|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 848
Dawg Talker
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 848 |
Do yourself a favor and read my article that's a couple posts above. Let me know what you learned about what was asked of Frye. IT actually goes hand in hand with Vers statement (paraphrased) "They asked an awful lot out of a young QB. Rather than protecting a youngster like you should"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Which would do what exactly? Change my mind? 
The same physical limitations that caused me to seriously question the pick two years ago are the same limitations that cause me to question him now. I see nothing on the field or in the numbers that would lead me to change that opinion. I maintain the same hope for Frye that I had when we drafted him, but I rate his chances of making it as a starter even more remote than when he was selected, simply because he's shown some serious deficiencies as a thrower.
To be blunt, I feel his chances of making it are better than those of Tim Couch back in the day, but not by much. Only his wheels make him worth the time to hope that his throwing issues can be overcome.
Afterall, he ain't no Garcia 
Nobody says he should have done more with how sadly the line blocked, but just like Couch, it's not what he couldn't do when the circumstances were bad, it's what he couldn't do when the circumstances were right.
Sadly, I think if a QB is there when we pick, Frye becomes a lame duck starter/instant backup. The ultimate irony is that as a backup he's above average and makes this team instantly better.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 848
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 848 |
You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. You say he shows no improvement due to a 72 rating again - yet you choose to ignore the fact that he threw 5 ints while being down by 17 or more points. His int's didn't cause us to go down by 17 - they were thrown when we were down by 17. Knock those 5 off and what's his rating? 77.5. He did the job when he was given a fair shake (Oakland, NYJ, Atlanta, Pitt, Bal, etc.). Did you know when Frye started under Davidson the Browns went 3-4, he completed 67% of his passes and his rating was 77.3? That's only due to a hail mary int and an int with 3 minutes left from their own 12 down by 30. He threw it out of frustration. Knock only those 2 off (both meaningless - that's undeniable) and his rating is 81. The kid is much better than people gie him credit for. It's about time we give a QB a line. As for Garcia - you loved him when we signed him. Unlike others, I won't allow you to ride the fence and fall on the popular side.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,414
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,414 |
Quote:
it's what he couldn't do when the circumstances were right.
That wasn`t often....and if the circumstances were right for him.....it usually wrong for the receiver who was dropping the ball....or missing a route....
And having MO as an OC.......enough said.......
Quote:
The ultimate irony is that as a backup he's above average and makes this team instantly better.
Indeed he does.......now this team has to put players on the field that can do the same..........make it better 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,723
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,723 |
Quote:
Maybe I should just concede defeat by blaming every single woe on this team since 1999 on the O-Line and just go back to the corner and color...
You dropped your mauve crayon.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,711
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,711 |
Quote:
Lets just pretend that the Browns draft a Jamarcus Russell on Draft Day and the Browns decide to trade Charlie Frye..how many teams would be seriously intrested in trading for Frye?
who the heck knows? and what the heck has russell done yet?
the only thing i can say with 100% certainty is some team is gonna spend alot more cash on him then we will ever spend on frye to find out...
look, i'm not saying that frye is anything great...i certainly don't know...he's obviously doesn't fit the prototypical qb mold or he would have went higher than he did....he has issues and problems...
what i was trying to infer is that the whole offense is a mess....take your pick where....
if we had stability at most of the facets of our offense i.e the line, some vet recievers that run good routes, a decent running game...and most of all some stablity in our scheme (the same coordinatior and playbook for 2-3 years) then you would be in a position to look at one facet of the offense and say we have a problem...
as it stands i find it hard for the average fan to make heads or tails of the mess that we see on offense...
the coaches grade the players and they know everyones responsibilities on a given play....if they take frye out, or start someone else then fine...
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 848
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 848 |
Quote:
Quote:
Maybe I should just concede defeat by blaming every single woe on this team since 1999 on the O-Line and just go back to the corner and color...
You dropped your mauve crayon.
You worry me that you busted out the color "mauve." Please tell me you wouldn't recognize that color in a line-up.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,723
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,723 |
I would recognize it in a heart beat  just like I recognize the fact that our poor O-line from 1999 to 2006 made anybody lining up in your backfield look worse than they really were.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 848
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 848 |
Quote:
I would recognize it in a heart beat just like I recognize the fact that our poor O-line from 1999 to 2006 made anybody lining up in your backfield look worse than they really were.
I don't know what mauve is,but I do know you are 100% correct in your assessment of our o-line.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,414
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,414 |
Quote:
I do know you are 100% correct in your assessment of our o-line.
Dang GM...your finally 100% correct....damn proud of ya... 
Seriously....Our QB`s are thrown to the pits of obliviation.........
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 848
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 848 |
Quote:
Quote:
I do know you are 100% correct in your assessment of our o-line.
Dang GM...your finally 100% correct....damn proud of ya...
Seriously....Our QB`s are thrown to the pits of obliviation.........
It would have only been 90% correct, but any man who knows what mauve is scares me. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,414
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,414 |
Quote:
It would have only been 90% correct, but any man who knows what mauve is scares me.
lmao....thats gm for ya.......soup
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
You've always chosen to pick and choose how you manipulate stats. You give people who know how to use stats a bad name  It doesn't work like that.
Here's just one example in the long line of examples: Quote:
That's only due ... an int with 3 minutes left from their own 12 down by 30. He threw it out of frustration.
That's called an "excuse."
Quote:
Unlike others, I won't allow you to ride the fence and fall on the popular side.
Hehehe..........So you want to take a reasonable, logical mind........a mind that knows the world is only shades of grey, not truely black and white........and force it to pick a side? 
Regardless of that bit of silliness, I've been on the negative side of Frye since the day we drafted him. In fact, I've been against his selection since before that day. The only thing that has surprised me in a good way about Frye is his escapability and mobility. Outside of that, I see less in him than what I'd read about during the Senior Bowl week.
Now you can choose to fight the good fight with Frye, and I'll continue to say the odds are against him. Unlike Couch, whom I KNEW would fail, I think Frye still has a chance, albeit a small one. I'd rather that we took someone besides a QB, but that isn't my choice.
You should know that Vers and I often take the Devils Advocate's side of things just to stir debate and conversation while calling out the unreasonable, so don't mistake his comments as fully endorsing Chuck, hehe. We both like the kid while realizing he has some serious deficiencies as a passer. Kosar was the exception, not the rule, and players like him come along once every 20 years. Is Frye that guy? Highly unlikely. He'll have to get by on scrambling and improv as it just doesn't appear he has the game as a pure passer.
Feel free to spin stats to make your case. Maybe some will buy it. More power to'em. However, my eyes have told me Couch was a poor bet and that Garcia still had something in the tank. Those same eyes tell me that Frye is a longshot, and my logical mind tells me that the organization no longer loves him as our QB. His time is nearly over. Like Mo before him, Chuck only has a handful of games to turn the corner as a passer, and I agree with that line of thinking. Sadly, I think they have much more hope for Derek Anderson than I do, and that doesn't help Chuck's case.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,877
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,877 |
The infamous Toad vs. Soup war saga continues...
Good to have you back, Soup
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,795
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,795 |
I am still in the "we need to wait and see" on Frye.
I like the mobility and escapability that he offers. Sure, he may not have the arm, but his arm appears to be good enough.
Truth is as a 3rd rounder he should not have sniffed the field until this year. So we have a mixed bag of work to deal with, mostly bad because of the terrible team that surrounded him. Savage made the point is that he did not expect Frye to carry the Browns and Frye was not able to turn mud into gold.
Maybe I still have some hangover from the second quarter of the Baltimore game, but Frye is not as bad as many portray him.
I actually would enjoy seeing a breakout season.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!…. That did not age well.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
I am still in the "we need to wait and see" on Frye.
As am I. The difference between myself and many others is that I no longer think we can afford not to have an insurance policy on board. If that means drafting someone, fine. If it means trading for someone, fine. If it means signing a free agent, fine, but entering his 3rd year, it's now or never. If Frye can't handle some competition, he's not an NFL starter, and that's about the only excuse that exists for not bringing in someone else.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,795
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,795 |
The only quandry that I have is the cover of the insurance policy.
If it is Green, Frye is on the bench.
The rest of the available QB's are generally too risky/costly (Carr) or don't interest me as much as Frye does.
I would rather invest a year more in Frye than bring in Rattay or Harrington or ____ anyone else.
So the Browns go out and get Thomas or Peterson and hope for the best.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!…. That did not age well.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,455
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,455 |
Quote:
Django, I'm not calling you on this. That isn't my point. I'm simply stating that it's possible for any QB to have a good game or two, but that true improvement is established through consistent performances.
'Toad I know your responding to Django so please excuse the intrusion, but everyone,, all of us,, you, me and the entire bunch of us keep talking about Frye either showing some improvement or not.
What we continuly forget to mention (I'm just as guilty by the way) is that the Line didn't improve, the running game didn't improve and the receivers (except for KW2) didn't improve either.. How is all of that the QB's fault.
We as a group of fans (well, not all of us, but most) continue to hammer at Frye did this and Frye did that... IT'S a TEAM SPORT! There is way more to it than simply asking "did Frye show improvement"!
Soup,, I was trying to get that point across about a week ago, didn't work for me,, I got flamed for saying that some of the INT's that Frye tossed were as a result of something other then him being a dork! 
Didn't matter, you won't convince some people of his value no matter how logical your argument may appear.. Some people just don't believe that he's the one to lead the Browns.. Which is, of course a matter of opinion and they are free, as am I, to express it as they wish.
I. myself have concerns over his ability as well.. I'm not 100% convinced either. The difference between me and others is, I'm attempting to look at the entire picture and see if he is the only culprit in the mess,,, Clearly, he is not.
So how do you fairly judge his ability with so much else wrong with the team?
The answer is, you can't do it FAIRLY! That's all I've been trying to get across to people,,, I'm sorry to report, I have not convinced a single person,,, Either I'm totally wrong or they are! Time will tell!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 601
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 601 |
Quote:
That's all I've been trying to get across to people,,, I'm sorry to report, I have not convinced a single person,,, Either I'm totally wrong or they are! Time will tell!
And the truth sadly may lie somewhere in between...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
As am I. The difference between myself and many others is that I no longer think we can afford not to have an insurance policy on board. If that means drafting someone, fine. If it means trading for someone, fine. If it means signing a free agent, fine, but entering his 3rd year, it's now or never. If Frye can't handle some competition, he's not an NFL starter, and that's about the only excuse that exists for not bringing in someone else.
Well Toad.....I agree...I have no problem at all to bring somebody else in.....I´m all for your boy Rattay btw
Green and Carr want to start, they won´t accept a competition to play for the Browns, if they sign they will be assured to start...that´s why I don´t want them...it´s just to early to give up on Frye and neither Green or Carr are "the solution" anyway
So, it´s not that Frye couldn´t handle the competition....it´s the vets....do you really think Carr or Green sign a contract with the 4-12 Browns to be in a competition? I don´t think so...and even if they do....if they sign, they´ll get 4-6mil/year and they know they are going to start
I´m not a Frye coddler...he has to earn his job...If Anderson beats him, he should be the starter...I´m all for competition...but bringing in Green or Carr wouldn´t be "fair" competition like it would be with Anderson, Rattay imho...not because of abilitiy but $$....if we bring in Green or Carr there simply is no competition anymore
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 602
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 602 |
Quote:
Green and Carr want to start, they won´t accept a competition to play for the Browns, if they sign they will be assured to start...that´s why I don´t want them...it´s just to early to give up on Frye and neither Green or Carr are "the solution" anyway
I can't speak for Green because I have not read to much about his situation, but I do know this...........Carr visited Carolina on Tuesday and was scheduled to leave for Seattle Wednesday. I don't believe he would be the Starter on either one of those teams, I'd say both Delhomme and Hasselback are pretty entrenched as Starters on thier respective teams (although there have been rumblings in Charlotte about Delhomme).
Maybe Carr is looking for a Team with a decent line and a QB that can start the season and give him a chance to regain his confidence and heal from the beating he has taken the past several yrs.? Maybe a two yr. deal with a option on the third?
Again, just thinking out loud here about Carr, but either way, it doesn't look like Cleveland is even on his radar right now.
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
Go ARMY......Beat Navy!!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
Do yourself a favor and read my article that's a couple posts above. Let me know what you learned about what was asked of Frye. IT actually goes hand in hand with Vers statement (paraphrased) "They asked an awful lot out of a young QB. Rather than protecting a youngster like you should"
 Charlie made some bad decisions...More than bad decisions imo. Charlie made 'MANY' not just a few and continued throughout the course of the year.
It got to the point where they had to dumb down the offense and not let him throw deep and limit his attempts. I didn't see improvement either. His rating got better 'when' they took the ball out of his hands and tried to run more.
Also D.A. with far less experience showed how to read defenses and burn them when detecting blitzes, something I didn't see in Charlie after a seasons worth of games. Charlie was slow in recognizing his open receivers and seeing the entire field.
Charlie also made it harder on the OCs as well. Without being able to stretch the field defense's were able to load up and rush knowing Charlie wasn't going to beat them. This hampered the running game and limited what could be run.
He locks onto receivers, makes poor decisions, struggles reading defenses, and most importantly doesn't have the arm to make all the throws. When you have the big play threats like BE and KW2 getting a disproportionately large number of their catches on short routes, it's cause for alarm. These guys aren't being used properly, and it's because we don't have a QB.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,851
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,851 |
Quote:
His rating got better 'when' they took the ball out of his hands and tried to run more.
there u go.. The Browns need to be a running team anyway!!! pound the rock and the QB will stay healthy!! pound the rock, and i bet u the Browns move down the field.. Pound the rock with both Lewis and Peterson.. Pound the rock, and watch the Browns average score per game go up.. Pound the rock, and watch our defense stay energized for the entire game, and the entire seasson... basically.. POUND THE ROCK!! RUN THE BALL!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
No there you go..because that should tell you something which is the key..
He's got to make plays sooner or later..the running game will not solve everything..
Teams will load up the box and stuff the run ..KNOWING FRYE CANNOT DEFEAT them..and when he's forced to throw , all those other factors come into play...it's really that simple..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,851
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,851 |
man.. im not talking about running the ball 100% of the time... but the majority of the time.. and when they wanna stack the box.. thats when we can hit up Winslow over the top, thats when we can run screens and use the speed in Harrison/ Peterson (if we get him) to out run the LB's, and then the best thing about it.. if they stack 8 in the box.. that means one on one coverage most likely.. and I like Frye throwing to one on one coverage than to a double team...
I mean really? would u rather Frye throw the ball all day? where he is not that experienced? or would u rather run the ball with two stellar athletes, one who is proven, a str8 mauler, and the other who is claimed to be the next Dickerson (by some).
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
While I want to be able to run the ball..I want a offense where my QB is a threat..and defensives can't just scheme to make to make him throw.
If a defense doesn't fear my QB..it's hopeless..they will take away the run and force him to make mistakes.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,851
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,851 |
Quote:
While I want to be able to run the ball..I want a offense where my QB is a threat..and defensives can't just scheme to make to make him throw.
If a defense doesn't fear my QB..it's hopeless..they will take away the run and force him to make mistakes.
um.. i think thats what they are doing now.. and the Browns DONT have a running game... thats how they scheme to make him throw.. cuz the Browns had no other option but Winslow and Braylon... Droughns was garbage...
u telling me that teams scheme to make Rivers throw, or they scheme to try and stop LT?? teams with excellent running games, defenses focus on the RB's... not the QB.. and that is when the QB can do his thing and try to make simple solid passes...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
Quote:
Also D.A. with far less experience showed how to read defenses and burn them when detecting blitzes, something I didn't see in Charlie after a seasons worth of games. Charlie was slow in recognizing his open receivers and seeing the entire field.
Charlie also made it harder on the OCs as well. Without being able to stretch the field defense's were able to load up and rush knowing Charlie wasn't going to beat them. This hampered the running game and limited what could be run.
He locks onto receivers, makes poor decisions, struggles reading defenses, and most importantly doesn't have the arm to make all the throws. When you have the big play threats like BE and KW2 getting a disproportionately large number of their catches on short routes, it's cause for alarm. These guys aren't being used properly, and it's because we don't have a QB.
Look...........you are either not telling the truth when you say you like Charlie or you don't know squat about quarterbacks. I actually hope it's the latter.
Some of you guys are regurgitating the same things over and over to the point that people are believing it.
Once again, I am not sold on Charlie Frye, but it bothers me when people make things up. You guys should go read the thread about Montana and Quinn in the Draft forum. Perhaps you will learn something.
*L* I doubt it.
Hmmmm.........I was just thinking about something. It's amazing how you all go from blaming one person to another. First it was Dilfer.......then it was Mo........now it's Charlie......next it will be RAC.
Meanwhile, the guy who assembled the talent remains untouched. And the owner who keeps making ludicrous management decisions is left alone.
Odd.........very odd.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
LT is a different animal..teams know he's the biggest threat regardless of the QB.
He can only be contained ..not stopped..
Rivers is developing into their offense..
When you look at Cleveland...do teams fear what Frye can do?
That said when the draft is over we'll know whats going to happen to Frye..if no QB is taken and hopefully the Oline is addressed further they're giving him one last chance to get it ..
And that would be fair IMO..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 04/05/07 08:52 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 602
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 602 |
Quote:
When you look at Cleveland...do teams fear what Frye can do?
Hell, Attack, Teams don't fear ANYONE on our offense right now.
They don't have to worry about putting 8 men in the box to stop the run, because they can stop it pretty easily with our weak line and weak RB.
They don't have to worry about any threat of a deep passing attack because they can get pressure without blitzing ANYONE.
They don't have to really worry about Edwards or Winslow because Charlie doens't have time to get them the ball.
The EASIEST way to fix this problem is to establish a RUNNING GAME. By doing that opposing teams cannot just tee-off on the QB with thier DL, the linemen must check down on the run first. By doing that opposing teams must "stack-the-box" on second and short or third and short. By doing that opposing teams must have thier DB's check the backfield for a draw or screen. All of those allow for an extra second or two for our QB (whomever it is) to "read" the D.
Now several on here debate the BEST way to establish that running game, wether by Thomas and a first day RB or Peterson and a first day OLineman, but I "think" we agree that we NEED a running game to establish any type of a threat.
Our passing game cannot be fixed right away easily, our running game can. I just feel it's easier to fix a teams running game than it is to fix a teams passing attack.
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
Go ARMY......Beat Navy!!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,455
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,455 |
Quote:
It got to the point where they had to dumb down the offense
OMG,,, you don't know that for a fact yet you state it as one... Yikes, what is this world coming to
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,851
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,851 |
Quote:
Quote:
It got to the point where they had to dumb down the offense
OMG,,, you don't know that for a fact yet you state it as one... Yikes, what is this world coming to
yea daman.. i just left that one alone.. lmao
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
U NEVER HEARD me say I hate Frye..I think he's a hard worker and has some good points but his negatives FAR OUTWEIGH the positives.. Thats what I see..maybe he can improve in areas but maybe the improvement won't be enough. Look...........you are either not telling the truth when you say you like Charlie or you don't know squat about quarterbacks. I actually hope it's the latter.
U can hope all you want but his performance speaks for itself.. Oh I'm making things up? Am I making up something NEW OR IS IT THE SAME things that were presented all season long or are you just ignoring that to try to make a point? I don't need to make stuff up .. You guys should go read the thread about Montana and Quinn in the Draft forum. Perhaps you will learn something.
Oh I see.."it takes time"..""You can't explain every throw. Sometimes the ball comes out of your hand wrong." Ha..you got that right..small hands will do that to you Once again, I am not sold on Charlie Frye, but it bothers me when people make things up. Oh just why AREN'T YOU SOLD on him? And how is it I am making stuff up? Tell me what he doesn't do that I said he does.. Hmmmm.........I was just thinking about something. It's amazing how you all go from blaming one person to another. First it was Dilfer.......then it was Mo........now it's Charlie......next it will be RAC.
U know where you're coming from with this? Different people complain about different things..like you do..Dilfer didn't like the way things were being handled and it was a standoff between him and Mo..Dilfer wanted out..Phil granted him his wish..Mo was having a powerstruggle with JD.. GMAB ..something had to be rectified.. Mo's LOUDEST complainer was Toad..I only posted on it after I found out certain things which proved to be true. Rac..I haven't been Rac's critiquer in here..I know who has been..only thing I said about Rac is that him mind is geared more toward defense than offense..or are you gonna say I complained about him too? Meanwhile, the guy who assembled the talent remains untouched. And the owner who keeps making ludicrous management decisions is left alone.
And thats the only guy you want to hang..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 04/05/07 10:02 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
OMG,,, you don't know that for a fact yet you state it as one... Yikes, what is this world coming to
GOOD nite..there were so many quotes made about scaling down the offense to make it simple ..and that was to get everyone on the same page and that included Frye..
U guys has selective recollection it's pitiful..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 04/05/07 10:09 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,557
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,557 |
When davidson took over he scaled down the playbook and did his best to take the ball out of Frye's hands. Even Carthon took the ball out of Frye's hands after some of his not so good decisions.
I dont know why this topic is so debated. Frye has not shown any improvement what so ever. Weak arm, poor decisions, no pocket presence, slow decision making. #1 in starting field position and bottom 3 in pretty much every offensive category. There is more to being an NFL quarterback than throwing it up and praying the receiver can take it away from 3 defenders.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,455
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,455 |
Yes they did take things out of the offense,,, not questioning that,,
What I'm questioning is your insistence that it was done for Frye.. That's what you DON'T know and will NEVER be able to verify... Do you get it now!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
Can you not read?
I said they did it for everyone INCLUDING FRYE..linemen, RB's..WR's..included..but also your QB.
What you don't want is admit is Frye cannot read defenses that well..and he doesn't see the field well either..
There were too many times he threw to a covered reciever when he had another open..
That means he either doesn't go through his progressions or he can't read the coverage ..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
What we continuly forget to mention (I'm just as guilty by the way) is that the Line didn't improve, the running game didn't improve and the receivers (except for KW2) didn't improve either.. How is all of that the QB's fault.
It's not, which is WHY I KEEP saying you can judge a QB based on when circumstances are RIGHT. We did it with Couch and we did it with Frye.
I don't blame players for bad plays when it's someone elses fault, and I won't excuse players for bad plays when it's not someone elses fault.
Quote:
The answer is, you can't do it FAIRLY!
Yes. You can.
It didn't take a bad line to realize that Willy Green was a bum. For years myself and others told everyone that he had no vision, that he didn't break tackles well, that he was a poor blocker and a poor receiver. That wasn't the line's fault, even though he only played behind one or two decent lines.
So who's Green playing for right now? Nobody, that's who. And why? Because he's a bum. Same went for Couch. People that know the game (like myself and Vers *sic* ) tried telling people for years that he couldn't read defenses, that he didn't have any pocket presence, and that his bad wing was a HUGE cause for concern. So where's Couch now? He wouldn't be a starter right now because he was never a good QB. He's out of the league because of that bad wing.
Both of those examples have nothing to do with the line or the receivers.
It does take a keen eye to evaluate a player on his own merits. It happens all the time. If it didn't, how do you think NFL evaluators figure out when players on bad teams have a shot at being good?
So YES you can judge Frye based on what we've seen. It's very possible (I won't use the word "easy" ) to see that he doesn't have a great arm. It's very possible to see that he doesn't anticipate routes well. It's very possible to see that he loses his target when throwing past shorter routes. And yes, it's possible to see that he still has a chance to become a viable starter, yet he has serious limitations that he'd have to overcome, making his chances not-so good. People around the league look at Frye as one of the worst starting QB's in the league. The reports are all over the place. Hoping the kid becomes good is just wishful thinking, and it's time to bring in an insurance policy.
Bottom line: It's very possible to judge ANY player based on their own merits. We can't blame them for the faults of others, nor can we excuse their own faults because of others.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
if we bring in Green or Carr there simply is no competition anymore
As NCDawg eluded to, Carr is visiting teams where he won't be the starter.
Here's the thinking on that. There aren't any jobs freely available to him where he'd be the instant starter. That is reserved for a guy like Green who's a proven winner in this league. Carr is thinking that he can sign a short-term deal on an iffy team, take the job, and earn a starters gig and a bigger contract. In that regard, Green is really the only guy that comes in as a starter right away.
Just making a note.
And here's a for backing Rattay *L*
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,455
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,455 |
This is what you wrote that I originally responded to ,,, now if you have changed your stance,,, fine... but look at what you wrote and tell me again what you said Quote:
It got to the point where they had to dumb down the offense and not let him throw deep and limit his attempts. I didn't see improvement either. His rating got better 'when' they took the ball out of his hands and tried to run more.
I saw no mention of RB's, Linemen, Receivers,,,, etc
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Owens feels system changes
affecting Frye
|
|
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
