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Cool, just wanted to set the record str8 anyway. 
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.) ![[Linked Image from i87.photobucket.com]](http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k155/brownsfan4173/NFL-Football.jpg)
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Cool, just wanted to set the record str8 anyway.
Pun intended?
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Wow,...I really hate to get in the middle of all of this, but most of you know I am a retired Marine Officer,...that means a whole lot of nothing to a lot of folks on this board, and some to some. I don't care whether anyone ever respects what I say/write or not. I spent a lifetime defending your right to be that way, and that's where I come from. That's also why you'll never read that I have ever belittled anyone on this board, outside of an obviously raw joke/prank. Respecting people and who they are is what makes Marine Corps leadership special.
Every policy and law has its exceptions and adversity. For the Corps to suffer negative vibes on new policy--whatever it is--is another way for the leftist liberal media to strike at not only the world's finest fighting force, but perhaps our Nation's best ogranization, man-for- man, period.
I do not have a tattoo. Have always wanted one. Have the wife after me to get one. The rule that always overtakes me is, the law of common sense. You have to think about how much LESS a Marine I appear to be to you, than the one who's character is never in question because they don't have a tattoo. It's a matter of "level" and "caste." You either have a tattoo that is appropriate and cannot distract from the individual uniform, or you don't.
I served with the current Commandant when he wasa LtCol, about 15 years ago. He doesn't make these kinds of rules to tick people off or effuse himself with undeserved aggrandizement. He does so in the BEST INTERESTS of the Corps. If you don't like it,....serve somewhere else.
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Cool, just wanted to set the record str8 anyway.
Pun intended?
Probably 
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If you don't like it,....serve somewhere else.
Unfotunately, that is what just may happen in a time when we need every Marine we can get.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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How true,...there is a letter out urging every retiree to do whatever he can to help the Corps meet its new authorized strength goals.
If you got a tattoo that I deem inappropriate, you won't get my time. I believe that's how the Commandant would want it.
Next question,...does our society want to use Government money to pay for tattoo removal for those "few good men" who otherwise prove they have the guts and wherewithal to become Marines ??? Or, do we just want to let the Marines go about doing business they way they have been for 232 years.
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Yes, also there is a letter out there from the Commandant of the Marine Corps asking any Marine that is currently thinking of getting out to reconsider. I read it a little over a month ago. It was a well written letter, almost makes you think as you are reading it that he wrote it to you. Bottom line, they want to increase the force, then at the same time, they pile on more and more BS. Its getting so bad now, I know guys with 12, 15, 16 years in, that are getting out because of the daily influx of BS. This tattoo thing is just the latest installment.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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does our society want to use Government money to pay for tattoo removal for those "few good men" who otherwise prove they have the guts and wherewithal to become Marines ??? Or, do we just want to let the Marines go about doing business they way they have been for 232 years.
Well as a tax payer, I say to hell with paying for tattoo removal. But its a mute point really. If you have a young man with to many tattoo's for the Marine Corps liking, I would guestimate that less that 1% would even consider having the tattoo removal done. They got and paid for their tattoo's for a reason. They will just as well move on and find another job with less tringent restrictions.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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Actually, there has always been a lot of "BS." It's all about the character of the man (person) who elects to put up with it. My guess is it's better today than it was yesterday (I got out in 93) and I'm here to tell you, it's better IN THERE than is it OUT HERE, because all these morons out here want to do is rip their companies off for as much free time and "bennies" as they can get without ever having to pay ANY price like that a U.S. serviceman does (No matter how you measure it, economically, socially, emotionally or otherwise.)
Anyway, this reinforcement of a long-standing policy against tattoos is only another rung on the ladder of your Corps' speaking out against society's acceptance of behavior deemed inappropriate. Maybe the timing is bad, but I stand with the Commandant, and any so-called Marine who runs out to get a new one so he can "buck the establishment" before the deadline is not someone I want my taxpayer money wasted on.
To my knowledge the Corps is the ONLY branch of the service that disdains the wearing of an earring on liberty. Used to be in my day anyway, hope it still is.
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To my knowledge the Corps is the ONLY branch of the service that disdains the wearing of an earring on liberty. Used to be in my day anyway, hope it still is.
Yes it is. Officially.
Being a Marine. You gotta ask yourself...
About the tattoo issue...
What would Chesty think? I of course couldn't put words in his mouth, but I am sure I know what he would have to say.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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My guess is Chesty probably had his share of tattoos,....the RIGHT ones in the RIGHT places.
Personally, I always kinda wanted a bulldog on my bicep,....
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You should get it. Whats stopping you? Your retired and it is easily covered where you said you want it.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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I guess the answer is, and this is the whole thing with a tattoo,....do I really need one to aggrandize myself as a Marine ?? Would I be doing it for ME, or for the Corps.
I bleed Marine green in everything I think, do, and say, pretty much like being a bleeding Orange Browns fan,....I don't need a tatto to feel any of either in my heart.
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This is just B.S. What's next, is the government gonna tell the marines that fought in past wars from a long time ago that they have to have theirs lasered off to keep with our new spit and shine look? What the hell is going on anymore?
How in the world can you fix something...
If you don't know how it's supposed to work?
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This really isn't as big an infringement on personal rights as some are making it out to be.
Those of you who have never been, need to understand, Marines who did fight in past wars are the subject of revererance and honor to current Marines. No one is going to tell a former Marine to remove a tattoo by laser. You just have to realize, taking one on in adamant defiance of standard rules and regulations is considered blasphemous behavior by some Marines, and particularly DISHONORS that previous service in war you speak of. This is not a case of your "government" telling the Corps what to do,...it is a case of its Commandant reinforcing an age-old policy through standardization. It's the kind of discipline your society expects of its Marines. Don't like it, or can't put up with it,...?? Go serve in another branch. (No offense to all you other vets out there,...)
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Once you sign those enlistment papers,you are U.S. government property. That's the reality of it and what you agree to. Defaming government property is illegal. Plain and simple. In the past,it's been sometimes enforced and sometimes not. But it's their right to enforce it and your duty not to defame their property,which you are upon signing those enlistment papers. It pays to read the fine print sometimes.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I never considered myself "property;" there are a great deal of legal rights and representation due servicemen--no one's constitutional privileges are completely stripped,...HOWEVER there are definite lines drawn about what you can and cannot do, how you can and cannot act, and some of those lines step very close to constitutionally guaranteed rights, and that's where you see violations of policies and procedures tried by military justice as " prejudicial to the best interests of the service, " or " in the maintenance of good order and discipline. "
In the sense of "property" though I would agree, I definitely "belonged" to the Corps.
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Once you sign those enlistment papers,you are U.S. government property. That's the reality of it and what you agree to. Defaming government property is illegal. Plain and simple. In the past,it's been sometimes enforced and sometimes not.
But it's their right to enforce it and your duty not to defame their property,which you are upon signing those enlistment papers. It pays to read the fine print sometimes.
Actually it's DEFACE not defame. 2 different meanings.
In the Army it's a punishable offense for getting tattoos. (or at least it was when I was in.) But I do believe that once you get to your PDS then it all depends upon your command.
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Its absolutely legal in the Navy with a couple of areas of the body being exceptions.
Can not have a tattoo above your neckline to include the head and face.
Can not have a tattoo below your wrists.
CAN have tattoo's anywhere else. However if it is visable in uniform, must not be sexist or rasist etc.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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Its absolutely legal in the Navy with a couple of areas of the body being exceptions.
Can not have a tattoo above your neckline to include the head and face.
Can not have a tattoo below your wrists.
CAN have tattoo's anywhere else. However if it is visable in uniform, must not be sexist or rasist etc.
Thats another funny thing. Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines each have their own DIFFERENT standards, but yet we are all US servicemen and women, each falling under the same UCMJ, but what is "criminal" for one serviceman may not be for another....
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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JC..seems to me a big to do about a little thing. How far have we come as a nation where this even becomes news. Imagine if this rule were put in place in the 50's or 60's. Do you think it would even have been mentioned in print ? I personally am of the opinion that you join, you know the rules, you follow them, end of story. When I was in the Army I had the chance to train with the British Paras a few times and a more colorfully tattoed bunch you simply won't find outside of a biker bar. Great soldiers but colorful in more ways than one . I am amazed that in all of the tattoo parlors I have been in I am still ink free.
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I personally am of the opinion that you join, you know the rules, you follow them, end of story.
So am I. But they keep changing the rules.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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Imagine if this rule were put in place in the 50's or 60's. Do you think it would even have been mentioned in print ?
Probably not. But in the 50's or 60's the only people that had tattoo's were prisoners and Sailors (generally speaking). Today, if you go anywhere, and actually take notice, there are probably more inked people than not from the ages of 18 to 40.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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Quote:
Quote:
Its absolutely legal in the Navy with a couple of areas of the body being exceptions.
Can not have a tattoo above your neckline to include the head and face.
Can not have a tattoo below your wrists.
CAN have tattoo's anywhere else. However if it is visable in uniform, must not be sexist or rasist etc.
Thats another funny thing. Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines each have their own DIFFERENT standards, but yet we are all US servicemen and women, each falling under the same UCMJ, but what is "criminal" for one serviceman may not be for another....
rules are rules and they are different city by city state by state...
j/c on this part
Maybe we should tell them to stop shining their shoes, stop tucking in their shirts and stop ironing their clothes b/c they are sacrificing so much for our country. GMAB.
They have a similar standard that almost every professional workplace does not allow. I can tell you not one person with a clearly visible tattoo would be allowed to work at my company. The military often says that they turn boys into men and they prepare them for life outside the military. If they allow them to get tats in a conspicious place then that would hurt their chances to get a professional job in many companies. They are helping them in the long run. JMHO
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Maybe we should tell them to stop shining their shoes, stop tucking in their shirts and stop ironing their clothes b/c they are sacrificing so much for our country. GMAB.
LMAO. Obviously you aren't in the loop.
1. They stopped shining their shoes a few years ago when they switched to tan suede boots.
2. You do not "tuck in" the combat utility uniform (cami's).
3. The combat utility uniform is dry and wear, no ironing involved.
So GMAB.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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you were missing the point........ and yes their combat uniform would not require dry cleaning b/c yup, you are in combat  nice try 
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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1. They stopped shining their shoes a few years ago when they switched to tan suede boots.
2. You do not "tuck in" the combat utility uniform (cami's).
3. The combat utility uniform is dry and wear, no ironing involved.
Damn it !! I went in too early. I swear I can still spin shine so well you can see your reflection in my boots.
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you were missing the point........
and yes their combat uniform would not require dry cleaning b/c yup, you are in combat
nice try
LMAO, "nice try" GMAB again.
If you had ANY clue, you would realize their "combat uniform" IS their everyday wear uniform. And they are NOT allowed to iron it. It ruins the chemicals that is layered in the uniform for military reasons.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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Damn it !! I went in too early. I swear I can still spin shine so well you can see your reflection in my boots.
What exactly is "spin shine?"?
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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DOH !! It has been a long time. Spit ( although I always got better results from water and a Bic lighter than spit ) . That was until I discovered the miracle that was clorofram ( hope I spelled that one right.)
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I don't know anything about the marines but I do know a little about the Army... I don't want you to think I'm talking out my backside but I don't claim to know everything. Being around it a lot I have picked up on so much from these people. My grandfather just retired 3 years ago a Lt. Colonel my uncle who just got back from Iraq is and E-7 my cousin who just got back from Iraq is an E-5 my sister's husband is an E-9 one of my very good friends father just retired about 2 years ago a General I've had 2 g/f''s who were/are in the army One who just got out about a year ago was an MP the other is a combat medic who is in Iraq right now and she will be back in 5 months I tried to get in a few years back but I was medically rejected 
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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you were missing the point........
and yes their combat uniform would not require dry cleaning b/c yup, you are in combat
nice try
LMAO, "nice try" GMAB again.
If you had ANY clue, you would realize their "combat uniform" IS their everyday wear uniform. And they are NOT allowed to iron it. It ruins the chemicals that is layered in the uniform for military reasons.
trust me... I know that. that's why I said what I said...
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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DOH !! It has been a long time. Spit ( although I always got better results from water and a Bic lighter than spit ) . That was until I discovered the miracle that was clorofram ( hope I spelled that one right.)
Water and a bic did work great. Yes coraframs or how ever they are spelled look great but uncomfortable.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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Chloroframs were unbearably hot in tropical climates... they were like putting ovens on your feet  Man, I'm getting all nostalgic for ugly denim bellbottoms & boondockers now
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Man, I'm getting all nostalgic for ugly denim bellbottoms & boondockers now
I hated those things, had to wear them "Denim bellbottoms" for 10 years. Never had to wear the boondockers except in bootcamp, being in aviation, we had to wear flight deck boots. Glad those uniforms are gone.
The current uniforms we wear are leaving too, we will be wearing these (well they will be, I will be retired) come summer '08...
New uniforms for 2008 and beyond. Worn from 1998 to 2008 1998 and prior
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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So let me just check the scoreboard here and see if I understand things.
Marines are banned from excessive tattoos because it contrary to the "image"; yet, gays are allowed and protected because it's just an expression of who they are?
And tattoos aren't?:p 
I served in the Marine Corp back in 91 in Desert Storm. Whether it's a coincidence or not, some of the best Marines I knew where the ones with the excessive tattooing. And now we don't have room for them....
Has this country lost it's mind? Political correctness has no place on the battlefield, this is pathetic. Whoever came up with this needs to be relieved of duty. No doubt it's some pencil pushing admin pogue that wishes the Marine Corp was softer and gentler..... We have one of those, it's called the Air Force. Believe me they don't want the Marines to turn into Airmen. 
Well at least we won't have a problem with draft-dodgers anymore, if they don't want to be drafted they can just get a tatoo...
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Has this country lost it's mind? Political correctness has no place on the battlefield, this is pathetic.
I really don't think it's an issue of 'political correctness'. It's more of an image conscious thing...
...but I think it's really, really stupid. As far as I'm concerned, a Marine could have a tattoo on his face for all I care. I know some Marines wouldn't like that, and as a non-Marine I'll defer to them...but those are some tough boys...they can do whatever they want for all I care.
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In furthering the pursuit of this "issue" -- and it really isn't, I respond to both The Horse (Semper Fi brother) and PhilRocks,....
Phil is correct, it's not as much as PC issue as it is the image consciousness thing,..and this is not a new problem, but simply a more profound reinforcement of a long standing policy.
Horse,...my guess is you never served with General James T. Conway, the current Commandant. Let me tell you, I did, and he's no pencil-necked admin pogue that just came up with this out of the blue. My best guess is he must have ran into someone in short sleeve "Charlies" that looked like Axyl Rose,....
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Horse,...my guess is you never served with General James T. Conway, the current Commandant. Let me tell you, I did, and he's no pencil-necked admin pogue that just came up with this out of the blue.
No disrespect intended, but who cares if you served with him 15 years ago .
Doesn't really matter who came up with this idea. Just because you know the guy doesn't make the idea any better or worse,
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My best guess is he must have ran into someone in short sleeve "Charlies" that looked like Axyl Rose,....
And?
From that I take it that, if you have too much ink, you and your General friend from 15 years ago think that guy that looks like Axle Rose, is a bad person and makes him less of a Marine.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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Inking was a ritual in early times before going to war, it was used to be an intimidation factor during battle. Now, here in "modern" times, the ancient traditions aren't good enough.
If they want to get tattoos, so be it. Although I'm not into the excessive tattoo thing, but that's one of the many rights they are putting their life in danger for. Kinda ironic isn't it?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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