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Part of a Miami trade up? If so, would we still get a pick out of it? Good hands but otherwise a slower Little. Browns "seriously considering" trade for Davone Bess Posted by Josh Alper on April 24, 2013, 7:49 PM EDT The Dolphins’ pursuit of Chiefs tackle Branden Albert has been a big storyline of late, but that may not be the only trade talk the Dolphins have engaged in recently. Sean Jensen of the Chicago Sun-Times reports that the Browns are “seriously considering” making a trade with Miami to acquire wide receiver Davone Bess. Other teams are also reportedly interested in Bess and Jensen is hearing that mid-round draft picks are being discussed as the compensation heading back to the Dolphins. Bess has caught 321 passes over the last five years with Miami and has spent long stretches as the team’s most reliable receiver over that period. With Mike Wallace and Brandon Gibson joining Brian Hartline at the top of the depth chart, the Dolphins could be looking to unload Bess’ $2.6 million contract now that they no longer need him to play a prominent role. Last season was the first time that Bess averaged more than 10.5 yards per reception so he’d clearly be a possession guy for Cleveland. Josh Gordon gives them a deep threat, but Greg Little’s hands have been problematic so the consistency Bess brings to the table is likely appealing to Rob Chudzinski and the rest of the offensive staff.
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I would trade the 4th rd pick for him. Not 3rd rd. We have no 2nd as of now and to give up a 3rd would be bad. that eliminates us from getting a FS we need. I love the Idea of a Receivers corps of Gordon, Little, Bess, Benjamin, Nelson.
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I like Bess. He is a tough receiver who makes clutch catches in traffic. I think he is exactly the type of receiver that we need.
Gordon and Little are "The All Airport team" guys. Big, sculpted, dumb, not reliable.
Bess is smaller. He is not a blazer. He simply gets open and takes hard hits while making tough catches that move the chains.
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This would be a stupid trade. We need to fill holes with this deep draft, not add to positions we're flush at. Bess to replace Little is a sideways move at best, with Little outmatching hin in size, strength and upside potential. Little has about the same yardage as Bess the past two years, with 50% more TDs. I hope Banner, Lombardi & Chud show a little patience here.
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Living in Miami, I've watched a lot of Dolphins games. I like Bess, he's probably one of my favorite Dolphins. Just a solid, reliable team player.
I honestly wouldnt mind having him, but I also think WR isn't a big enough need (unless Nelson isnt gonna be ready to go). IMO we need whatever pick we'd be giving up for him to fill some of the more glaring holes (G, ILB, CB, S).
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JMO
There is a ton of stuff floating around regarding this situation. A 4th...a 5th....a 6th...multiple picks; part of a trade down package. Personally, there is no way I would give up a pick for him. I just don't think he's all that great of a player and I'm fine with the receiver corp we have.
I don't want to give up a pick, no matter mid to late, for a guy in his final year of a deal. I'd rather use the picks we have for improving depth at other positions, ST, or gamble on a player that could surprise you. If we want another WR, why not draft one with the pick you're considering giving up that the team likes? He'd be younger, you'd have more control over him in terms of a contract, and he costs less. I get the fact that it would be a veteran with some productions for a low pick, I just think we've seen as high as Davone Bess will go in terms of talent. Where would this guy end up being on the depth chart? 4th? After Little, Gordon, Nelson....for 2.6million?
Plus I have a predisposition to not like giving up draft picks for current NFL players straight up. I'd rather keep them and draft youth over someone else's hand me downs.
No thank you.
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 04/25/13 08:52 AM.
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I like Bess a lot, but I would take a hard stance and offer a 5th and nothing more.
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I have nothing against Bess, and think he is a good, productive, possession receiver. He's just not a need and there are players that should be available in the 4th & 5th rounds we can really use... like guard, safety, LB & TE. Also, we don't need to be taking time away from Little, we need to keep him on the field, and continue to let him develop. He's big, and strong, and he seemed to put his early drops behind him. In this new system, he should be a yardage/TD machine.
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I'm not sure what's wrong with Benjamin or Little in the slot. Seems like a completely unnecessary move.
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I like Bess a lot, but I would take a hard stance and offer a 5th and nothing more.
make it conditional and I'll consider it..
we already have benji/cooper how many undersized players do we need?
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If we like Davone Bess and his skill set, why not draft someone like Denard Robinson? Yes, very raw but he could serve the same purpose, I think. Plus for all those clamoring for the return of the wildcat, there you go.  Again, very raw. Would need to improve on route running, ball security, etc. But he has top-end speed, does not shy away from contact and would be a mismatch for defenses. Not saying he's gonna pan out, but I'd rather think about him than Bess. I'm guessing Robinson is there in the fourth round....
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If we like Davone Bess and his skill set, why not draft someone like Denard Robinson? Yes, very raw but he could serve the same purpose, I think. Plus for all those clamoring for the return of the wildcat, there you go.
Again, very raw. Would need to improve on route running, ball security, etc. But he has top-end speed, does not shy away from contact and would be a mismatch for defenses. Not saying he's gonna pan out, but I'd rather think about him than Bess.
I'm guessing Robinson is there in the fourth round....
This guy was hurt every college season, as a quartertback. You really think he is gonna be able to take hits over the middle?
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I could see taking Denard late, (5th rnd?) and putting him back to returns KO's and punts while we bring him along as a WR. Denard as the new Cribbs.  I still think there will be a guard, TE, LB or safety there that I'd rather have though, to be honest.
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If we like Davone Bess and his skill set, why not draft someone like Denard Robinson? Yes, very raw but he could serve the same purpose, I think. Plus for all those clamoring for the return of the wildcat, there you go.
Again, very raw. Would need to improve on route running, ball security, etc. But he has top-end speed, does not shy away from contact and would be a mismatch for defenses. Not saying he's gonna pan out, but I'd rather think about him than Bess.
I'm guessing Robinson is there in the fourth round....
This guy was hurt every college season, as a quartertback. You really think he is gonna be able to take hits over the middle?
That's a valid concern. But I thought the concerns were the nerves with his throwing shoulder, not durability concerns because of his size or frame. He won't be throwing anymore.
Regarding his size, I think he has a strong lower half. That could help him.
Maybe I'm wrong.
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I like Bess. He is a tough receiver who makes clutch catches in traffic. I think he is exactly the type of receiver that we need.
Gordon and Little are "The All Airport team" guys. Big, sculpted, dumb, not reliable.
Bess is smaller. He is not a blazer. He simply gets open and takes hard hits while making tough catches that move the chains.
I agree. If we can get him for a 5th or less, it'd be tremendous value. Only "concern" is that he's just signed for 2013 and a FA after next season
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Only "concern" is that he's just signed for 2013 and a FA after next season who's gonna want a big contract.
Fixed it for ya.
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Didn't we just sign David Nelson to fill that "slower, reliable, move the chains" type receiver ......?
If we make a trade with the Dolphins where we take him along with the Dolphins' 1st and 2nd round picks in exchange for our 1st round pick, then I guess that would be OK ...... but I really don't want to trade for him as part of a stand along deal.
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Only "concern" is that he's just signed for 2013 and a FA after next season who's gonna want a big contract.
Fixed it for ya.
He makes 2.6mil in 2013. He will be hard pressed to make more than that after another "ok", but not great season as the Browns slot WR. The top-WRs like Welker and Amendola got 5-6mil/season, but Bess is not in that tier, so 3mil/season is tops for him imho. He would have to have a career season to get more....and btw, I think we have enough cap room the next seasons to keep him if we want to, as Gordon and Little still play out their "cheap" rookie deals
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Who's place does he take on the field?
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Who's place does he take on the field?
I thought Nelson (whenever he's on the field and not on the bench) was going to play on the outside allowing Little to move into the slot. I thought Benjamin would be the primary slot receiver with Little and Gordon on the outside, though.
So in my scenario, he takes over mostly Benjamin's and occasionally Little's roles in the slot.
EDIT: Although apparently Nelson has played in the slot position for most of his career. So I have no idea. This whole "trade for Bess" idea sounds completely unnecessary.
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Benjamin is NOT a slot-WR, period. Get that out of your minds. It's like the Sheldon Brown to FS talk that comes up constantly....IT WONT HAPPEN.
He lacks any kind of physicality to go over the middle. We're talking about a guy that doesn't even fight for balls in the air and goes out of bounds before he can get hit. He's strictly a no4-speed WR and punt-RET
Our slot options right now are Norwood and Nelson and maybe Little if we find an outside WR somewhere. I like both Norwood and Nelson, but Bess would represent a clear upgrade to both. I still don't think Nelson will make the team, but he will battle Norwood, Cooper and a boatload of UDFAs for the no5 job if we bring in Bess. Norwood and Nelson make the most sense since they can backup both inside and outside.
That said; I'd be pretty happy with a depth chart of Gordon, Little, Bess, Benjamin and Norwood (or Nelson if good enough after injury)
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Benjamin is NOT a slot-WR, period. Get that out of your minds. It's like the Sheldon Brown to FS talk that comes up constantly....IT WONT HAPPEN.
He lacks any kind of physicality to go over the middle. We're talking about a guy that doesn't even fight for balls in the air and goes out of bounds before he can get hit. He's strictly a no4-speed WR and punt-RET
Eh, I think you're right when you say "it won't happen" (they wouldn't have brought in Nelson and wouldn't be in talks to trade for Bess if they thought Benjamin was their guy), but I personally wouldn't be opposed to having him start in the slot. The guy is a playmaker and I like the ball in his hands.
But I do understand that it's probably not going to happen. 
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I would rather have Benjamin than Bess ... JMHO 
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So if Bess were part of Miami's swapping first rounders, could we still get an additional pick? I don't get the value thing...
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depth chart of Gordon, Little, Bess, Benjamin and Norwood (or Nelson if good enough after injury)
I suppose that's a scenario I could live with, however, I don't want to see Bess taking time away from Little, and I'd rather keep the pick. I also think that if Bess does have a good year, he'll want a big, Amendola-like contract. $6M is way too heavy for a slot guy so he could end up walking after a year.
I do agree that Benjamin is unsuited for the slot and should stay on the outside for certain "deep" situations only.
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thought this was an interesting statistic ... "In these five seasons, Bess has 321 receptions for 3,447 yards and 12 touchdowns. He is one of only 10 NFL players (Bess, Boldin, Fitzgerald, Gonzalez, Ca. Johnson, Marshall, Wayne, Welker, White, Witten) to catch 50+ balls in each of the last five seasons. He also helped to return punts for Miami from 2008-2011." Bess Article - WFNY
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Benjamin is NOT a slot-WR, period. Get that out of your minds. It's like the Sheldon Brown to FS talk that comes up constantly....IT WONT HAPPEN.
I don't see Benjamin being anything more that a guy that can return kicks, and run that deep route. He's basically the poor man's Devin Hester. Maybe he develops a little more but I agree he'll never be in the slot.
Still like the pick because I think he can serve a very good role, especially in this new offense.
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So if Bess were part of Miami's swapping first rounders, could we still get an additional pick? I don't get the value thing...
I hope so, as the "value gap" between pick 12 to 6 is the equivalent of a mid 2nd rounder according to the trade value chart. I think no one values Bess as a mid 2nd round value. Bess is worth a 5th imho considering his contract and roster status, meaning we still should get at least a future 2nd or 3rd+4th in any deal ON TOP of Bess to trade down to 12
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Benjamin is NOT a slot-WR, period. Get that out of your minds. It's like the Sheldon Brown to FS talk that comes up constantly....IT WONT HAPPEN.
I don't see Benjamin being anything more that a guy that can return kicks, and run that deep route. He's basically the poor man's Devin Hester. Maybe he develops a little more but I agree he'll never be in the slot.
Still like the pick because I think he can serve a very good role, especially in this new offense.
Yeah, all of this.
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There were plenty of WRs available in free agency, for zero picks. Could have just gotten another like we did Nelson.
Bess isn't a Boldin or Fitzgerald. No need to trade picks. If you want a guy like Bess, get him in free agency for nothing and use the draft pick elsewhere.
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There were plenty of WRs available in free agency, for zero picks. Could have just gotten another like we did Nelson.
Bess isn't a Boldin or Fitzgerald. No need to trade picks. If you want a guy like Bess, get him in free agency for nothing and use the draft pick elsewhere.
Word.
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Our WR group looks like what right now?
Big Guys: Gordon and Little
Slot Guys: Nelson, Norwood and Cooper
Package Guy: Benjamin
I understand obviously with Cooper and Norwood likely fighting it out to be the #2 guy in the slot that we still will end up with 1 "slot" to fill, but on paper that slot would be a big guy to back up Gordon and Little.
As far as balance goes that would be the last piece in trying to maintain the ability to create possible mismatches throughout the season.
In that regard, I'm not overly moved by the Bess chatter one way or another. If he ends up the additional piece in a trade up for Miami (likely with their second 2nd round pick (54?)) to swap picks 6 and 12 so be it. He would simply replace Nelson (one decent year and a year off from injury) as our slot/ WR3 guy.
Unfortunately, it still wouldn't address the concerns of needing a 3rd big guy behind Gordon and Little. It would make it pretty hard to keep either Cooper or Norwood, though (not a big lose, I suppose).
All that said, I would rather have him than Nelson, easy.
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I'm not sure I understand why people think Nelson is a slot guy. Especially your list; isn't he bigger than both Little and Gordon?
Bess is among the best slot receivers in the league and if we could get him for a late round pick we have to do it.
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Nelson is like 6'5" 220, if he's not a big guy, then we don't have any.  I don't count on him in the slot, but see him outside backing up Little and Gordon, or on 4 wide sets, or on the outside with Little in the slot. With Gordon, Little and Nelson on the field at the same time, Weeden would have three huge targets. Put Norwood or Cooper in the slot, and that's a sweet 4 WR set. Pull Nelson or Little and add Benjamin and you add serious deep threat to the mix. Put Little, Nelson or Cameron back in and you have a NASTY 5 wide set. I like our receivers and the options they bring, and don't see a need for Bess at all.
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I'm not sure I understand why people think Nelson is a slot guy. Especially your list; isn't he bigger than both Little and Gordon?
Change the word "slot" to "possession". Either way, he's still the 3rd WR on the field and lining up in the slot. He's (hopefully) what Jurevicius was.
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Bess is a proven slot receiver. We don't have one of those.
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True. I suppose I should have prefaced the listing with him as the #3 in a red zone target area as apposed to a traditional slot guy. I guess most of us are still viewing him as a pseudo- JJ (Joe Jurevicius) type. I just don't see him being able to "back-up" Gordon. Then again, we don't have anyone who can. Who knows, maybe we'll go after Danario Alexander after the draft. His injury history is a concern, but we would only rely on him in case something went wrong with the rest of the guys. Of course that's just my never-ending bias for the guy from back in his Missouri days...
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The time to sign restricted free agents has passed.
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I would give them no more than a 5th ...
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The time to sign restricted free agents has passed.
Sorry, never realized he actually signed his one-year deal. Guess that negates Alexander.
*depressed*
Here's to hoping Nelson can be effective on the outside if need be...
Though, oddly enough, if that is the case then we actually would have and opening for a slot guy after all...
Ok then. I'd be good with Miami's 12th, 54th (?) and Bess for the 6th.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns "seriously considering"
trade for Davone Bess?
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