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Noooooo!!!!
Do not sacrifice our $33 MILLION DOLLARS!!!! of cap space!
We get a refund on our tickets if we remain $33 MILLION DOLLARS!!!! under the cap right?
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Quote:
... If they wanted a guard perhaps they should have drafted one.
We passed on a potentially very good C/OG, Barret Jones, in the 4th round. And yes, although a RT, Schwartz can also play LT...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Quote:
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... If they wanted a guard perhaps they should have drafted one.
We passed on a potentially very good C/OG, Barret Jones, in the 4th round. And yes, although a RT, Schwartz can also play LT...
Schwartz can also play LT? hahaha. and I think he is the best draft pick nutcase heckert made. 
Last edited by pblack18707; 04/29/13 09:00 PM.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Eric Freakin Winston? Former Right Tackle of the Texans, from 3 years ago.
3 years ago, 2 years ago, I thought (oh my gosh) this guy is the Best offensive lineman in the entire NFL. ( read it again!)
I know how much this board has love for Schwartz, and he can play, But, If Eric Winston could come in, and play like he was 3 years ago.
He not only is worth the guaranteed money and a multi-year deal. He would win the starting spot from either ( yes EITHER,) Schwartz or Thomas!
( OH my gosh, I can't believe he just said that, how can anyone not just give Joe T. the hall of fame jacket, he's made the pro bowl every year... and I'm gonna list all the smart people who say Joe is top 4 in the league. )
Whatever!
I"m saying Winston, is that good! Eric Winston.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Quote:
For whatever it is worth, this was supposedly a "Banner pick" back in Philly.
Are you saying that Banner made some picks? The GM made some picks? And Reid made some picks?
Do you have any kind of proof that Banner made that pick? If so, I apologize for questioning you.
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Quote:
Eric Freakin Winston? Former Right Tackle of the Texans, from 3 years ago.
3 years ago, 2 years ago, I thought (oh my gosh) this guy is the Best offensive lineman in the entire NFL. ( read it again!)
I know how much this board has love for Schwartz, and he can play, But, If Eric Winston could come in, and play like he was 3 years ago.
He not only is worth the guaranteed money and a multi-year deal. He would win the starting spot from either ( yes EITHER,) Schwartz or Thomas!
( OH my gosh, I can't believe he just said that, how can anyone not just give Joe T. the hall of fame jacket, he's made the pro bowl every year... and I'm gonna list all the smart people who say Joe is top 4 in the league. )
Whatever!
I"m saying Winston, is that good! Eric Winston.
I love you.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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OK, I'm out ta here.... 
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Quote:
Quote:
... If they wanted a guard perhaps they should have drafted one.
We passed on a potentially very good C/OG, Barret Jones, in the 4th round. And yes, although a RT, Schwartz can also play LT...
IIRC, Schwartz played mostly LT at Cal, and played LT in the Senior Bowl.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Interesting diatribe. We're discussing Winston Justice. Carry on! 
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Quote:
Justice goes to guard, maybe even as a back-up,
Obviously you have much higher evaluation of our current starting G's than I do. I would see him penciled in as a starting G right off the bat.
Yes if he signs with Pittsburgh.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I don't think Justice has ever played guard in his entire career.
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I would assume that the move would be to get some depth at tackle.
It would be nice to upgrade at the guard position. Lauvao needs to be slid down to the bench, and Greco showed enough last year to be comfortable there.
But I don't know that it's the highest priority right now.
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I agree. More depth is always good.
But I was responding to a poster who said that Justice would slide in immediately and start at guard, a position he has never played before.
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Right.
I was agreeing with you in that regard. I think we're looking at him for tackle depth.
I think most are envisioning him as a guard simply because we need starting guards. But we also need depth at tackle just as badly.
I don't think our starting guards are ideal, but they're serviceable. Our backup tackles are not. If Thomas or Schwartz went down, we'd be in trouble.
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All Pro
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Quote:
Right.
I was agreeing with you in that regard. I think we're looking at him for tackle depth.
I think most are envisioning him as a guard simply because we need starting guards. But we also need depth at tackle just as badly.
I don't think our starting guards are ideal, but they're serviceable. Our backup tackles are not. If Thomas or Schwartz went down, we'd be in trouble.
And we passed on Barrett Jones in the 4th. He would of provided depth at every position with a potential to start at one of the guard spots.
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I wasn't as enamored with Jones as many (and he was one of the few I paid some attention to this year).
Don't get me wrong ... I think he definitely has the potential for a long, solid NFL career, but probably as swing depth.
It's going to take some work ... as far as strength and athleticism is concerned ... he's out of his depth a bit. He's got the potential to succeed in this league, but he also has the potential to get his doors blown off by the elite talent he'll be across from week after week.
I can totally understand someone being miffed that we didn't take him. Given the offer of having taken him in the fourth or having an extra third next year ... I'd go with the third next year, but I can see the opposite opinion.
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Don't we already have a guy that can do that (Greco)?
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I was saying for months now that OT is a bigger need than OG for the Browns....our 3rd OT was Cousins. We were lucky that both Thomas and Schwartz didn't even miss a snap.
Not a fan of W.Justice, but he should be better than Cousins. That's a start
We also have 2-3 "open" roster spots on the OL with only Thomas, Schwartz, Mack, Greco, Pinky and Lauvao pretty much guaranteed spots if healthy. The other 2-3 would be battled out between Miller, Cousins, Faulk, Gilkey and Cave right now. If we sign Justice, Cousins is gone, leaving Miller and the late rounders/UDFAs from this draft fighting for 1-2 spots. That's ok
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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jc...
Why?
Winston Justice plays RT...and not very good.
Oh, I see why now...he was first drafted by the Eagles...that splains it.
You don't build a roster "via the draft" by bringing in old veterans who are underperformers. Doing favors for your old players...finding a place on the roster so they can earn a paycheck...doesn't help the Browns
Develop the young guys who were DRAFTED BY THE BROWNS...
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Hopefully we keep the big guys that can move like Miller and Gilkey. I like Justice a lot more than I ever will Cousins.
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Quote:
jc...
Why?
Winston Justice plays RT...and not very good.
Oh, I see why now...he was first drafted by the Eagles...that splains it.
You don't build a roster "via the draft" by bringing in old veterans who are underperformers. Doing favors for your old players...finding a place on the roster so they can earn a paycheck...doesn't help the Browns
Develop the young guys who were DRAFTED BY THE BROWNS...
Man, you are so full of it!!!
There are a multitude of threads on here where you are bashing "the bean counter" for not bringing in older players.
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Quote:
There are a multitude of threads on here where you are bashing "the bean counter" for not bringing in older players.
Vers...ok, find me one of those threads you are referring to above...quote my post.
Last edited by mac; 04/30/13 08:45 AM.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Justice goes to guard, maybe even as a back-up,
Obviously you have much higher evaluation of our current starting G's than I do. I would see him penciled in as a starting G right off the bat.
Hence the word "maybe"... Hard to say what kind of progress our young OGs will have made or how Norv/Chud plan to use them.... Either way, whether it's one of our young guys or Justice it would be nice to have a little depth at the position.
yebat' Putin
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Right.
I was agreeing with you in that regard. I think we're looking at him for tackle depth.
I think most are envisioning him as a guard simply because we need starting guards. But we also need depth at tackle just as badly.
I don't think our starting guards are ideal, but they're serviceable. Our backup tackles are not. If Thomas or Schwartz went down, we'd be in trouble.
And we passed on Barrett Jones in the 4th. He would of provided depth at every position with a potential to start at one of the guard spots.
Jones is who I would have taken, but I am not upset we passed and traded the pick for a 3rd rounder next year.
Grecko stepped in and played well, and Pinky is back, so we should expect to see improved play at the guard position.
Plus, this guy from Chardon St. looks like he might be a pretty good late round find.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
Quote:
There are a multitude of threads on here where you are bashing "the bean counter" for not bringing in older players.
Vers...ok, find me one of those threads you are referring to above...quote my post.
Find your own post, you have said that multiple times.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I know there are a couple in this thread...
Browns sign K Shayne Graham [
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For whatever it is worth, this was supposedly a "Banner pick" back in Philly.
Are you saying that Banner made some picks? The GM made some picks? And Reid made some picks?
Do you have any kind of proof that Banner made that pick? If so, I apologize for questioning you.
I am not going to search for you. There was a article and interview alluding to Justice being a Banner pick. If you're so inclined to look for proof, I suggest surfing the internet.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Quote:
Quote:
There are a multitude of threads on here where you are bashing "the bean counter" for not bringing in older players.
Vers...ok, find me one of those threads you are referring to above...quote my post.
Does this one suffice, or do you want more?
It is simply an example of the "#1 priority" of the Browns new management team and a byproduct of the Browns being run by a "bean counter" whose priority is not signing the best players to help the team win...but making sure the franchise fills the kicking position with the cheapest option (under 30) available...JMHO
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jc
Offensive linemen get hurt. Justice as a backup OT sounds reasonable to me. I wouldn't count on him for much more.
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The idea of Cousins seeing the field makes ill 
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
There are a multitude of threads on here where you are bashing "the bean counter" for not bringing in older players.
Vers...ok, find me one of those threads you are referring to above...quote my post.
Does this one suffice, or do you want more?
It is simply an example of the "#1 priority" of the Browns new management team and a byproduct of the Browns being run by a "bean counter" whose priority is not signing the best players to help the team win...but making sure the franchise fills the kicking position with the cheapest option (under 30) available...JMHO
I was absolutely floored that he asked you to produce a quote.
For good measure...
Quote:
Applying Banner's "30 and out" rule for signing veteran players, Dumerville at 29, was not about to be signed by Banner, the bean counter.
Had Ozzie Newsome operated by Banner's 30 and out rule, the Ravens would have never won the Super Bowl.
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I was absolutely floored that he asked you to produce a quote.
I thought the same thing. The exact opposite of a snipe hunt.
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Good grief if banner brings this guy in and demands that he starts and either trades or benches Schwartz then i am 100% sure we are doomed with banner in charge....
" Now here you are running these dirty old streets tattoo on your neck fake gold on your teeth, got the hood here snowed but you can't fool me, we both know who you are"
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Good grief if banner brings this guy in and demands that he starts and either trades or benches Schwartz then i am 100% sure we are doomed with banner in charge....
If Banner cuts Joe Thomas and trades Trent Richardson for a 7th, then I am 100% sure we are doomed with Banner in charge.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
There are a multitude of threads on here where you are bashing "the bean counter" for not bringing in older players.
Vers...ok, find me one of those threads you are referring to above...quote my post.
Find your own post, you have said that multiple times.
peen...OK, you too...back up your claim that I bashed "the bean counter" for not bringing in older players...when you find it, post it.
If you don't post it, everyone will know you are just making crap up again.
So you and vers backup your claims that I bashed the beancounter for not bringing in older players...maybe you two can work on your project together...good luck.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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egad...no stats for OL so I understand the confusion of some opinions on this thread...lol 
1. Eric Winston sucks...he was the next Big time LT from Miami I believe n has been an underachiever to say the least...I remember all going crazy for us to get him in FA (last season??? or was it the one before?) Well he sucked then n sucks now...very soft.
2. Winston Justice should still be young I think he came in 06 draft? He came out too early n was too young...Its beyond me why he never made it - has to be wanting it or the lack of work. Well he bounced last year n I think available again this year. I am pretty sure Banner liked him a lot...heck I liked him a lot when he came out of USC he was the best OT prospect out of there.
Question is has he hit humility yet? Will he work hard to do the best?
3. RG???  yeah we just suck there. I'm tired of setting dawgs straight regarding Lava. He has started two years straight n gotten better each season. If there is a position that needs attending to it would be the LG position...cannot believe some of you are saying RG...don't tell me you all think Greco is good he serves as a good backup swingman n can play Center too.
4. Transition from OT to OG is a lot easier. Almost all OTs have the skill set to be able to play OG...not the same with OGs many just do not have the skill set to play OT.
5. We have a new regime but we still have the same OL coach...Warhop - so I don't see us making changes due to regime stuff - they didn't pick him so they want there guys stuff.
6. Justice has natural talents...unbelievable natural talents. But he has fallen far from achieving his potential. Questions have to be answered. Does he love the game of football or is it just Million $$$ pay checks that he loves? Does he want to be great? Does he have pride in himself? Will he switch to LG if asked? Or will the ego w/$$$ tell him OTs make more money? If he has hit rock bottom n willing to go all out n that would include playing LG for us (our biggest hole right now) great.
7. Schwartz did great last year as a rookie RT...why would we even think about switching him for guys who with years of experience didn't come close to Schwartz as a Rookie...if that happens I got to question the FO...cause I know it didn't come from Warhop. But honestly I don't expect that to happen.
8. Note nowhere am I saying that LAVA is a ProBowler. He still has to progress but he is nowhere as easily upgraded on as many think. Just take a look at any Goal Line or Short Yardage O...sometimes replays will show a sideline view of the LOS...If you can find one...take a look at Lava...you will find him easily cause you will see the snap n then one guy firing our low hard n way ahead of anyone else...that would be Lava. Look at most of our successful Short yardage stuff including goal line...many will be going right over Lava.
He is downfield on every play picking our RB up but hitting people with some nastiness.
Yes, you will see him getting off balance with his push that when the DLman leaves Lava laterally to pursue the RB Lava will fall to the ground so there is no reason to pancake guys when the run is to the other side...he should control and seal then go downfield but he knows only one way. It all depends what you like...if you like sissy girl blocking you can have Greco. If you like mean kick butt nasty full motor blocking...look for Lava.
Justice to be a veteran leader...ahhh no he has NO WORK ETHIC written all over him...maybe he can learn from our guys???
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I don't know if this qualifies as bashing, but it is pretty much saying that teams can't reach the SB without signing players over 30 and Banner simply doesn't do that. Quote:
Applying Banner's "30 and out" rule for signing veteran players, Dumerville at 29, was not about to be signed by Banner, the bean counter.
Had Ozzie Newsome operated by Banner's 30 and out rule, the Ravens would have never won the Super Bowl.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Why even bother? There are 3 words that don't exist in his world ... those words being , "I was wrong".
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
peen...OK, you too...back up your claim that I bashed "the bean counter" for not bringing in older players...when you find it, post it.
If you don't post it, everyone will know you are just making crap up again.
So you and vers backup your claims that I bashed the beancounter for not bringing in older players...maybe you two can work on your project together...good luck.
Who needs luck?
Quote:
Management that lacks a background in football use unrealistic rules, by which they operated. Banner established a rule that operated by in Philly that players near or over 30 yrs old, should not be resigned. Obviously, Banner brought his crazy rule to Cleveland and our Flying J owner, Haslam, doesn't know enough about football or have the courage to tell his business CEO that the "30 and out" rule, needs to be canned.
In Philly, Banner used his "ludicrous rule" to get ride of some good, "veteran" football players...players that Andy Reid wanted to keep. While veteran leadership might not be a part of the game that Banner values, most teams that are consistant winners rely on their veteran leadership to help teach and lead their younger players.
Just how stupid is Banner's rule?...imagine if Ozzie Newsome operated using Banner's "30 and out" rule? The Ravens would not have won the Super Bowl with Joe Banner running their franchise. No other franchise in the NFL operated under such a rule...how did Cleveland get so lucky...with an absentee Truck Stop Owner allowing a "bean counter" to run this team?
jmho...mac
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php?...rue#Post1024430
Quote:
Applying Banner's "30 and out" rule for signing veteran players, Dumerville at 29, was not about to be signed by Banner, the bean counter.
Now those teams that know what it takes to build a winning franchise, they have no problem going after a player of Dumerville's caliber. Ozzie Newsome is simply the best at evaluating and signing football players, regardless of their age.
Had Ozzie Newsome operated by Banner's 30 and out rule, the Ravens would have never won the Super Bowl.
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php?...rue#Post1024789
Quote:
Had Banner been in charge in Baltimore, the Ravens would never have won the Super Bowl.
Banner's crazy "30 and out" rule is just more proof that Banner is first and foremost, a "bean counter"...a bean counter who does not have a clue what it takes to build a team that "wins it all".
For those who are bummed about the Browns not signing a good veteran WR...the Browns under new management, might very well be the last place those free agents would like to play.
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php?...rue#Post1030675
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\
EO...make no mistake about what I'm saying...Banner's rule, that players 30 and above are not resigned...is plain STUPID !
It signifies the thinking of a "bean counter" rather than the thinking of a CEO or GM who judges the player based on what he brings to the team rather than a CEO/GM who thinks in terms of the age of the player and the cost of resigning that player.
In short, (in the past) Banner believed many of the Eagles free agents were not worth the money to resign, because they were 30 yrs old or more.
I'm going to touch on my example of a good GM who judges his players based on what they bring to the team rather than focusing on age/cost to resign.
...would Ozzie Newsome sign free agents who were 30 yrs of age or older?
Ozzie would not only sign players in their 30s, he didn't care if those 30 something veterans were the core of the team. Did Ozzie's method work well enough to win it all?
How about Banner's method, when with the Eagles...they win it all?
In my research into Banner, he even admitted that he made mistakes when it came to him "not resigning" some of the Eagles free agents that Andy Reid wanted on the team.
We do not know for sure if Banner is continuing to use his idiotic "30 and out" rule, here in Cleveland...but the Phil Dawson case would indicate he is.
At this time, with the team beginning year 4 of the 5 yr rebuilding of the roster via the draft, Banner's "30 and out" rule may not hurt the team as badly now as it can in the years ahead.
The Browns could have used a good free agent WR...didn't get one. So now we are left with signing a cast off, hoping he will be able to rehab well enough to play this year.
OR, maybe WR is now at the top of our draft board...who knows.
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php?...rue#Post1030736
Quote:
EO...Did Ozzie cut Ed Reed lose at age 30 or 31 or 32?
Did Ozzie let Reed go because of some idiotic bean counter rule, that players 30 and older are not worth resigning?
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php?...rue#Post1031090
That took five minutes.
Do you need more?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833 |
Quote:
I was saying for months now that OT is a bigger need than OG for the Browns....our 3rd OT was Cousins. We were lucky that both Thomas and Schwartz didn't even miss a snap.
Not a fan of W.Justice, but he should be better than Cousins. That's a start
We also have 2-3 "open" roster spots on the OL with only Thomas, Schwartz, Mack, Greco, Pinky and Lauvao pretty much guaranteed spots if healthy. The other 2-3 would be battled out between Miller, Cousins, Faulk, Gilkey and Cave right now. If we sign Justice, Cousins is gone, leaving Miller and the late rounders/UDFAs from this draft fighting for 1-2 spots. That's ok
I agree with this but, I'm not necessarily agreeing that Cousins is automatically the casualty although I sure as hell hope so.
I bash Cousins as much as anyone, but he as at least seen the field. IMO his contract will be the deciding factor for him as much as anything. You are likely right, but for the contract reason . Can't realistically pay Cousins and Justice.
IMO Justice > Cousins. but not by leaps and bounds.
Justice = quality back-up or 2nd/tier starter.
In the case of Justice he will consider pay, good team and a chance to start. Who offers the best package will get him.
yours truly,
Capt. Obvious
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