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If Milliner's gone and we can't trade down, imo we should just take Rhodes and not look back. Its a reach but not that much of one. The top and 2nd level CB's will be gone by the time we pick in the 3rd.
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I see Detroit going OT now in the draft. They just lost two, including their starting left. That leaves Milliner to Philly, which is a good possibility due to them losing Asomugha and DRC. I have an inkling that good ole Chip Kelly tries to go flash with his first ever NFL draft pick, or trie to maneuver a trade for one of the Geno loving teams.
I think now more than ever that there is a very good possibility that Milliner falls to 6. That being said, there is NO way that a team should avoid signing a solid FA corner on the hopes that the best in the draft falls to us. Secondary is our glaring need, we need to hit it hard. Get Grimes in here, then get Milliner if he is there.
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Doesn't Philly pick 4th and Detroit 5th?
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J/C
Grimes is not the only FA out their, if they don't get him, there are others to get. The sky will not fall.
#gmstrong
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This draft is loaded in corners. We will probably see more than a dozen rookie corners starting on opening day, although some will be in the lot.
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This draft is loaded in corners. We will probably see more than a dozen rookie corners starting on opening day, although some will be in the lot.
+1
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CBs pretty much always suck in their rookie years. They're always liabilities in that rookie year unless they're top 10 picks. As I've written before, it's probably the hardest position to play as a rookie outside of QB.
Milliner's the only CB in this draft who's going to step in and be a good starter in his rookie year. Rhodes will struggle in his rookie year, mark my words. He's talented, but raw.
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J/C
Grimes is not the only FA out their, if they don't get him, there are others to get. The sky will not fall.
But Grimes is the only good CB FA out there.
If Grimes isn't signed and Milliner isn't this team's draft pick at #6, this team's defense in 2013 is not going to be nearly as good as it could have been had the FO acted responsibly and ensured that they found a starter-quality CB this offseason.
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Just because we got the money don't mean we can get all these FA and or if they wanna come here or if we even want them. Its easy to just say we have the money and go get them and actually being able to do that. All we know is what the media reports
We know jack about what they wanna keep quite!
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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Get Grimes in here, then get Milliner if he is there.
That's not a bad idea, because Grimes is older and if we sign him, we really don't have any one glaring weakness. If you don't think corners are critical, consider we lost all five games Haden did not play.
What I thought they should've pursued in FA was a run-blocking guard like Levitre.
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I would love to have signed Grimes, if he was 100% healthy. However, if there is a risk of him not returning to form ...... which is entirely possible, at 30 and coming off an injury that has ended the careers of many players ...... then I'm fine with us not signing him.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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He signed a one year deal, which likely means his health is in question...
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Wow...5.5 million for a player coming off an Achilles tendon injury. I see why Banner and Lombardi were reluctant to sign him. Miami is definitely going all in hoping to get a new stadium deal.
Grimes would have been a nice catch. Signing your #2 CB to a 5 million dollar contract makes things really difficult signing Joe Haden later.
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I know he's 36, but I'd be okay with Antoine Winfield as our Slot/Nickel CB, on a 1 year deal. But we have to draft our bookend for Haden, and it has to be early enough for them to be capable of stepping right in.
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we have no choice now but to draft a cb in round one...even if we have to reach at 6
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Missing on Grimes wasn't the problem, never was with me anyways....
Putting your CB-eggs all into him, doing the fly over thing and stuff...that's the problem imho. They completely dropped the ball on the CB FA class
We should have signed one of the many SOLID, experienced and relatively cheap CBs like Lewis, Houston, C.Williams etc
Back to a stop gap or draft pick on a position of need that was deep in FA and we had the most cap room....makes me shake my head really.
At this point, no matter who we sign, we have to draft a CB high to be ready for no later than 2014 and possibly as a rook if the stop gap vet breaks down
Let's hope they at least try to upgrade some other positions now...
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Quote:
Missing on Grimes wasn't the problem, never was with me anyways....
Putting your CB-eggs all into him, doing the fly over thing and stuff...that's the problem imho. They completely dropped the ball on the CB FA class
We should have signed one of the many SOLID, experienced and relatively cheap CBs like Lewis, Houston, C.Williams etc
Back to a stop gap or draft pick on a position of need that was deep in FA and we had the most cap room....makes me shake my head really.
EXACTLY. It was stupid to wait for Grimes when there were plenty of other solid CBs to sign, who all went for cheaper than what was initially expected. Especially since this team had/has so much cap room. I just don't get it.
Now the Browns have put themselves in a bad position. They have to hope and pray that Milliner falls to them at #6. Because he's the only CB in this draft who's going to be solid from day one.
Those who claim "it's a deep draft for CBs, we'll be fine!" really don't seem to understand how much most CBs struggle in their first year.
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Quote:
Quote:
Missing on Grimes wasn't the problem, never was with me anyways....
Putting your CB-eggs all into him, doing the fly over thing and stuff...that's the problem imho. They completely dropped the ball on the CB FA class
We should have signed one of the many SOLID, experienced and relatively cheap CBs like Lewis, Houston, C.Williams etc
Back to a stop gap or draft pick on a position of need that was deep in FA and we had the most cap room....makes me shake my head really.
EXACTLY. It was stupid to wait for Grimes when there were plenty of other solid CBs to sign, who all went for cheaper than what was initially expected. Especially since this team had/has so much cap room. I just don't get it.
Now the Browns have put themselves in a bad position. They have to hope and pray that Milliner falls to them at #6. Because he's the only CB in this draft who's going to be solid from day one.
Those who claim "it's a deep draft for CBs, we'll be fine!" really don't seem to understand how much most CBs struggle in their first year.
agreed, however....you have to factor in that maybe none of those other FA cb;'s you mentioned simply didnt want to come here.
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we have no choice now but to draft a cb in round one...even if we have to reach at 6
Why? It's not like we are going to the SuperBowl this year. Reaching for players is how bad teams stay bad. If we can't find the player we want to fill a hole then we wait till next year to fill it and we plug a stop gap player in there for now.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Missing on Grimes wasn't the problem, never was with me anyways....
Putting your CB-eggs all into him, doing the fly over thing and stuff...that's the problem imho. They completely dropped the ball on the CB FA class
We should have signed one of the many SOLID, experienced and relatively cheap CBs like Lewis, Houston, C.Williams etc
Back to a stop gap or draft pick on a position of need that was deep in FA and we had the most cap room....makes me shake my head really.
EXACTLY. It was stupid to wait for Grimes when there were plenty of other solid CBs to sign, who all went for cheaper than what was initially expected. Especially since this team had/has so much cap room. I just don't get it.
Now the Browns have put themselves in a bad position. They have to hope and pray that Milliner falls to them at #6. Because he's the only CB in this draft who's going to be solid from day one.
Those who claim "it's a deep draft for CBs, we'll be fine!" really don't seem to understand how much most CBs struggle in their first year.
agreed, however....you have to factor in that maybe none of those other FA cb;'s you mentioned simply didnt want to come here.
There were too many available for a few of them to not be greedy and come for extra money, which is what the Browns should have been offering being they were in a tie for the most cap space in the league.
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j/c I won't lose one minute of sleep about "losing out" on a 30 year old CB coming back from an Achilles surgery and who signed a $5 million deal. I would have been  had we paid that guy that much money. IMO..we've been targeting a CB with the #6 pick since the season ended...so no shock here.
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Alright, alright.
Who's gonna start the Mike Jenkins thread now?
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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I think I'll start a Sheldon Brown thread.  FWIW...I'd like us to re-sign him...but not rely on him to be the #2 CB.
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j/c
I've said it a dozen or more times this offseason - trade with Green Bay for Sam Shields. He's 25 with starting experience. While they tendered him at the 2nd round, I'd guess we could get him for less. Rumor was that they wanted Colt last year, how about Colt and a conditional (3-5) in 2014 based on both player's stats/snaps in 2013?
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I still think DeAngelo Hall could be an option if he hasn't signed elsewhere and I missed it. He had a pretty solid year last year. I know his concerns have been attitude but I haven't heard of anything recently.
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I still think DeAngelo Hall could be an option if he hasn't signed elsewhere and I missed it. He had a pretty solid year last year. I know his concerns have been attitude but I haven't heard of anything recently.
I think he cussed out a ref or something last season and got thrown out of a game. The guy is a diva and a trouble maker. I prefer he stay far away from this team as possible.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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j/c
I won't lose one minute of sleep about "losing out" on a 30 year old CB coming back from an Achilles surgery and who signed a $5 million deal.
Have I ever once posted on this board that I preferred Grimes to other free agent CBs? No.
My point was - Grimes was the last starter-quality FA CB available since the FO decided not to sign the many younger, starter-quality CB that were available earlier, for whatever reason. Because tey didn't sign those other guys, it was important that they signed Grimes so they wouldn't have to hope and pray that Milliner, likely the only CB in the draft who will step in and be solid, fell to them.
I really doubt this team wants to start a rookie at CB besides Milliner, no matter how deep this draft is for CBs. History says that CBs outside of the top ten are almost always prone to struggling in their rookie year. Guys like Rhodes who are being drafted for their physical prowess as opposed to their technique are especially prone to struggling in that first year.
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I totally agree with making Green Bay an offer for Shields. He is just a young pup who would get better IMO with an increased role to a starter. He has flashed in Green Bay an I think could provide a bookend with Haden for 5 plus years. Know we don't have a second rnd pick , but time for F.O. To earn their checks and get a deal done. Am not fond of how secondary looks at this time. Scary.
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I totally agree with making Green Bay an offer for Shields. He is just a young pup who would get better IMO with an increased role to a starter. He has flashed in Green Bay an I think could provide a bookend with Haden for 5 plus years. Know we don't have a second rnd pick , but time for F.O. To earn their checks and get a deal done. Am not fond of how secondary looks at this time. Scary.
Problem is Green Bay probably thinks the exact same thing.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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I also agree with that, surely they would like to keep Shields as well, yet with Rogers and Clay and Rajis contracts needing done don't think they could afford to keep if we made solid offer.
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I also agree with that, surely they would like to keep Shields as well, yet with Rogers and Clay and Rajis contracts needing done don't think they could afford to keep if we made solid offer.
we have no 2nd round pick to give, i doubt they will go for anything else.
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Available free agent corners:
Quentin Jammer
DeAngelo Hall
Nnamdi Asomonga
Antoine Winfield
Sheldon Brown
Nate Clements
Tracy Porter
Shawntae Spencer
Cedric Griffin
Jacob Lacey
Rashean Mathis
Terrence McGee
Joselio Hanson
Mike Jenkins
Marcus Trufant
Will Allen
Stanford Routt
Brandon McDonald
A.J. Jefferson
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I would still make a run for Nnamdi.
Like a 1 or 2 year contract and worry about somebody permanent next year. Unless we act foolishly like some on here want us too we should still be in great salary cap shape next year as well.
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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Agreed with no 2nd seems impossible, and chances are realistically slim. Yet I pray that this F.O. has a plan for our lack of depth at db, cause right now I have both hands firmly on panic button and ready to push. I know we could draft a starter here but that is also crapshoot as to who will be there, an to how soon this rookie db,whoever it is, will be ready to be a starting cb in NFL. This is why IMO you push hard for shields and make your best effort or sign someone to step in to play in case rook not ready.
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I would still make a run for Nnamdi.
So would I.
Philadelphia constantly putting him in zone coverage killed him. Nnamdi's always been better in man coverage, especially now. Since Horton runs a lot of press man coverage, Nnamdi could possibly return to form here, or at least improve over his play with the Eagles.
The only problem is his age. It makes me reluctant to overpay him, and I think the Browns would have to overpay him drastically to lure him away from NO and SF. And while the Browns have a lot of cap space (as I've mentioned a million times on here), I shudder at just HOW much they'd have to overpay. Because after playing for the Raiders forever, and then the failed Dream Team, I'm pretty certain Nmamdi wants to win, hence him preferring NO and SF.
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Signing your #2 CB to a 5 million dollar contract makes things really difficult signing Joe Haden later.
I thought he went for a 1 year deal? I don't see how that would impact signing Haden. Although, it would put us back in this spot next year.
I thought cornerback was a spot we should have attacked early on. We had the cash, a whole crop of corners went early on reasonable deals. No idea why we would target a guy coming off a serious injury when there was plenty of healthy, young guys out there.
At least we signed those other cornerbacks to 1 year deals. We'll have some competition, and almost certainly an early draft pick at corner.
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Losing out on the Grimes sweepstakes blows...Next best option is Deangelo Hall who still is only 29...more of a playmaker vs cover corner...he did have that issue with the ref last year...but his coverage at the end of the year was actually very good as I remember it being announced...While Hall isnt a great corner...he's easily one of the best left...and he was always his teams #1 corner...he could perhaps be a semi elite #2 corner behind Haden...if memory serves me he's a rather weak tackler as a corner (a lot are) but not sure
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Signing your #2 CB to a 5 million dollar contract makes things really difficult signing Joe Haden later.
I thought he went for a 1 year deal? I don't see how that would impact signing Haden. Although, it would put us back in this spot next year.
I thought cornerback was a spot we should have attacked early on. We had the cash, a whole crop of corners went early on reasonable deals. No idea why we would target a guy coming off a serious injury when there was plenty of healthy, young guys out there.
At least we signed those other cornerbacks to 1 year deals. We'll have some competition, and almost certainly an early draft pick at corner.
Looking at the state of the Browns who are a year or two away from being relevant, who is worth spending money to get over drafting a CB? Note this is a strong year for DB's. Remember they can rollover cap into the next couple years, so it is not vital they spend it all now. Lastly, they are looking for a #2 CB who could step into a #1 roll IF they can't resign Haden. With Grimes, you are not sure he can play at his 2011 level.
Does it mater if it is 1 year? If a team is willing to pay an injured player to be a #2 five million, what do you think a healthy #1 will want for his services?
I guess I don't see where the Browns must invest so much in DB's. I also don't see it when your overall goal is pressuring the QB. There are not many teams who spend a lot getting two top corners.
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j/c
I've said it a dozen or more times this offseason - trade with Green Bay for Sam Shields. He's 25 with starting experience. While they tendered him at the 2nd round, I'd guess we could get him for less. Rumor was that they wanted Colt last year, how about Colt and a conditional (3-5) in 2014 based on both player's stats/snaps in 2013?
If Green Bay would trade Shields for McCoy, I might even give a 3rd .... or maybe a 4th and a 5th in addition to McCoy.
McCoy, right now, is a 6th wheel. He is added weight to lug around, but really serves no rational purpose. He is battling Thad Lewis for the 3rd/4th spot ..... until we draft another QB ..... at which time he could be fighting for 4th string, If we can turn him into value of any kind at all, I would do it.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns interview CB Brent Grimes.
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