DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Evaluating the 2010 Browns Draft

With everyone arguing post-draft grades and the usual "you can't judge a draft a day after it" talk (which btw I think is BS...if you can talk for months about a draft proces OF COURSE you can evaluate a draft according to that process at least), saying that at least 2-3 years have to pass to judge any draft, well I thought might as well take a look at the 2010 Browns Draft, Heckert's first as Browns GM:

7) CB Haden
38) SS Ward
59) RB Hardesty
85) QB McCoy
92) G Lauvao
160) S Asante
177) WR Mitchell
186) DE Geathers

Here's the ENTIRE draft for reference:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2010/tracker#dt...y-round-input:1

I'll go pick by pick for a better evaluation of this class:

7) Haden

Looking at the rest of the 1st round only 2 guys come even close to Haden: JPP and FS E.Thomas and both were nowhere near the Top 10 when Heckert made that pick. LB McClain, RB Spiller and DT Alualu were picked right after Haden. 3 year starter and already considered a top 10 CB with upside to be elite. We saw how our DB looked like without him.

Grade: A

38) Ward

A lot of love-hate among Brownsfans probably still stemming from the "surprise" of Ward being picked so early. But again, take a long hard look at the rest of this round and tell me with a straight face that Ward isn't one of the best 5 players out of that round. The best pick was TE Gronk, after that Ward is in the mix along with G Beadles, DT L.Jospeh, LB Spikes, LB D.Washington and DE L.Houston...and some of those needed a year or two to get things going. Ward was a force from day 1. The Ravens picked LB Kindle, who was a complete bust, T.Mays, who many on here screamed for at the time of the pick, is bouncing around the league and never became a starter. The 3 picks after Ward? WR A.Benn, DE/OLB Misi, DT Troup...Who?
While incredibly there are still some Brownsfans that think Ward is overrated, he's pretty much considered a top 5 lock at SS by most national analysts after only 3 years. His coverage play has improved a lot and is AVG by now, which is good for the position, and he's always been a good to great player vs the run. This was a great pick and only injuries can stop him from remaining one of the best SS in the league. He could take it to the next level if Horton unleashed him in his scheme

Grade: A


58) RB Hardesty

Here's where most fans probably already wait for a BUST profile, but they'll be disappointed, as I'll argue that all things considered Hardesty was an AVG pick at this point in the draft. Hear me out. The 5 picks AFTER Hardesty to round out the 2nd round were WR G.Tate, OL Ducasse, LB Spikes, LB Angerer and OT C.Brown. Outside of Spikes, none of these guys are even decent starters in the league right now.
Now let's look at the RBs picked in this class, will we? Before Hardesty the RBs picked are: Spiller, R.Matthews and J.Best in round 1 and RB/WR D.McCLuster, T.Gerhart and B.Tate in round 2. You see a trend? Let's look at the guys picked after Hardesty: J.McKnight, A.Dixon, D.Karim, J.Dwyer, J.Starks and C.Scott. Hands down I take Hardesty over any RB picked after him. Even the 2nd rounders picked ahead of him are backups now, it turned out to be a weak class for RBs and Hardesty was the last one worth a crap, that's why Heckert probably traded up for him and no other RB was picked until the 4th round.
All that said, after 2 seasons this pick would have still been a big, fat D- or F, but last season, his FIRST healthy season after ANOTHER unlucky setback to his knee, he showed flashes of a solid no2 complimentary RB, thus, all things considered:

Grade: C

85) QB McCoy

I can't write novels to every selection, so let's keep this short: Colt failed as a starting QB option. At 85, at the end of round 3 in a VERY weak QB class that's not a shame at all. After 3 seasons he's considered an "ok" backup. My personal opinion is that he's a below AVG backup QB, but an above AVG no3 QB. The players picked after Colt? DE/OLB Teo-Nesheim, WR Decker, WR A.Roberts, QB A.Edwards, WR T.Price and ILB N.Bowman...some busts, some studs. He's in between I'd say

Grade: C-

92) G Lauvao

Liek Ward, Lauvao was considered an overdraft. Unlike Ward, he hasn't performed as well. Then again, he was picked almost 60 picks later, so let's look who was drafted after Lauvao to close out round 3: TE Moeaki, CB K.Thomas, TE J.Graham, CB Ghee, LB R.Curran and OG M.Johnson. Other OLs picked in the 4th after Lauvao: OT B.Campbell, C/G Hawley, J.Fox, J.McClendon. Backups at best.
Lauvao right now is a bottom 3rd starting OG in this league, who has improved a bit and still has some upside left after converting from OT in College. His "upside" is probably just becoming and AVG to above AVG OG in his prime, but that'd be pretty good value. Lauvao is also one of probably only a handful of players outside the first round of this draft class to have started EVERY game the past 2 years. Durability is a plus with him and considering the importance of a cohesive OL unit, this is a underappreciated positive. We're looking at a long NFL career either as a starter or at worst a valuable backup. Remember that OL take time, esp. guys converting from OT to G, John Greco is the best example for that. Similar players, same round drafted in. Let's not make the mistake the Rams made and give up on Lauvao yet. That said, 2013 is his make or break year as a starting G in this league.

Grade: B-/C+

160) S Asante

Is still in the league with the Colts, but will have to fight for a roster spot every year. Contributed some as a ST. HAs one INT and one forced fumble to his name, yay. He was a late 5th rounder. Look around the 5th round and you'll see a lot of guys like him or that are already out of the league and some occasional hits. He wasn't one of them, thus:

Grade: D

177) WR Mitchell

Like Asante, he's still around, in Dallas, but is pretty much a camp body there and a sure cut. He'll be out of the league for good in 6 months. Hated the pick at the time

Grade: F

186) DE C.Geathers

Geathers was a raw JR entry who needed time to develop as a 5T DE in a 3-4. We didn't give him the time because we switched scheme after 2010. He's in Philly now and has a good shot at playing there as a rotational DE. His development is trending up and I consider this to be a successful pick

Grade: C+


Overall: I think this draft was a success. Not many teams can say after 3 seasons that they have drafted two top 5-10 players at their positions. The middle rounds were AVG overall and the late rounders were 2 fails and 1 victim of our constant scheme turnover. Since the early picks are the most important ones and the fact that most teams are AVG after the top 50 picks, the overall Grade for me is: A-/B+


Let's hear your take...

If Colt McCoy hadn't been forced into a starting role due to our terrible QB situation, that is an A++++ pick.

Colt McCoy is one of the best back-up QB's in the league.

If we had been in position to make Colt McCoy a back-up/developmental QB, that pick would have been GREAT value at 85.


Unfortunately, that's not how it worked out for us.

I can only give Ward a B, largely because he has not been able to stay healthy. He missed games last year and the year before. That's a concern. (10 games missed in 2 years)

I do think that he is a more well rounded Safety than many give him credit for. He is a decent zone cover guy, and is definitely a solid hitter/tackler. His ball skills could use some improvement, but that can apply to quite a few Safeties in the NFL.

I do think that he was hurt a great deal by youth on defense last year. He had to play Safety with 1 or 2 young OLB, a young FS, and a young CB at times with Skrine in the game in place of Haden. That's enough to drive any Safety insane. I think that Ward tried to cover up for others' mistakes ..... and often caught the blame for it.

Haden I would give a B+. He doesn't create enough turnover for me to give him an A ..... but he is a solid, plus level cover guy. If he learns to catch a few INT, he could easily move up to an A.

Hardesty has become a solid backup. C from me for him.

McCoy is gone. Most 3rd round QB become backups, and he is a backup. I would out that at expectation, or a C.

Lauvao gets a C+. He seems to be a better pass blocker than run blocker.He needs work, but many mid to late round Guards take time to develop. This is the year for him to take a step forward.

I agree with you on the rest. If you get production out of a 5th, 6th, and 7th round pick, then you have done well. I would give the draft a solid B.

Great stuff. I agree with most of it. I love TJ, but I'd probably slide that down to a B at this point. Maybe the talent is close to an A, but the production isn't quite there.

I love Haden. We saw first hand last year what the defense looked like with him, and without him, and it was painfully obvious. Awesome pick.

I don't know how to grade the Colt pick. Remember we drafted him and the talk was, well he's years away from seeing the field. Jake Delhomme and Seneca Wallace mid-season injuries later, he's on the field, and he held his own. The league caught up to him and exposed his weaknesses.

I don't wish injury upon anybody, but I'd be awful interested to see how he would do if he were given the reigns if Kaepernick were to go down. He wouldn't have any excuses any more, he's on arguably the deepest team in the league.

Totally agree with Hardesty at C. I thought he filled in well last year, and he's not a B because it was a 2nd round pick, and 2nd round pick RB's should be playing a lot more than he has.

Lauvao gets a B, just because he was able to come in and stabilize the spot. He's no pro bowler, but I don't see him as much of a liability as I do a guy who I wish we could upgrade because I'm greedy and want to see Trent rush for 2k.

Michell was an F because he should never have been drafted. UDFA.

Thank you...much more sense evaluating this draft class than the present one

Key to any draft class is the success of the first two impact rounds. Them who are competitive usually have year in n year out success from those two rounds.

Also in reviewing our horrible history is the lack of hitting on those two rounds. We got to hit on those IMPACT PICKS...no not everyone has to be Pro Bowlers but we need them to contribute as starters.

Haden n Ward...I think both have Pro-Bowl accolades in their future (need to start winning). Ward has had injuries but nothing career ending.

Anything else is bonus...Hardesty (since we got Trent) will only be depth he missed a lot from injury - might not be a guy we keep here long term (after his contract runs out) only cause RB talent is found everywhere.

Lava...I like him more than most. He does get good reviews from coaches. But fact is he is a Starter n it will be hard for us to UPGRADE on him. Good Value finally from a 3rd round pick out side of McCutcheon have we ever had a decent 3rd round pick???

The rest are done n gone although we might have signed some weird contract with Mitchell WR. Colt still out there cause we traded him n didn't we use one of those picks for that 2014 4th round pick??? So who ever that is n Gilkey in 2013 becomes an asset to the Colt pick.

Not an amazing draft but the first of what I hope are many IMPACT PICK STARTERS coming from the draft. The key on the Browns finally becoming relevant to the NFL again!
JMHO

If you graded drafts by: legendary, great, good, meh, and bad, 2010 would have been labeled "good" if you ask me.

We got two starters, three if Lauvao ever steps up, and a very nice second RB in Hardesty.

If we weren't so talent depleted and so in need of hitting on EVERY pick, I'd give this Draft a B, easily.

no offense, you are not alone in saying it, but I hate the assessment that Ward is injury-prone because of his 2nd year. yes, he got injured and missed 8 games in year2 and that stinks.

he played 16 games his rookie year. he played 14games last year and played well despite having a cast on his hand. let's not call him injury-prone until he starts missing many games in multiple seasons or has something that is recurrent.

missing 2 games/season should be expected out of the safety position. it's a tough position that includes alot of open-field full-speed collisions.

No complaints on your grades overall. I might adjust a smidge here or there, but overall, pretty spot on. One comment regarding the Hardesty post - I'd disagree on Golden Tate - he started 15 games last year, had 45 receptions (85th) on 68 targets, 7 TD (22nd), almost 700 (58th) yards and one of the lowest drop rates in the league (2 drops). I'd consider that a decent starter for a #2 receiver (albeit not great). Of course that will all change this year with the Perch Harvin trade.

Overall a very good draft and just a couple things kept it from being a great draft.

1. Ward has been dinged up and I don't think he has realized his potential yet.
2. Hardesty has been dinged up since the day he got off the plane. Guy has looked very productive at times but has just never been able to stay on the field consistently enough to really get in a groove.
3. Colt was forced into action way too soon in a poorly designed offense. A couple years of spot duty with a good offensive scheme and I think he could have been better, though I think his future is as a back-up/spot starter.


I think Haden is very good to great, I think Ward is really good and might be great, I think Lauvao is still on the roster and contributing, which isn't bad for pick 92 and I still think he will get better.

I will just conclude by saying that with the coaching debacle these guys have played under, it's really hard to know where each of their ceilings really is....

Quote:

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three if Lauvao ever steps up

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He has stepped up n been the starter for two years now - this will be his 3rd. What "IF"?

Greco filled in for Pinkston when he had his medical issues.

Ahh, thanks. For some reason I had thought Lauvao had been a backup the last year.

Well, that just further bolsters the grades on the 2010 Draft, I'd say.

Good thread, nice timing on this one.

Haden A-
Ward B+
Haredesty D+...I don't normally hold an injury against a guy or the guy that drafted him. but when there are red flags and trades involved, gotta hammer it. He's in a make/break year, not just for his spot on this team, but time is running out to make any impact in the NFL. As it stands hardly any production in 3 years.
McCoy C-
Lava B

The rest? A cumulative D. Most late-rounders are expected to fail from the beginning.

Overall? B+. He hit on the first two picks and that's huge. Weighted average to the top. Got a starter out of Lava and a stopgap QB in Colt.

3 Starters (Haden, Ward and Lauvau) and 1 decent backup (Hardesty) Not a bad draft ... JMHO

I don't agree that you can give credit for Geathers, if he is developing in Philly, because that is not a positive for the Browns.

Yeah I kind of agree with TL. A draft, if you're going to do such a thing, should be graded on how much value the selection brings to the team.

jc

if we look at this from a different perspective and only point out that:

1. if you can get 2-3 starters in any draft, you did good.
2. if you can also get 2-3 backups out of the same draft you did great.
3. if you can draft a few extra players that are still on your team or in the NFL... that borders amazing.

we have:

harden and ward and Lava as starters- good

we have McCoy and Hardesty as backups- great

everyone else is still in the NFL- borderline amazing

2010 is probably the best draft we have had since our return and better than most teams in the NFL in 2010.

I give it an A

Other than than not giving Lava the B+ that he deserves I have to pretty much agree.

Thanks DJ. Good points and I agree with most of them. Thought I'd go back and dig up my old "week after the draft" evaluation on 2010.

Here it is:

Quote:

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Ok, I primarily grade a draft ahead of time based on 4 factors: filling needs, taking BPA, intelligent trading, and taking a few guys I liked a lot (because let’s face it, we’re all biased).

Filling Needs – well, our needs before the draft seemed to be roughly in priority: S, OL, DL, CB, S, OLB, OL, WR, QB, RB (yes, S and OL appear twice on purpose)

We drafted in order of our draft: CB, S, RB, QB, OL, S, WR, DL

Taking anything outside the top3 rounds as less than 50% success rate, we likely have not filled our full need on DL, OL, WR (and the second safety). We also completely ignored our need at OLB. However, given the talent that was available and the picks we had at our disposal, I thought we did a decent job at filling needs though I am going to ding us a grade for not getting a DL earlier.

Need grade = B+


taking BPA – obviously subjective and it runs with the 4th category a tad, but I’ll try to make this one more of a ‘mock draft consensus’ category. This category could also be called ‘avoiding reaches’ which is more closely what I view it as.

Haden – BPA and the obvious pick with Berry and Suh gone.
Ward – serious issues with his knees made his draft stock lower than what we picked on most sites.
Hardesty – seemed right in line with most sites I read. Again, health concerns, but most had him as a late 2nd rounder.
Colt McCoy – going purely by the standards of this category, he seems like a steal as most had him as a 2nd rounder (I feel he went about where he should but that’s category 4).
Shawn Lauvao – a bit of a reach as most interior OL get downgraded on mock draft sites. I did find a few that had him rated as OT and by that he went where he should. So, if he is RT, then it’s right in line, but I’m grading him as a reach for now.
Larry Asante – he ranged anywhere from a 3rd to 5th round pick. A slight steal by our part there.
Carlton Mitchell – he rated anywhere from 5th to 7th. So, again a wash.
Clifton Geathers – he rated anywhere from 4th to UDFA. So, let’s call it a wash.


Final Tally:
“steals” = 2
“reaches” = 2
“wash” = 4

BPA Grade = C+ (downgraded due to Ward being considered a reach and that being the highest non-wash pick)

intelligent trading – only draft day trades count here. So, Quinn/Seneca/Shelden+Gocung trades that had picks involved are not included.

We get: #59
For: #71 + #134 + #146

Draft value chart says: Browns get: 310 points Browns give: 235 + 39 + 33 = 307

Factor in we were getting a position (RB) that we at least had lower on our ‘need’ chart. However, we did get a player that had rated well and that would not seem to have a chance of lasting until #71 (so, odds are if we wanted him we had to pay for him). And, we didn’t get a steal on the draft chart, so I’ll just go with a modest grade.

Trade Grade = B

preferred player list – completely subjective to the guys I liked and wanted to draft. Suh, Berry, Haden, Ghee, Kindle, Hughes, Nate Allen, Damian Williams, etc. And avoiding guys I didn’t like: Tate, Claussen, Spikes, Kyle Wilson, etc.

To be honest, I hadn’t really considered Lauvao, Mitchell or Geathers much before the draft one way or another. I liked Asante quite a bit as a late round guy so bonus points there. If we had to draft a QB in this weak-QB class, I am happy it was Colt (and happier it was in the 3rd). I didn’t like Hardesty all that much because I don’t like RBs who have injury concerns (more than most positions even). I liked Nate Allen, so Ward was initially a disappointment considering my pre-draft thoughts (though I see where we wanted the better tackling guy instead). And, I love Haden, very happy with that pick.

From pre-draft thoughts:

Love – 1 (Haden)
Like – 2 (Colt, Asante)
Mixed Feelings – 1 (Ward)
Didn’t Like – 1 (Hardesty)
Didn’t care one way or another – 3 (Lauvao, Mitchell, Geathers)

Preferred Grade = C+



Overall Grade = B-

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Nice draft summary.

Question: What ever happened with Assante? I remember the kid has so much promise n then Poof - he disappeared. Was he a kid we tried to waive n put on our Practice squad n it backfired...or is my age/memory glomming a result from another regime???

JMH?

He was out of football last year after playing with the Buccs the previous years. He's currently under contract with the Colts but is probably a bit of a longshot to make the team.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/cap-hit/

Actually, looking at their roster he's got a decent chance to win the 4th safety spot with them. Joe Lefeged, Larry Asante, and John Boyett fighting for probably two spots. Lefeged was I think a UDFA for them last year and they drafted Boyett this yer, so he's probably not starting off in the lead, but he's got a shot.

Thanks for the info Clevesteve...I know this is a message board n communication is confusing. Part of my whatever happened to Assante was beside the literal...but mostly I wonder WHY? What happened? drugs? Injury?

ah gotcha. I think he just wasn't that good. The guy we tried to stash was Don Carey who went to the Jaguars. Carey is on the Lions now and apparently was one of many players to pick off Andrew Luck last year. And he did it twice.

Carey...yep now I remember thanks. Mangini got a little cute on that one or was it a Kokinos cluster muck as was most the draft.

Assante was one of those good motor kids from Nebraska if I remember correctly. I just remember him having promise n us giving up on him very quickly.

thanks.

Nah, No one got "cute" on Don Carey. Teams had a tradition of waiving injured draft picks to put them on IR ..... and Jacksonville broke that "gentleman's agreement" among teams and claimed him anyway. I forget now, but it was the first time in quite a while that a team had done that with another team's player.

And it really sucks because Carey turned out to be an All-Pro.

My 2 cents:

Haden B: Living up to high pick expectations, to get an A he would need to be one of the top 4 corners in the NFL, which he isn't.

Ward: B+, although I don't see him has a difference maker and probably wouldn't start for half of the teams in the NFL, I see value on this pick.

Hardesty: D we had to draft a RB in the first round, so major fail here.

Mccoy: C- backup QB material, not that bad

Lauvau: B+ /A-, Finding a starter or backup for our OL in this round deserves an A


Overall I would grade this draft a B because anything less then 2 good players would be an F

So, regardless of Haden being the best pick that could have been made at that spot he gets a B from you? Doesn't it matter WHO ELSE was left on the board? Strange grading system

Top 4 CB= probowl starter, you could say top 6 CB....

Regarding the pick I think it was competent, not amazing. Jason Pierre Paul, would have been an amazing pick, Rob Gronkowsky also for example.

Regarding Ward, its my assessment and I'm being generous here.

Well, that could be true. I did look at Haden more as a player on his own merits, as opposed to within the context of that draft.

Probably the only other picks that would have been on par or better (In the 1st round, after he was picked) would be guys like Earl Thomas and Jason Pierre-Paul. Maybe Sean Weatherspoon. Devin McCourty would be an A for sure, going to the Patriots at 27. Given his selection at 27 is really about the only thing that could knock down Haden's grade by comparison.

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Regarding the pick I think it was competent, not amazing. Jason Pierre Paul, would have been an amazing pick, Rob Gronkowsky also for example.

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Just to further put things in context... is JPP the same guy here without Usi and Tuck and an established defense and an offense that can score points and get people behind?

Likewise, if Gronk goes to a team thats starting.. oh I don't know, Colt McCoy and Seneca Wallace and Brandon Weeden still the same Gronk that we see with Tom Brady?