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not sure what player otherwise I would have given names.this source(ibelieve part owner) said everybody would be fired and that the hiring of chip kelly was at best 50 percent I almost got scalped giving out that information.
than she told me that the browns were probably going to draft a guard.
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not sure what player otherwise I would have given names.this source(ibelieve part owner) said everybody would be fired and that the hiring of chip kelly was at best 50 percent I almost got scalped giving out that information.
than she told me that the browns were probably going to draft a guard.
None of that is exactly earth shattering news
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Unless he means we're going to draft a guard...at #6.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Unless he means we're going to draft a guard...at #6.
What a complete waste this would be. I generally like all the moves that the new frontoffice has made (I'm not so anti-Lombardi). If however, they draft a guard at 6 everything I liked about them will be washed away. The offensive line did not lose the Browns games last year in fact it was one of the higher ranked units. Now the rush stats were down but the featured RB had 2 broken ribs and was never fully healed.
I think the Browns are picking a defensive player or Geno Smith. Geno Smith is the top ranked QB and the front office has made it clear they want some competition for Weeden and they are working him out.
I think the Browns are trying to turn the defense into a young, athletic, attacking unit this year and will focus on offense next year. Whether they draft Milliner, can't have too many good corners with 4 and 5 wide WR sets, or a linebacker, I think the drafting of a linebacker gives the Browns crazy flexibility with formations and also is backup plan in case Sheard bombs at OLB.
WIth all that said if the Browns draft a guard at 6 the front office will undo all the good will they have generated from my perspective.
Go Browns!!![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/BrowniePoints/AndersonSnowPic.jpg)
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I agree.
It makes no sense to invest 3 first round picks plus a high 2nd and a 3rd into an OL. (at least while all are young players) You will never be able to keep that together long term.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't feel we overpaid for Kruger at all. Before FA began, I was hearing $10--12 million a year. Now, we sign him for less and people say we overpaid. 
I think people would be complaining if we went crazy in FA. We are playing it conservatively, so you complain about that.
We have such a loser mentality. It's aggravating.
I agree, but you have to understand that the majority of fans on these boards have never had a winning Browns team and the majority of their competitive sports involvement includes a video game.
It bugs them they can't "buy" a cheat code to finally beat the game.
I think it's the fact they go year in and year out with hopes and dreams that get crushed on an annual basis. It's enough to make anyone negative and very much of a skeptic.
JMHO
I started "listenining" to the browns in about oh say 1975, next to the radio with a home made pennant and 5 or six school chocolate milks(mom knew a guy)....
then howard cosell, tv, and stuff was cool in like 78 or so, (still choc milk)
then in the 80's and till now......i cried in my helmet at red right 88, ..then the drive , fumble, "new" team playoff "give up" at Pitt....the move the bottle gate.. yeah ive seen it all..and u know what i wouldn't miss it or the pain for anything.. this is the scar of a true browns fan... wear it proud and know we are getting better... we really are.....
a true fan is a fan at birth, and when they see any other helmet... they want to win... we are hurt... downtrodden, abused and like a kid at an old Nintendo we just keep hitting reset button and blowing into the old cartridge
i have moved to north Carolina now, been here for years to help a friend.. but i can tell you noting, not any stupid f.o, f.a, draft whatever move can tune down the flames of game day, no helmet , player, coach or color scheme can quench that thirst... that feeling in my heart on game day, or even watching old film... that's MY Cleveland browns , in awe
people around here think i am crazy, heck might be... but even with the panthers, they dont have IT, the "it" that comes from a true fan...yes there are a few. but i feel the pride of knowing the browns still historically are still one of the best winning teams ever.. anytime i like a game and i see the teams battle as knights
even the best game, isnt the best unless it's my browns
MY
browns, they are ours!
so i ask all true browns fans from adobe to afganistan... fear not from brazil to russia... if you were a fan when there was no football for us on sunday, years, the traffic returned the daily grind returned ... WITHOUT or steel tough knights, riding into battle
fear not, this team is becoming respectable ...but if you remember the dark years with no team
and like chocolate milk..
you will never give up, as the players don't , really..they dont
and always believe.. we are bound by birthright and tale .. to be kings again..
till then, .. honestly.... aint it a blast either way?!?!?!?
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No offense to anyone, but we probably should not be panicking about an internet rumor that wasn't very clear to begin with.
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No offense to anyone, but we probably should not be panicking about an internet rumor that wasn't very clear to begin with.
The one about Fred Davis?
or the one about the potential trade? (Weeden/Mallet)
or Desmond being sued and that is why he wasn't resigned?
or us privately working out Geno Smith?
idk so far just about every rumor we've read about has come true.
Meh.
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Are you trying to be funny? The rumor that was started by a poster about us drafting a guard and then another poster said as the 6th overall pick. You are giving credence to that? 
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Are you trying to be funny?
The rumor that was started by a poster about us drafting a guard and then another poster said as the 6th overall pick.
You are giving credence to that?
I didn't even read it because i couldn't take it seriously. I have been one of the "shore up the lines first" posters. I was ecstatic when we got JT. Big Mack and Schwartz. Our DL is now probably the deepest in the league.
I think we could get some gems for G's in the later rounds or sign one. I think we have 1 on the roster of the 2 that could turn out decent.
The other stuff that I asked questions about was legit in the media.
Meh.
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I'm still hoping we do something in the secondary, but this is getting frustrating.
We were thin at CB last year, now we've actually lost guys (Patterson, Brown). Its one obvious spot of need and we are worse off than we were last year!
We've seen this before with prior regimes (WR, FS). The couch potato fans sense big problems and the front office is sitting on millions.
**fingers crossed**
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I'm still hoping we do something in the secondary, but this is getting frustrating.
We were thin at CB last year, now we've actually lost guys (Patterson, Brown). Its one obvious spot of need and we are worse off than we were last year!
We've seen this before with prior regimes (WR, FS). The couch potato fans sense big problems and the front office is sitting on millions.
**fingers crossed**
Same here 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Everybody is, but you need to calm down and let the process work. Free agency has three phases. First you have the sellers market. You have the guys who have multiple bidders and can pick and choose. Then you have the fair market phase, which we are now entering. The big guys have been signed, now you have the left over good players who didn't get chased by multiple teams. Now these guys are going to readjust their sights and solid deals for all will be found. Then you have the buyers markket...the players who have yet to find a team and will work for league minimum or maybe slightly above. That phase starts in about 2 weeks and lasts until camps open. Let it play out. 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Everybody is, but you need to calm down and let the process work.
Free agency has three phases. First you have the sellers market. You have the guys who have multiple bidders and can pick and choose.
Then you have the fair market phase, which we are now entering. The big guys have been signed, now you have the left over good players who didn't get chased by multiple teams. Now these guys are going to readjust their sights and solid deals for all will be found.
Then you have the buyers markket...the players who have yet to find a team and will work for league minimum or maybe slightly above. That phase starts in about 2 weeks and lasts until camps open.
Let it play out.
+1
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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I didn't even read it because i couldn't take it seriously.
Oh.....never mind. LOL
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Thanks Peen, I couldn't have said it better myself.
#gmstrong
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Unless he means we're going to draft a guard...at #6.
That's fine. As long as they choose a Hall of Fame caliber Guard. You take a Guard that high in the draft he better be Mike Munchak or a Gene Upshaw. Nothing wrong with taking a HOF OG at #6. But you better not miss. The fans will be hanging you in effigy if you take a Guard that high and miss.
Last edited by Spiritbro77; 03/20/13 01:02 AM.
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
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You said a lineman said "everybody" gets cut at 30. My interpretation I guess is the same as Tabs.  Just wondering......
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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Unless he means we're going to draft a guard...at #6.
That's fine. As long as they choose a Hall of Fame caliber Guard. You take a Guard that high in the draft he better be Mike Munchak or a Gene Upshaw. Nothing wrong with taking a HOF OG at #6. But you better not miss. The fans will be hanging you in effigy if you take a Guard that high and miss.
With this roster in it's present configuration and state of flux I would consider it to be a great waste to take a guard at #6. The only way to justify that kind of selection would be to say that we have no other holes on this team and can afford such a luxury. Clearly, that statement doesn't represent this roster. Now if we decided to walk our way down the 1st round by acquiring pick after pick, perhaps it would be worthwhile, but it's hardly a given that we could accomplish that. It would still be a big reach to take a guard in the teens when neither of the top guards are considered HOF-caliber guys. For my money neither guy is as good as Iupati, and if you're not as good as that player, you're not worth drafting that early in the draft.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Well then that pretty much locks up Geno Smith at #6  
Eotab I think I would rather see Dee Milliner at 6 overall pick. QB class being weak this year I think we grab Dee and get two top CB's for year to come. and next year get a top QB if Weeden does not pan out. Like that Manziel kid for example.
I think CB, safety, and TE are our biggest needs at the moment
I bet you're wondering the samething I did, why O' why didn't I take the...blue pill
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With this roster in it's present configuration and state of flux I would consider it to be a great waste to take a guard at #6. The only way to justify that kind of selection would be to say that we have no other holes on this team and can afford such a luxury. Clearly, that statement doesn't represent this roster.
I agree with you 100%. But I want to put the best possible team on the field this year. I'm not sure the front office cares as much about 2013.
Their focus seems to be 2014 and beyond. Basing this on Haslam's comments (we're not going 13-3) the Dawson move, the lack of urgency at CB, FS, TE, and plans for 1/2 of our cap space to lay dormant. If they think Warmack would be a valuable piece for 2014 and beyond, I believe they would draft him at #6 regardless of how that leaves our secondary for 2013. Same with QB, whether that be pick #6 or the 3rd round.
Again, I agree with you. but not sure the front office cares about the 2013 holes as much as we do. These guys haven't been around for the years of pain that we have. An atrocious 2013 is only 1 bad year for them.
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Drafting a Guard high does little to help our cap going forward. It is extremely difficult to keep together a unit made up of all high round picks. If we did draft Warmack, then we would have Thomas, (1) Warmack, (1Z) Mack, (1) Schwartz, (high 2nd) and whichever 3rd rounder was left to play the other Guard spot.
We have 2 OL coaches on this team. We need to develop Guards instead of using high draft picks to find guys to play Guard.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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People talk about Warmack the same way they did about DeCastro last draft. Warmack's problem is that he's a G-only, he won't EVER play C or OT and I have my doubts he's athletic enough to play LG in the NFL....DeCastro has the same problem, they're both RGs only imho, and those are dime a dozen. Half the Gs in the NFL are former College OTs...have you ever thought about why?
Cooper has much more value for a team needeing an interior OL and Warford later represents much better value than Warmack.
All that said, we have 4 young Gs...OL, especially interior OL is a position where you need a little time to get better. Who the hell knew Vasquez before this season? He was a Lauvao-like dime a dozen G his first 2-3 years, no kidding. Do you know why Greco looked the best of our Gs? It's not because he has the most talent, or he wouldn't have been cut by the Rams of all teams...it's because he was the most experienced. Interior OL get better with time, this isn't rocket science...Greco, Pinkston and Lauvao have shown that they belong in that league, now leave them alone and let them get better together...
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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1. Geno Smith is not my pick...trying to predict the guys who picks what they are picking. Me its Ansah, Millner one of them two.
2. Sorry the we'll get a QB next year premise is not a good strategy (never give up the bird in hand for the two in the bush) my point is at #4 we could not move up (offering 3 first round picks) just two slots to get a shot at THE 2nd QB in the draft.
We might not be SB bound but I can pretty much guarantee we will not be picking in the top 5 next year. If we LOVE (not me nor you WE = Chud/Norv/Banner/Lombardi ) Geno we would be fools to not take him in lieu of a better QB NEXT YEAR.
3. OL no way at #6. Btw - Banner has been very revealing n true to his word. In his presser a while ago he pretty much said that we have followed somebody that has risen in the boards from the defense n don't be surprised if that is who we end up taking....this was around a month ago. I did get excited for Ansah but it could be a FS or CB (not Millner) or the DT from UCLA (forgot his name). OG has dropped (Warmack)
Ok if we drop back a couple of times accruing draft picks I can see us taking an OG Cooper or Warmack! Outside of that NO NO WAY. If Warmack showed us he was Special like no OG before him type of special. But his Combine output was not good. Why would the Shorts Olympics like 40 mean something to OL???
Simple...its about evaluating the film but then evaluating if that domination can be transitioned to the NFL. NFL is speed, speed, speed! If Warmack showed us like 4.95 speed n better 10 yd n 20 yd speed along with Explosion (vertical leap) then we are looking at somebody who can bring that domination to the NFL...but he went in the opposite direction and why he dropped off the map on Everyones board.
Draft nicks Boards don't count. But if you notice they ALL (including Kiper n everyone) Change - same guys - no games played. Yet it is different...WHY these guys all have feelers out there on how the NFL GUYS VALUE these draft picks...so the closer to the draft they get a better read how the NFL guys Value the prospects in whole not inside info as in this team WILL PICK THIS GUY...but a better read how the NFL grades certain prospects. Why Kipers Days before the draft last MOCK is so much more accurate then his MOCK #1. Not knowledge on who will pick who...but more on lets say guys taking 20-32 on their top 10 grades/values them™they find out cause its not secret info. This is my observation not fact but I betcha I'm pretty close 
Oh n back to the thread...lol 
NFL Network just had a piece in depth on the Broncos. 2011 NO FA wanted to come to Denver (the key that they have interest) even if Denver showed interest. 2012 n especially 2013 cause they got Payton...FA interest has jumped off the boards.
In 2013 they said EVERYONE they targeted came to Denver n signed...Everyone except one n they don't know why??? Mendenhall RB - Everyone else they got to visit n signed them. Cause of Denver? Elway? - no Payton legitimize their team.
Well I see the Browns as the 2011 Denver...I think we wanted a FA CB but none came here except one Grimes, n he left (never a good sign) . We have spent half of our Cap Room this year n Banner stated we will spend the rest next year so that it has some balance of when contracts stop n Cap Room comes back to them. Again a big key is Weeden (or if we go w/Geno on him) We HAVE TO HAVE TO establish a Franchise QB is here! If we do...we can get the PICK of the LITTER in certain areas next year. Also indicative of this fact - Redskins as soon as it was known they locked up the deal for RG3...top WR FA flocked to them.
JMHO - unfortunately there were some guys we wanted - who just didn't eve want to say "  " to us!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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YTown, I've always felt that we shouldn't put all of our eggs in one basket, especially w/all of our holes. Based on our needs and foundation, I wouldn't draft a guard at #6.
But I don't see the salary cap problem. I Keep hearing about it, but we've been way under the cap 3 years straight. We haven't overspent in free agency, we don't have a lengthy list of bad contracts. We should have no problem retaining the talent we have. If we're staying $15 million under the cap so we can "build through the draft" we shouldn't worry about drafting a guy based on his potential 2017 contract.
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The problem comes where we aren't a team in complete rebuild mode, and the contacts we have been accumulating over the past 3 years start coming up to free agency.
We can burn through a lot of cash resigning guys over the next several years, and then we have to decide whether or not a G is worth resigning. Look at the Saints with Nicks. Great Guard. Couldn't afford to resign him because they originally got him cheap, but when he developed into a top end Guard, they could no longer afford him.
Plus, right now we don't have a franchise level QB to worry about resigning. Will Weeden develop into that? Who knows? Let's play a game and imagine that he does.Now you need somewhere in the range of $10-$15 million per year for the QB.
Most teams can only afford to commit so many present, and future cap dollars to certain positions. Most teams aren't going to pay a kicker or punter a lot of money. Most won't pay a FB much more than the minimum. Tackles will almost always make more than Guards. DL in the 4-3 will generally make more than LB .... and LB in the 3-4 will generally make more than the DL. (although it can be more even in the 3-4)
Teams have to not only look at present day dollars, but also future dollars committed to certain players at certain positions. It's why you almost never used to see a TE or S go top 10 in the draft. The value just wasn't there .... especially in the days of runaway rookie deals. Now that aspect had settled down somewhat, but the simple truth remains that a team cannot build one unit with all of its 1st round picks at the expense of other units. This team needs play makers ...... real difference makers ... on both sides of the ball. It doesn't need a body in the trenches.
Plus, DJ did a nice job of further expounding on the whole Guard equation above.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't disagree with any of that, YTown. The part at the end especially. Like I said, from a needs/foundation standpoint guard is not my pick. Diversify, for sure.
But, corners and edge rushers get mega-pay days. If they think Milliner is a shutdown corner, take him regardless of how hard it will be to keep him and Haden down the road. Same with an edge rusher. If anyone plays well enough to get that mega-deal, that means we got several great years out of them. And that has to be our draft goal.
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In today's NFL you need at least 4 or 5 capable corners. Too many teams throw 4-5 receiver sets at a defense to try and get by with less.
2 Pro Bowl level corners would be difficult to resign/keep at the same time, but we would have Haden into his 2nd deal when Milliner would come up for his resigning. (assuming we can resign Haden) Haden would probably get a 5 year deal, and that would take him to 2020, if I am not mistaken. Milliner would have a rookie deal for 4 years with a team option for a 5th year. That would put them together till at least 2018.
Corners are definitely a position you can never have too many of, and I think that you always want to try and have a couple of very good ones in the system. Staggering them out like we could with a Haden/Milliner pairing would work out nicely for the cap, as well as for our defense.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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