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j/c
Kinda funny how some of the same people who complained that the previous regime didn't have enough time [3 years] are now crying that we haven't filled every hole in 2 weeks. 
Did the current FO create the holes at CB, FS, FB, and QB?
Excellent point. I love it.
If some people could not complain they would not know how to speak ... JMHO 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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j/c
Kinda funny how some of the same people who complained that the previous regime didn't have enough time [3 years] are now crying that we haven't filled every hole in 2 weeks.
Did the current FO create the holes at CB, FS, FB, and QB?
See what I meant in the other thread? 
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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j/c
Kinda funny how some of the same people who complained that the previous regime didn't have enough time [3 years] are now crying that we haven't filled every hole in 2 weeks.
Did the current FO create the holes at CB, FS, FB, and QB?
The majority of people are complaining because the FO said it wouldn't be a complete tear down and rebuild however, they cut a lot and didn't replace with much. We are smart enough to see a pattern from other regimes in the past. They have shown little interest in any of the FA left and have said from the beginning we wouldn't be heavily involved in FA. Actions speak louder than words on this tear down and rebuild.
This off-season we lost 13 players (most of which we drafted and will prob come back to haunt us again in 3-4 years) and so far have signed 4 new players, resigned 1 (Obi). We have the potential to lose 4 more with Exclusive Rights. Realistically, I do think we will lose 2-3 of out the 4 but Norwood will have to be kept because of our WR depth. That should take our total to around 15-16 players lost this year with 4 signed while we only have 6 draft picks. I hope we don't make up for the other 5-6 on the UFA list.
Exclusive rights players: Auston English, Jordan Norwood, Emmanuel Stephens, and Christian Yount.
to answer your question more specifically:
CB- Yes because we let Brown go (not complaining)
FS- no young is still on the roster (needs upgraded maybe next year when his contract is up)
FB - no bc there is technically no hole thanks to Maracic (can't wait to watch him next year)
QB- as some posters say... we have the next starting QB for the next 4-5 years already there so there is no hole. Colt is the Browns member rep so it's not like they will cut him this year.
The rest of the mess we have on our hands is pretty big because they did create a hole at K, PR, KR, RB (filled by obi) P (singed unknown Lanning) LB's (switching to a 3-4) signed Kruger and Groves TE (released watson signed barnidge) WR (let Cribbs and Mass go) K let Dawson go (haven't signed anyone) and a lot of starters/depth has left the building.
Maybe the FO doesn't think we have a weak spot at DB/FB/QB. I'm not sure how but maybe they see a starter next to Haden and Ward out of the list we have? (Bademosi? Wade? Gipson? Hagg?) Maybe they think that Young can bounce back and be a fair FS. Maybe Weeden and Marecic will be better next year?
Here is a list of current DB's
37 Bademosi, Johnson DB 6-0 200 22 R Stanford
39 Gipson, Tashaun DB 5-11 205 22 R Wyoming
23 Haden, Joe DB 5-11 190 23 3 Florida
27 Hagg, Eric DB 6-1 205 23 2 Nebraska
31 Miller, Prince DB 5-9 210 25 2 Georgia
38 Richardson, Kent DB 5-11 200 25 West Virginia
22 Skrine, Buster DB 5-9 185 23 2 Tennessee-Chattanooga
26 Wade, Trevin DB 5-10 190 23 R Arizona
43 Ward, T. J. DB 5-10 200 26 3 Oregon
28 Young, Usama DB 6-0 200 27 6 Kent State
Below is our depth at WR. Outside of Gordon and Little we we may as well try to light a fart in the wind. We desperately need a #2 WR so Little can work the slot. Maybe we can find someone that can work the slot better and take our chances with Little developing into a #2. Cooper is not reliable Norwood (who is on IR) is not an Ideal #4 or #5 (is tied to both Chud and Banner) and Benjamin might be a speedster #3 but he is also (probably) going to be doing KR/PR duties and (probably) weights the least amount in the NFL.
80 Benjamin, Travis WR 5-10 175 23 R Miami (Fla.)
88 Cooper, Josh WR 5-10 190 24 R Oklahoma State
13 Gordon, Josh WR 6-3 225 21 R Baylor
15 Little, Greg WR 6-2 220 23 2 North Carolina
10 Norwood, Jordan WR 5-11 180 26 2 Penn State
It is very early but I don't see our team's FO trying to make it into the playoffs. I see a team trying to plug a few holes so fans will watch while rebuilding/installing a new offense/defense this year and set it up for next year. Keep in mind we have to spend something like 30+ million next year to be closer to the cap.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Giving us a bad grade "so far" is akin to giving a student a bad grade after two days of class with no assessments.
If these moves are open to praise and cheerleading, they are fair game for criticism as well.
You're patient, that's cool. I respect that. But I'm going to keep calling it as I see it. Good move/Bad move, I'll offer my opinion, no agenda. And there have been plenty of moves. "So Far" is there, b'c Banner has plenty of time to change it. And I hope he gives me reason to!
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the FO said it wouldn't be a complete tear down and rebuild however, they cut a lot and didn't replace with much.
who did we cut or lose that wasn't fully replaceable?
Phil Dawson, maybe Sheldon Brown? (not if it's '11 Sheldon though)
this isn't Mangini trading Edwards & Winslow.
we have more pieces than we have had in recent history. is it enough? i don't know. I'm still concerned at a number of spots.
#gmstrong
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Colt is the Browns member rep so it's not like they will cut him this year.
If Colt isn't cut, it will have nothing to do with him being the member rep. If the member rep gets cut, the team just elects a new one. It certainly isn't a guarantee of a roster spot.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Maybe the FO doesn't think we have a weak spot at DB/FB/QB.
Solid post, superbowldogg. Here's my thoughts on these 3...
FB: We can find decent options right up until the season starts. Late draft, UDFA, cut list. I'd prefer to act quickly and get a good one, but a value-upgrade shouldn't be hard.
QB: Tough fix. Can't fault them for passing on most of these veterans. Best option is probably to give Weeden another year, and keep going after projects to keep a "Plan B" in our pipeline.
DB: I've got no clue. Millner would be a nice addition, but we can't be sure he'll be there at #6. Even if we take Millner, I still think we need another veteran. Hoping for help in the next few weeks. FS? Been scratching my head for 2 years, going on 3. I guess if we find a gem in round 3, Usama Young is serviceable until the rookie is ready.
Currently, it looks like we have a lot more open roster spots that we have draft picks. All too familiar. How many of these spots get filled by serviceable free agents, and how many go to UDFAs?
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+1 
Here we go again
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the FO said it wouldn't be a complete tear down and rebuild however, they cut a lot and didn't replace with much.
who did we cut or lose that wasn't fully replaceable?
Phil Dawson, maybe Sheldon Brown? (not if it's '11 Sheldon though)
this isn't Mangini trading Edwards & Winslow.
we have more pieces than we have had in recent history. is it enough? i don't know. I'm still concerned at a number of spots.
If you are happy with another 5-11 or 4-12 season, then I guess you are right, why upgrade the team?
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You might be happy with Wade and Skrine I'm not, but I have no worries. Banner isn't going to let that happen. Banner isn't even as confident in Banner as you are.
Obviously you did not read my post....just making up your own OPINION n stating that is what I'm stating. A ploy usually used by those I am tooling in debate...Ignore what I state n make up your own stuff n glom it as my opinion.
How does me stating Patterson was hurt most the year so why is this a big loss that will be felt? Mean I am confident in Wade n Skrine. Or that I stated that Sheldon Brown sadly has lost his legs...The mind is willing but the legs just don't go where the mind it telling it. Its called aging. I am saying he will not be such a loss that we are in deep trouble. Now let me educate you a bit (I know I know how condescending I am) just trying to educate you. PROSPECTS PROGRESS! This is a fact. In the case of DBs sure the kids drafted in the top 50 usually start the first or 2nd season but contribute right away. Without INJURY being a variable those later round picks are not expected to provide IMPACT tot he team. They are expected to contribute to ST right away n hopefully can DEVELOP to good depth or a starter as a DB.
Skrine was our #4 CB not 2 or 3...of course he was not ready...although he didn't look bad at all in the slot. One thing he did well though was come up fast on the run n not afraid to tackle/hit. Something Horton said he wanted n saw in our tapes. Progress it is expected that DBs especially them who get drafted later which means they had some reason to be drafted there...size, speed, experience, small school? But in general it has always been expected around that 3rd season that they would start to "GET IT". Skrine was very Raw in experience. Wade was injured a lot n I never even mentioned him in some other posts.
I also stated that I agreed with you. I think the plan is to have Skrine remain at the slot...possibly an upgrade on Patterson??? But that we were looking to get a CB in FA - we only know of our try on Grimes...possibly we chased others but they didn't get to the stage of a visit. So maybe it doesn't happen...we will go to plan B...Who knows who we draft doesn't step up. Who on our young Roster - starts to GET IT n steps up.
FS - I've said it in several post n not ONE DAWG has even mentioned him in there Doom n Gloom. The kid to watch is Gipson.
We got 7 SEVEN DBs with less than 3 years experience on our Roster. Two Starters with 3 years of experience Haden n Ward. I'm not saying all of those 7 are going to step up n become Starters. I'm saying all we need is 2-3 to GET IT! I think Gipson n Skrine are on the cusp. Hagg also showed improvement as the season was winding down. I know ONLY IN CLEVELAND young players do not progress 
We got the Steelers n Ravens over the years let Pro-Bowlers walk n they bring in young players they are developing to take on the role. It gets done.
Us Patterson n an aging Sheldon Brown neither remotely close to a Pro Bowler n neither will have a starting position handed to them...We are done for letting them go???
Wait your words: " a cornerback fiasco." Nice words that do not remote resemble the loss of Patterson n Sheldon...Also you have chosen to totally ignore our Defense is changing....Nah we don't know exactly what is in store. What we can figure out is he wants our DBs flying around n attacking "Little guys who can HIT"
CB fiasco..that is the only thing typed that deserved a  not you laughing at something you WROTE not me n portray it as MY OPINION  nothing really disappoints me in a discussion/debate then somebody MAKING UP CRAPOLA n try to pass it as my OPINION. I post in length not cause I love typing. I wish to make it very clear on why I have an opinion. Not to have you Make us stuff n pass it off as my opinion. Fiasco...Patterson n Sheldon??? funny many were saying that about them in their play...now that we released them or didn't re-sign them they are Great
So all I see is this ONE Bozo saying we did Mediocre in this FA period (1st week btw it ain't over) while all the so called Experts most with NFL experience as players n coaches. Yeah talking heads...but when All en mass state that we most improved in the AFC North n one of the teams that best utilized this early FA period to better our team. I find it very odd a poster will champion the one Bozo who has shown a distaste for our team in the past.
The only loss that is a REALITY LOSS is probably Dawson at K...you never know until you see who we replace him with.
JMHO...n you are entitled to yours...just please quote me...not make up QUOTES n portray it as what I say...I see that as a personal insult so asking you nicely not to do that again... Thanks in advance.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Maybe the FO doesn't think we have a weak spot at DB/FB/QB.
Solid post, superbowldogg. Here's my thoughts on these 3...
FB: We can find decent options right up until the season starts. Late draft, UDFA, cut list. I'd prefer to act quickly and get a good one, but a value-upgrade shouldn't be hard.
QB: Tough fix. Can't fault them for passing on most of these veterans. Best option is probably to give Weeden another year, and keep going after projects to keep a "Plan B" in our pipeline.
DB: I've got no clue. Millner would be a nice addition, but we can't be sure he'll be there at #6. Even if we take Millner, I still think we need another veteran. Hoping for help in the next few weeks. FS? Been scratching my head for 2 years, going on 3. I guess if we find a gem in round 3, Usama Young is serviceable until the rookie is ready.
Currently, it looks like we have a lot more open roster spots that we have draft picks. All too familiar. How many of these spots get filled by serviceable free agents, and how many go to UDFAs?
Good post overall Don..
I don't think things are over. No doubt we would be wise to add some defensive backs. The deal is most on the market aren't the first days of FA type players. No real superstars out there. Lets see what happens over the next week or so.
One other thought. This is a great year to draft defensive backs. Millner is the cream, but there are lots of others....going as deep as round 4-5 who in other years might be gone by round 3, simply because there are so many of them.
Going in to the draft we needed some linebackers....with the switch and signings to this point, we have eased that a bit and still remain deep on the line. Maybe deep enough we can trade one for a solid CB/safety, and we still have the draft.
If we go in to camp with no new talent in the backfield and go in to camp without a couple of kickers competing for the spot, I agree, we blew it.
I don't disagree more needs to be done. I just disagree it needs to be done already.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I don't disagree more needs to be done. I just disagree it needs to be done already.
BOOM!
#gmstrong
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nothing really disappoints me in a discussion/debate then somebody MAKING UP CRAPOLA n try to pass it as my OPINION. I post in length not cause I love typing. I wish to make it very clear on why I have an opinion. Not to have you Make us stuff n pass it off as my opinion. Fiasco...
"fiasco" was my opinion and assessment of the situation. No idea why you thought I was attributing it to you. I wasn't. My quote was accurate, 100% derived from your post. Your quote is your's. My opinion is mine. There's much better way to re-iterate that something isn't your opinion if you feel that needs clarified. I could have blown up like this several times about your posts. Shouting paragraphs, doom & bozos, no dice. I'm not playing that.
If you agree that we need a couple more cornerbacks, great. If not, we disagree.
And I'm not sure who said our new tight end sucks, but for clarification, may the record show it was not me! 
Last edited by DonCoyote; 03/20/13 11:42 AM.
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I don't disagree more needs to be done. I just disagree it needs to be done already.
Let's say in a few months you are going to need to get a good suit because you have to go to a black tie wedding. JC Penny's is the only store you can shop at and they are having a sale on all of their suits. There is a limited supply that you can choose from. There are 5-6 really good suits that will be a good fit for said wedding. You know for sure that they will not restock until next year. Right now you have more than enough money to buy 5-6 of the best ones they offer. You know you are competing with everyone else who needs suits that will be attending the same event.
Right now there is 1 decent suit left on the shelf that is somewhat questionable but clearly better than the 15 that are not going to work. The others are out of style, not high quality, and are probably the wrong color or size and clearly wouldn't be worth the investment.
When do you decide that the time is right to buy the suit? Do you buy right away? Do you go after all of the good suits are gone? Do you hope that someone returns a suit 2 weeks before the wedding and buy whatever is left on the shelf? Do you show up to the wedding in boxers and a dress sleeve shirt and tie?
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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2nd String
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I don't disagree more needs to be done. I just disagree it needs to be done already.
Let's say in a few months you are going to need to get a good suit because you have to go to a black tie wedding. JC Penny's is the only store you can shop at and they are having a sale on all of their suits. There is a limited supply that you can choose from. There are 5-6 really good suits that will be a good fit for said wedding. You know for sure that they will not restock until next year. Right now you have more than enough money to buy 5-6 of the best ones they offer. You know you are competing with everyone else who needs suits that will be attending the same event.
Right now there is 1 decent suit left on the shelf that is somewhat questionable but clearly better than the 15 that are not going to work. The others are out of style, not high quality, and are probably the wrong color or size and clearly wouldn't be worth the investment.
When do you decide that the time is right to buy the suit? Do you buy right away? Do you go after all of the good suits are gone? Do you hope that someone returns a suit 2 weeks before the wedding and buy whatever is left on the shelf? Do you show up to the wedding in boxers and a dress sleeve shirt and tie?
This is an interesting analogy.
As shown by my previous posts, I obviously stand on the side of thinking that the Browns should have just signed Lewis, Cox, Talib, or even Sean Smith rather than waiting to sign the ultra-risky Grimes or older Asomugha.
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If we go in to camp with no new talent in the backfield and go in to camp without a couple of kickers competing for the spot, I agree, we blew it.
I don't disagree more needs to be done. I just disagree it needs to be done already.
For sure, it is a long offseason. Players can't do anything at this point. I've got no problems as long as we get improvement before camp. If Banner gets some value contracts, more power to him!
The thread title says "so far." That's how I approached it. Praising Kruger and Bryant on day 1, the same thing. People grade drafts early, front offices, coaching hires, etc. This will sort itself out by September.
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No idea why you thought I was attributing it to you. I wasn't. My quote was accurate, 100% derived from your post.
Obviously we got a FAILURE to Communicate...in my best "Cool hand Luke" immitation.
"Fiasco" I quoted your opinion of our CB situation not miss representing my opinion.
I clearly put in your quote at the top of my post stating my opinion which I simply did not state at all. Not once did I suggest that Skrine n Wade should be our #2 or #3 n are happy with it...and yet you were stating that I SAID THAT.
Apologies regarding the TE.
You cannot expect to add 22 starters at FA n think they will make the team good even if on paper it does. It just does not work that way. We need pieces to fit.
Rookies get MOLDED into the FIT. And we pick them to easily be MOLDED into the fit why we have a choice...Why our Boards will Differ from the DRAFT SITE EXPERT BOARDS...FA's a piece here n there for the puzzle. But the more you are adding for TOP TIER (starters) the worse your TEAM PLAY will be. I can almost guarantee that.
OL...our OL coach is still here...so the mold isn't quite changing. O big time change but we got a lot of Impact players that not only FIT...actually fit BETTER in our new O than the previous. Including Trent n Weeden.
CBs - I have stated from the get go, we will pick one up from FA to start the vacated Sheldon Brown CB spot. I think the FO has agreed to that but its a big ticket item all are looking for so that we haven't garnished the interest from the player nor agent I guess. But this isn't a FIASCO...we still have a need to be filled. Yes. But that need probably is there regardless of Patterson n Sheldon staying here. Meaning, they are not the answer. Yes we might have to go to PLAN B n draft a decent prospect to groom there or hopefully one of our 7 youngsters step up n blossom enough to win the job n prove to be a better option than an again CB who constantly got beat deep.
Unfortunately we don't have that prime early 2nd round pick for that CB starter. I don't think we will take one at #6 for Urgent need. Although Millner could very well be THE GUY we are Targeting??? I know we wish to go into this without that URGENT NEED...and why we are targeting FA. But our Choice is Grimes...until he is a done deal as a Yay or Nay we will not target n sign another in his stead.
JMHO.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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\Obviously we got a FAILURE to Communicate...in my best "Cool hand Luke" immitation.
Easy to do on a message board. I think we agree on much more than we disagree on.
Our cuts were all old and replaceable. I'm not denying that. I Just hope most of the replacements turn out to be upgrades.
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As shown by my previous posts, I obviously stand on the side of thinking that the Browns should have just signed Lewis, Cox, Talib, or even Sean Smith rather than waiting to sign the ultra-risky Grimes or older Asomugha.
Lewis is overrated, Cox is always hurt, and Talib wasn't likely to go anywhere so that leaves Smith who is a good solid CB that signed with KC for 6 mill a year. The only 2 healthy and talented CBs out there that we missed on that i can see are Smith and Cason.
#gmstrong
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As shown by my previous posts, I obviously stand on the side of thinking that the Browns should have just signed Lewis, Cox, Talib, or even Sean Smith rather than waiting to sign the ultra-risky Grimes or older Asomugha.
Lewis is overrated, Cox is always hurt, and Talib wasn't likely to go anywhere so that leaves Smith who is a good solid CB that signed with KC for 6 mill a year. The only 2 healthy and talented CBs out there that we missed on that i can see are Smith and Cason.
Where is all of this "Lewis is overrated" talk coming from? It's like people assume that because he plays for Pittsburgh, he must benefitting from their talent on defense. These people are living in 2010, though. Pittsburgh's defense is ancient. Their pass rush is now average at best. Two of their three starters on the defensive line last year were in their mid-30s and declining rapidly. Polamalu missed nine games last year. In other words, there wasn't a lot to work with last year. Pittsburgh's defense remaining so good statistically is a testament to how good Lewis was. He's not overrated at all.
Cox is hurt often but plays at a Pro Bowl level when he's healthy. All the Browns would have needed to do if they acquired him is draft a CB in the mid-rounds of the draft or signed a veteran for cheap to back him up. And we all know the Browns had/have the cap space to do that.
Talib could have been had for the right price. I'm a firm believer in the idea that money talks when it comes to Free Agency.
...
Oh, and Cason is freaking awful. Take it from the Chargers fan. There's a reason he got $2 million and the rest of these guys got $5-6 million. Only 12 CBs in the league gave up more yards last year and I remember reading in Week 13 that QBs had a 103.4 rating against him. And he had an even worse 2011 season.
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The majority of people are complaining because the FO said it wouldn't be a complete tear down and rebuild however, they cut a lot and didn't replace with much.
They cut a lot?
Before I even get to the rest of your post, will you please tell me the long list of guys we "cut?"
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Legend
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I don't disagree more needs to be done. I just disagree it needs to be done already.
Let's say in a few months you are going to need to get a good suit because you have to go to a black tie wedding. JC Penny's is the only store you can shop at and they are having a sale on all of their suits. There is a limited supply that you can choose from. There are 5-6 really good suits that will be a good fit for said wedding. You know for sure that they will not restock until next year. Right now you have more than enough money to buy 5-6 of the best ones they offer. You know you are competing with everyone else who needs suits that will be attending the same event.
Right now there is 1 decent suit left on the shelf that is somewhat questionable but clearly better than the 15 that are not going to work. The others are out of style, not high quality, and are probably the wrong color or size and clearly wouldn't be worth the investment.
When do you decide that the time is right to buy the suit? Do you buy right away? Do you go after all of the good suits are gone? Do you hope that someone returns a suit 2 weeks before the wedding and buy whatever is left on the shelf? Do you show up to the wedding in boxers and a dress sleeve shirt and tie?
That doesn't work for me. Yacoubian Tailors has my sizes and can start a suit, shirt, trousers, etc., to get it pre-fitted....a fitting in a couple of days if pressed and I have the neatly tailored item I need in a week or less.
I don't mean to sound big shotty, because those that know me know I am not that way, but the Browns and a JC Penny suit just don't fit. Make it a suit from the rack at Belk....they have a nice mens department.
My real point in this is if you have the money, you don't have to start early and take the first thing off the rack.
Players and agents know we have dollars to spend. I am sure that all the agents with a decent player know that. For the guys we really want, all we have to do is tell the agent to find his best verified deal and we will beat it if we choose.
Yacoubian
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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The majority of people are complaining because the FO said it wouldn't be a complete tear down and rebuild however, they cut a lot and didn't replace with much.
They cut a lot?
Before I even get to the rest of your post, will you please tell me the long list of guys we "cut?"
cut a lot of ties, decided to not resign, let go, released
better?
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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I was just trying to make a point that if the items are hot on the shelf... usually people go check them out. Even if they don't buy them.
That's cool about the suits. If you didn't want to sound big shotty you wouldn't have told me that you don't want to sound that way.
have you made any donations to the board? that sounds more interesting than a conversation about custom made tailor suits
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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That's cool about the suits. If you didn't want to sound big shotty you wouldn't have told me that you don't want to sound that way.
That's probably true. A few martinis sometimes do the talking. Not too big to admit that. Sorry if it came over as a put down, that wasn't the intent, though in retrospect I wish I had worded things differently. I think I am a much better poster in the AM over the PM.
The intent was to show the Browns have the money and don't have to be the first guy to the table. In our case, being last is the advantage.
Now if we haven't made it know to X,Y,and Z's agents we have an interest and encourage them to call us once they start getting offers.....yep, that's a problem.
Again, sorry if I offended you.
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cut a lot of ties, decided to not resign, let go, released
better?
Not really, especially when you used it as the premise of your rather lengthy argument.
Other than Phil, who have we lost that was of much value?
Parker is old. He's still out there waiting for a job.
Rucker was a disappointment. He doesn't have a job and is listed second from the bottom of all available DE's.
Maaiva? I can't believe the guy ever did start a game. He is a great example of how poor our roster was.
Watson? i could see keeping him. He caught the ball, but he is older and has had several concussions.
Sheldon Brown is old. His legs are old. Most people hated the guy. They ripped him every week.
Cribbs was going to be allowed to walk no matter which regime was here and I think the same is true of Phil.
Personally, i would much rather have Kruger and Bryant over Rucker and Parker. But keep complaining about the new regime. You have a lot of allies. And keep the dream alive that H and H were so great. We have holes all over this team, but Heckert sure did a great job of building this team. The current FO hasn't plugged all of those holes in a 3 week, so they suck. The previous regime had 3 years, yet they did a great job and needed more time.
You guys are killing me. 
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The tracker shows Watson has signed with the Saints....just a FYI
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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All Pro
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Versatile, it seems like Haslam and Banner are actually pretty big on H&H's drafts. Although Lombardi obviously wasn't.
I keep hearing about the foundation, building around the great group of young guys. The lack of urgency at CB, FS, TE tells me they aren't afraid to go with some of Heckert's late round picks. (gulp)
this is looking awfully similar to 2011 and 2012. More cuts than additions, $millions sitting on the sidelines and an "oh-well, we weren't winning the Super Bowl this year anyhow" attitude.
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Actually Every Team even those with established continuity have turnover I think the NFL average is like 25%... I'm sure a dawg out there has the correct %.
In past years - Mangini...within 2 years over 50% turnover...Shurmur within 2 years well over 50% turnover. Going back to Butch over 50% turnover within 2 years n then another Blowup due to 20mil over the cap in 2003. RAC big time Turnover of the roster also.
Actually n I do credit the Young Talent that we got here - not aging Vets if you see that is who were let go. Watson, Dawson, Cribbs were Vets. Obviously young guys under their first contract are very valuable n cost effective to teams. We got them...I don't see a massive Turnover as wee have in EVERY Regime that I have seen come here. Now I know we are bringing in 6 rookies from the draft...Probably some UDFA as well but it will be a hard time to make our 53 Roster.
I do find it odd that a dawg here would actually state that we are going through a big turnover when its just the opposite. We are sticking with the youth...n just getting a few key FA that fit the puzzle.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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The previous regime had 3 years, yet they did a great job and needed more time.
vers...do you have any idea what it means to rebuild a team's roster via the draft?
Haslam and Banner have publicly stated, they want to continue to build the Browns via the draft....
...in other words, Haslam and Banner want to finish what Holmgren and Heckert started in 2010.
Haslam and Banner did not buy a team that old and run down...they bought a team that just finished the 3rd yr of a 5 yr plan to rebuild the Browns roster, via the draft.
Now it is up to Haslam, Banner and Lombardi to finish what Holmgren and Heckert started in 2010.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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mac, it's nice to see that you have so comfortably and firmly ensconced your nose up the new regime's tush so quickly. I was afraid that it might get cold after the old regime was unceremoniously dismissed. Fortunately, it seems there wasn't time. 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Quote:
Haslam and Banner did not buy a team that old and run down...they bought a team that just finished the 3rd yr of a 5 yr plan to rebuild the Browns roster, via the draft.
Now it is up to Haslam, Banner and Lombardi to finish what Holmgren and Heckert started in 2010.
WCO: Gone.
4-3: Gone.
Weeden: Luke-warm reception at best.
That means the offensive scheme AND defensive schemes have been trashed. This regime isn't "finishing" the work of Holmgren any more than Holmgren was "finishing" the work of Mangini. That implies the previous regime did a good job. They didn't. You are what your record says you are, and we sucked every year of their three years. This regime scrapped the "5-year plan" from the previous regime and are putting their own stamp and direction on the team.
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Haslam and Banner have publicly stated, they want to continue to build the Browns via the draft....
...in other words, Haslam and Banner want to finish what Holmgren and Heckert started in 2010.
Horsefeathers.
In other words, Haslam and Banner want to do what the other 31-teams try to do: Build through the draft.
Holmgren's plan was a failure. There was nothing of that plan to "finish."
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
Quote:
The previous regime had 3 years, yet they did a great job and needed more time.
vers...do you have any idea what it means to rebuild a team's roster via the draft?
Haslam and Banner have publicly stated, they want to continue to build the Browns via the draft....
...in other words, Haslam and Banner want to finish what Holmgren and Heckert started in 2010.
Haslam and Banner did not buy a team that old and run down...they bought a team that just finished the 3rd yr of a 5 yr plan to rebuild the Browns roster, via the draft.
Now it is up to Haslam, Banner and Lombardi to finish what Holmgren and Heckert started in 2010.
No they didn't do a great job, not even an average job. Its not a question of opinion its a question of lack of performance.
Regarding the talent of our roster, there are many people here who like to believe in fairy tales and how every frog turns out a beautiful prince in the end. Reality is that frogs are frogs, and that we have only a handful of good players in our roster, IMHO most of the rest of our young roster will not be in the NFL for long.
I still remember the times when Veikune was similar to Mathews, Greg Little to Julio Jones, Hardesty, Momass, Robiskie,etc etc... pffffff
Last edited by rastanplan; 03/21/13 08:26 AM.
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But Toad......you do see where mac is coming from, don't you?  If the Browns win w/in the next couple of years, it will be because of the great foundation that The Big Show and Heckert left the new regime with. If the Browns continue to lose, he will say that the new regime are failures. mac wins either way. And that is the only way he will play.
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Actually Every Team even those with established continuity have turnover I think the NFL average is like 25%... I'm sure a dawg out there has the correct %.
In past years - Mangini...within 2 years over 50% turnover...Shurmur within 2 years well over 50% turnover. Going back to Butch over 50% turnover within 2 years n then another Blowup due to 20mil over the cap in 2003. RAC big time Turnover of the roster also.
Actually n I do credit the Young Talent that we got here - not aging Vets if you see that is who were let go. Watson, Dawson, Cribbs were Vets. Obviously young guys under their first contract are very valuable n cost effective to teams. We got them...I don't see a massive Turnover as wee have in EVERY Regime that I have seen come here. Now I know we are bringing in 6 rookies from the draft...Probably some UDFA as well but it will be a hard time to make our 53 Roster.
Quote:
I do find it odd that a dawg here would actually state that we are going through a big turnover when its just the opposite. We are sticking with the youth...n just getting a few key FA that fit the puzzle.
I remember writing about that one day and doing a breakdown for everyone. that was a while ago:)
I am also willing to point out that we have gotten younger at most of the positions. From what I remember we are the second youngest team in the NFL and now Brown and Dawson are gone... our average age should drop even more. We don't have a single person over 30 on the team as of this moment. DQ and Gocong have the most experience on this team 7 years and they are tied with Weeden at age 29. Joe Thomas is in that second group of geriatrics with 3 other (Cousins, Gronkowski, and Groves 28 years.
let me say that one again we don't have a single person on our team over 30. (woah) I'm seriously shocked.
JMHO
the turnover is not the problem it is expected. The turnover of starters with not much of great value to fill the holes becomes a problem.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Damn-straight I knew, which is why I chimed in. 
I am a little disappointed we haven't landed a DB of some sort yet, whether it be a Safety or a CB. However, the moves we've made are solid. There's still time to add a player or two that can make an immediate impact. I've the feeling that once Grimes goes off the market the rest of the CB's will follow. I just hope we grab one of the stop-gap guys so that we're not forced to spend high in the draft on the position. I'd rather that we choose to spend on the position.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Seriously? You're telling the biggest fence sitter on the board that mac wants it both ways....
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Holmgren's plan was a failure. There was nothing of that plan to "finish."
Ok, enough of this revisionists history crap. Get off the fence and please list, player by player, the "foundation players" pre-Heckert and post-Heckert. My definition of "foundation players" are 2-4 year starters from when they were drafted and you'd probably like to keep when they hit FA, that DOES include AVG to below AVG starters (especially late rounders)
Here's mine:
Pre: Thomas, Mack, Rubin, DQ = 4
Post: Thomas, Mack, Rubin, DQ, Haden, Ward, Lauvao, Taylor, Little, Cameron, Pinkston, TRich, Weeden, Schwartz, Hughes, Benjamin (as a RET/4th WR), JMJ, Winn = 18
Obviously the 2012 is still fresh off, so maybe 1 up to 3 of those could leave that list, but we're still looking at revamped CORE of great, good, AVG and below AVG NFL players...also noteworthy is that he re-signed and kept 3 of the inherited players, that does cost some cap too and especially Rubin's and Thomas' contracts already look like steals today and will so even more with every season passing
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Damn-straight I knew, which is why I chimed in.
I am a little disappointed we haven't landed a DB of some sort yet, whether it be a Safety or a CB. However, the moves we've made are solid. There's still time to add a player or two that can make an immediate impact. I've the feeling that once Grimes goes off the market the rest of the CB's will follow. I just hope we grab one of the stop-gap guys so that we're not forced to spend high in the draft on the position. I'd rather that we choose to spend on the position.
Its a Deja Vu, this time of year we have been having the same conservation, in the end we can see the results. Hope I'm wrong this time, but sure looks like we are heading on the same path.
We will probably only get one starter out of this draft, do people realize that?
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Legend
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Quote:
Personally, i would much rather have Kruger and Bryant over Rucker and Parker. But keep complaining about the new regime. You have a lot of allies. And keep the dream alive that H and H were so great. We have holes all over this team, but Heckert sure did a great job of building this team. The current FO hasn't plugged all of those holes in a 3 week, so they suck. The previous regime had 3 years, yet they did a great job and needed more time.
You guys are killing me.
I'm not arguing over having Kruger and Bryant over Rucker and Parker because we don't know who will be playing this year on the DL and who wont.
I didn't know I had a lot of allies. Today is a good day  
I have said many times that I did not want Heckert to go. He was a beast in the draft. the other H... eh I could care less. I did not want our coaching staff minus Sherman Tyke to go. I did think he was out of this tree, forest, plateau and continent.
My beef is that they haven't kicked but a few tires on a couple of cars on decent quality players after releasing 2 pro bowlers with more money to spend than almost anyone in the NFL on upgrades and IMO there are not any upgrades over Dawson that are available.
In return, we have someone who is getting his butt sued for being psycho (Bryant), someone not living up to their potential(Groves), permanent backup (Barnidge), and someone who has the high probability of being an Anderson flash in the pan (Kruger).
j/c
side rant...
I don't want to hear about how players don't want to come to Cleveland because of some junk someone that is no longer in the NFL said. If we offer the coin they will come. coaches and players at the end of last year were talking about how we are getting respect (finally) for fielding a decent team with quality players that could compete week in and week out. 2 years ago Seattle was garbage and no one wanted to go there. Detroit was going to go to the superbowl, Washington was for the old and overpriced playoff-less hopefullls. Miami and AZ was the destination of choice along to be a turn around team.
Things change quickly and there are teams that have longer playoff droughts than us. We are not the worst place for a player to end up especially considering we are top 3 in youngest teams in the NFL and the money to pay a kings ransom
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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