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The Steelers gave DeCastro and Kelvin Beachum playing time....and one of them was a 1st rounder, not the 10th last player in a draft like Wade and Hagg...by your standards, they must be the most idiotic team in the NFL 
Look, if all you can come up with are late 3rd day picks who HAD to get playing time since Heckert inherited 4 building blocks who weren't 30yo (Thomas, Mack, Rubin and DQ...that's it), then it actually proves that he did one heck of a job to re-build the roster.
You tell me again how you fill 18 starting positions + depth in 3 drafts with top talent players...even if you add 2 starters via FA (which made sense to neglect in the first 2 offseasons) like Banner did this offseason, you're expecting to find 4 starters per draft and be good from the word "go"....yeah, fair assessment, lol
Heckert did an average/decent job but nothing special. There really haven't been any early bad busts (ofc it is still too early to make that statement) and I agree this team is significantly more talented and deeper than it was 3 years ago, but a lot of that surely has to do with how much draft power we have had. Pick in the top 10 every year, get a massive package in sort of a fluke trade down, and borrow an early 2nd from a future draft and it's just not that hard to get a lot of young talented players in the mix. A lot of mockers on this board probably could have done a comparable job, yourself included. Heck you might have even done better.
7, 38, 59, 85, 92, 160, 177, 186
21, 37, 59, 102, 124, 137, 150, 248
3, 22, 37, 39 (supp), 87, 100, 120, 160, 204, 205, 245, 247
and still a massive question mark at QB, no real game-breaking players, and no player like an Atkins, Sherman, Wilson who has dramatically outplayed his draft slot. On the bright side there is a real foundation in place and lots of cap room. Hence, average/decent
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yea we have enough bodies on our team for about 3 years. now we just need talent.
The talent in the 4th and 5th rounds in this years drafts had 6th and 7th round draft grades. This draft was weak. The talent we passed on are not much better than the UDFA's. I think it was good value to trade the picks this year for higher picks next year. Even if it was an even swap of picks (4th for 2014 4th) we still would have came out better because the talent level next will be better.
You see, that's where you and most of the others are WRONG, actually this year draft grades in the 4th and 5th rounds were significantly higher then last year.
1st round average grade (ESPN): 2013=94 2012=97
4th round: 2013: 2013= 70.55 2012= 68.56
5th round: 2013: 67.83 2012=62.75
I know this will not stop posters on this forum saying that this year draft was weak on the middle round, although this was never mentioned by the media nor by many here before the draft, but the facts are that at least in ESPN the grades this year were higher.
Last edited by rastanplan; 05/02/13 01:01 PM.
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and it's just not that hard to get a lot of young talented players in the mix.
And yet since 99 we were not able to...I just don't understand the minimizing of it all. 
Clark had 26 picks given to us via the expansion catch up...I think he traded a couple away for players. Sure wish Heckert was there we wouldn't be in this mess.
Why minimized solid prospects in numbers by going back n cherry pick players who were missed on as in yeah he was ok but we could have had so n so...please.
Butch had his picks n did mostly groundhog on what clark did. Not much in adding to the LOS n we've had pretty low picks throughout ALL THESE YEARS to make that as if Heckert was at an advantage from all the other Personnel pickers we have had over the years. Clark overall #1 in each round, Butch two top 10 picks in four drafts - Savage 3 top 10 picks in 3 drafts 08 no picks till the 4th round. Mangini...Overall #5 in his one. So Heckert didn't have this big advantage to justify his better drafting prowess. He got us a slew of Solid starters n depth through the draft n UDFA. Again for the very FIRST TIME since 99 - I don't care how you feel about the individual picks with hind sight could have been better...FACT is we got a Drafted foundation to build on. Never done before. Heckert is gone...so be it - I'm full into the NEW GUYS. But I will always be thankful for Heckert finally putting us in this position to get out of this EXPANSION ENVIRONMENT once n for all!
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
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eotab, we should give credit where credit is due, IMHO, the credit should go to Banner , the new FO and Coaching staff.
Romeo/Savage, Mangini, H&H could have done it before, there was some talent in the teams this guys inherited, but the first thing they have done was ripping the old project apart and start building from scratch.
I've always been extremely critic of this rebuilding mentality, so now I must praise the new regime for working and trying to make the most of the talent we have. Glad to ear that nobody is being accused of being a cancer, diva and other names the new regimes always did when settling in. But I'm crediting this to new regime, not Heckert.
I still think there is a big room to improve the talent level of this team, and that we should have done it both in FA and in the Draft, but if this is necessary to better evaluate the team,and to build on the previous base of players then I'm kind of ok with it.
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eotab, we should give credit where credit is due, IMHO, the credit should go to Banner , the new FO and Coaching staff.
Romeo/Savage, Mangini, H&H could have done it before, there was some talent in the teams this guys inherited, but the first thing they have done was ripping the old project apart and start building from scratch.
I've always been extremely critic of this rebuilding mentality, so now I must praise the new regime for working and trying to make the most of the talent we have. Glad to ear that nobody is being accused of being a cancer, diva and other names the new regimes always did when settling in. But I'm crediting this to new regime, not Heckert.
I still think there is a big room to improve the talent level of this team, and that we should have done it both in FA and in the Draft, but if this is necessary to better evaluate the team,and to build on the previous base of players then I'm kind of ok with it.
I agree to an extent. I do commend Banner for his approach at not blowing this thing up although there have been some veteran releases, good or bad is up for debate. Rucker, Gocong, Young are some of the more profile names. Some deferring to not re-sign. And I think the main thing I appreciate is the assumption that the FO and coaching staff has the "unknown" factor from switching defenses and offenses with the talent we have....particularly young talent. I think this is the difference from previous years. The young talent. Not saying we are inundated with it, but I feel this is the most we've had in a long time and it projects a different scenario for a new regime than in the past.
But with that said, I do disagree about the comments of the other regimes you mentioned. I think every situation is different...for example, the past regime kept Mangini and his system, so they let go a very few amount of people. They didn't resign 6 people of zero significance and released five. One was convicted of manslaughter, one was a 32 year old RB, one was named DA, a retiring Tucker. Maybe the situation was different by keeping Mangini. They did make changes in year two after firing Mangini.
I couldn't find the other regimes' moves but I am sure they all brought in their own people at some point....not sure of the timeline, however. Would be more than happy to look at that stuff if people have access to it.
I guess the point is I feel like the main reason we aren't doing anything in terms of the personnel, is we actually have a good talent base on this team. I get some people were released because of their contract, age, scheme fit, and I get that. It was the right move. But lots of guys are assumed to be significant role players that were drafted recently. But lots will be said about this regime's activity in year two after watching these guys in the new offensive and defensive systems. I'm sure we'll know the feeling on players before the season ends...good or bad.
Tackles are tackles.
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I've always been extremely critic of this rebuilding mentality, so now I must praise the new regime for working and trying to make the most of the talent we have.
I applaud this regime too for this approach and it's a big relief for me, but to give them ALL of the props is not a fair assessment imho. Banner said it best when he said
"I think it will be clear that the team is continuing to improve as I think it has for the last year or two and positioning itself well to have a chance to become very good and sustain it.”
They like what they saw and unlike some agenda driven posters on here saw the development and talent despite the stagnating overall record, which last season was more on a mix of bad coaching and a very young team unable to finish off games than talent.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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They like what they saw and unlike some agenda driven posters on here
Are you a middle school girl? Seriously.
And of course, you don't have an agenda. Only those who disagree w/your Almighty opinion are the ones w/agendas. 
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Terry Pluto's Talkin' ... about the Browns' draft rationale, the Indians' power surge and the Cavaliers' off-season roster decisions By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer The Plain Dealer May 04, 2013 at 11:55 PM, updated May 04, 2013 at 11:56 PM CLEVELAND, Ohio -- There's never a shortage of sports topics in Northeast Ohio, so we're talkin' ... About the Browns' draft ... I was critical of the team's actions in two stories last week. To be fair, I will explain how the Browns viewed this draft, based on conversations with those who know their approach. 1. The Browns had four players ranked as "blue-chippers." I could only come up with three names -- Barkevious Mingo and offensive tackles Luke Joeckel and Eric Fisher. It's possible the fourth was guard Chance Warmack, although I'm sure they were not going to take a guard at No. 6. The main point was Mingo was on the list. 2. That's why they rejected an offer from St. Louis to trade down to No. 16 and add a second-round pick. If a blue-chipper remained available, they were not about to make a trade unless it was clearly lopsided in their favor. They didn't think the offer for the Rams' 16th, 46th and 222nd picks were enough to pass on Mingo. 3. Mingo fits into their philosophy -- pressure the quarterback. Supposedly, San Francisco had Mingo near the top of its draft board for the same reason the Browns did -- he's physically gifted and quick. He's what their scouts want. They want to load up on pass-rushers and believe they have four at outside linebacker with Paul Kruger, Quentin Groves, Jabaal Sheard and Mingo. 4. They believe that in Ray Horton's 3-4 defense, they can line Mingo out wider than he played at LSU and take advantage of his speed. They also believe that he's athletic and smart enough to know how to drop into pass coverage. Bottom line: In this defense, they do not believe the switch from a 4-3 college end to a 3-4 outside linebacker will be a big adjustment. 5. They would have liked to have had the second-round pick, but they also like having Josh Gordon on the roster. The second round contained several cornerbacks who may become immediate starters. But they believe Mingo will be an impact player, and didn't want to miss a chance to take him simply to stack up more picks. 6. In the third round, they selected Leon McFadden, who started 45 games at San Diego State. They considered him a smart, polished cornerback who can play in several schemes. While McFadden missed the Senior Bowl with a groin injury, he looked strong in several practices and that made an impression -- the Browns already liked him for his college work. Yes, they wish McFadden didn't measure at slightly under 5-10, but they believe he can be a solid player. 7. The Browns hope McFadden can start, but he has to win the position. They have Joe Haden on one side. Buster Skrine and Chris Owens are the other cornerbacks. They believe Owens showed more what he could do in 2011 (playing 49 percent of the snaps) for Atlanta than in 2012, when he was on the field for only 24 percent. Owens had a concussion last season and also missed time with a hamstring injury. The Browns signed him to a one-year, $1 million deal. 8. The goal is for Owens and McFadden to play well enough to at least split some time at the position -- so that Skrine can focus on covering slot receivers. He did a decent job in that role last season. 9. In addition to several personal and drug problems, the Browns didn't see Tyrann Mathieu as a strong outside cover corner. Like most scouting reports, they had LSU's "Honey Badger" listed as a slot cover man and a superb returner. 10. They are very excited about adding receiver Davone Bess. They shuffled some picks with Miami, but didn't lose any. In any discussion of the draft, the Browns say Bess must be mentioned. He's averaged 64 catches over the past five seasons. He has an excellent track record of racking up first downs. 11. Bess is not a big-play guy or a touchdown maker, but he could become one of Brandon Weeden's best friends on third down. In the past five years, his 130 first-down grabs is second in the NFL. Last season, the Browns ranked 30th in third-down conversion at 31 percent. Bess will help. He also is a respected player who should be a good example for Greg Little, Josh Gordon and Travis Benjamin. Only 27, Bess should have productive seasons to come. 12. The coaches did like some of the things Benjamin has shown on tape and in the first minicamp. He is set to replace Joshua Cribbs as the main return main. They also signed David Nelson (recovering from knee surgery) as a slot receiver. Adding it all up, they have five receivers who should help: Little, Gordon, Bess, Benjamin and Nelson. Jordan Norwood and Josh Cooper are back, but I'm not sure how they fit unless there is an injury. About the lower draft moves ... 1. One of the myths surrounding the trade of a fourth-rounder to Pittsburgh (for a third-rounder in 2014) and fifth-rounder to the Colts (for a fourth-rounder in 2014) is that the new front office was using reports from the scouts of the Mike Holmgren/Tom Heckert regime -- and didn't trust the reports. One top operative became angry when I mentioned that, telling me: "We had all the information we needed. We did our homework. The scouts were not an issue when we came to the trades. We just didn't like the players available." 2. A little history lesson. Joe Banner knew he was the team's CEO from training camp. General Manager Mike Lombardi knew he'd be coming to the Browns during the season. These guys had more time to prepare for the 2013 draft than former GMs Phil Savage (hired in 2005) or Heckert (2010) when they had their first Cleveland drafts. Both joined the team after the season. 3. The Browns had a player in the upper level of the fourth round -- not sure who it was -- that they considered a starter. Once that player was picked, they were open to trading the 2013 pick for a better one in 2014. The Steelers made the deal to take Syracuse safety Shamarko Thomas. The Browns considered Thomas to be a T.J. Ward hard-hitting strong safety, and that's not what they needed. They also were a bit worried because he has a history of concussions. 4. In the fifth round, they saw no one as a starter -- and believed it simply made sense to add two more picks for the 2014 draft -- giving them six in the first four rounds. 5. Most teams had a third- or fourth-round grade on safety Jamoris Slaughter, picked in the sixth. The reason he dropped was the Achilles injury in Notre Dame's third game of the season. At the very least, they consider him a very good special teams player with the potential to be more. 6. Seventh-rounder Garrett Gilkey has added 70 pounds since enrolling at Division II power Chadron State and at 320, is a good developmental player for the offensive line. Guys like this sometimes become useful guards in the NFL. 7. Like most teams, the Browns view the seventh round as a place to take a gamble, which is why they also picked defensive lineman Armonty Bryant. They know he sold marijuana to an undercover policeman while at East Central (Okla.) University, resulting in a three-game suspension. They say they have checked him out and he's worth the minimal risk because they think he has NFL physical skills as a 263-pound pass rusher. web page First, this crap about not trusting the scouts Holmgren and Heckert brought in...pure BS excuses from a front office that was overwhelmed and inexperienced on draft day. Banner had a whole season to replace those guys if he didn't trust them...so to use that excuse now is rather weak. It looks like Banner and Lombardi did not have a plan B once the players they were targeting in rounds 4 and 5 were drafted ahead of the Browns.
On the trade with the Steelers, who took SS out of Syracuse, Shamarko Thomas...the Steelers plan to use him as a free safety as well as SS...because he has the speed and versatility to play both positions. Thomas ran a 4.38 at the combine on his first attempt, Thomas had a vertical of 40 1/2 inches and benched 225lbs 28 reps. The excuse that Thomas was just another SS won't fly either.
I'm not buying any of the excuses being floated to cover for Banner and Lombardi's inability to draft the talent this team needed "this year". The Browns draft was being run by a couple of rookies who like to talk a lot (Banner) about their "experience" in the draft room, but their results don't match the talk.
Banner and Lombardi were out of their league and had no plan to deal with a very common event...something as simple as the player Banner and Lombardi targeted got picked ahead of our turn.
I hope Haslam is smart enough to realize his new CEO and GM need help with the draft.
The key to building a team roster via the draft, hinges on the Browns ability to draft the best available talent, then mold them into the type of players the Browns need to overcome the other teams in the AFC North. If the Browns draft grade is last in our division, the chances of the Browns overcoming the Steelers, Ravens and Bengals becomes slimmer with each poor draft.
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First, this crap about not trusting the scouts Holmgren and Heckert brought in...pure BS excuses from a front office that was overwhelmed and inexperienced on draft day. Banner had a whole season to replace those guys if he didn't trust them...so to use that excuse now is rather weak. It looks like Banner and Lombardi did not have a plan B once the players they were targeting in rounds 4 and 5 were drafted ahead of the Browns.
Do you have a hard time w/reading comprehension? Look at this again. If you can't figure it out, let me know and I will decipher it for you.
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1. One of the myths surrounding the trade of a fourth-rounder to Pittsburgh (for a third-rounder in 2014) and fifth-rounder to the Colts (for a fourth-rounder in 2014) is that the new front office was using reports from the scouts of the Mike Holmgren/Tom Heckert regime -- and didn't trust the reports. One top operative became angry when I mentioned that, telling me: "We had all the information we needed. We did our homework. The scouts were not an issue when we came to the trades. We just didn't like the players available."
How in the world did you miss that?
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Wow, that's some serious hate!
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Lemme as you something mac ....... If the Browns felt that Thomas was worth their 4th round pick, then why would they pass on him? If they felt that Thomas was a starter quality player at FS, why would them pass on him when we seemingly have a need at that position? (and I say seemingly, because I don't see a screaming need there, with youngsters like Bademosi, Gipson, and Hagg returning to battle for the starting job) Would you have felt better if we would have taken Thomas, a SS with a history of concussions, and if so ....... would you, today, be criticizing this front office for taking a guy that doesn't fit, and with medical risks? No matter what Banner and Co. do, you aren't going to be happy. If Mingo has 20 sacks next year, you'll probably show up disappointed because it wasn't 25. If we win the Super Bowl, you'll probably have a problem with the way we did it.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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 You wanna hear something funny Mac.., when I read that article online this morning, I knew that at some point, you would either post it and rip it to pieces or just respond to it if someone else posted it. And then you'd rip it to pieces. Either way, I was reading it and thinking of you and how you'd spin it to fit your own agenda of hate. I want to personally thank you for not letting me down
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Come on ytown - you know our FO had no idea who Thomas was and assumed the steelers would take a punter if we traded our pick to them.....
<><
#gmstrong
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I know ..... and the reason they concentrated on Mingo was because he had a strange name they could remember. They threw a dart to select McFadden, and they got confused on Slaughter, thinking that he was related to Webster .....
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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It looks like Banner and Lombardi did not have a plan B once the players they were targeting in rounds 4 and 5 were drafted ahead of the Browns.
Actually, it looks like they did - trade the picks for future compensation.
And they carried that plan out.
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I am so glad that we aren't just piling on players just for the sake of adding players. I am glad that we appear ready to give some of the young guys a chance to work in the new offense and defense ... especially at positions like FS where I think we actually do have some talent.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I had the same copy n paste to try n set Mac straight on his total warped perception of the incompetence of the FO  I guess no need to n it speaks volumes on Mac n his total fear/hate not sure what it is exactly - on our new FO.
I tried to read a little about where the Steelers are looking to utilize him...all I got was that Lake looks to start him out playing SS but they expect him to play other positions in his future.
Mac...hopefully you see the error of perception n how it seems that you really have PRE-JUDGED our new FO. No matter what they will do - in your eyes it will be wrong...even in this case WHAT THEY HAVE NOT DONE  - all I hear is Gilda Radner in her Rosanna Danna voice sitting there with glasses on stating "NEVER MIND" as the only possible retort you can make.
JMHO - getting old Sucks Mac...me too!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
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It was "no myth" that the director of college scouting and two scouts were fired, right?
It's not a myth that Banner and Lombardi were getting hammered and questioned by the sports media, why they didn't use their 4th and 5th round draft picks, helping to earn the Browns the worst draft grade in the AFC North, right?
You seem to be assuming that the "top operative" Pluto was referring to, was Banner, Lombardi or Farmer.
Pluto didn't tell us who the top operative was for some reason.
If the top operative Terry Pluto is referring to was Banner, Lombardi or Farmer, why not identify yourself to Pluto to show support for your Browns scouting department?
We don't know where the comment came from either or how it ever made it into the media, even as a rumor...
...from the Pluto article..." the new front office was using reports from the scouts of the Mike Holmgren/Tom Heckert regime -- and didn't trust the reports"...
...was this an "in house" rumor...we don't know, do we?
But if Pluto's "top operative" was someone high up in the scouting department...defending the work his scouting department in the face of "in house" criticism...maybe someone who had just been fired, like John Spytek, director of college scouting or Pat Roberts, Senior National Scout, they might not want their name associated with the comment as they took a parting shot at "the brass".
It's easy to say it was all just "a myth"...but that doesn't mean a blame game was not going on within the Browns Player Personnel department.
Again, I can't think of one good reason why Banner, Lombardi or Farmer would not want their name associated with this comment...
"We had all the information we needed. We did our homework. The scouts were not an issue when we came to the trades. We just didn't like the players available."
...unless they were not the source of the comment.
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Your hate has no boundaries.
Pathetic.
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#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Your hate has no boundaries.
Pathetic.
vers...if you know who the "top operative" was...please share it with us.
Keep in mind, it was not just me that hammered Banner and Lombardi for the round 4 and 5 snafu...
I happen to believe Banner and Lombardi earned the D or C draft grades that most draft analysts gave them.
You must admit, if the Browns continue to earn the worst draft grade in the AFC North, it's not likely that the Browns pass the Steelers, Ravens or Bengals, and make it to the playoffs.
The hard part of the rebuild was the first 3 yrs of the 5 yr rebuilding plan. All Banner and Lombardi have to do is put the finishing touches on the 5 yr rebuilding plan started in 2010.
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"If the top operative Terry Pluto is referring to was Banner, Lombardi or Farmer, why not identify yourself to Pluto to show support for your Browns scouting department?"
Mac, a little off the point of your post but want to chime in anyways. Maybe I'm misreading you but are you saying Pluto doesn't know who the top operative is.? Like he met the guy in a dark corner in a parking garage as to not see his face?
Of course Pluto knows who it is. He talks to him regularly. It's one of his sources. He uses top operative to let us readers know its someone important without ruining his journalistic integrity by revealing who it is. If he did that he'd never get a job again as no one would trust him. We can speculate on who it is all we want. We"ll never know. But using top operative does make some sense that it could be one of the three you mentioned.
Tackles are tackles.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,503 Likes: 806 |
Quote:
We can speculate on who it is all we want. We"ll never know.
Deep Throat.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
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Quote:
Quote:
We can speculate on who it is all we want. We"ll never know.
Deep Throat.
Or Deep Threat
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
#gmstrong
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Joined: Mar 2013
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
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mac, once again---you are posting nonsense.
Please provide a quote from a Brown's FO person saying that they did not trust the scouts and that they were unprepared.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
Quote:
You must admit, if the Browns continue to earn the worst draft grade in the AFC North, it's not likely that the Browns pass the Steelers, Ravens or Bengals, and make it to the playoffs.
You must admit, draft grades are useless and are forced upon writers to generate clicks for websites.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,341 Likes: 98
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,341 Likes: 98 |
I think the Steelers will regret that trade come next years draft ... JMHO
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,856
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,856 |
Quote:
"
Mac, a little off the point of your post but want to chime in anyways. Maybe I'm misreading you but are you saying Pluto doesn't know who the top operative is.? Like he met the guy in a dark corner in a parking garage as to not see his face?
Mr Beeks
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,945 Likes: 352
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,945 Likes: 352 |
Quote:
I think the Steelers will regret that trade come next years draft ... JMHO
I hope they really regret giving a pick away to the Browns. I don't like to wish ill on anyone, so let me just hope that the Safety the Steelers drafted turns out to be exceedingly below average.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,311 Likes: 34
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,311 Likes: 34 |
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It's not a myth that Banner and Lombardi were getting hammered and questioned by the sports media, why they didn't use their 4th and 5th round draft picks, helping to earn the Browns the worst draft grade in the AFC North, right?
Personally, I am more than willing for you and Vers to battle this thing out as you wish. But sometimes when you read something a poster has written it causes a thought to race through your mind. You react to what you've read and that's all that I am doing here. Maybe this wasn't the critical element of your reasoning but you did include it in your rationale. To me its a specious piece of reasoning that spills over onto the rest of your argument. The opinion of sports writers and draft graders? Really? Including this as part of your objection to how the 4th and 5th round picks were handled cheapens your argument. Most fans and I include you in this, know the relative worthlessness of these grades. They only matter in the ether of internet blogs, message board post and tweets. They have no actual bearing on anything real related to player personnel.
Carry on....
Last edited by guard dawg; 05/08/13 04:51 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2013
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
mac, I am still waiting for that link.
You gonna be a man and apologize, or continue to be your usual self?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,503 Likes: 806
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,503 Likes: 806 |
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mac, I am still waiting for that link.
You gonna be a man and apologize, or continue to be your usual self?
Give it up man. I haven't even asked him for links. I have simply asked him to answer questions....about 100 questions ago. At this point I don't even waste my time.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
mac never answers questions. He asks questions of others and pushes relentlessly, even to the point of badgering, for them to answer him. But he doesn't answer questions posed to him.
If he responds at all it's with article quotes, that with a huge stretch of imagination can be twisted to appear to back him up. And if no one can see the connection between his posted quote and his claims, then he merely posts it again and again and again as if by repeated exposure it will magically change its meaning to make him right.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,945 Likes: 352
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,945 Likes: 352 |
I don't even bother reading 90% of what mac writes anymore.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,812 Likes: 932
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,812 Likes: 932 |
Quote:
I don't even bother reading 90% of what mac writes anymore.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
He's an easy punching bag; a tomato can, if you will.
Outside of that, his posts don't really have any value.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136 |
I feel bad for Mac...he's harmless he will make a point here n there. Its rather easy to debate him...too easy. And we all know he will NEVER CHANGE HIS MIND...no matter how obvious it is that he is wrong. I use to get upset, might have even got banned with a Aluminum Hat post...lol  now I view it as Mac being Mac n find it humorous n harmless.
Anyways as for the beating...yes, its deserved. Grades - these guys give grades for the draft. Next year when we make 9 picks n get 6 in the top 130. Our grades will be great even if they think we made bad picks by the shear volume of picks we did well in the DRAFT GRADES. Just like in the past where in 3 years 90% of our guys were out of football but because we had 9+ picks we were given HIGH GRADES 
First thing I stated after this draft was if we got a better than C grade from these Draftnicks I would be shocked simply because of the 5 picks.
Meanwhile the 49ers get praised for taking Lattimore in the 4th while we took Chris Faulk (OT w/Knee injuries) in the UDFA - but it was not a PICK it was a UDFA signing so I guess it don't count.
Also this draft was probably overall one of the weakest in a long long time. Had some decent depth in OL n CB but not much else. Next year is suppose to be a lot stronger draft. How is it not GOOD for our Long Term success to have nobody that we thought worthy this year to jump realistically 20 slots for next years draft. Also more incentive to beat the Steelers twice n get that Low 3rd round pick
And a 4th rounder from the Colts. But because it made our 2013 draft # 5 instead of 7 we punted nice catch phrase to glom onto Lombardi n Banner. We all know how the media loves the Steelers...so they won't ever say the words Browns "PLAYED" the Steelers with that trade. Which very well can be the case
I really like the late round picks n UDFA's we got - I think we did an excellent job of adding onto the young foundation that we had here. I will bridle my enthusiasm cause I'm considered a HOMER but inside me instead of a normal man not again type of feeling then I would post Positive. Inside of me...I'm giggling so I'll tone it down n just ENJOY IT! 
Bring the season on!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,458 Likes: 143
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,458 Likes: 143 |
Quote:
I feel bad for Mac...he's harmless he will make a point here n there. Its rather easy to debate him...too easy. And we all know he will NEVER CHANGE HIS MIND...no matter how obvious it is that he is wrong. I use to get upset, might have even got banned with a Aluminum Hat post...lol now I view it as Mac being Mac n find it humorous n harmless.
EO...well, welcome back to the board, old friend...I don't need you or anyone feeling sorry for me and anytime you want to debate me on a subject I post, feel free to do so.
Do I give up easily in a debate? NO...you might see that as an unflattering trait...I don't. If you are going to debate me, bring your facts and we will go around for a while, but if you are looking for someone to give up easily...that's not what I'm about.
I have no problem admitting if I'm wrong, if someone uses facts to back up their claim. But if someone is just using their opinion on a topic, to challenge me...well, I'm aloud to have an opinion too.
Someone uses the following in their signature line..."If everybody had like minds, we would never learn"....I kind of agree this logic.
It is true that I'm not a "follower" of anyone on this message board and I do not openly try to enlist followers like "some" I know on this board. If you are looking for someone to be a "follower"...that is not me.
So you (anyone) can take all the shots at me you want, I'll still be here.
If you are looking for someone who gives up easily and wants to be your lap dog...that not what I'm about.
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,812 Likes: 932
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,812 Likes: 932 |
Quote:
I have no problem admitting if I'm wrong...
I'll give you that.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
You have no problem admitting you are wrong? mac, this all started because you posted this: Quote:
First, this crap about not trusting the scouts Holmgren and Heckert brought in...pure BS excuses from a front office that was overwhelmed and inexperienced on draft day. Banner had a whole season to replace those guys if he didn't trust them...so to use that excuse now is rather weak. It looks like Banner and Lombardi did not have a plan B once the players they were targeting in rounds 4 and 5 were drafted ahead of the Browns.
The article clearly stated that the FO was NOT using that as an excuse. In fact, a source became angry about that RUMOR!!!!
I asked you to provide one quote from anyone in the FO who used the H and H's scouting department as an excuse. You did not do that. Fact is, you will never be able to do it because it NEVER FREAKING happened. That is a fact. Not an opinion.
You misread the initial article because you were reading through hate-filled eyes. You made a mistake. Admit it. Fact is, you can't. You never admit that you made a mistake. Instead, you'll probably post an article about the 1969 Steelers as proof that you are right. 
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Steelers and Colts Trade
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