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yea we have enough bodies on our team for about 3 years. now we just need talent.
The talent in the 4th and 5th rounds in this years drafts had 6th and 7th round draft grades. This draft was weak. The talent we passed on are not much better than the UDFA's. I think it was good value to trade the picks this year for higher picks next year. Even if it was an even swap of picks (4th for 2014 4th) we still would have came out better because the talent level next will be better.
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We need to stockpile as many draft picks as possible for Manziel.
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Florio and a couple of analists
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Florio and a couple of analists
I'd really hate to see what profession that is....
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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jc...
Did anyone catch PFT on NBC sport channel?
Florio and a couple of analists were breaking down the AFC teams draft.
If you're going to start using Mike Florio as your go-to guy, no one is going to take you serious.
If they ever did to begin with, that is.
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What they needed: Cornerback, quarterback, receiver, linebacker, safety, tight end, kicker.
What they needed according to the talking heads.
We drafted a CB. From what I have seen, this kid is a high floor type, who very well could start day 1. He has the hips to play man to man, and is strong enough to bump with. He's an inch or 2 shorter than Haden. Oh Lord, we should cut him today.
The talking heads feel that we need a QB, yet most of the league was horribly unimpressed with what was available. The Browns seem committed to Weeden for this year, at least to start with, and they have some extra assets if they need to make a move for a QB next year. (when the choices almost have to be better than this year's were) Why throw a draft pick at a position if you are looking at either going with the guy you have, or addressing it next year? How many 4th, 5th, 6th, or 7th round picks become starting QBs? How many become good starting QBs? The number isn't large. We could have thrown a pick at the potential problem, but is that solving a problem, or applying a band-aid?
Receiver? Really? A Need? We added Nelson and Bess to Little, Gordon, Norwood, and Benjamin. That's a pretty solid group.
The national talking heads think that we need a safety, but I have said all along that I think that Horton and the coaching staff like what they have seen out of some of the young guys. There is also Rhodes floating around out there if they need a veteran.
I would have looked at TE, but we did add 2 of them in free agency to add to Cameron, Smelley, and Gronkowski. Who knows? I'm not going to jump over the fact that we didn't add a body here.
Kicker? We added a veteran. No need to add a rookie.
One thing that this front office did was to address needs in free agency. I love that we were able to add pass rushers in free agency, and another in the draft.
I also look at the team as it is currently made up and there are a lot of kids we simply do not know very much about. Does it make sense to throw bodies onto the pile when we really don't know about a lot of the younger players we have? I like giving the kids we have a year, and then having extra picks to see where we truly need help.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The truely funny thing is you think over-all they did a good job. This was a terrible draft at best. The basisly got one player in Mingo and very little else help.
Glad I can make you laugh. Terrible draft at best??? I don't know u might be right I cannot see into the future. I am looking at talent.
You know what is Funny...I got one poster who says they agree with me but the question the Mingo pick...Then another (you) state I am Silly funny but you think our Mingo pick was the only good thing...Now that is funny 
Look all I know about Mingo is he has a special First step...you can't teach that...n he has it. What he does with it we cannot predict...that is why they ALL ARE CALLED PROSPECTS.
I like the CB we got...I know he's a slot CB cause the Bozo's n Talking Heads say he is...they don't know. The kid has Cover corner written all over him. Do you realize he is the same size as Sheldon Brown??? Let teams throw to his side...its great for a DC when teams are predictable...we'll drop a CB or LB in the passing lane every now n then n get an INT from it. Besides the kid will learn fast 
You know not every thing we do is TERRIBLE.
If you cannot see the difference - Finally we have a drafted Foundation. Now its all about upgrading. This draft was weak n hard to upgrade. But we are coming away with at least 4 new starters n in others we have Prospects/Youth getting better. What happens when you have a Youth Foundation...Progress of the player. Not an overhaul.
We strengthened our 2014 draft. I know when the Patriots do it they are Geniuses. Us...Terrible. lol 
I can only think you are a young fan who hasn't seen much since 1999. Bless all of you youngsters for sticking with the TEAM!!! Heck my first year of Football n Browns Football was our last Championship. So I really respect you young fans...heck n you don't have to be 20's to be young fans...you could have gone through the Denver Crapola n the Sipe INT to the Raiders as your initiation to the Browns. Younger than me
But I see a difference. McFadden is Good can't wait for him to show you all n make you proud of the Browns once more or maybe the first time!
Yeah we took a shot at a guy who wasn't that bright - selling drugs to a cop  He gets arrested or something stupid again...he's done. He doesn't he actually could amount to something good.
The kid from ND...he heals up he's one heck of a football player. 6th/7th round there is no risk involved.
No time to commit suicide...Oh woah is us...sit back n enjoy the team you love. Being Bitter about it don't make it Realistic just Bitter.
Later sore all over as I walked 18 - therapy for me...Shot 40 on the back unfortunately shot 50 on the front  but won all my bets 
See it doesn't take much to make me Happy. We are getting closer n closer. I see a lot of good by the FO so far. As Banner stated we win...who is going to gripe
JMHO
One you make assumptios as to me being a young fan and I don't really know what I am talking about. LMAO...
You think McFadden is going to be so great because you know because your old. LMAO.
You think the kid from ND was a good pick. I believe you though that Brady Quinn was a good pick also if a remember your posts from back then. I though Brady was a bust when we drafted him and I think DB is a bust also. Both wasted picks.
You also may think the only 2 times our new drug dealer sold stuff was to an undercover cop. Maybe but a slim chance.
Honestly, I hope the FBI takes down Haslam so we can get rid of Lombardi and Banner. Because I love the Browns and I want them to win, I just don't think either was has the talent or ability to get the job down. And if the FBI is our only hope. So be it. I will root for the Browns and be hopeful of the FBI...
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One you make assumptios as to me being a young fan and I don't really know what I am talking about.
No offense, but it's easy to see where one could come to those assumptions based on your posts.
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Honestly, I hope the FBI takes down Haslam so we can get rid of Lombardi and Banner. Because I love the Browns and I want them to win, I just don't think either was has the talent or ability to get the job down. And if the FBI is our only hope. So be it. I will root for the Browns and be hopeful of the FBI...
Yeah, because yet another complete change of direction would be a wonderful thing.
Personally, I love the coaching staff the Browns have put together. I think that we have exceptional teachers, and excellent motivators. I think that they will help develop some of the younger players already on the team.
Frankly, I really like what the team has done with this off-season so far. We switched from a 4-3 to a 3-4, and we already have a damn good front 7. We added Groves, and Kruger, and Mingo, and Bryant. That's a lot of heavy duty talent there.
We can line up like this right now:
Bryant/Hughes
Taylor/Kitchen
Rubin/Winn/Bryant
Sheard/Mingo
Robertson/Fort/Carder
DQ/JMJ
Kruger/Groves
That's a strong and deep front 7. There are really no obvious weaknesses. The DL is deep with talent. The OLB corps is impressive. The ILB combines great experience from DQ with youth and speed in Robertson.
I have a feeling that Horton is going to do a lot with his new toys.
The secondary, which has been written off by damn near everyone, looks a little like this:
Haden/Bademosi/Skrine/Barnes
Ward/Hagg(?)
Gipson/Slaughter
McFadden/Owens/Wade
Lots of youth and question marks in the secondary. Fortunately I think that we will generate a pretty ferocious pass rush to help the youngsters out. We could also add a veteran somewhere between now and the opening of the season.
We have to find out about the young guys on this team. We cannot just keep churning through young draftees without ever really seeing if the guys we have can play.
I know that you wish that we had been able to address every single need on this team with a new player, but that isn't always the best approach. Do you agree that a better pass rush very well might help the DBs do their job in coverage? Might a strong pass rush improve not only the outside cover men, but even the 3rd/4th/5th CBs ...... who cover slot receivers and multi receiver sets? I think that pursuing a pass rush as our first priority makes a lot of sense. Do you agree, or disagree? If you disagree, then what would you have done instead?
You want to knock the 7th round kid we took a flyer on, and I agree, to an extent. It was an idiotic thing for him to do, and makes me question how much he loves football if he was willing to risk his football future. That said, he is a 7th rounder. He's worth a shot IMHO. If he seems to be a problem, then what have we lost?
I like what we have done this off-season, and I think that we laid much of the foundation for the team going forward. Maybe next year we add a QB, or maybe another CB ...... or S ....... but we'll have a lot of picks with which to address them. We almost certainly aren't going to win the Super Bowl this year, no matter who we signed/drafted ....... but we laid the foundation for the direction of the team going forward. I am very happy to see that happened so quickly.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't know that we're entirely done with our secondary, either.
Probably not any dramatic additions, but there may be a pick-up or two.
If I had to wager a guess, I'd say Owens or McFadden is the #2 CB on game day. Neither of which really inspires me. We're probably going to get torched a lot.
Maybe Skrine, but I don't see how anyone watches tape of the guy and says 'that's our #2'.
I really hope Bademosi makes the team. But it's not a given. He flashed a lot of potential in his limited playing time and he's a very valuable ST asset.
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Honestly, I hope the FBI takes down Haslam so we can get rid of Lombardi and Banner.
Wishing terrible things on people speaks about your character. 
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Bademosi is, by far, our best special teams player. He also did a nice job as a reserve CB last year.
I really don't see how he doesn't make the team, unless he completely flops in those roles this year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Bademosi is, by far, our best special teams player. He also did a nice job as a reserve CB last year.
I really don't see how he doesn't make the team, unless he completely flops in those roles this year.
Bademosi is going to be a bad ass safety imo
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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I would move him there immediately. I think that he is our best possibility there. He definitely had the ability to hit, and has the speed.
I like him a lot.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Mac don't mean to pile on - but you put yourself out there hope you understand I don't think any of it is personal. Not from me at least.
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Where they missed: With their second-round pick used last July on receiver Josh Gordon, the Browns traded their fourth-round pick for a third-round pick in 2014, and then their fifth-round pick for a fourth-round pick in 2014. For a team that needs to get better now, deferring a pair of picks to next year won’t help that effort, regardless of who they eventually get.
I am very confused from this assessment n think cause of this alone it has some bias involved. 2nd round pick is where we missed? Understand we didn't have it this season...but we definitely got the cream of the 2013 WR crop w/our 2nd round pick...that in itself is a Home Run.
Also ignored by this author is our draft trade for Davon Bess virtually for peanuts.
Then there is this Getting better now bs...with a watered down 2013 draft class talent at the 4th n 5th rounds??? Just how do we get better now with those picks??? At best we would get some guys that would contribute to special teams n possibly can progress to depth or starters somewhere in the future...Where does this "NOW" bs come in.
Regardless who we eventually get??? Total bias crapola - btw just another reason why I call these guys "BOZOS"
Norm67... Curious was I correct on your AGE assumption???
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and I don't really know what I am talking about. LMAO...
Well whether or not you know what you're talking about is still to be seen...but I NEVER inferred that in my post. NOT ONE BIT...If you are not a Troll (don't think you are) It appears from your posting you have no positive experience about our Browns n seem a little too negative or I thought "bitter". Actually I praise you (if my assumption was correct regarding youth) as a fan cause for so many all they have is year after year of disappointment. No where do I insinuate a young fan does not have knowledge of football. Youth has nothing to do with Knowing what you're talking about. My reference to youth was strictly on seeing very little positives for the team you love.
Knowledge...I didn't see any logical knowledge being put out there in discussion just a lot of negative over reaction n a heck of a lot of bitterness.
Yeah I think McFadden will be great cause I know cause I'm OLD nah...cause I took a close look at this kid from what is available to us in the form of film n I came away with a good assessment - mostly with my football experience that I have nothing to do with OLD except that does give me More time to accumulate experience.
I think the kid from ND was a good pick...only for the fact there is no risk from using a 6th round pick. The kid heals up hes high quality. I'm not worried about a 6th rounder busting...as in OH NO WE ARE DOOMED...the key is Mingo n McFadden the rest are bonus babies. Quinn? you have no idea of my thought as for your recollection. Got news for you...since after the 2001 draft (which I criticized) I would come to the boards n embrace each n every pick as in I AM A HOMER...how I feel about each prospect I do in Private Messages as I do not wish to add to the Chaos on the board.
But I don't even remotely see how my embracing of a First round QB (btw I embrace Weeden too) taken by us in 07 has anything relevant to a 6th or 7th round pick in 2013??? Except what you are saying I have no clue???
I well aware selling POT??? was probably not a one time thing or else the kid is the most UNLUCKY guy around the first time he sold Pot was to a Cop...lol I might be old but I'm not Naive. I did a lot of stupid things when I was in college...I'm glad I wasn't caught or have them put on YouTube n all that stuff. I believe kids are kids n somewhere along the lines have to MAN UP n mature. I don't know squat about this kid except we sent a coach n looked him over in depth n feel he has turned the corner n matured since the last incident. Again - low risk to none - reward he if he truly has matured is pretty good.
you love the Browns n want them to win??? So you wish Doom n Gloom on guys not into their first season - just another part of your post I HOPE YOU ARE A YOUNGSTER. Cause that is rather immature. I fail to see how that is GOOD n shows Love for the Browns. At least lets see a year or two from these guys before we condemn them n start chanting...Kill Piggy! Kill Piggy! you know when you put immaturity in the position to run things...didn't you learn anything from Lord of the Flies?
If you are an Old dude like me...  way too much bitterness - sorry now who are you from the Old board...lol 
As always JMHO just OLDER n Wiser
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Furthermore, who did you expect to get in the 4th or 5th rounds that would be better than a 3rd and 4th next year? The Colts drafted some dude named Montori Hughes out of Tennessee-Martin. If the Browns had drafted that guy, are you telling me you would not have immediately traded him for a 4th round draft pick in next year's draft? Are you really that high on Montori Hughes?
The same could be said of the safety from Syracuse that the Steelers drafted. As pessimistic Browns fans, we call him the "heir apparent to Polamalu." Of course. I, however, see a 4th round safety from Syracuse whom I would have traded for a 3rd round pick any day of the week.
The 4th and 5th rounds are crap shoots. This is where we get the Martin Ruckers, Owen Marecics, Kaluka Maiavas, and Ryan Millers of the world. I would love to unload any of those guys for a 3rd round draft pick.
I'm assuming your questions aren't rhetorical.
Montori Hughes is a baller. He can play any position in an odd front. He will start for Indy this year. That's not just me that thinks this, Mayock said at the combine he could be a second rounder.
As far as the fourth round pick, I'm not as high on Shamarko as more people, but when you have the NCAA reigning interceptions leader at a position you have no starter for, how do you not take Phillip thomas? Marcus lattimore and Quinton Patton were available as well.
That's where you get maiava, Marecic, and miller if you suck at drafting.
I doubt your optimism on both S. Thomas and D. Hughes. It's more likely we never hear of either player again.
The funny thing is that the Browns' picks of Marecic, Maiava, and Ryan Miller are actually above average 4th/5th round picks, considering that all of them are at least still in the league. We have this strange affinity for assuming that other teams are consistently finding gold in these rounds without anybody ever going back to check to see if it's actually true. Let's look at the Steelers, for instance... the team that drafted future HOF Shamarko Thomas in the 4th round and should never be traded with since every 4th/5th rounder they draft is a superstar.
These are the Steelers' 4th and 5th round picks over the 5 years from 2008 through 2012:
Alameda Ta'Amu (out of the NFL)
Chris Rainey (bum, unless you like fumbles)
Cortez Allen (the best of this bunch but certainly not somebody you lament missing on)
Chris Carter (who?)
Thaddeus Gibson (only Buckeye fans even remember this name-- he's been on the roster of 6 different teams)
Chris Scott (no idea who this is. Steelers cut him)
Crezdon Butler (now on his 4th team)
Stevenson Sylvester (cool name. It appears he may be playing special teams still)
Joe Burnett (a backup CB for the Edmonton Eskimos. No joke.)
Frank Summers (now a practice squad player for the Bills)
Tony Hills (on his 3rd team. A backup OL in Indy)
Dennis Dixon (sadly, this 3rd string QB looks good compared to the rest of this lot)
It looks like only 4 of the Steelers' 12 4th/5th round picks from 2008-2012 are even still with the team, with several completely out of the NFL. I would not trade Maiava, Marecic, or Miller for any single person that the Steelers drafted other than Cortez Allen.
It would be nice if we could put to rest the fallacy that the Steelers are better drafters of smarter than everyone when it comes to these middle rounds. It's miss after miss after miss.
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If you see my post, I actually said I'm not that high on Shamarko Thomas but think we made a mistake not drafting Phillip Thomas.
Also, the defensive lineman's name is Montori Hughes. And yes, I do think he will end up starting for the Colts at some point this year.
I haven't said the Steelers draft well, by the way, and I certainly didn't join in with the one person who said he might be a future hall of famer.
Last edited by clevesteve; 04/30/13 02:53 PM.
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This is a nice start, I would love to see the comparison to all of the Steeler's third round picks over that same time to see if those players are still playing.
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This is a nice start, I would love to see the comparison to all of the Steeler's third round picks over that same time to see if those players are still playing.
Steelers' 3rd round picks (2008-2012):
Sean Spence
Curtis Brown
Emmanuel Sanders
Kraig Urbik
Mike Wallace
Keenan Lewis
Bruce Davis
They hit 3 out of 7. Frankly, I think you need to do better than that in the 3rd round. Despite their quite undeserved reputation as a draft juggernaut, the Steelers really just don't draft that well.
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If you see my post, I actually said I'm not that high on Shamarko Thomas but think we made a mistake not drafting Phillip Thomas.
Also, the defensive lineman's name is Montori Hughes. And yes, I do think he will end up starting for the Colts at some point this year.
I haven't said the Steelers draft well, by the way, and I certainly didn't join in with the one person who said he might be a future hall of famer.
You're right. I mixed up your Thomases and also conflated Montari Hughes with Dontari Poe (hence, D. Hughes).
Although I quoted you, I was really replying to the general notion that we must have lost the trade because the Steelers are so much smarter. My point is that drafting anyone in the 4th round (Phillip Thomas, included) is such a crap shoot for every team that it is almost always preferable to trade that pick for a 3rd round pick the next year if you can find a sucker to do it. Although everyone loves a Tom Brady story, the realistic ceiling for any 4th round pick is closer to Cortez Allen who, although decidely mediocre, is head and shoulders above the rest of the dregs that the 4th round usually produces. We fall in love with current draft eligible players just because they are fresh in the mind, but even the most highly touted rarely ever pan out beyond a serviceable player.
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We fall in love with current draft eligible players just because they are fresh in the mind, but even the most highly touted rarely ever pan out beyond a serviceable player.
I admit I agree with this assessment. It's tough to shake.
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The funny thing is that the Browns' picks of Marecic, Maiava, and Ryan Miller are actually above average 4th/5th round picks, considering that all of them are at least still in the league.
Marecic and Miller will be lucky to be in the league come September.
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This is a nice start, I would love to see the comparison to all of the Steeler's third round picks over that same time to see if those players are still playing.
Steelers' 3rd round picks (2008-2012):
Sean Spence
Curtis Brown
Emmanuel Sanders
Kraig Urbik
Mike Wallace
Keenan Lewis
Bruce Davis
They hit 3 out of 7. Frankly, I think you need to do better than that in the 3rd round. Despite their quite undeserved reputation as a draft juggernaut, the Steelers really just don't draft that well.
I prefer to give teams a N/A on guys who just get hurt (aka Spence). That gives them 3/6 who became legitimate starters out of the 3rd round. 2 of which became very good starters. I believe that is quite good for the 3rd round.
#gmstrong
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Miller may have developed some over the course of the past year. That isn't out of the question.
Marecic just wound up doing absolutely nothing well. For a guy who was supposed to be an "all around football player", and a "well rounded FB", he really wound up doing very little well.
I still remember Harbaugh raving about him in Frisco. Maybe we can trade him to the Niners?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Just because Harbaugh loved him as a college player doesn't mean he wants him as a pro.
Plenty of guys that former college HC's rave about, but when a chance presents itself to bring them over tho the NFL level ... they don't.
But, yeah, I'd love it if he sent us a 7th for him, just for old time's sake.
As for Miller developing ... let's hope so. He looked like he won a contest when he was on the field.
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Quote:
The funny thing is that the Browns' picks of Marecic, Maiava, and Ryan Miller are actually above average 4th/5th round picks, considering that all of them are at least still in the league.
That's tricky business.
First off, I agree that the Steelers have not been drafting as well in recent years. No problem w/that statement.
However, your conclusion that we have drafted well in those rounds is questionable. We created a need by cutting Vickers and draft Marcic. He is terrible and if it weren't for Heckert having control over the roster, the guy would of --and should have--been long gone. Miller played toward the end of the season. He gave up back-to-back sacks on the same move. Maaiva is nothing more than a special teams guy.
The Steelers had better teams than the Browns. Would those three chumps have made the Steelers roster? I doubt it.
I hear a lot of talk about all the young talent the Browns have. I concede that they are young. I disagree w/"all" the talent part. We have some talent, but there are guys who would be cut by almost every other team. We let Mike Adams walk and he is good enough to start for Denver, and we start Haag. Is he young? Yes. Is he any good? No.
I think people get deceived when looking at our roster. I think a lot of our "young talent" would be lucky to make certain teams' rosters, never mine starting for them.
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Legend
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That's all true .... just a little wishful thinking on my part.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Quote:
However, your conclusion that we have drafted well in those rounds is questionable. We created a need by cutting Vickers and draft Marcic. He is terrible and if it weren't for Heckert having control over the roster, the guy would of --and should have--been long gone. Miller played toward the end of the season. He gave up back-to-back sacks on the same move. Maaiva is nothing more than a special teams guy.
I hear a lot of talk about all the young talent the Browns have. I concede that they are young. I disagree w/"all" the talent part. We have some talent, but there are guys who would be cut by almost every other team. We let Mike Adams walk and he is good enough to start for Denver, and we start Haag. Is he young? Yes. Is he any good? No.
Yeah, I agree with this. I like a number of our young guys, but there are definitely places our roster could improve.
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It is not unusual for a team to try and hide a player on the roster if they are drafted and they team thinks they will take a year to develop. The devious way is to have them put on IR with a hangnail. (See Ocho)
A players biggest leap is between year one and year two, when they have had a chance to spend of full off season as a professional athlete. So we may see something from Miller.
No excuse for Marecic, he was just as bad last year. Let's hope the light comes on or Smelly is the answer. Norv has traditionally had a very good FB on the roster.
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
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Legend
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Quote:
I disagree w/"all" the talent part. We have some talent, but there are guys who would be cut by almost every other team.
I get it you think Heckert is over rated. But it doesn't make you correct about this. You have gone the other direction n totally UNDER RATE him. And don't get mad at me...lol
Here is my point. Its a new regime we got like 30 young guys via draft n UDFA here (just a guess on the numbers but I'm sure its close) - We have a NEW SYSTEM on O n a NEW SYSTEM on D I'm not talking about your Sheards, Haden, Lava, Ward, etc. I'm talking the Bademosi, Gipson, Hagg, Robertson (a released player), Norwood? well many bottom of the barrel guys that you state have no talent...and yet they are still here. If they had no Talent and are not penciled in as starters but are depth guys (Gipson is penciled in) - but if these kids I don't care 10-20 have no talent with no reasoning for CONTINUITY to keep them here considering we are going into new systems. We could have signed several youth with more talent that are numerous n would be signed at League minimum. Just like every regime that came here pretty much made an overhaul of the NONE TALENT that was here. Vers I just don't see that.
And I'm not saying they are great n would start all around the league. I'm saying they actually DO have talent. They will get a good shot here n I see them getting rid of the veteran guys...but not the bottom of the barrel guys. Adams for Hagg not quite sure it was meant that way. I think it was for Young who got hurt n Hagg was forced into service??? I could be wrong and it might be one instance but Adams is/was not that good for the big difference. Yeah I know he went to Denver n started he might be the exception not the rule...we were a young D Denver was a D almost complete? Its ok for Banner to rid himself of Over thirty marginal veterans - but not good for Heckert???
I see no wrong. I don't see our season going down the tubes because we were missing Mike Adams. Anyway I respect the new guys evaluations. I just don't see an Overhaul and there definitely would be one expected if it is as you state.
Nobody is stating (I hope not) that 10 of these 20 guys are going to be starters in the NFL...if 2-3 become starters it is above the norm for the NFL of later rounder/UDFA guys hitting with the team. Thats all n the fact we want them here at least for another season tells me they do have football talent. I expect 10 to get released in the youth turnover with our 5 drafted rookies n 17 UDFA...that is a very natural turnover without Regime change type of numbers. Hope you catch my logic in this all. Again if we get 2-3 starters or good rotational guys...it is above average personnel work.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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All I have been hearing on the radio, and reading on the net, is how we needed "bodies". If all we needed were bodies then the 17 UDFAs we signed should take care of that.
The thing is, we do not need bodies. We need players. We need upgrades to what we have. Is what was available in the 4th and 5th rounds of this draft (the weakest in God knows how long) really going to make a difference to this team?
Again..I had to think through what I first thought.
The Browns wanted a pass rusher ..that was the top thing on their to do list..build a disruptive pass rush .
They really have addressed it .
They didn't want to tamper with the existing roster too much and they said they weren't going to be able to fix all the holes in one year..well it's said every year so no different with this crew.
They took Mingo instead of the tradedown because he was # 1 target..I'll actually say # 2 ,because I believe Jordan was # 1.
So the cost of getting a second rounder was too high, NE was the team it was reported they spoke to ..and they wanted a # 1 and 2 from this year and next...blah..Bellyache..
So they get a CB WHO ACTUALLY HAS THE coverage skills you want a man cover type although he's not tall but he's lengthy and agile.
O.k..the infamous trade with Pukesbugh and Indy nets us a 3 and a 4 next..more ammo in a talented draft.
Then they bring in players who may or may not contribute in the later rounds and a bunch of UDFA's..
They aren't done..I think it's a good start and they have identified their plan of action..so lets see how they roll.
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I don't hate Heckert. Go check out the Lower Expectations thread in the Pure Football forum. I made several posts, but you will find one where I really discuss how I feel about the job he did.
I think he was okay. I get upset because people severely overrated the job he did here and then bash the new guys like they are clueless. Well, they may be clueless....time will tell.....but, I don't see how we lost this great builder of a football team.
I will stick w/what I said. There are guys like Maracic, Haag, Wade, etc who actually received playing time in Cleveland that would be cut by most NFL teams. Young and talented are not two words that ALWAYS go together.
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Legend
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I disagree on Wade. He was a draft pick, and he did a decent job as a rookie last year in a limited role.
I'll absolutely give you Marecic and Hagg though.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The Steelers gave DeCastro and Kelvin Beachum playing time....and one of them was a 1st rounder, not the 10th last player in a draft like Wade and Hagg...by your standards, they must be the most idiotic team in the NFL  Look, if all you can come up with are late 3rd day picks who HAD to get playing time since Heckert inherited 4 building blocks who weren't 30yo (Thomas, Mack, Rubin and DQ...that's it), then it actually proves that he did one heck of a job to re-build the roster. You tell me again how you fill 18 starting positions + depth in 3 drafts with top talent players...even if you add 2 starters via FA (which made sense to neglect in the first 2 offseasons) like Banner did this offseason, you're expecting to find 4 starters per draft and be good from the word "go"....yeah, fair assessment, lol
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Legend
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Will you please just go away? God, you are unreal. You obviously didn't read my comments in context. I directly quoted a poster who mentioned our choices [Maracic, Maaiva, and Miller.] Ahhhh, never mind. You aren't even worth the time anymore.
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Thanks for taking your time then Wonder why you've been a no show in the 2010 draft thread...not worth your agenda...ehh, I mean "time", I guess
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Quote:
We need to stockpile as many draft picks as possible for Manziel.
U couldn't be serious , could U?
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I sort of know you don't Hate Heckert...cause before there was regime change n as you definitely did Hate Holmgren, you always use to compliment him as doing Ok - well. Only after the regime change n a big Feather in the cap of many of your debate opponents was the work of Heckert...you got harsh on him. But I chose my words purposely n started my post w/I know you think Heckert is Over rated. I don't wish to open the door to insult you from other posters. But wish simply to disagree with you poster to poster.
btw...Hagg finished the season so different then how he started it (after being benched or was it injury?) Started to get it n looked much quicker (thinking less) - he has promise still so does Wade. Again the vast majority of these guys across the board from the NFL are out of NFL football after 3 years...Just saying Heckert did a good job as I believe the vast majority of these players kept by us (last year we brought in 15 UDFA + Drafted rookies...but the guys we kept from that...this year we drafted 5 + 17 n counting UDFA. If the bottom of our barrel brought here with similar investments - we will see a decent amount of Turnover with the youth. But I think we won't keep more than one or two of the UDFA's not counting any thing that opens up due to injury.
Marecic...I don't think there are many if ANY dawgs praising that pick. Unlike many I don't think the mistake was getting rid of Vickers ( who I loved ) but the other kid brought here by Heckert - Clutts, signed from the UFA. But I don't know if that was a Holmgren/Shurmur choice on the roster rather than Heckert after all he brought in both.
A 4th rounder not panning out shouldn't be used as the Summary of Heckerts drafting capabilities. Actually the other 4th rounder that year is a better example. The new regime felt very comfortable letting Watson loose n get scrutinized by the Bozos n Talking Heads for not drafting a TE by pretty much stating Cameron is THEIR GUY at TE not only in words but in deed. No he's not an established star but my point is the kid HAS talent for them to think highly of his Potential n progress.
Horton came right out n stated one of the reasons he came here was cause he loved the youth that we had here...a lot of young Big guys who can run n little guys who can hit. Again I could be wrong n soon after he came here n evaluated the talent here he loved the youth that we had...point being he loved the youth here. Not only words cause after FA n draft hardly any if Any got released n replaced so their actions pretty much showed (to me) these just weren't standard words of a coach joining a new team for media stuff.
As always JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Legend
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Quote:
A 4th rounder not panning out shouldn't be used as the Summary of Heckerts drafting capabilities.
I am so tired of people twisting my words around. I NEVER said that.
I was replying to a direct quote from another poster. I simply stated that comparing mid-round picks between the Steelers and Browns is not NECESSARILY PROOF that we have drafted better than them, because their roster is so much more established than theirs.
Whatever guys. Later.
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Legend
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Got it - my bad...
I see you noted basically a lot of players starting with Marecic getting starting time.
Of course they don't really represent the Starters Taylor, Winn, Hughes, Sheard, Ward, Haden, Trent, Weeden, Gordon, Little, Schwartz, Lava n Pinkston
Now possibly - Cameron, Gipson/Hagg, JMJ
Those are the majority of REAL starters brought here - n the DL I understand there might be some rotation involved in those starter things.
Depth guys progressing in Skrine, Bademosi, Carder (not drafted but cut n picked up), Fort n Robertson (again cut n picked up).
Marecic so far Waste guy - we benched him in lieu for Alex Smith.
Benjamin...never liked him. Bess might spell his doom unless he becomes a return stud.
I do think you Underrate Heckerts contribution here in personnel - these kids are real football players. Why we are not getting rid of them. Heck this regime is even reconsidering Mitchell who was given up on by Heckert n coaches.
But if you look back to this thread. hehehe...we are in full agreement - probably on like 98% of the stuff going on. I might have gotten a fact wrong on What you have stated - but my points really don't change...yes I'm looking for you to possibly change your mind cause I know u are one of the few who would. Just don't lump me in with other emotional discussion you have had. Looking to just have a good football discussion.
got to run.
I'm just very very happy that we have decided to Continue with the foundation rather than the INSANITY of the past of an Overhaul of the players with the change. First times here. First time we had a viable drafted foundation. First time a new regime complimenting that foundation by deciding to build on it instead tear it down n build a new foundation! I am very very excited. I also am one of the few that will praise both Heckert n also Banner/Lombardi for what they have done for us Browns Fans.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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