|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,341 Likes: 98
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,341 Likes: 98 |
Quote:
I agree. at least 8/8 this year. but do not agree we would have been 8/8 with shurmer and nutcase heckert. more like 6/10. if luck into wins like last year.
I think we are going to alot better than most think ... JMHO  
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
Getting rid of Shurmur makes us a .500 team.
+1
Getting rid of the old regime is the biggest improvement that the new owner has made. That should get us at least a win or two.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
I'm not sure if it is unfounded or not, but isn't it a popular opinion that Weeden regressed as the season progressed?
Everyone could make up their own minds about how the season went.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/2012.htm
I know, statistics don't tell the whole story, but they tell part of the story.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703 |
I see a guy that had an atroicious first outing, and a low completion percentage in a NASTY weather game against San Diego, but a guy who had a pretty typical Rookie season.
Rough start (first game)
Played better in the next few weeks.
Had a 3-4 week period where he didn't play well, as defenses adjusted to him.
Figured it out, and played a little better.
I don't know, I guess I just see it as typical for a Rookie QB ... Unless "Typical" now means RGIII, Andrew Luck, Russel Wilson?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
He was put into an offense he had never been asked to run before, that not only didn't fit his strengths, it flat out exploited his weaknesses.
Which begs the question: Why did Holmgren/Heckert draft him to be the Browns QB?
To answer that question is to provide the basis for the reason that they were fired.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,802
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,802 |
It's almost as if he's constantly saying- and I'm paraphrasing here- "The last regime was so bad, that we can't bash anything the new regime does until we know 100% that it's a concrete failure. Also, most everything the last regime we did was trash. Otherwise we wouldn't have been 14-34 over that period. Arguing for any shades of gray in between that black and white wreaks of an agenda. Does that qualify as Pure Football around here anymore?!"
Weeden simply was mismatched into the WCO. Quick, smart decisions with the football working from under center after chilling in the gun in a spread throwing mostly off pre-snap reads was bound to be a rough year. Campbell was available last year, too. He should have had viable veteran competition instead of being handed the job for simply being an upgrade to Colt. I won't close the book on him yet, but he's in an offense tailored to his strengths now. I'd give him about a 35% chance of being the man and keeping that job past this year.
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703 |
Quote:
Quote:
He was put into an offense he had never been asked to run before, that not only didn't fit his strengths, it flat out exploited his weaknesses.
Which begs the question: Why did Holmgren/Heckert draft him to be the Browns QB?
To answer that question is to provide the basis for the reason that they were fired.
I don't know if it was ever said, but does anyone know who decided Weeden was the choice?
Did Shurmur convince H&H that he could gameplan around Weeden's strengths?
Did Heckert see talent in Weeden and drafted him with the hope Shurmur could gameplan around him?
Did Holmgren just pull rank?
Either way, Weeden was a square peg in a round hole last year.
This year, I won't make any excuses for Weeden. It's put up or shut up time.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703 |
Quote:
j/c: I didn't realize this was a thread about Weeden?
The funniest thing is how certain people get bent out of shape when people question Weeden? 
Are you kidding me? The guy was horrific. And y'all keep blaming Pat. Why? Who drafted him? Who insisted we run the stupid 90s version of the WCO? It wasn't Pat.
It was a stupid pick. And it's going to hurt this franchise for quite awhile. So, I guess there is a connection. Low expectations for next year.
It seems as if you're saying the pick was stupid because of the offense we ran, and the Quarterback we drafted.
But now we're running a complete opposite offensive style, and you're not willing to give Weeden a chance to sink or swim in this offense?
I don't know if Weeden will succeed. I will say, he was put in a bad position last year. Whose fault that is can be debated, and you can certainly say the pick was a bad pick because it was a bad fit. But I don't understand how someone can say, "It was a bad pick because it was a bad fit" while not giving Weeden the benefit of the doubt and waiting and seeing what happens this year.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
While I would agree that expectations should be tempered for next year... I think it's laughable that some of you think that an extra 3rd & 4th round pick next year is somehow going to net us a franchise QB. It won't.
Also, I continue to be amazed at the fascination some of you guys have for Dee Millner. DB's are not as valuable in a 3-4 as pass rushers. They have made that crystal clear this off-season.
I also find it funny that all the "Dee Millner guys" have a sudden fascination with Mingo's weight. I don't remember ANYONE ever having this much concern when D'Qwell Jackson, for example, was in the 220's when he was drafted by Phil & Romeo. Yet, look at him now. Couldn't be less of a concern. Mingo is atleast 10 lbs. heavier than Jackson was when he came out. Mingo will fill out to 255-260 in a couple years.. anyone who thinks otherwise or feels the need to fret over it really needs to find some better things to do to fill their time. Seriously.
I agree. I think that just having a first round pick will put us into position to get a franchise QB if Weeden fails to have 'it'.
I wasn't touting Mingo at all, but the 'lightweight' criticism of him is unfounded. He was drafted to be a pass-rusher and that's what he'll be able to do.
For what it's worth, here are his 'measurables' from the NFL Combine.
By comparison, here are Jabaal Sheard's 'measurables' from the NFL Combine in 2011.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
It sounded from the draft pressers at the time that Holmgren told heckert they were taking him at 22 instead of waiting for the second, but I don't remember a clear indication of Weeden being a pick of a particular person.
However, one of the things big show would always say was that he was brought in to, among other things, find the quarterback, so I think we can all connect the dots.
I'd be very surprised to learn that Shurmur went to bat for any prospect in the draft.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
I see a guy that had an atroicious first outing, and a low completion percentage in a NASTY weather game against San Diego, but a guy who had a pretty typical Rookie season.
Rough start (first game)
Played better in the next few weeks.
Had a 3-4 week period where he didn't play well, as defenses adjusted to him.
Figured it out, and played a little better.
I don't know, I guess I just see it as typical for a Rookie QB ... Unless "Typical" now means RGIII, Andrew Luck, Russel Wilson?
Well, none of them were 28 rookies when the season started and turned 29 during the first half of the season. He doesn't have the 'learning curve' that other rookie QBs would have (including Luck, RG3 and Russell Wilson). After one season, he's already closer to the end of his career than most starting QBs in the NFL.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
I don't know if it was ever said, but does anyone know who decided Weeden was the choice?
Did Shurmur convince H&H that he could gameplan around Weeden's strengths?
Come on. I hope you aren't serious about this. Heckert (and to some extent Holmgren) is the one that made these decisions. It was Shurmur's job to get them to work with them. Shurmur was hired by them and they knew his coaching philosophy, so they knew he would be running the WCO. Was that what it was? It didn't resemble the thing that Joe Montana executed on the field in any way.
Quote:
Did Heckert see talent in Weeden and drafted him with the hope Shurmur could gameplan around him?
Who cares? I know it wasn't Shurmur making the decision. If he was, then that is all the more reason why Holmgren & Heckert should have been fired.
Quote:
Did Holmgren just pull rank?
Who cares? I doubt that Holmgren would do that. Holmgren might 'pull rank' and say that we weren't going to draft a particular player, but I don't see that happening at #22.
Quote:
Either way, Weeden was a square peg in a round hole last year.
Again, that explains why Holmgren & Heckert were fired. It would be astonishing to me if either one was offered a serious position with a team for next year's draft.
Quote:
This year, I won't make any excuses for Weeden. It's put up or shut up time.
I'm not going to say anything about it because it isn't my decision to make. If I had my druthers about it, Weeden would never have been selected in the first place. But I don't, so I'll leave the determination of whether he gets another shot with the Browns to those that get paid to make that determination.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,950 Likes: 763
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,950 Likes: 763 |
Quote:
Quote:
Did Holmgren just pull rank?
Who cares? I doubt that Holmgren would do that. Holmgren might 'pull rank' and say that we weren't going to draft a particular player, but I don't see that happening at #22.
Holmgren pulled rank on the McCoy pick in 2010.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 901
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 901 |
I'm thinking playoffs this year. Browns are going to play so much better. There are holes but in Chud I trust!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 Likes: 83
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 Likes: 83 |
That's an interesting look at the first 6 games. Of course every game is winnable, but the only one I'd expect to see them win in that list is Detroit.
I hope to be pleasantly surprised.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,272 Likes: 168
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,272 Likes: 168 |
What frustrates me most about the Browns fans is that they have resigned themselves to a losing season, before mini-camp, training camp, or that a single game has been played.
We have new coaches, and the hope of a system that should fit the players better. The roster is not yet finalized, and we have a bunch of players who should be better in their second year....
Sure the season may be tough, but it is too soon to lower expectations.
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,248 Likes: 595
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,248 Likes: 595 |
I don't really have hard expectations (win-loss number or anything regarding stats). Lots of turnover again at the coaching ranks means things are going to look different. Some people won't fit in the new schemes, but we don't know who.
My expectations are that we will looks bad in the first few games. We won't look like we'll know what we're doing.
-Totally new offensive scheme
-Totally new defensive scheme
-Experimenting with the younger players who have shown potential, but haven't locked down a spot yet
-and lastly, we've got some holes in our team (TE, CB, FS?)
I'm hoping that the offensive scheme change will be the easiest to pick up, but that's just hope. We won't know until we see it.
I read in an article that Horton doesn't spoonfeed the D playbook to players. He drops it all on them on Day 1, and they just need to do the best they can until everything sinks in. That will make for some ugly defense for the first half of the season.
Hagg, Bademosi, Benji, and probably a couple other people I've forgotten, are HUGE question marks at gaping holes in our roster. I think that the FO wants to see them for themselves in our new O and D before adding more bodies for those positions. They are all overflowing with talent and potential, but not all of them are going to put all the pieces together. The FO needs to see which one (if any) can.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 137
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 137 |
j/c
I always temper my expectations for all of the sports teams I root for, and I think if everyone did so there would be a lot less nonsense on these boards.
For example, here are my expectations for my teams in their upcoming/current seasons:
Browns- Be in competition for a playoff spot in the last few weeks of the season
Blue Jackets- Make the playoffs
Reds- At least reach the NLCS
As opposed to last years:
Browns- Play hard, get the rookies some experience
Blue Jackets- Just play hard
Reds- Make the playoffs
Anything more is a bonus, anything less is a disappointment.
Looking at the Browns talent level and what I perceive as a major upgrade to the staff, my realistic expectation is that they get anywhere from 7-9 wins. If everything goes their way they could get lucky and get as many as 11. If the wheels fall off it could be as few as 3.
Proud fan of the Pulaski Academy football strategy.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805 Likes: 1
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
I'm thinking playoffs this year. Browns are going to play so much better. There are holes but in Chud I trust!
This is really rather simple. 3 things will determine where we stand come December's late games.
1) How Weed's plays in a Chud/Turner offense that he's lickin' his chops at.
2) How quickly this Defense picks it up.
3) Division games.
1) There's talent all over this offense. I bout' guarantee Weeden gets that completion % well above 60% going back to what he's comfortable in. The GUN. He'll be taking his shots deep but by no means are we going to be chuckin' it deep constantly. It's a proven FACT that when all of these so-called STUD QB's finally got that completion % at or above 65%, THAT is when those teams made the playoffs constantly. And some (Manning and Brady) have done so with AVG AT BEST Defenses behind them.
2) There's talent all over this defense. We have built an exceptional front 7. ILB is my only real question mark. And I have zero problem with fielding a Secondary consisting of Haden/McFadden/Ward/Gipson. There's worse out there. Baltimore's has been decimated. Pitt's lost their best CB in Lewis. Cincy's just flat out BLOWS. How quickly these guys pick this up is the 2nd key to this season and where we stand come playoff push time in December.
3) HUGE KEY HERE. I don't care what Baltimore did in FA or the Draft. This football team has been decimated on both offense (Boldin) and defense. Decimated to the likes we've virtually NEVER seen before. They've lost virtually every single piece of leadership on that team. It's mind blowing what they lost.
Pitt's lost their best CB, best pass rusher and best WR. And one of the key pieces in that defense for years has been Hampton at Nose. GONE GONE. And that OL is one of the worst in the league. Watch what happens to Rothburger when we hit them this year.
Cincy will ALWAYS be an AVG playoff team as long as Mike Brown runs that pathetic show and Lewis is the HC of this team. NOTHING will ever change in Cincy.
I see it as very feasable that we go 4-2 in this division this year. Pitt and Baltimore are nowhere near what they used to be.
THOSE 3 things will determine if we are in a playoff push come December. And it might just come down to that last Pitt game in December. Our last 7 games coming off the bye-week are:
Pitt twice
Cincy
Jax
Chicago
Jets
NE
And 4 of the last 5 are:
Jax
Chicago
Jets
Pitt
That is PERFECTLY set up for a playoff push.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Quote:
Are you saying the coach wasn't in charge or the offense? That he wasn't calling the plays?
How did you get that from my post? You seem like a pretty smart guy, so I am assuming [especially after your comments on the Bess] thread that you are trying to make me look bad and/or dismiss my opinions.
Pat called the plays. He was in charge of the offense. I'm saying that Pat was hand-picked by The Big Show because he was going to run Holmgren's version of the WCO.
I am also saying that H and H KNEW that we were going to run that version of WCO and we still drafted Weeden. It made no sense. I didn't like Pat as a HC, but putting all the blame on him is pure BS! The Big Show and Heckert KNEW exactly what they were getting w/Weeden and and they KNEW what type of offense we were going to run.
Is that clear enough?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Quote:
It's almost as if he's constantly saying- and I'm paraphrasing here- "The last regime was so bad, that we can't bash anything the new regime does until we know 100% that it's a concrete failure. Also, most everything the last regime we did was trash. Otherwise we wouldn't have been 14-34 over that period. Arguing for any shades of gray in between that black and white wreaks of an agenda. Does that qualify as Pure Football around here anymore?!"
Gee, another guy who ignores multiple posts that are riddled w/holes and chooses mine to rip. Let me clarify for my position for you:
--Yes, I am saying the last regime was bad. A team like Seattle was in worse shape that us when The Big Show was trying to maneuver his way back in there. They shut him down despite The Big Show's very public campaign. The Big Show came to Cleveland. Posters would always mock Seattle in the first couple of years. Heck, one guy even had a "Think the Browns are bad, Russell Wilson could be your QB" as his sig. I think Seattle is one of the top 2 teams in the league right now. Meanwhile, I keep hearing about all the young talent we have. I'm sorry that I disagree w/you guys that the previous regime was so bad.
--100% concrete failure? Another smart*** comment. Actually, my stance is that the change in the FO and coaching staff has given me hope. [how terrible]. I have said during the FA period that is was too early to say they suck! I have said to give them a couple of years. Heck, that's less than the previous regime got? I have said I don't know if they will be successful, but I hope they will be successful.
--No, not everything the previous regime did was trash. I liked many of their moves. I wanted Schwartz in last year's draft. I had him as a 3rd or 4th rounder. I even wrote a player profile on him. They took him in the 2nd. I thought it was too early. Scwartz played well. I admitted I was wrong. I loved the Winn pick at the time and still do. I thought Sheard was a good pick. Ward was a decent pick. They got good value out of Lava. Finding Robertson and Fort off the streets was excellent. I like the upside of Gordon, but I do worry about his drug issue. Getting Grecko was a solid move. He played well as Pinkston's replacement. Speaking of Pinkston, he was a great value for where he was taken.
--Arguing = agenda. Wow, another BS comment. I don't mind people having an opposing opinion. Those who know me know that I welcome debate. But listen pal, if you can't see that there are several people on this board that do are actively looking for reasons to bash the new FO, then your perception of things is clouding reality.
--Oh, and I love your talking pure football comment. Nice. Do you feel tougher now?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Quote:
It seems as if you're saying the pick was stupid because of the offense we ran, and the Quarterback we drafted.
But now we're running a complete opposite offensive style, and you're not willing to give Weeden a chance to sink or swim in this offense?
I do think that Weeden was not a good fit for the WCO.
Where have I said that Weeden does not deserve a chance to prove himself? Can you find one post where I said that? Save your time. I never said that.
Here is what I have said:
--his decision making is too slow.
--he has poor pocket presence.
--he is not all that accurate other than a couple types of throws.
--he is apparently not a hard worker.
--he was not very gutty last year.
--he threw his coaches under the bus for calling a play that hadn't practiced that particular week.
--he did not read defenses at the LOS.
--his reading of coverages was very poor.
--he showed no anticipation skills.
--he didn't throw receivers open.
--he did not demonstrate "it."
I think that some of those things can be overcome by good coaching and being put in the right system. I simply do NOT think all of those issues will be resolved by a coaching and scheme change. For example, his problems w/anticipation and reading coverages are going to be tough to overcome.
With that said, you didn't see me running around here saying we should draft a qb this year. You didn't see me complaining about not taking a qb. I didn't see any of the guys in this year's draft as a better option than Weeden. They all have huge question marks in their game.
I have also said that while I have doubts about Weeden making it, the smartest move is to roll w/him and see what he has. I am not overly optimistic about him succeeding, but he has a chance.
I wonder if the guy I previously posted to thinks this post is about football?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,946 Likes: 70
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,946 Likes: 70 |
Quote:
Those who know me know that I welcome debate.
To be fair, yes, you do...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,153 Likes: 134
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,153 Likes: 134 |
Quote:
What scares the hell out of me is we make this big change to an attack 3-4 and following this season, after the annual NFL bloodletting, Horton gets a HC gig. Leaving us with a defense that only a few coaches in the league know how to run....
IT happens,, you move on. That's the way it works.
I mean, we were just on the receiving end of that with Chud. He was doing a pretty fine job and we snagged him as our head coach. I didn't hear any complaints about it.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Quote:
How did you get that from my post?
Quote:
Who insisted we run the stupid 90s version of the WCO? It wasn't Pat.
I agreed with most of what you put in your first post that I responded to. This part puzzled me, as I haven't heard or seen anything to suggest Shurmur wasn't a boorish, stuck-in-his-ways, inflexible guy who will take an any-shaped peg he is given and try to jam it into his round hole. Your post seemed to indicate that you had some reason to think Shurmur was forced to run his offense a certain way, personnel be damned. That's why I asked you to say more on this, because I hadn't heard anything previously where he wanted to do something different but was overridden. I'd say he is culpable along with the other guys for the scheme mismatch we saw play out over the season. It's the coach's job to put the team in the best position to succeed, can we agree on that? The team is made up of the players on it.
I fully agree that Weeden shouldn't have been drafted by the previous regime. In fact, I probably have an embarrassingly-long list of posts saying as much from before, during, and after the draft last year. In fact, he was left off of my top-150 big board I made last year because I thought it was such a bad match. That, to me, doesn't completely absolve the coach of his primary responsibility, which is to put his team in the best position to win, whether it be through scheme or motivation or play calling or whatever.
A lot of us say or hear something along the lines of "the best coaches are the ones who play to their players' strengths." A pseudo-contrapositive of that could be phrased as "the coaches who ignore their players' strengths and weaknesses are bad coaches." He was still the head coach, and it was still his job to make the lemonade.
I think a lot of these coaches who rigidly stick to their system are worried that they have to show what a good coach they are, and if they say "hey, player A is good at Z, let's just have him do Z" then the success will not be seen as theirs. Shurmur and Holmgren's repeated claims of "we have a system... and the system works" to me screamed "it's all about me, and everyone else is lucky to be along for the ride."
Bottom line is, I hold them both (and also Weeden) culpable in the struggles Weeden had as a rookie. I hope he'll do better in this new system... I expect that he will do better. However, he did miss an open receiver downfield more than a couple times last year. I still remember MoMass streaking wide open on the right sideline and Weeden sailing the ball 20 yards out of bounds. He was a rookie, though, and I hope he improves.
As an aside, I'm not a "with me or against me" guy. I think Holmgren was extremely lazy and somewhat arrogant in his time here, so if you think I'm a supporter of his I'm letting you know it's not the case. I do often ask people to explain or substantiate their claims, which isn't always a good look, but hey, we all have our faults.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 81
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 81 |
i don't care what system weeden is in. when you never look off your primary reciever you won't get it in the nfl.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 40
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 40 |
problem with Weeden is he was the 3rd from the bottom of all the qb's that played with 600 reps. Even in a bad system for him, he wasn't even close to lousy qb' s with other teams. He made a lot of rookie mistakes and all we kept being told is , he is an older guy with pro experience in baseball and should be more mature. Guess what guys, he wasn't. He was the worst of the qb rookie class by far. AJ
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
He was the worst of the qb rookie class by far.
RGIII & Wilson were above and beyond. No question.
Luck 54% 273yds/game 7.0YPA 23TD 18INT 10Fumbles 41Sack
Weeden 57% 225yds/game 6.5YPA 14TD 17INT 6Fumbles 28Sack
Tannehill 58% 206yds/game 6.8YPA 12TD 13INT 9 Fumbles 35Sack
All three of those guys were very similar. Luck was the best, especially considering his 4th quarter comeback wins, but it wasn't by a ridiculous margin. And, Weeden was better than Tannehill.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
I misinterpreted your first response to me. I apologize. I agree w/most everything you say, however, I do think that The Big Show brought Shurmur in here to run his version of the WCO. I think his ego was a hinderance to our development. I do agree w/your comments on Shurmur and that he did not adjust to his talent. I do think his hands were tied by The Big Show, but I doubt he would have adjusted anyway. I agree w/you about coaches changing their schemes to fit talent. Don Shula had a big ego, but the guy went from an attack that relied on the running of Csonka, Kiick, and Mercury Morris and then he switched to a pass happy offense that featured Marino and the Marx brothers. That's fairly impressive. Anyway, I was wrong in regards to your post. Again, I apologize. Also: I noticed that you pimped the rookie who sold marijuana to the cop. I had never even heard the guy and you were all over that. Nicely done.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,990 Likes: 362
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,990 Likes: 362 |
I am absolutely certain that Holmgren tied Shurmur's hands, to a large degree.
Look at what happened immediately after Holmgren packed up and moved on. The very next week we ran some Wildcat with Cribbs for the first time in Shurmur's tenure.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 40
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 40 |
sorry, but of those three, who missed on 3rd down most of the time?, who missed on bringing their team back and who had the lowest by far qbr rating? What I mean is that when the game is on the line, Weeden didn't step up. Tell me Luck or RG3 or even tannehill didn't step up to put their team in a place to win? They love Tannehill down in Miami and they seem to know what they have in him. Don't have that here and Weeden is 6 years older, much wiser, or at least according to the coaches that drafted him and did not progress as the season went on. Tannehill did or at least the Dolphins said he did. I want Weeden to succeed more than anyone but he didn't show what I expected him to last year and hope he does this year.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
Yea, I'm kind of confused by it myself... if Shurmur was the HC and the OC, then who was it that wanted to run the WCO? Are you saying Shurmur would have done something else but this was forced on him by Holmgren?
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,950 Likes: 763
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,950 Likes: 763 |
Quote:
who missed on bringing their team back and who had the lowest by far qbr rating?
This statement and others like it make my skin crawl.
1. NO QB brings a team back on their own. Without the other players doing their part as well, the QB will "fail". We had more than one game "won" in the 4th Qtr, but the balls were dropped by the WR.
2. QBR is an ESPN manufactured joke that is 100% human subjectivity being passed off as if were something standardized with some validity. The standard QB rating isn't great, but at least it is what it is and it isn't influenceable by individual human opinion or bias.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,950 Likes: 763
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,950 Likes: 763 |
Quote:
Yea, I'm kind of confused by it myself... if Shurmur was the HC and the OC, then who was it that wanted to run the WCO? Are you saying Shurmur would have done something else but this was forced on him by Holmgren?
I think that Shurmur would have simply done his own thing... whatever that may be. Almost certainly still the WCO, but perhaps not the uber-vanilla crap that we saw. The evidence is out there, though. As soon as the Walrus was gone, Shurmur was calling things differently.
For as much experience as the offensive staff had in the WCO, it just strikes me that none of them could get out of each other's way. Too many cooks spoil the soup, as it were. I think that it is evidenced most in the clusterfudge of how plays got called in from up in the booth through Shurmur and finally to the field. How many times did that screw us up? Lots.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,946 Likes: 70
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,946 Likes: 70 |
Quote:
... pseudo-contrapositive ...
Wow! And I thought I had heard every word in the English language. Nice...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
if our previous regime was still here, then you would be hearing the same things about Weeden that they are about Tannehill. we have guys who are not tied to him. if he works out, then great. if not, it's not on them.
as Prp noted, the QBR is a Trent Dilfer manufactured stat that bases a good portion of itself on who ends up winning a game. I was hoping it would be a good analytical tool, but it sadly is not as presently constructed.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,692
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,692 |
Quote:
Getting rid of Shurmur makes us a 500 team.
This pretty much sums it up for me. Shurmur cost us a lot on game day and throughout the season in regards to player development.
I think we break that 5 win mark and get 7 wins this year. I think the defense will be improved as will the offense. TR will break 1500 all-purpose yards easily.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
No, I am saying that Shurmur was brought in here by Holmgren because they ran the same offense. I thought that was common knowledge???
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Quote:
Also: I noticed that you pimped the rookie who sold marijuana to the cop. I had never even heard the guy and you were all over that. Nicely done.
Thanks vers. I only knew about him because I happened to go to the Texas vs the nation game this year and Bryant absolutely dominated that game. Had I not seen him there I'd probably have written him off at the combine as just another name with good size, but this guy can play.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950 |
Quote:
Lower your expectations for next year?
LOL..This thread makes me chuckle.....Lower your expectations....Were Browns fans.....1 winning season in 12 years.....do we even have expectations to lower and if we did can they really get much lower...LOL, I know what your saying, not making fun of you...but over the last 6-7 years I've kinda grown numb of expectations,
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Lower your expectations for next
year?
|
|
