|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 919
All Pro
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 919 |
The hard part of the rebuild was the first 3 yrs of the 5 yr rebuilding plan. All Banner and Lombardi have to do is put the finishing touches on the 5 yr rebuilding plan started in 2010. Then how do you explain Vegas posting the Browns with only five wins? You must be Mac da Greek. 
GO BROWNS!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136 |
Grrrrr.... 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 806 Likes: 5
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 806 Likes: 5 |
+1
also only 4 blue chippers how about jarvis jones he will outplay mingo.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 806 Likes: 5
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 806 Likes: 5 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 806 Likes: 5
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 806 Likes: 5 |
I have jarvis jones much higher on my board than mingo 14 sacks verses 5 ..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,662 Likes: 613
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,662 Likes: 613 |
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 806 Likes: 5
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 806 Likes: 5 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
What's up w/that Jackson dude?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
Quote:
I have jarvis jones much higher on my board than mingo 14 sacks verses 5 ..
And that translates to what? I could do the same thing but it doesn't always gauge what a players does when he's asked to do something different in the pro's.
I've seen many players with little production in college come in and tear things up..and I've seen the opposite.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136 |
Hate profiling but maybe a Steeler Troll - too much love for a team on the down turn.
Jarvis Jones??? I don't care about the Neck/Spine thing. It might come into play 5-7 years from now - has nothing to do with now n next 5 years. Just when he ran that slow n you take a 2nd look at the tape n all those Sacks/TFLs - It seemed a lot of System plays as Georgia had a "GREAT" defense which left Jones untouched. I didn't see the explosion to remotely beat an NFL LT or for the most part most RT (well at least ours  ) I see him running downhill n getting an untouched hole n possibly then beating a FB or RB getting his sack. I just didn't see that 10 yard explosion to make up for that lack of Speed.
Also I wonder if Jones drank a lot of water to boost up his weight at the combine maybe hurting some of that speed (pro day not much improvement if IRCC) but I like how Mingo is OH TOO LIGHT but super quick n Jones is just fine at 245???
We are not going to put too much on Mingo this season but I'm sure he will be matching that 245 by Sept. 1st.
Point blank I see us improving our LOS n the Steelers already at a negative there really not helping it much...So UN Steeler like to ignore the LOS - our benefit and now we got their 3rd round pick in 2014...lol Maybe an Early one
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 806 Likes: 5
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 806 Likes: 5 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 806 Likes: 5
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 806 Likes: 5 |
you guys are on jones over mingo this year I just call them as i see them
buy the way I lived in monterey california when the immaculate reception took place I hate the steelers more then you guys can a guy give a honest opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 806 Likes: 5
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 806 Likes: 5 |
I am sorry I like lineman that can tackle not run..
nfldraftcountdown said jones will be better than mingo.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 806 Likes: 5
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 806 Likes: 5 |
ditto nfldraftcountdown jones will be a better lb (truthfully just to lighten things up here I hope i am wrong but i know what i have seen)than mingo.
the biggest problem mingo will face a 6-5 340 pulling guard running right at him him on 3 and 4.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136 |
Well at least you didn't say you were there for the DRIVE and THE FUMBLE...lol Raider fan I presume???
Anyways...honest opinions are accepted but they don't have to be 100% negative. And possibly somewhat correct if you are going to slam the Browns n praise the Steelers.
I've seen 14 sacks vs. 5 sacks as a Signed Sealed n Done in regards to the argument. Meanwhile for the first time in a long time I see the Steelers actually scrambling. I think the Jarvis pick was a little desperate. I thought the world of Jarvis as I watched his Hilight reel. Then when he ran a 4.9??? What 1st round OGs n OTs run. I'm like ok 40 time isn't everything but still 4.9???? Wow. Thought ok maybe something happened - tweaked the hammy something but he did not redeem himself on his Proday. Although not the end all of stats...its all about Transitioning what you see in college into the NFL. The biggest difference is the Over all speed of every player in the NFL to college...will he beable to transition that game to NFL. So as mentioned when I went back n studied him more n more. It sort of showed that he was not as explosive as his Highlight reel indicated. 3-4 OLB is ALL ABOUT EXPLOSION!
I think the Steelers reached BIG TIME.
I saw us actually get the better of the Steelers in a draft day trade. As Banner stated - hey not all trades are Win Win...so its always better if you make a trade n you get the Better of it! I think its obvious we got the better of it. 3rd rounder in a stronger draft class vs. 4th rounder in a weak draft class??? Our benefits will come in 2014. Out of sight out of mind...2013 of course the Steelers look like they did something good n not good for us...well when 2014 comes around then who has the upper hand on this deal
Nice to see us not only catching up to the Steelers but possibly surpassing them (all up to how Weeden plays). Big Ben is getting older n cannot with stand the punishment he gets I see him breaking down earlier n earlier.
But then all this should make you Happy cause you hate the Steelers as much as we do 
I see not an Honest Opinion. I see one negative post about the Browns after another. I mean I know I'm a HOMER...but nothing is THAT BAD.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 47
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 47 |
Haha is Jacksondawg just talking to himself? Saying ditto to your own posts? haha
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 806 Likes: 5
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 806 Likes: 5 |
well first of all if you read the the post above I said I hope I am wrong but that is not what I see.
2 I also route for the denver broncos I get to see a real organization in action.
3 mike lombardi and banner were both run out of town another negative.
4 If you look at my draft before the mingo pick you see that there was hope for the browns.
In conclusion even if mingo pans out teams are going to flat pound us like we are 13 year old kids playing against the varsity.
If you saw ray horton defense the bully boys took his speed defense out side to the woodshead and beat them within a inch of there life.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 47
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 47 |
Quote:
Hate profiling but maybe a Steeler Troll - too much love for a team on the down turn.
Jarvis Jones??? I don't care about the Neck/Spine thing. It might come into play 5-7 years from now - has nothing to do with now n next 5 years. Just when he ran that slow n you take a 2nd look at the tape n all those Sacks/TFLs - It seemed a lot of System plays as Georgia had a "GREAT" defense which left Jones untouched. I didn't see the explosion to remotely beat an NFL LT or for the most part most RT (well at least ours ) I see him running downhill n getting an untouched hole n possibly then beating a FB or RB getting his sack. I just didn't see that 10 yard explosion to make up for that lack of Speed.
Also I wonder if Jones drank a lot of water to boost up his weight at the combine maybe hurting some of that speed (pro day not much improvement if IRCC) but I like how Mingo is OH TOO LIGHT but super quick n Jones is just fine at 245???
We are not going to put too much on Mingo this season but I'm sure he will be matching that 245 by Sept. 1st.
Point blank I see us improving our LOS n the Steelers already at a negative there really not helping it much...So UN Steeler like to ignore the LOS - our benefit and now we got their 3rd round pick in 2014...lol Maybe an Early one
JMHO
This is exactly right. Jarvis Jones got many of his sacks due to his system. I read a stat that said he got like 9 of his sacks on plays in which Georgia blitzed 6+ defenders. A lot of the sacks I saw him get were him coming completely untouched.
Having said that, unfortunately I think he will be a pretty good player. And he fits the Steelers' scheme perfectly. Although he isnt very explosive for a pass rusher he uses his hands VERY well.
Doesnt come close to having the potential Mingo does though. And the weight thing is a non issue for Mingo. I think its hilarious that people are so concerned with this. I bet you he starts the year around 250lbs.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
nfldraftcountdown said jones will be better than mingo.
Well then, that settles it!
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
What's up w/that Jackson dude?
very similar writing style, tone, and type of comments to a poster who has been repeatedly banned and created new identities over and over before (Kendall Storm was one of those)
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
I love how Jarvis Jones plays. He isn't as strong as Mingo, but he has better natural football instincts IMO. He is great at making the tackles in space (though can get blocked out of a play) and he (like Mingo) never gives up on a play.
Really, I think the slightly lesser frame plus the worry about the spinal stenosis (you pay that much money, then it is a worry and I think why he dropped to Pitt) was the reason he fell. I think he'll be a good player as well, but hope that Mingo proves better.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 47
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 47 |
Agree with all of this.
I think that Jarvis Jones will step in as a 3 down player right away. He is a more polished football player right now. Especially since he already played in a 3-4. Honestly when the Steelers picked him I wasnt happy. I think he will be a very good player.
But Mingo will end up being a better player IMO. I just think he needs some good coaching and I believe he will fit in as a 3-4 LB MUCH better than he did a DE at LSU. And he was so under-utilized at LSU its ridiculous. Someone with his skill set should not be used as a glorified spy.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
Quote:
ditto nfldraftcountdown jones will be a better lb (truthfully just to lighten things up here I hope i am wrong but i know what i have seen)than mingo.
the biggest problem mingo will face a 6-5 340 pulling guard running right at him him on 3 and 4.
Jones would have that problem too,don't out think the situation.
No secret that Mingo is lightweight .Bur he's going to be used more as a edger usher than someone brought in to stuff the run.
Lets wait and see how they're used and actually what they do.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 47
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 47 |
Quote:
Quote:
ditto nfldraftcountdown jones will be a better lb (truthfully just to lighten things up here I hope i am wrong but i know what i have seen)than mingo.
the biggest problem mingo will face a 6-5 340 pulling guard running right at him him on 3 and 4.
Jones would have that problem too,don't out think the situation.
No secret that Mingo is lightweight .Bur he's going to be used more as a edger usher than someone brought in to stuff the run.
Lets wait and see how they're used and actually what they do.
Mingo will most likely be used as a situational pass rusher like Aldon Smith or Bruce Irvin. And I imagine Jarvis will come in and start right away.
But just because Mingo wont start and Jarvis will, doesnt meant that Jarvis will automatically have more of an impact.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,952 Likes: 352
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,952 Likes: 352 |
I actually think that Jarvis Jones will be "spotted" to start with, because the Steelers already have Woodley and Worilds at OLB. Heck, Worilds had 5 sacks last year for the Steelers in limited duty. They will put Jones in position to succeed, probably as a situational rusher to start with.
I think that Worilds real weakness is in pass coverage. He seems to be a fairly solid tackler, and is a solid pass rusher. I don't think that Jones is going to upgrade the pass coverage.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447 |
Jones just doesn't have enough fire for me. He shys from contact. Runs away from blockers and has really terrible pursuit. I think he's polished. He knows how to get sacks and he can tackle. The only reason he'll bust is hes incredibly lazy. There will always be a spot for a guy who can get 8-12 sacks a year. I think he's best used as a weapon not as a star.
He'll be a good complimentary rusher who can drop and read coverage well. I think he might actually be an ILB for Pitt. Salvage his career because he isn't the OLB people think he is. Like they did with Timmons. No one thought he'd be an ILB after being a light edge rusher at FSU.
But to think he has anywhere near the upside or fire that Mingo has is absurd. Mingo gives more effort, more heart, more pursuit, more ferocious hands, more speed, more power, more length and more brains. Mingo has every blue chip quality you have to have from an edge rusher to be a freak. When he grows into his body and hones his hands for tackling and battling I have no doubt in my mind he much if any less of a player than DeMarcus Ware.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 806 Likes: 5
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 806 Likes: 5 |
I was there in the game before the drive bernie last minute comeback with a pass to webstar slaughter.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 806 Likes: 5
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 806 Likes: 5 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
Quote:
nfldraftcountdown said jones will be better than mingo.
Well then, that settles it!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
I think this is a good read for Jone's luvers..
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/05/01/jarvis-jones-buyer-beware/
More than that, watching Mingo's numbers and you saying we would have gone after Collins in a trade down scenario....this really explains that Banner and company are all in on football sabermetrics. Not sure this stuff works as well in football as it does in baseball, but I hope he is right...he better be
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 806 Likes: 5
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 806 Likes: 5 |
excellent analysis the thing i like most about jones is how he reacts in coverage,
Not sure but I believe he may have lead college in interceptions,
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Lead college in interceptions? 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 806 Likes: 5
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 806 Likes: 5 |
yes I think he may have lead linebackers in picks.
due you see his stats or are you just trolling?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,466 Likes: 144
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,466 Likes: 144 |
vers...you seem to be defining a "myth" and "rumor" as a flat out lie or untruth...which is not the definition of either word.
One definition of myth is...a half-truth...
You refer to "myth" as a "RUMOR" ...and again, you seem to imply that a rumor is a total untruth...but that is not the definition of the word.
rumor-
1: talk or opinion widely disseminated with no discernible source
2: a statement or report current without known authority for its truth
My take on the use of the word "myth" by Terry Pluto...the source didn't want his/her name associated with comment OR Pluto didn't know the source of this comment...
...."the new front office was using reports from the scouts of the Mike Holmgren/Tom Heckert regime -- and didn't trust the reports."
I did not consider the comment as being false...you seem to believe it was 100% false.
The first time I read the comment was in Pluto's article. Pluto had information and sources that he was not willing to identify, but he still felt it was necessary to print the comment I quoted above, without naming sources.
The part about the "top operative" denying the Pluto's report...we don't know who the "top operative" is, do we?
....I thought the source might be someone from the scouting department, since the comment was about the scouting reports.
....you seem to believe the "top operative" was Banner, Lombardi or Farmer. If it was one of these 3, why not allow Pluto to use your name as the source, knocking down the rumor?
Bottom line, there is room for readers to come to different conclusions...different opinions...concerning the anonymous comments in Pluto's article that have to do with scouting reports and top operatives. You are entitled to your opinion...BUT, so am I.
If you can bring facts to the discussion that identify the sources in question, I have no problem admitting I'm wrong. But, if you simply have a differing opinion of Pluto's story...so be it.
Terry Pluto's Talkin' ... about the Browns' draft rationale,
About the lower draft moves ...
May 04, 2013
1. One of the myths surrounding the trade of a fourth-rounder to Pittsburgh (for a third-rounder in 2014) and fifth-rounder to the Colts (for a fourth-rounder in 2014) is that the new front office was using reports from the scouts of the Mike Holmgren/Tom Heckert regime -- and didn't trust the reports. One top operative became angry when I mentioned that, telling me: "We had all the information we needed. We did our homework. The scouts were not an issue when we came to the trades. We just didn't like the players available."
2. A little history lesson. Joe Banner knew he was the team's CEO from training camp. General Manager Mike Lombardi knew he'd be coming to the Browns during the season. These guys had more time to prepare for the 2013 draft than former GMs Phil Savage (hired in 2005) or Heckert (2010) when they had their first Cleveland drafts. Both joined the team after the season.
3. The Browns had a player in the upper level of the fourth round -- not sure who it was -- that they considered a starter. Once that player was picked, they were open to trading the 2013 pick for a better one in 2014. The Steelers made the deal to take Syracuse safety Shamarko Thomas. The Browns considered Thomas to be a T.J. Ward hard-hitting strong safety, and that's not what they needed. They also were a bit worried because he has a history of concussions.
4. In the fifth round, they saw no one as a starter -- and believed it simply made sense to add two more picks for the 2014 draft -- giving them six in the first four rounds.
5. Most teams had a third- or fourth-round grade on safety Jamoris Slaughter, picked in the sixth. The reason he dropped was the Achilles injury in Notre Dame's third game of the season. At the very least, they consider him a very good special teams player with the potential to be more.
6. Seventh-rounder Garrett Gilkey has added 70 pounds since enrolling at Division II power Chadron State and at 320, is a good developmental player for the offensive line. Guys like this sometimes become useful guards in the NFL.
7. Like most teams, the Browns view the seventh round as a place to take a gamble, which is why they also picked defensive lineman Armonty Bryant. They know he sold marijuana to an undercover policeman while at East Central (Okla.) University, resulting in a three-game suspension. They say they have checked him out and he's worth the minimal risk because they think he has NFL physical skills as a 263-pound pass rusher.
web page
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 806 Likes: 5
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 806 Likes: 5 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Manti Te'o led FBS linebackers with 7 INTs in 2012.
Kiko Alonso of Oregon, Nathan Herrold of Ark. State, Dion Bailey of USC, and Eddie Lackey of Baylor were second with 4.
Jarvis Jones, in 3 collegiate seasons, has 1 total INT.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136 |
Quote:
the worry about the spinal stenosis (you pay that much money, then it is a worry and I think why he dropped to Pitt) was the reason he fell.
No Logo...you really think that. Not that for the fact of a 245 Speed Edge rusher running a 4.9 as a flag that maybe he isn't as fast (for the NFL) as he looks on tape against (slower college players?) I mean Suggs dropped to a lot of teams with his slow run (not as slow as Jones) but he gained like 15 lbs in a month for the Combine.
I think personnel departments went back to their tapes n saw signs that Jones will not succeed like they thought he did.
Also thank you for recognizing his lack of size. Many here are saying Mingo skinny this n Mingo skinny that. While there is like 5-7 lbs between the two.
Clevesteve...really?
Wow that blows a big Credibility hole into this poster jacksondog. Don't care if you are a Browns fan, Steelers or Bronco fan. Its all about football discussion which is welcomed from anywhere. But when you state stuff to another poster to look at the facts on your claim about Jarvis leading all college LBs in INTS. What thinking we are dummies here n won't check. These guys Negative Positive don't matter all get into their football n have no problems looking into Statistics!
ONE FREAKING INT in his entire college Career???
"Jarvis Jones, in 3 collegiate seasons, has 1 total INT.  "
Sorry you smell like a Steeler Troll - the odor is strong 
Probably about as wrong as a poster can get in a claim 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Steelers and Colts Trade
|
|
