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LOGIC" ??? "GAMBLE" ???
Yes, exactly....
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Do you really think it was by design/plan ergo "Logic" - We know some FA just don't want to talk to teams...usually the top tier. We know if they do n are interested a visit is involved. All I got out of this FA period was NO Logical plan that we are doing or not doing regarding CBs. I see NO INTEREST in OUR TEAM for a couple of reasons.
Let's be honest here. Kruger was a very hot commodity. with Horton running this D, we had no problem signing a top FA.
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1. The obvious System/Coach/FO/heck even Owner Turnover
So why would a highly sought after guy like Kruger sign? 2+2 do not equal 6.
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2. Haden has the #1 CB position locked up. A lot of these guys don't wish to go to a team that doesn't need that #1 guy. They know when the cap hits the fan as the #2 they won't last long n see the length of the contract.
I can't believe you can seriously even consider posting this. We will be in a heavy style of attacking D. If they get to the QB, fine. If they don't, your CB's must be good!
But I see it a lot on this board. People talk about #1 CB and #2 CB, like they are RB's or QB's. They're not! You need two #1 CB's. Are you going to put your #2 CB on Roddy White or Julio Jones?
Let's be real here, there are 2 starting CB's, not 1.
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All I got is ONE FA CB Grimes that visited - WHY if our PLAN was not to go after a FA CB Why oh WHY would we bring one in here hoping to sign him??? 
It's called putting all of your eggs in one basket. Often not a sound strategy. But we'll see. Most everyone knows signing FA's is about the $$$$. Some very good ones went reasonable. If you wanted one of them all you had to do is pay one of them. It's just that simple.
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So I don't think it was remotely a PLAN in this FA market to ignore CBs.
That's a funny thing, because I've seen many posters, who I happen to agree with, that plainly state there aren't excuses for landing most all FA's. Why? Because it's about the $$$.
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Hand in hand...I don't think this remotely was a Gamble as in we chose this fate as in a strategy. It just is what it is...
Btw...can anyone tell me if Grimes signed yet with anyone? Nah just checked he's still available.
Well let's hope that one guy who visited, that one guy who visited and isn't signed, just so happens to end up in 1 of 32 places. Here.
Now we can all make excuses and throw out some wild speculation to try to muddy the waters here. But if the money is right, they will come. Now if it was on O, I might see your point. the QB situation is very murky.
But on D? Kruger is solid proof we could sign top tier FA's. But when you only have one CB visit and seemingly target that one exclusively, well it's not that hard to figure out once you let the water clear from all of the mud thrown in it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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All you got is Kruger in a CB discussion.
Kruger came here...you saw how many CBs come here? Same as Kruger - Grimes but he didn't sign.
Sorry, I ain't buying  Got to run so don't worry if I don't respond till tomorrow but not much else to say.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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He's depth
j/c We don't need any more depth; we need starters!!! 
Yes, it seems like we have "depth" all over at the CB position. This is much a do over nothing. But hey, he may be some slight upgrade in depth.
I guess we'll see but hopefully they aren't "counting" on Milner to be there. That's just way too much of a gamble to take at a much needed position.
As I have said many time before, you don't just build a roster from the top down. Doing so from the bottom up is just as important. This kid is a middle of the roster guy. It doesn't bother me at all. Good signing IMO.
Like I said somewhere else, really good corners aren't let go or go untagged. It just doesn't happen.
The fact is maybe we can't rebuild the roster in one off season. As I see it, no matter if it was these guys or Heckert in control, we'd still need corners and not many are to be had.
Would it make everybody feel better if we put Sheldon Brown back on the payroll?
And think....a few years ago people were moaning we selected Joe Haden with out first pick. At least by drafting him people can see how important corners are to a football team. IMO, in todays game, the most important position.(on defense)
It's the only position on the team you can't really touch your guy to get your job done.
It's a hard position to play and few and far between can do it well, as shown by what the good ones get paid.
Last edited by Ballpeen; 03/22/13 07:08 PM.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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You just named All-Pro, HoF and GOAT caliber guys to prove your point.
Fail.
What was my point?
Smurf effectiveness
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If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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What do I know about Chris OWens nothing nada, zero, zilch, however I will trust the front office until they prove me wrong. As much as I think Lombardi doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground, and as much as I think Banner knows less than Lombardi I am going to trust these guys picks until they are proven wrong.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Seems like a good kid. Good pickup.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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He's depth
j/c We don't need any more depth; we need starters!!!
Just a note here folks. We're going to be pass rushing better than we did last year (or so it would seem). These kind of fast corners are coverage guys looking to get the easy pick thrown by a QB with a blitzing LB in his face.
I'm not upset with anyone that they bring in.
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What do I know about Chris OWens nothing nada, zero, zilch, however I will trust the front office until they prove me wrong. As much as I think Lombardi doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground, and as much as I think Banner knows less than Lombardi I am going to trust these guys picks until they are proven wrong.
I'd feel a lot better if I knew for sure that Chud, Turner and Horton were included in the discussion on players. I mean I recognize that it's Lombardi and Banners job to make the final picks, but if I were in the GM role, I'd want my coaches to be in agreement. I'd want their buy in on a guy.
But that's just me..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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They have told us it is going to be a group decision. I would assume the group includes a coach or two.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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They have told us it is going to be a group decision. I would assume the group includes a coach or two.
I hope so as well.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I think the amount of input that coaches have in regards to personnel decisions is greater than a lot of people think it is. There's a reason that certain coaches always seem to have talent-deficient squads and others always seem to have loads of overachievers.
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Not a fan of shorties in this day and age. I hope he works out.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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Just a general type response ..... Supposedly, Grimes is going to make a decision over the course of the next couple of days. Cleveland Browns sign TE Kellen Davis, DB Chris Owens; LB Victor Butler to visit Sunday | cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss..._special-reportThe Browns are also keeping former Falcons cornerback Brent Grimes, Owens' ex-teammate, very much on the frontburner. Grimes, who visited the Browns last Saturday, is expected to make a decision in the next few days, with opportunities to sign with the Browns, Falcons, and possibly the Dolphins. The Browns thought so much of Grimes that they sent a private jet to pick him up, along with his wife and son. Grimes, 29, enjoyed his visit here with coach Rob Chudzinski and defensive coordinator Ray Horton, and the Browns are believed to be a viable option.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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You just named All-Pro, HoF and GOAT caliber guys to prove your point.
Fail.
What was my point?
Smurf effectiveness
Very Good!
Smurfs can play against big receives too. The so call, HOF list was nearly pointing out tall receivers were known back in the day. Teams used smaller DB's to compete against tall. By the way, list of receivers were leads in 1989 one of the years Dixon and Minnefield played.
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The Browns thought so much of Grimes that they sent a private jet to pick him up, along with his wife and son. Grimes, 29, enjoyed his visit here with coach Rob Chudzinski and defensive coordinator Ray Horton, and the Browns are believed to be a viable option.
Thanks for the report.
Man, I hope so. We really do need a corner and Grimes is a very good one--provided he is healthy.
Pit------you bash everything we do. Everything! We haven't even played a game yet, and all you do is bash, bash, bash the new guys. Just wondering, do you think H and H would have solved the CB position by now? After all, they were always so active in FA, right?
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ANYONE THINK MAYBE we signed one of Grimes teammates just to try to get him to come here?
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There is a very recent video of a Grimes workout where he looks pretty darn healthy. Running, jumping cutting etc.
If Grimes doesn't end up here, it'll be because HE chose not to come - not because we didn't want him.
This Owens signing may help swing him. And if we get Grimes, I'd call this a pretty good FA period all of a sudden. This would free us up to pick BPA and a better position to trade for a 2nd and stiil get impact.
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Just a general type response .....
Supposedly, Grimes is going to make a decision over the course of the next couple of days.
Cleveland Browns sign TE Kellen Davis, DB Chris Owens; LB Victor Butler to visit Sunday | cleveland.com
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss..._special-report
The Browns are also keeping former Falcons cornerback Brent Grimes, Owens' ex-teammate, very much on the frontburner. Grimes, who visited the Browns last Saturday, is expected to make a decision in the next few days, with opportunities to sign with the Browns, Falcons, and possibly the Dolphins.
The Browns thought so much of Grimes that they sent a private jet to pick him up, along with his wife and son. Grimes, 29, enjoyed his visit here with coach Rob Chudzinski and defensive coordinator Ray Horton, and the Browns are believed to be a viable option.
I think grimes will return to the falcons...if not then he will go to Miami who has made huge improvements so far.
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I have a feeling that Grimes is gonna wind up in Cleveland ....... but what do I know?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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He's depth
j/c We don't need any more depth; we need starters!!!
Yes, it seems like we have "depth" all over at the CB position. This is much a do over nothing. But hey, he may be some slight upgrade in depth.
I guess we'll see but hopefully they aren't "counting" on Milner to be there. That's just way too much of a gamble to take at a much needed position.
we cut Dmitrii Patterson. I see him as Dmitrii's replacement. so, he is needed depth.
Maybe the plan is two fold. If Milliner is there. Take him. If not, trade back a few spots and grab Rhodes.
I assume there will be at least one LT and probably Gino there at 6. Someone will give us something to be able to get them.
If Gino is still on the board at #6 the Browns better turn in their draft card pronto. I know many are not high on this years QB class, but I see Gino as the exception. I think this kid is the real deal. He may not quite be RG3 or Newton, however he is "close" very, very close...Gino is the kinda guy that may turn this whole thing around for us.
He may be a better runner then RG3...that's up for debate. He also has a pretty good arm....he would add a whole new dimension to this O, and Chud worked with a simlair QB in Carolina named Cam Newton.
I wonder if the Browns are just playing cold on the Gino thing to not tip their hand to the rest of the league...showing more interest in CB, etc as to try and bluff other teams from not trading up in front of us.
I would dance in the streets if we take Gino....I think he is the kinda guy that could be the stepping stone to really start turing things around here...our QB play has been awful the last few years, and I think Gino comes in day one and changes that....the guy is a playmaker....imagine having Trich and Gino on the same team....wow.....our O could be scary....
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First .... just a question ...... as someone once asked me ..... if you pimp a guy, shouldn't you know how to spell his name?
The more I think about Geno Smith, the less I want any part of him high in the draft.
He started out the year like a house on fire. He threw 24 TD and no INT against Marshall, James Madison, Maryland, Baylor, and Texas. None of these teams were defensive powerhouses. Maryland was probably the best defense out of the bunch.
Then he played Texas Tech and Kansas State. The Mountaineers scored a whopping 14 points in each of these games.
I like some of his game, but he needs rebuilt as an NFL QB. he would have to play almost exclusively from the shotgun, as his footwork sucks. He often throws off his back foot. His mechanics are really spotty. His accuracy is OK, but certainly nothing special. He misses his throws high too often, and high throws are interceptions in the NFL.
He might want to add weight to his frame to last in the NFL. He does have a big enough frame to do so though. His arm is strong enough, but certainly not an elite arm.
I worry whether or not he has the mental toughness to handle turning around a bad team. Almost every scouting report I have read mentioned this as a major factor/negative. I only saw 2 or 3 WV games this year .... but when almost everyone says that a guy is mentally weak, and gets down (and stays down) when things go wrong ......... well that's a heavy concern.
All that said, I do think that there is some potential for Geno Smith in the NFL ..... but I don't believe that he will be a guy who comes in and starts, and performs at a high level, from day 1. He's nowhere near an Andrew Luck or an RG3. He needs heavy work.
Frankly, I don't see much more in him than I see in Weeden. Both guys need work ..... the biggest difference being that Smith would require us to use the 6th overall pick to take him. I think that's way, way too high .....
Frankly, IMHO, this is not a good year to be holding a high draft pick and also need a QB.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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He may be a better runner then RG3...that's up for debate.
It is?
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He's black. He can clearly only be similar to RGIII or Cam Newton!
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
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Pit------you bash everything we do. Everything! We haven't even played a game yet, and all you do is bash, bash, bash the new guys. Just wondering, do you think H and H would have solved the CB position by now? After all, they were always so active in FA, right?
Actually I don't. I feel this FO fielded a very good coaching staff. While I do believe it may have been partly due to default because other targets decided to go elsewhere, in the end I feel we got the very best guys that were interviewed for the jobs.
And I'm not about revisionist history. Actually, it's the failure of past regimes, including H&H that make me very leery of any new FO. We've had people come in here with good credentials fail time after time. So while you may see me as having a target at this FO specifically that's not the case.
I would be just as leery, cynical, and overly cautious in evaluating any new FO or owner at this stage of the game. I've been fooled too many times in the past. Every time any of us have went "the benefit of the doubt" mode since 99, we've all been very disappointed.
If that's the road you choose to travel, then so be it. You'll have to excuse me that I've actually learned my lesson from recent history. I see nothing in this FO's resume' that leads me to believe they're as, or any more qualified than previous regimes that have failed us as fans so far.
As to what H&H may have or have not done, that has no bearing on this regime. They are no longer here and did not provide a winning product. So if you're saying this regime is doing the same thing they would have done, what exactly does that tell us about the new regime?
Something very new has happened. CB's that were at least average or above went much cheaper than just a few years ago. You are welcome to look that up if you like. We are down to only one legit. one left on the market because we did not persue more for visits.
Now if that pans out, or we land Millner in the draft, their plan will work. If not, they avoided a very obvious and real issue that needed to be addressed. What past regimes would have done means nothing at this juncture because they all failed. Saying it would have been no different with H&H? Then aren't you saying this regime isn't any smarter in addressing glaring needs than they were?
And BTW- We don't have nearly as many glaring needs now as we did when H&H got here to fill.
So n o, I'm judging this regime on their moves, not previous regimes moves. And when I see similarities, it tells me we're just as likely to fail now as we did in the past. If that annoys you, I guess you'll just have to suck it up.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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j/c
As usual there is a lot of vigorous discussion on a wide range of topics. Here's my take on a number to the issues rasied.
Big CB's are still a rarity in this league not exactly sure how tall Owens is but under 6ft guys are common in this league. Unless you're Seattle.
For whatever reason the front office did not aggressively pursue secondary personnel during FA. Getting a decent player, like Owens, who can play nickle and be a spot starter is at least acceptable. How can you be dismissive about depth for a team notorious for not having any? Obviously they (FO) intend on doing something else.
Speaking of something else, I've made no secret I prefer another front 7 player if they stay at 6. I think the CB pool is deep this year and a very good player could be had in the thrid. I value unrelenting pressure over pass coverage. I hope Horton does too, but who knows.
I could understand taking a CB in round 1 following a trade down and adding another pick. For example trading with Miami and then taking Rhodes would be a very good move particularly if we can get one of their two 2's (some have suggested a 3rd round pick which would be ok but not great).
Last edited by guard dawg; 03/23/13 01:03 PM.
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There is a very recent video of a Grimes workout where he looks pretty darn healthy. Running, jumping cutting etc.
If Grimes doesn't end up here, it'll be because HE chose not to come - not because we didn't want him.
This Owens signing may help swing him. And if we get Grimes, I'd call this a pretty good FA period all of a sudden. This would free us up to pick BPA and a better position to trade for a 2nd and stiil get impact.
+1 agree 100%...now let's get him inked 
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jc
This signing really spells trouble for Skrine, who did indeed show he was truly an exploit for an offense to take advantage of when Haden underwent his suspension for Adderrall. Skrine got torched, badly too. Guess the front office also doesn't have much faith in Wade either. IMO Ownens may not be the best option for a starting combo with Haden. He is maybe an upgrade at the nickel over Skrine/Wade and a depth move.
Now like everyone has been saying, if they can ink up Grimes. Now we are just need a safety and some LB help and the defense could be extremely lethal in all faucets.
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Here we go again
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And I'm not about revisionist history. Actually, it's the failure of past regimes, including H&H that make me very leery of any new FO. We've had people come in here with good credentials fail time after time. So while you may see me as having a target at this FO specifically that's not the case.
All right, I apologize.
I certainly understand that line of thinking and kinda feel the same way myself. You and I go way back, and I'll tell you, Pit------it was hard for me to even watch the game this past year. I hated wasting 3 hours on crap football and I couldn't wait until the game was over. I only watched them out of some sort of distorted sense of loyalty.
Heck, I don't know if the new guys are going to be good or not. With our luck, they probably won't be. I'm just HOPING they will be and I will at least give some time before I go nuts bashing them.
Anyway, no hard feelings--I hope. Take care, Dawg.
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...I will at least give some time before I go nuts bashing them.
Dang! By that time I'll probably come around to like them, and then we can start knocking heads all over again...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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There is a very recent video of a Grimes workout where he looks pretty darn healthy. Running, jumping cutting etc.
If Grimes doesn't end up here, it'll be because HE chose not to come - not because we didn't want him.
This Owens signing may help swing him. And if we get Grimes, I'd call this a pretty good FA period all of a sudden. This would free us up to pick BPA and a better position to trade for a 2nd and stiil get impact.
+1 agree 100%...now let's get him inked
If there's fire with all the smoke I'm smelling on Facebook, we're cosing in on Grimes & a 2 year deal...
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Really? That would be freaking HUGE!!!! I've wanted this guy all along---provided he was healthy. I still wanna hear about his health, but man........that would be awesome!
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jc
man signing Grimes would really give us flexability on draft day
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059 |
Are you inferring that signing a top notch starting CB would allow us to draft...Geno Smith, QB?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,856
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,856 |
well that wouldn't be my first choice  but yeah removing that glaring needof a CB would allow that:... or.... (hopefully) trade down.
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 |
This Owens? Is he Hank Poteat Or Davin Holley  ? another thought. They sent that dreaded Cleveland Browns private jet to Grimes huh? Well it didn't work for the coach now in Philadelphia, in fact, I don't think it's worked anytime it's been mentioned, at least in memory.  What happened? What happened to the Browns roster, (again), we see more roster turnover than a bad place to work in which the area is undesireable. Do we seriously have to remember the good ole days of having Smelley and the black sheep Gronkowski brother at tight end. Or Sheldon Brown covering the alternate side wideout? We've got to figure it out. We're used to it. I knew Martin Rucker leaving would backfire. What was/is so wrong with Alex Smith? Where is Evan Moore, and Where is he again? If it all wasn't so sad it'd be funny. I mean the other way around.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
Is a 5-11 team having turnover REALLY the worst thing?
You're losing backups on a 5-11 team. Calm down.
Evan Moore? Really? Because obviously he's lighting up the league since he left... If he's still in it.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,204
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,204 |
Quote:
Really? That would be freaking HUGE!!!! I've wanted this guy all along---provided he was healthy. I still wanna hear about his health, but man........that would be awesome!
this.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns sign cornerback Chris Owens
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