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Make of it what you will: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...ardinals-scheme"The Arizona Cardinals defense under former coordinator Ray Horton was mostly successful and hard to prepare for. But it required sacrifices from one of its best players, and Darnell Dockett is happy Horton is now gone. "Personally, I had nothing against Ray," Dockett told Darren Urban of the team's official website. "But I hated that scheme. I really hated it. I played it because I needed to. But this defense is based on guys and what their ability allows them to be good at. What they were drafted for." Dockett will be allowed to go after his blockers one-on-one and the quarterback more in new coordinator Todd Bowles' scheme. Horton asked his defensive linemen to take on blocks. "It's like a million pounds off your shoulders," Dockett said. Unlike Dockett, Calais Campbell excelled in Horton's scheme. But even Campbell is excited for the change. "Darnell and myself, I feel like we have the ability to make a lot of different plays, but sometimes in the 3-4 you have to put the team in front of yourself. This defense, the way we are doing things, it gives us a chance to make a difference," Campbell said. Arizona quietly has one of the most talented defenses in the league. It starts with Campbell and Dockett, and extends to suspended linebacker Daryl Washington at linebacker and Patrick Peterson in the secondary. If the Cardinals weren't stuck in the NFC West, we'd see Carson Palmer and the gang as a sneaky sleeper pick."
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sounds like a guy who is mad he didnt get to pad his stats imo.
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"But I hated that scheme. I really hated it. I played it because I needed to. But this defense is based on guys and what their ability allows them to be good at. What they were drafted for."
Seems like thats the best way to accomplish a goal unless your stacked with super stars.
So guess we will see as the year goes on who's scheme works better, for the team overall.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Quote:
sounds like a guy who is mad he didnt get to pad his stats imo.
I hear ... Me me me me me me me ...  
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Dockett was asked to absorb blockers when he was previously allowed to go after the QB. I wouldn't like that scheme either. He is also a crazy person.
Rubin and Taylor haven't had the prior success that Dockett did and are not crazy people. I don't see a problem.
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jc,
This is called "Shaun Rogers" Syndrome.
Tackles are tackles.
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It instantly reminded me of Big Baby, funny you should say that lol!
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2nd String
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Can't blame him for hating Horton's scheme, it requires a lot of thinking and being a defensive lineman in a 3-4 will never be as fun as being a defensive lineman in a 4-3, no matter how attack-heavy the 3-4 DC is.
The good thing about Horton's scheme is that it succeeds in what it sets out to do — put huge amounts of pressure on the QB, force turnovers, and of course, give up few points. It may not be fun to play in for certain guys, but it sure is effective.
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Quote:
Can't blame him for hating Horton's scheme, it requires a lot of thinking and being a defensive lineman in a 3-4 will never be as fun as being a defensive lineman in a 4-3, no matter how attack-heavy the 3-4 DC is.
That's about the gist of it, right there. Dline in a 3-4 in glory-less grunt work. You won't get the fat stats, and what sucks more about that is if you aren't getting the fat stats and you aren't getting the glory and press, you won't be getting the uber contracts, either. So, you really can't blame the guy at all.
Quote:
The good thing about Horton's scheme is that it succeeds in what it sets out to do — put huge amounts of pressure on the QB, force turnovers, and of course, give up few points. It may not be fun to play in for certain guys, but it sure is effective.
I soooo hope that this pans out here. Right now, we have a whole lot of "looks good on paper, in theory". Let's hope we can put it all into reality.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I can see his POV but it this sort of comes off as a " I want what is best for me" article, the staatement he was unhappy because the defense was geared to allowing players to do what thy do best is telling. Lets hope it dos the same here - plays to our players strengths  In any defense certain players , groups ( LB, DL ) are asked to make sacrfices for the good of the scheme, this one is no different.
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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I agree with everything you said other than d-linemen not getting "uber contracts". That is a bit skewed IMO. They get their money! Sure, not 100 mil like Romo is getting, but our own Bryant was given what, 5 year 34 million?
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Someone correct me here, but Dockett didn't like the scheme because it required him to adopt more of a team concept then one that allowed him to do what HE felt he was better at?
Do I have that right?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
the staatement he was unhappy because the defense was geared to allowing players to do what thy do best is telling. Lets hope it dos the same here - plays to our players strengths
He was speaking about their new defense with that part of the statement, not Horton's defense.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Someone correct me here, but Dockett didn't like the scheme because it required him to adopt more of a team concept then one that allowed him to do what HE felt he was better at?
Do I have that right?
Exactly ... like I said ... ME me me me me me 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Quote:
I agree with everything you said other than d-linemen not getting "uber contracts". That is a bit skewed IMO. They get their money! Sure, not 100 mil like Romo is getting, but our own Bryant was given what, 5 year 34 million?
They'll get money, sure, but not the kind of money that a JJ Watt, Julius Peppers, Mario Williams, or Dwight Freeney will get. Those guys have the eye popping numbers and household recognition (which translates to merchandise sales) to support big contracts. Even famous 3-4 linemen like Ted Washington, Richard Seymour, and Casey Hampton never touched those levels of money.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Quote:
Someone correct me here, but Dockett didn't like the scheme because it required him to adopt more of a team concept then one that allowed him to do what HE felt he was better at?
Do I have that right?
Exactly ... like I said ... ME me me me me me
Well, if that's the case, then I'm glad horton is here and dockett is there.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Somehow Calais Campbell managed to play DE at a very high level in Horton's defense, and had 63 and 72 tackles,and 6.5 sacks and 8 (career high) in Horton's defense.
Dockett had 2 really good years from a pass rush aspect. He had 9 sacks in 2007, and 7 in 2009. Other than that, his high is 5 sacks ..... and he's had a ton of seasons where he had .5 to 4 sacks. 7 of his seasons have been in that range. Horton was only in Zona for 2 of them.
Horton's defense actually allows for the DL to rush the passer far more than other defenses do. The DL aren't just space eaters. They are an active part of the pass rush.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Somehow Calais Campbell managed to play DE at a very high level in Horton's defense, and had 63 and 72 tackles,and 6.5 sacks and 8 (career high) in Horton's defense.
Dockett had 2 really good years from a pass rush aspect. He had 9 sacks in 2007, and 7 in 2009. Other than that, his high is 5 sacks ..... and he's had a ton of seasons where he had .5 to 4 sacks. 7 of his seasons have been in that range. Horton was only in Zona for 2 of them.
Horton's defense actually allows for the DL to rush the passer far more than other defenses do. The DL aren't just space eaters. They are an active part of the pass rush.
I'll take your word on the stats. So to me that sounds like he's a guy talking out of his butt here..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Calais Campbell is one hell of a player. He is ferocious. He had no sacks as a rookie, but has had 27.5 in the 4 years since. His career high was 2011 (under Horton) with 8.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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To me, this is a telling quote: Quote:
"Darnell and myself, I feel like we have the ability to make a lot of different plays, but sometimes in the 3-4 you have to put the team in front of yourself. This defense, the way we are doing things, it gives us a chance to make a difference," Campbell said.
Sometimes?
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
#gmstrong
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Be careful what you wish for Darnell.
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probably is more fun for him to be in the new scheme. but, I'll take a bet with him that the Browns defense improves by efficiency metrics while the Arizona defense goes down in those rankings.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Can't blame him for hating Horton's scheme, it requires a lot of thinking and being a defensive lineman in a 3-4 will never be as fun as being a defensive lineman in a 4-3, no matter how attack-heavy the 3-4 DC is.
JJ Watt laughs at this statement... 
I'm just kidding and I actually agree with you for the most part.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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All Pro
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If I were the Director of Pro Personnel in Arizona I'd call Darnell in for a little chat. Maybe tell him he's been traded to Cleveland, just for laughs. I wonder how he'd take it?
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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Quote:
To me, this is a telling quote:
Quote:
"Darnell and myself, I feel like we have the ability to make a lot of different plays, but sometimes in the 3-4 you have to put the team in front of yourself. This defense, the way we are doing things, it gives us a chance to make a difference," Campbell said.
Sometimes?
Yea, sometimes. I think you are reading too much into it. Sometimes you get to pin your ears back and go after the QB or shoot the gap on a run play, etc... other times you have to eat up blockers or occupy space so somebody else can make the play... I wouldn't read too much into that one comment.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
"...sometimes in the 3-4 you have to put the team in front of yourself."
Gentlemen, could someone help me with this? I fear I might be a bit confused. Football is a team sport, right?
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You're reading way too much into it. Leonard Nimoy has retired, don't go "In Search Of...".
All he is saying is that their new scheme allows the DLinemen to freelance more, meaning that super-strict "eat blockers" roles aren't their primary focus now, which is, in fact, one of the bigger differences between 3-4 and 4-3 in terms of positional roles
In a 3-4, the DLine are given the workman duties of eating blockers so the LBers can get the glory.
The 4-3 turns the DLine loose more so that they can get the glory.
Everyone who has ever stepped onto the field wants to be the one making the plays, I don't see why it would change any at the pro level.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Unlike Dockett, Calais Campbell excelled in Horton's scheme. But even Campbell is excited for the change.
"Darnell and myself, I feel like we have the ability to make a lot of different plays, but sometimes in the 3-4 you have to put the team in front of yourself. This defense, the way we are doing things, it gives us a chance to make a difference," Campbell said.
This tells you all you need to know. God forbid you put the team first.
There are a couple of people who hate the new regime so much that they are blowing that comment off and acting like these two guys really have a point, even though YTown put out the numbers for everyone to see.
Hey, let's not let facts and common sense get in the way of bashing the FO!
And I have one question for you haters: Who is more highly regarded in NFL circles---Horton or the guy who took his place? Would you rather we hired him? LMAO---you would have been crying a river over what a stupid hire.
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I haven't seen one response on this thread alluding to bashing the FO in any way. Do you always have to try and start this kind of stuff in every new thread? Why even say stuff like this at all? Stop trying to pick fights....grow up.
Tackles are tackles.
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You either don't know how to read [see Purple's post] or you are just being your usual hateful self. Probably both.
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Those two guys DO have a point, but it's nothing earth-shattering or demeaning to anyone in any way, and some people are blowing the whole thing WAY out of proportion. The statement isn't a big deal. It's just a guy saying that he wants to be a playmaker instead of the invisible man that allows someone else to be the playmaker. That's it... it's not a big deal.
He probably could have worded it a bit better, but that's about it.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Well, I will agree it was pretty harmless. They were probably saying those things to show that they are excited about playing for new DC.
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Tackles are tackles.
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Or what? Seriously Memphis. What are you going to do?
Pile on w/other people to demean me? You've been doing that for years. So, what are you going to do?
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Well, of course they're going to say they're excited about playing for the new guy... *every* player does that when a new coach comes in.
For them, and the type of player they are, they wanna eat the QB. They don't want to be Ted Washington anchoring one spot and letting guys run around them to the play... they want to hit the QB, but that's not what a 3-4 asks of them, so can anyone really blame them for not liking it?
They did their job, and they did it the way they were told - that's evidenced by Horton's results, correct?... that's all that matters. You don't have to like what you're doing to do it well. Heck, name one high energy player that DOES want to be taken out of the picture to let someone else make the play.
It's all much ado about nothing.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I was agreeing w/you.
Did you happen to read the stats that YTown posted? Just wondering?
I will agree w/you about something else. It is all much to do about nothing.
Last edited by Versatile Dog; 05/08/13 08:34 PM.
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If the shoe doesn't fit, do no wear them Dockett crying and whining about his role is nothing more then him overrating his ability. He can't make or break the Browns. He is nothing more then a body, a body who thinks his value is higher then his actual skill set. Cut him.He is not the organizations savior as of now. He will not break the goals of the Browns and needs to understand his role.
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I know you were agreeing, I was just expanding upon it  edit: which stats? - not seeing any in this thread
Last edited by PrplPplEater; 05/08/13 08:37 PM.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Stats mean squat. Do I find them interesting at times? Yes Do I take them as the be all end all? Hell no. Take those numbers for what they are worth, and that worth is nothing. Numbers can be manipulated, it doesn't mean anything until the player duplicates them in a Browns uniform. Actions speak louder then words, and until he ruins that, he needs to just shut up an color, and do the job given to him.
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Agreed. 
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Darnell Dockett "hated" Horton's
scheme
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