO they still need to sign Sheldon to a short term deal.
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[color:white] [/color] [color:blue] [/color]
I do not understand why grown men would read the CRAP put out by analyst! This is just like when Lombardi stated Ryan Mallet was the best quarterback in his draft class! How much playing time has he seen?
New England was way ahead many times and he rarely saw the field.
So my advise is to sit back and PRAY that we do address our pass defender needs.
How about a reunion of former OSU defensive backs? What do say to that EO? :D :D :willynilly:
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.those guys seldom to never make it to FA.
Due to an unexpected SNAFU...Dumerville is one who just got to this FA market...some teams have spent their big allotment. I think we got room. Its a rare set of circumstances as you were wise to put it out there....Peppers n Mario were very rare FA opportunities. Dumerville was a big mistake.
I know some would view this as CRAZY me I see us having an opportunity to go AWESOME especially in playoffs against a Pass strong team which usually is the teams who will make the playoffs.
2-5 on passing downs. Bryant & Taylor/Winn on the DL
Ansah/Jones (#6 pick), Dumerville, Sheard, Groves n Kruger as the 5...Attack with all in a varied amount of movement...Zone blitz Ward dropping somebody?Winn? Just a Pass Rush mayhem never seen in the NFL before  Its the only way to beat these Brady, Manning, RG3, Ryan, Dalton, Luck TEAMS...dropping 8 n rushing 3 they will eat us up alive. Hit them Hard n Often - n we would be the out right BEST.
We have that opportunity at our finger tips...  Man I love IT!!!
Jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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We could absolutely afford Dumervil from a cap perspective. I think that I figured that we have somewhere around $30-$35 million in cap space left after our free agent purchases so far. Last year we were allocated under $10 million for rookie contracts, and that was with a pair of 1st round picks, plus extras throughout the draft. I would guess that we'll probably have a rookie pool allocation of around $5-$6 million this year.
If we were to sign Dumervil, it would immediately change our plans at 6. I could definitely see us aggressively trying to trade down ...... or for us to take a flyer on a QB at that spot. If Milliner were available, I could see us taking him to really finish off the defense in style.
What a nice decision the addition of Dumervil would create.
I like where the defense is heading .... and Dumervil would be a huge addition. Imagine passing downs with Kruger sliding down to DE on a 4-3 type alignment, with Sheard coming in to rush from the OLB position ......
Man, If I could have one semi-realistic football wish ... this would be it.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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We could absolutely afford Dumervil from a cap perspective. I think that I figured that we have somewhere around $30-$35 million in cap space left after our free agent purchases so far. Last year we were allocated under $10 million for rookie contracts, and that was with a pair of 1st round picks, plus extras throughout the draft. I would guess that we'll probably have a rookie pool allocation of around $5-$6 million this year.
If we were to sign Dumervil, it would immediately change our plans at 6. I could definitely see us aggressively trying to trade down ...... or for us to take a flyer on a QB at that spot. If Milliner were available, I could see us taking him to really finish off the defense in style.
What a nice decision the addition of Dumervil would create.
I like where the defense is heading .... and Dumervil would be a huge addition. Imagine passing downs with Kruger sliding down to DE on a 4-3 type alignment, with Sheard coming in to rush from the OLB position ......
Man, If I could have one semi-realistic football wish ... this would be it.
EO I absolutely love that idea...perhaps this is why our Browns have been so quiet lately....avoiding spending our cash extra cash while maybe in gear to land one major talent in Dumervil...that will make the front 7 scary...and like you said it'll breed multiple fronts and looks
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We signed a strong side 34OLB and a 34 DE.
These roles were played by Sheard and Taylor in our 43
Held, I love ya man, but this doesn't make any sense. Taylor was a DT, not a DE.
I don't think we created holes on the DL. I think we brought in two very good pass rushers to pressure the qb. Kruger has great upside and Bryant is also stout against the run.
I will say it was funny to see how long it took Spirit to jump on your comments. "Exactly..." 
Yes, agreeing with someone is hilarious. Heaven forbid anyone doubts a move this front office makes. You think we brought in two very good pass rushers? Well, Kruger is solid, though he's not that elite 15+ sack type of player. I did think that signing was a good start. Bryant had four sacks last season. That was his BEST year. Considering we just payed him 7 million a season that better double next year.... Not exactly a stud pass rusher so far in his career though.... and considering Skrine is at present our starting corner, it might have been wise targeting a corner.
We didn't HAVE to change to a 3-4. That was a choice Banner and company made. They wanted to play a 3-4 and decided on the change. That choice created holes. Holes they are now attempting to fill. It also made some of our current players obsolete, whether they admit it or not.... Now, perhaps this will work out and perhaps it won't. Doesn't change the fact that he was correct, so I agreed with him.
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
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Well, Kruger is solid, though he's not that elite 15+ sack type of player.
How many of those guys are there in the NFL?
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Bryant had four sacks last season. That was his BEST year. Considering we just payed him 7 million a season that better double next year.... Not exactly a stud pass rusher so far in his career though....
For a 3-4 DE, 4-7 sacks is a pretty damn good season. Bryant played inside at DT last year. He also is a good player against the run.
Last year, Geno Atkins had 12.5 sacks as a DT. Next was Suh with 8. The next most sack proficient DT was Dwan Edwards with 6, along with Melton. Other name DT like Cox, Darius, and Fairley had 5.5 sacks. Kyle Williams and Gerald McCot has 5 sacks. Mike Neal and Randy Starks had 4.5 sacks, Then came Bryant with 4.
DT in the 4-3 usually don't get tons of sacks. They clog up the middle, but they are not the primary rushers. Bryant had 12th most sacks among DT last year. That's respectable. He had only 2 fewer sacks than the 3rd most proficient DT in sacks.
The new coach decided that he prefers the 3-4 defense, and so that's the way it's going to be. It's the same with any new coach. He brings in his own preferred systems. We added 2 players at the top of our free agency "class" this year who should fit the new defense like a glove. I see no reason to be upset. We were a so-so 4-3 defense. Maybe we can be a great 3-4 this year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Heaven forbid anyone doubts a move this front office makes
There are a few of us doubters out there, Spirit. However, to date, the moves made by the FO have been seemingly solid. As the train has not yet left the station, I still have time to either jump on board....or not. Has there been a Lombardi sighting?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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So far so good ... 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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We didn't HAVE to change to a 3-4. That was a choice Banner and company made. They wanted to play a 3-4 and decided on the change. That choice created holes. Holes they are now attempting to fill. It also made some of our current players obsolete, whether they admit it or not.... Now, perhaps this will work out and perhaps it won't. Doesn't change the fact that he was correct, so I agreed with him.
I agree. Switching to the 3-4 really made no sense, and they still need a CB2
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We didn't HAVE to change to a 3-4. That was a choice Banner and company made. They wanted to play a 3-4 and decided on the change. That choice created holes. Holes they are now attempting to fill. It also made some of our current players obsolete, whether they admit it or not.... Now, perhaps this will work out and perhaps it won't. Doesn't change the fact that he was correct, so I agreed with him.
I agree. Switching to the 3-4 really made no sense, and they still need a CB2
I think it was mostly a choice by the HC. What you guys are saying is you would have wanted to have kept Homie, Shurmer and Juaron.
OK, cool.....I rejet that idea, as did the new owner. The old owner did as well. It's why he decided to divest in a NFL team. He didn't want to fool with it any longer.
Lerner is a rich guy who didn't want to fool with the NFL anymore. I get it. If it seems like a job and you don't need one, why fool with it?
There are a lot of really, really rich folks who like working in their yard and cutting their own grass. Good for them. It's what they enjoy.
For others, they hate it and consider it work. They have the money, would rather not do it on a weekly basis, so decide to spread the wealth and pay someone to do it for them.
It's the way it works.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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...wanted to have kept Homie, Shurmer and Juaron.
I was fine with the old regime...with the exception of Shurmur. I particularly was a big fan of Jauron...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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...wanted to have kept Homie, Shurmer and Juaron.
I was fine with the old regime...with the exception of Shurmur. I particularly was a big fan of Jauron...
I like all of them...but, we didn't get it done.
As Banner pointed out and some of us saw last year, the D looked good at times, but we couldn't get off the field when we needed to get off the field.
When you have a legit shot of closing the door and getting off the field, you need to do it. Blow that chace, it ends up like it did last year....allowing a score of some sort.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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What you guys are saying is you would have wanted to have kept Homie, Shurmer and Juaron.
Not at all, I didn't want them here from the getgo. I have nothing against Horton, he's versatile and can run either D. I guess I'm a bit edgy because we've seen no upgrades at CB, but I'm seeing they are working on addressing it now.
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Signing free agents has been allowed for less than a week. Did you think we would be done by now?
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Yes, agreeing with someone is hilarious. Heaven forbid anyone doubts a move this front office makes. You think we brought in two very good pass rushers? Well, Kruger is solid, though he's not that elite 15+ sack type of player. I did think that signing was a good start. Bryant had four sacks last season. That was his BEST year. Considering we just payed him 7 million a season that better double next year.... Not exactly a stud pass rusher so far in his career though.... and considering Skrine is at present our starting corner, it might have been wise targeting a corner.
You only agreed w/him because he criticized the FO. Do you think you are fooling anyone? You are so, so obvious!
Kruger was the main guy I wanted. He is relentless and disruptive. He is getting better.
You ought to check your facts about Bryant. There is more to rushing the passer than sacks. Check his pressures. Check how quick he gets off the line. And he plays the run. Is that a bad thing in your little world?
I don't always defend the new regime. Heck, it's been me who has drawn attention to the secondary. I have replied to you numerous times about it. Let me guess-----Heckert and Holmgren would have already fixed all of these positions in FA?
Btw-------Banner decided to switch to a 3-4?  Prove it! You talk out of the wrong end, Spirit!
You are crying and crying about switching to a 3-4, yet you never said a word when we switched from a 3-4 to a 4-3. Wonder why that is? 
Bet you are hating this place. There is less agenda and more football talk. The horror.......
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Dover, we needed a corner and FS no matter what D we were going to run. Do you REALLY think Heckert would have solved these problems in FA?
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Signing free agents has been allowed for less than a week. Did you think we would be done by now?
No, but we are seeing the top players at the position (that would not break the bank) become unavailable.
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Dover, we needed a corner and FS no matter what D we were going to run. Do you REALLY think Heckert would have solved these problems in FA?
yep. so many seem to be forgetting this
4-3 needs FS, CB, DE, OLB, DL depth
3-4 needs FS, CB, DE, OLB, ILB LB depth
so it added one more position need, and what have we addressed... DE, LB depth, OLB...geez did we all expect every poisition to be filled already or that every FA we tlak to is coming here ?
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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I think it's hard to criticize when we don't know the situation. We could be trying and guys just go elsewhere. If you are signing a one year contract to reestablish your value are you signing with Cleveland or Denver? Or New England?
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Dover, we needed a corner and FS no matter what D we were going to run. Do you REALLY think Heckert would have solved these problems in FA?
It's just a matter of opinion Vers, and mine is/has been they need to sign a vet corner via FA no matter who the GM is.
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j/c...didnt really want to read all replies but wth is the latest on Phil??
"Its too much of a coincidence to be a coincidence"
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He is still old and a kicker.
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j/c...didnt really want to read all replies but wth is the latest on Phil??
no movement, no meetings, no rumors either with us or any other team... very odd. I would have thought the 49ers would be all over him.
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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What you guys are saying is you would have wanted to have kept Homie, Shurmer and Juaron.
Not at all, I didn't want them here from the getgo. I have nothing against Horton, he's versatile and can run either D. I guess I'm a bit edgy because we've seen no upgrades at CB, but I'm seeing they are working on addressing it now.
Your previous words didn't tell me that before.
I am a bit edgy on the defensive backfield myself. I would at minimum like to gain at least a safety or a corner in FA. Decent players. At this point I know it isn't going to be mind blowing players. Just give me a player who can look decent. I'll take my chances we can gain another in the draft.
If you go in to a draft expecting more than 1 solid starter from the get go, you have a bad plan. 31 other teams are trying real hard to screw up your plan.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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thought he might sign with a Texas team  Wish we would give him TC one more time  I know its more of a dedication thing than a a team move but this dude was $$$ last year. Only problem is the bucks to keep a kicker...Who will we have franchsed??
"Its too much of a coincidence to be a coincidence"
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I am a bit edgy on the defensive backfield myself. I would at minimum like to gain at least a safety or a corner in FA. Decent players. At this point I know it isn't going to be mind blowing players. Just give me a player who can look decent. I'll take my chances we can gain another in the draft.
If you go in to a draft expecting more than 1 solid starter from the get go, you have a bad plan. 31 other teams are trying real hard to screw up your plan.
I agree, and that's what I'm saying. If Hortons' D is in fact going to be running multiple fronts, I guess it really doesn't matter, but that doesn't change the fact that the defensive backfield was a major issue last year, and has seen no improvements to this point. Why not address it now to create more options come draft day? And I agree with those who have said some guys just may not want to sign here, and that may be why we haven't seen any additions, so I guess the thing is to just wait, and hope that something is done prior to going into the draft.
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I know he wants to get close to Austin, but Dallas has a great kicker and I thought Houstin did too.
Could be teams interested in him are not getting him closer to home,
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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Pfft... Never heard of this dude, so who cares. Also, for now, it is fashionable to trash everything the Browns do because we've earned our whipping boy status. Whatever. If this FO get's it right and we start winning, this kind of predictable crap will go away.
::shrug::
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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+1
Ditto 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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What you guys are saying is you would have wanted to have kept Homie, Shurmer and Juaron.
Not at all, I didn't want them here from the getgo. I have nothing against Horton, he's versatile and can run either D. I guess I'm a bit edgy because we've seen no upgrades at CB, but I'm seeing they are working on addressing it now.
The cool thing about acquiring pass rushers is this:
It takes some of the pressure off of DB's. Last year, our DB's were being asked to defend WR's for an eternity, because of our lack of pressure on the QB.
Not saying that we don't still need an upgrade, mind you... only saying the two work hand-in-hand.
Can we get a decent CB in the draft? Would it take some off the pressure off the FO to hire an aging vet in FA? Who's left in the grocery store that would fit what we need?
These are all questions that need to be addressed, to determine what our new (and largely unknown) FO might do....
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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The Cowboys game exposed our secondary. Romo played fast and our pass rush had zero chance of getting to him.
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I spend many hours a week in the car listening to Sirius XM NFL radio. Adam Schein is a Browns hater pure and simple. The could sign God and he would have an issue with it. He predicted we would win one game last year and while we exceeded that by far never once did he say anything good. Screw him
I also listen to that station when Howard Stern is replayed but it seems like it has way too many commercials - so many it drives me crazy, almost not worth listening to. And their intros to all their shows are L-O-N-G! Time killers. They need to trim the fat off that station, but i guess 'the fat' pays their bills (sighs).
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I wasn't criticizing you, Dover. I was just pointing out that we needed a corner and a FS no matter what defense we ran and I highly doubt Heckert would have brought one in.
I don't know if we can get a quality CB and a quality FS in the draft. I do hope that the Browns fill at least one of those positions in FA.
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...I also listen to that station
While Schein falls into eotab's "bozo" category, there are many excellent commentators on Sirius such as Gil Brandt, tim Ryan, Pat Kirwan, Howard David, etc. Well worthwhile listening to if you have Sirius.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I wasn't criticizing you, Dover. I was just pointing out that we needed a corner and a FS no matter what defense we ran and I highly doubt Heckert would have brought one in.
I don't know if we can get a quality CB and a quality FS in the draft. I do hope that the Browns fill at least one of those positions in FA.
I know you wasn't criticizing me, and I understand what you're saying, but yes, I do believe Heckert would have addressed the backfield through FA, because isn't it true that a large percentage of cap money had to be spent this year? I'm thinking Heckert would be pretty much doing the same thing we are seeing done by the new Browns brass, and if he were still here, he would be targeting LB's and DB's and possibly an OG with FA $, and he put himself in a great position to do so, but that opportunity for him died when Lerner sold the team.
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Kinda glad to see articles like this... Seems like every time we get the accolades, it blows up in our face...
I know you don't win with FA, but I think Kruger is better than what we have. Groves provides depth, and Bryant also helps with the transition of a new scheme.
Plus I love that it was all aimed at the same area, the front 7. If only one of those guys pans out, I think we're still OK. Although mark me down for still wanting to address needs that help us stop the run.
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As of now, I agree. We....Are.....Bombing  Kreuger and Bryant: OK, They address some of the 3-4 switch. That's all. We lose Parker and Rucker. We minimize Sheard and DQ. This is not a huge upgrade of the front 7, just part of the cost of switching schemes. But, its not those 2 contracts that are causing us to "Bomb." Its the moves we aren't making and the guys we have lost. Dawson Cribbs Watson Smith Patterson Brown So far, we have created more holes. Special Teams, Tight End, Cornerback have all taken a step backwards. Nothing-doing at Fullback either. Plus, no insurance bodies for GoCong or Pinkston. We've got work to do, and we're down a 2nd round draft pick. No comp picks coming our way.
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We lose Parker and Rucker.
Sorry - you totally lost me with that analysis!
As for the reported REAL REASON we are Bombing.
Only Dawson is a major loss - if we indeed lose him!
Cribbs...love him but not a major loss.
Watson I like him a lot n didn't want to lose him but he's been injured a lot n has like 7-8 concussions...his next might end his career.
The rest??? Sorry nothing lost...possibly Patterson but there must of been a history with he n Banner or his agent n Banner. So we lost a guy who what played about 5 games for us as the Nickel QB???
bombed when we added Kruger n Bryant - both young n entering their prime n seem to be perfect pieces to our New Attack D. Yep we bombed
Down graded DQ n Sheard??? Why don't we see how the Defense is going to look - this is not RAC's or Mangini's 3-4 for all we know this new Defense might define the two's career!
Sorry I ain't buying the Eyeore we are doomed post. I don't see the logic. I see the best young foundation this organization has accrued in like forever. Cap Space up the Kazoo n we got 2 pieces we targeted. Because of the foundation we don't need Quantity we need Quality that fit the puzzle. I think we did that n we are getting accolades all over the place except this BOZO from serius - which sort of shows that he is IGNORANT of the sport or is a FAN of a rival n will never say anything good about us!
It appears it seems to be Both!
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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