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So, in essence you believe the President should know every move each of the 2.5 million Federal Employees are doing at all times? Do I have that right?
Absolutely not. What I am saying (since this has bee going on since early 2010), that Obama knew somewhere down the line or a very high official somewhere along the line did.
Also, as the president, Obama is ultimately responsible for those under his charge.
To quote Harry Truman, 'The buck stops here.' Yes. Obama is responsible for the work that everyone working under him does.
Furthermore, Obama should have known. If he didn't know, that doesn't mean that it shouldn't reflect on him.
It's the same reason why he's taking heat for what happened in Benghazi (although, he may have had more direct culpability for that). Hillary Clinton's failures are his failures. He is the ultimate person responsible for the deaths of the ambassador and the others three men. Yes, it rests on his shoulders.
Wow,, so you are saying he doesn't have to know what everyone is doing, but then in essence you are saying he does by saying he "SHOULD" have known
Can you please make up your mind.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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j/c IRS targeting scandal: Liberal organizations are angry, too (CBS News) CINCINNATI - In the run up to the last election, dozens of new political organizations tried to get tax-exempt status from the IRS by claiming that they were really social welfare groups. The IRS had to investigate whether each organization was actually spending most of its time on social welfare or politics. The IRS has admitted it targeted conservative groups -- but what about liberals? When Jeff Cohen's left-leaning Action for a Progressive Future applied for an IRS tax exemption, the process was too long and too slow, he says. But it was much easier for him than it was for tea party groups. Acting IRS commissioner steps down, Obama announces The IRS targeting controversy: A timeline Source: Two IRS employees disciplined in wake of targeting scandal Cohen answered nine IRS questions, many of them about the politics of his website, but he was approved after 18 months. By contrast, tea party groups faced dozens of questions and many are still waiting for approval after two-and-a-half years. "I'm for the IRS toughly probing all groups applying for tax exempt status. But they shouldn't scrutinize certain groups because they're on the left or the right," Cohen said. According to the Treasury Inspector General's report, IRS scrutiny of the tea party began in 2010, in the tax exemption unit based in Cincinnati. Specialists in charge of denying tax exemptions to groups whose mission is primarily political began screening applications using three search terms: "tea party," "9/12" and "patriot." In fact, the report says the words, "tea party" became the "shorthand term for all potential political cases." Jeff Cohen calls the targeting of anyone's politics appalling. "Because remember, if groups who have the name 'tea party' in their name, those words, can be targeted now. In a few years groups with the word 'progressive' in their name could be targeted by the IRS. It's wrong in either case." While the report calls the search terms "inappropriate" it still concludes the Cincinnati office was "not politically biased." Of the 298 organizations the office reviewed, only a third was triggered by conservative search terms. Two thirds were not. However, every tea party group was reviewed. What's missing in the Inspector General's report is the question of why the searches lacked political balance. The investigators call the use of the search terms wrong---but Scott--they don't report asking why all the terms specifically targeted the right.
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Dawg,
Anarchy2day clearly does not work because anyone who has worked in a large company, organization..etc. knows that the CEO/President..will not know the day to day small operations in company. By his logic Pres Obama gets a report on the daily operations of the IRS field office in Cincy, down to a specific Unit!!.
But to all you so-called conservatives, did any of you all READ (* I know, Conservative and readin does not work with you all!!..LMFAO *) the IRS's IG report. Probably not!!. I know the fox channel told you all not to worry about that. But for everyone else, you might want to read it because you might find that the so-called targets were not done out of political spite but out of processing and lack of direction!!
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2013/05/politics/irs-timeline/index.html
Yeah, I don't work for a large company. At least, not any more. I used to work for Tandy Corporation (now Radio Shack) some 15 years ago now.
And that's not my logic. You have a comprehension problem. I can tell you that if I was the CEO of a large corporation and there had been criminal activity going on in a portion of my company for 3 years and I learned of it - I wouldn't behave as Obama has.
Yeah, that's what happened. So Obama made a show of it by 'firing' a man that would be leaving in a couple of weeks anyway and who will be remaining on the job until the time he would have been leaving anyway.
But, I digress. I won't bother with you. You ain't got the sense of a rock.
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Please, Anyone who worked for Tandy need not give organizational advice to anyone! And BTW please name the criminal activity that took place at the IRS??? We would like to hear your made up fantasy charges. Along with that fantasy job as a CEO!!..LMAO.. Hey, you can be the new CEO of Tandy!!.. And since you feel this way, I know you think old Jimmy Haslam is a criminal also!!
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I agree again. My point is that the system has evolved into one where the President is purposely kept in the dark so he can have plausible deniability. So while we can punish Obama for being in the dark (which I believe he was) we also need to figure out how to fix the system or the next President is just going to do the same thing.... and you can't fire, impeach, or imprison a guy because other people, even people he hired, did something that he knew nothing about.
First of all, if the president was kept in the dark, why is he not stomping around the white house right now looking for the people that did this. He should be leading the investigation, not impeding it. This 'plausible deniability' angle is nothing more than crap. It's his administration, it's the people that he's hired, it's the same type of dogma he's expressed before. If he's truly in the dark, and people have committed crimes under his watch, he needs to expose them for what they are. We are not seeing this action out of the president.
![[Linked Image from s2.excoboard.com]](http://s2.excoboard.com/forums/25521/user/302752/484538.gif)
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I agree again. My point is that the system has evolved into one where the President is purposely kept in the dark so he can have plausible deniability. So while we can punish Obama for being in the dark (which I believe he was) we also need to figure out how to fix the system or the next President is just going to do the same thing.... and you can't fire, impeach, or imprison a guy because other people, even people he hired, did something that he knew nothing about.
Jesus, man, you're starting to sound like me. 
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Now can we get an apoligy from the IRS for targeting minority and liberal groups in the 50's 60's 70's, 80's and 90's? Doubt it, only when the utra white and ultra conservative groups are targeted they scream foul that something is all of a sudden wrong with the IRS, and want to impeach the black president. Double standards as usual. 
What is an "ultra white" person. I love how you imply that is all racially motivated, when you yourself clearly have some racism issues.
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Isn't Ultra White a laundry detergent?
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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that's what I thought, too. or a toothpaste.
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Dawg,
Anarchy2day clearly does not work because anyone who has worked in a large company, organization..etc. knows that the CEO/President..will not know the day to day small operations in company. By his logic Pres Obama gets a report on the daily operations of the IRS field office in Cincy, down to a specific Unit!!.
But to all you so-called conservatives, did any of you all READ (* I know, Conservative and readin does not work with you all!!..LMFAO *) the IRS's IG report. Probably not!!. I know the fox channel told you all not to worry about that. But for everyone else, you might want to read it because you might find that the so-called targets were not done out of political spite but out of processing and lack of direction!!
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2013/05/politics/irs-timeline/index.html
Yeah, I don't work for a large company. At least, not any more. I used to work for Tandy Corporation (now Radio Shack) some 15 years ago now.
And that's not my logic. You have a comprehension problem. I can tell you that if I was the CEO of a large corporation and there had been criminal activity going on in a portion of my company for 3 years and I learned of it - I wouldn't behave as Obama has.
Yeah, that's what happened. So Obama made a show of it by 'firing' a man that would be leaving in a couple of weeks anyway and who will be remaining on the job until the time he would have been leaving anyway.
But, I digress. I won't bother with you. You ain't got the sense of a rock.
If you were the CEO of a company the size of the Tandy (which by the way has owned Radio Shack for something like 30+ years, odd you didn't know that. I bet if you were the CEO you would however) you would NOT be able to know everything that goes on. it's impossible to know everything. Whether it's been going for 1 day or 10 years. But what is important is that when you find out, you take immediate action.
As for him firing the guy that may only be there for another month, geesh, what do you expect him to do, wait until they hire a full time guy and fire him? The person in charge (no matter a temporary assignment or not) is the one that needs to be called on the carpet.
you have a real lack of knowledge about how big companies work and how complex they are. Even companies with tight controls can hire a rogue person that goes off and does stupid stuff.
I'm going to go way outside the box for a second here. And I'm not saying this happened. But, what if Tea Party bribed a couple of IRS folks to give conservative groups a rough time about the tax exempt status they are trying to obtain?
Why would they do that has got to be your first question. The answer is simple, it all washes back up on Obama and will make him look bad.
Anyway, they know they are going to get the status they want, it would only slow it down a bit and further erode any existing faith in Obama.
AGAIN, I AM NOT SAYING THEY DID THAT. I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF IT AT ALL. I'M MERELY SAYING IT COULD HAVE HAPPENED.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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That would be Ultra-Bright, which clearly this guy isn't.
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I agree again. My point is that the system has evolved into one where the President is purposely kept in the dark so he can have plausible deniability. So while we can punish Obama for being in the dark (which I believe he was) we also need to figure out how to fix the system or the next President is just going to do the same thing.... and you can't fire, impeach, or imprison a guy because other people, even people he hired, did something that he knew nothing about.
A couple points ... one, isn't this how the mafia operated? Have 7 degrees of separation between the top level and the guys actually carrying out orders. That way you couldn't pin it on the guy actually calling for the "hits" and such.
Also, not sure how you can really "fix" that system. You've got 2.5 million government employees, and the President can't exactly micromanage all of them by himself. There has to be some sort of hierarchic, which inherently means you're going to have several layers of bureaucracy and the potential for one of those layers to run off and do their own illegal things. Then it's back to the guessing game of, "Well did he find and get rid of those responsible or have them fall on a sword for him?"
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He may determine that certain people are culpable and take appropriate action, but that doesn't end his responsibility.
So what would end his responsibility? Should he resign? Should he turn himself in to the authorities for prosecution?
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So, either these employees are lying or their bosses are.
And as soon as all of those questions are answered, then we can talk about punishment of those involved.
I really don't think we are that far apart in what we want to happen with this.. perhaps I'm just having a hard time communicating it.
yebat' Putin
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Please,
Anyone who worked for Tandy need not give organizational advice to anyone! And BTW please name the criminal activity that took place at the IRS??? We would like to hear your made up fantasy charges. Along with that fantasy job as a CEO!!..LMAO.. Hey, you can be the new CEO of Tandy!!..
And since you feel this way, I know you think old Jimmy Haslam is a criminal also!!
You apparently don't have a clue. I worked for Delta Airlines for 15 years. 70,000+ employees. We went through quite a few CEOs. It doesn't matter if it's a scandal, a bankruptcy, a bad business deal, a plane crash, or anything else. You steer the ship in the right direction or you get off the boat. And our CEOs absolutely know what goes on in day to day operations. They may not know the individuals involved, but they know the procedures, and systems in place. They get reports on everything, and I mean everything. It is impossible for them to do their job otherwise.
However this is an apples to oranges comparison. Companies are held accountable for their mistakes. By their stockholders, their business partners, their investors/lenders, and their customers.
The government is held accountable by no one. They aren't going out of business for making mistakes, all that ever happens is political mud thrown around and maybe some egg on their face.
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And our CEOs absolutely know what goes on in day to day operations. They may not know the individuals involved, but they know the procedures, and systems in place. They get reports on everything, and I mean everything. It is impossible for them to do their job otherwise.
The CEO knows if a guy on the ground in Topeka, Kansas is stealing luggage? No, he doesn't know until that guy gets caught, at which point he does an internal investigation to determine if his boss was directing it or he was doing it on his own or what... If it's a big deal he goes into the media and blames it on the guy on the ground but vows to get to the bottom of it claiming that they are taking it very seriously.... and then hopefully he takes the appropriate action.
I think this is what most people are asking of the President. Get to the bottom of it and take the appropriate action. I fully expect them to try to say it's very isolated in the media, that's what any CEO would do...
And in this instance, I would consider the head of the IRS, not the President, to be the equivalent of the CEO.
yebat' Putin
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I'm not sure that stealing luggage and targeted audits based on political affiliation is a fair comparison. Maybe if the airlines were intentionally excluding customers based on racial profiling. That would be a fair comparison and heads would roll. 
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Not wanting to sound rude or "know it all" like, but there isn't any way in the world that the CEO of a major corporation knows EVERYTHING that goes on daily.
Not even close to possible., can't happen, impossible..
They may know what's SUPPOSED to go on, but they can't possibly know if a pilot had a drink before take off. They can't possibly know if the baggage handler put your bag on the wrong flight.
If they knew those things and didn't stop it right there and then, they should get fired.. ON THE SPOT.
See, here's how it works, if you hate Obama as many folks do, then they think he should know everything so then things are his fault when they go wrong.
But those that understand, I mean really understand the complexity of a large corporation or government such as ours, even if they hate Obama understand that it's not possible for anyone, no matter what political party they belong to, could possibly know everything that goes on at any given moment.
All they can do is react when the problem hits the light of day. That's actually anyone can do. ANYONE.
Now we come to the shoulda coulda folks.. LOL that's almost too funny
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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How many major corporations have you worked for? I coded many reports that went all the way up the food chain. In a business like airlines they HAVE to know everything. It isn't so much that they know when Johnny employee went to lunch, they have to know all the analyticals of everything. They have to know how each department is functioning. They have to know where the problems are so they can make business decisions. They don't pull business decisions out of their butts, it's based on how the business is functioning. In something as complex as an airline, you have to know how everything affects everything else. They may not need to ultra detailed view of everything, but they sure need to know the high level view. All the projects we worked on had to be approved by upper levels of management because it affected the budget. How can they make those decisions without understanding the business.
You guys seem to have the impression that CEOs are just a figurehead, and they certainly aren't that.
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j/c
Unless the lower level people are intentionally withholding certain ongoings, knowledge of ANYTHING that happens in the company that potentially exposes the company in a negative way makes its way up the food chain. For the lower level people, it is standard "C.Y.A.", and for the people higher in the food chain, they may have a perspective that the lower folks don't. This is all doubly true in a publicly traded company where the mere appearance of a problem, and not even an actual one, can cause the loss of millions in stock value.... and that doesn't even begin to get into all of the accountability practices that have come about along the likes of Sarbanes-Oxley.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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How many major corporations have you worked for? I coded many reports that went all the way up the food chain. In a business like airlines they HAVE to know everything. It isn't so much that they know when Johnny employee went to lunch, they have to know all the analyticals of everything. They have to know how each department is functioning. They have to know where the problems are so they can make business decisions. They don't pull business decisions out of their butts, it's based on how the business is functioning. In something as complex as an airline, you have to know how everything affects everything else. They may not need to ultra detailed view of everything, but they sure need to know the high level view. All the projects we worked on had to be approved by upper levels of management because it affected the budget. How can they make those decisions without understanding the business.
You guys seem to have the impression that CEOs are just a figurehead, and they certainly aren't that.
Many of them to be honest and I was also a VP of a 50 million dollar division of a corporation,, that's Tiny compared to Tandy or any airline etc
My point is, NO MATTER HOW YOU SLICE IT, there is NO WAY a CEO knows everything that is going on..
Since you worked for an Airline, here's an example.
The Airline has a rule against pilots drinking so many hours prior to flying (that's an assumption on my part) They can spy on the pilot with cameras, they can have people follow the pilot, they can hire a PI to watch every move he/she makes prior to a flight (a completely out of line expense item unless there is reason to question the pilots honesty)
The pilot goes into a restroom, goes into a stall, pulls out a flask, has a couple of swigs of his favorite Bourbon and strolls out.
Are you saying the CEO knows about that?
It's a yes or no question. Is it likely that the CEO knows that? Hell, is it likely the pilots immediate boss knows it?
Honestly, unless someone from the flight crew or the Co-pilot rat him out, nobody is going to know..
I don't care how many reports you looked at, wrote or read.. THE CEO CAN"T KNOW EVERY MOVE EVERY EMPLOYEE MAKES EVERY MINUTE OF EVERY DAY.
IT'S ABSOLUTELY IDIOTIC TO ASSUME SO. IT'S EVEN MORE IDIOTIC TO ARGUE THE POINT.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I'm not sure that stealing luggage and targeted audits based on political affiliation is a fair comparison. Maybe if the airlines were intentionally excluding customers based on racial profiling. That would be a fair comparison and heads would roll.
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In a business like airlines they HAVE to know everything.
Pulled these from 2 different posts..... Eve, I have no idea how many non-profits the Cincy field office tags for auditing but for the sake of argument, let's say 500 a year.. it might be 10 times that for all I know... but go with me. If I want to target 10 conservative groups, how hard is it for me to just put their names on the list with the other 490 groups and send my list up the chain for review? Do you really expect that anybody at the top would look at that list and notice a pattern that there are 10 conservative groups and no liberal groups? or that the same conservative groups show up year after year? or whatever they are doing? Unless somebody complains, nobody is going to notice.
Just like in your airline example... if a few ticket agents and a line manager get together and decide to turn away black people telling them the airplane is full when it's not, nobody is going to notice because people get turned away all of the time. How long is it going to take before somebody picks up on the pattern that blacks are being turned away at a disproportionate percentage? So yes, heads would roll... as soon as somebody figured out what was going on.
yebat' Putin
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Eve, Maybe your years at delta were at the "gate" and not where they were making decisions!! Because the CEO of Delta may have gotten reports about overall operations, but there is NO WAY he would know about specific problems about his planes/people..etc all over the world. (* One difference in airline CEOs vs other is that they usually were in some aspect of aviation for years, they understand the inner workings *) Why would I know that, because I worked at the place that handed out airplane EDCT times (* figure that out *). And there were plentys of times when a CEO/head dispatcher or whoever would call to that facility, complaining of delays, and I would have to explain why their dispacthers messed up, pilots missed their departure times..etc. So don't give me your crap!!! They got bad info and had to go slink back into their offices. Anyone thinking that the Gov is not held responsible for their actions apparently needs a civics lesson! 
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Damon,
I know I have not posted in awhile but when did you can DCDAWGFAN become the voices of reason??? What type of alternative universe is this!!. Next, you will be telling me that the Browns thought there was little talent in a draft and did not make picks in the middle rounds.... oh wait, they did do that..LMAO!!
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Eve,
Maybe your years at delta were at the "gate" and not where they were making decisions!! Because the CEO of Delta may have gotten reports about overall operations, but there is NO WAY he would know about specific problems about his planes/people..etc all over the world. (* One difference in airline CEOs vs other is that they usually were in some aspect of aviation for years, they understand the inner workings *) Why would I know that, because I worked at the place that handed out airplane EDCT times (* figure that out *).
And there were plentys of times when a CEO/head dispatcher or whoever would call to that facility, complaining of delays, and I would have to explain why their dispacthers messed up, pilots missed their departure times..etc. So don't give me your crap!!! They got bad info and had to go slink back into their offices.
Anyone thinking that the Gov is not held responsible for their actions apparently needs a civics lesson!
No I did not work the gate. I was a developer. I worked with and programmed on all of their computer systems. I wrote the code that delivers flight data to their major systems. (among other things). I worked with various business units on a daily basis. As well as international business partners. Most of our meetings included management, including and up to directors and VPs depending on the importance of the meeting. The management of that company is extremely hands on. And not a bunch of figureheads like you seem to think it is.
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Now can we get an apoligy from the IRS for targeting minority and liberal groups in the 50's 60's 70's, 80's and 90's? Doubt it, only when the utra white and ultra conservative groups are targeted they scream foul that something is all of a sudden wrong with the IRS, and want to impeach the black president. Double standards as usual.
What is an "ultra white" person. I love how you imply that is all racially motivated, when you yourself clearly have some racism issues.
LOL. Bad wording but no racial issues here. I'm a middle class white man. It's a known fact that many administrations in the past have used the IRS. Now conservatives cry foul and shed tears and get traction and something is finally being done about it. I'm good with it. But it shows a double standard as with everything else in DC the last 5 years. You clearly have racial issues if you can't see it. Impeach away.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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Eve,
Well let me say that I always respected how Delta appeared to be run as a organization/business. And your right, you all gave your superiors ALOT of reports based on actual flight information on ALL of your aircraft all over the world. BUT most businesses nor organizations operate like that. The communication needed to operate in avaition is unlike any other industry. (* Now I can understand where your statments come from *)
And you also know that the layers of management in a airline would help contain certain problems unless they because a huge media issue!
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If you were the CEO of a company the size of the Tandy (which by the way has owned Radio Shack for something like 30+ years, odd you didn't know that. I bet if you were the CEO you would however) you would NOT be able to know everything that goes on. it's impossible to know everything. Whether it's been going for 1 day or 10 years. But what is important is that when you find out, you take immediate action.
Yes, I know the history of Radio Shack. For your info, the name Tandy is no longer used. They changed their name to Radio Shack and dropped Tandy altogether. That was my reference. They also previously owned Computer City (if I recall, CompUSA bought most of these locations), Incredible Universe (many of which were sold to Fry's Electronics) and Tech America (of which there were, I think, only 4 stores ever opened). The Tech America stores were essentially just larger versions of their Radio Shack stores.
I know, because I worked for the company. I worked on every single type of these stores for the company. What else would you like to know? They started out as a leather store (and there are still a number of those stores operating today).
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As for him firing the guy that may only be there for another month, geesh, what do you expect him to do, wait until they hire a full time guy and fire him? The person in charge (no matter a temporary assignment or not) is the one that needs to be called on the carpet.
Uh huh. Whatever. The guy had next to nothing to do with the scandal and Obama is trying to put on the face of the scandal that it's this guy who's responsible and that this should be the end of the matter. That this closes the entire affair. It doesn't. It only increases the number of questions that need answers.
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you have a real lack of knowledge about how big companies work and how complex they are. Even companies with tight controls can hire a rogue person that goes off and does stupid stuff.
You have no idea at all of how companies (and governments) work. I'm not sure you're understanding of how a sane world operates is all that vast either.
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I'm going to go way outside the box for a second here. And I'm not saying this happened. But, what if Tea Party bribed a couple of IRS folks to give conservative groups a rough time about the tax exempt status they are trying to obtain?
Yeah, that sounds plausible.
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Why would they do that has got to be your first question. The answer is simple, it all washes back up on Obama and will make him look bad.
Anyway, they know they are going to get the status they want, it would only slow it down a bit and further erode any existing faith in Obama.
Jay Carney, is that you?
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AGAIN, I AM NOT SAYING THEY DID THAT. I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF IT AT ALL. I'M MERELY SAYING IT COULD HAVE HAPPENED.
Just use the lowest diatribe you can conjure up and slap the 'racist' tag on the tea parties. Makes as much sense as this foolishness.
What sounds more plausible? That tea party folks bribed IRS agents to cause a scandal or that someone in this administration actually views the tea parties as their enemies and wants to curtail the free exercise of their constitutional freedoms?
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So what would end his responsibility? Should he resign? Should he turn himself in to the authorities for prosecution?
I don't know yet. Isn't that what the investigations are supposed to help us determine?
And, he does have responsibility. More than the victims of the corruption and scandal have. In that regard, maybe he should resign. Face criminal prosecution? If there is solid evidence that the orders came directly from him? Yes, I would say that prosecution would be in the normal course of events.
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And as soon as all of those questions are answered, then we can talk about punishment of those involved.
Again, isn't that what the investigations are supposed to determine? Who knew what and when did they know it?
Do you honestly believe that Obama learned about this scandal just like you and I did? Well, that's what he said happened and I don't believe that for a second. I didn't believe a word of it as the sounds emanated from his mouth.
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I really don't think we are that far apart in what we want to happen with this.. perhaps I'm just having a hard time communicating it.
Maybe not. Let's just wait until we know what REALLY happened. Remember that the Watergate incidents happened in June 1972. It wasn't until August 1974 that Nixon was forced to resign. Nixon hadn't resigned until after a number of the primary participants had been placed on trial for criminal activities, convicted and then sentenced to prison.
It's going to take a while (and maybe longer with this group of professional obfuscation artists) before we really know what was going on.
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Please,
Anyone who worked for Tandy need not give organizational advice to anyone! And BTW please name the criminal activity that took place at the IRS??? We would like to hear your made up fantasy charges. Along with that fantasy job as a CEO!!..LMAO.. Hey, you can be the new CEO of Tandy!!..
And since you feel this way, I know you think old Jimmy Haslam is a criminal also!!
You apparently don't have a clue. I worked for Delta Airlines for 15 years. 70,000+ employees. We went through quite a few CEOs. It doesn't matter if it's a scandal, a bankruptcy, a bad business deal, a plane crash, or anything else. You steer the ship in the right direction or you get off the boat. And our CEOs absolutely know what goes on in day to day operations. They may not know the individuals involved, but they know the procedures, and systems in place. They get reports on everything, and I mean everything. It is impossible for them to do their job otherwise.
However this is an apples to oranges comparison. Companies are held accountable for their mistakes. By their stockholders, their business partners, their investors/lenders, and their customers.
The government is held accountable by no one. They aren't going out of business for making mistakes, all that ever happens is political mud thrown around and maybe some egg on their face.
Well said Eve. Thanks.
+1 
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How many major corporations have you worked for? I coded many reports that went all the way up the food chain. In a business like airlines they HAVE to know everything. It isn't so much that they know when Johnny employee went to lunch, they have to know all the analyticals of everything. They have to know how each department is functioning. They have to know where the problems are so they can make business decisions. They don't pull business decisions out of their butts, it's based on how the business is functioning. In something as complex as an airline, you have to know how everything affects everything else. They may not need to ultra detailed view of everything, but they sure need to know the high level view. All the projects we worked on had to be approved by upper levels of management because it affected the budget. How can they make those decisions without understanding the business.
You guys seem to have the impression that CEOs are just a figurehead, and they certainly aren't that.
Eve, I'll go further than that. CEOs certainly get input from their various managers. He'll sit at the head of the Board of Directors and get input from his most trusted advisers. These advisers will get input from their various departments (marketing, sales, operations, distribution, etc.) managers, such as regional managers or directors, et al. These managers or directors will get input from their underlings and so on down the hierarchy.
Somewhere along the way, if we are being told the truth, someone chose not to give their boss the necessary information and kept that information from going to the top. The question becomes: Where along the line did the hierarchy break down? We'll then know where the blame lies, but it isn't the equivalent of a few cashiers at a location in Cincy that caused all this mess for the nation's CEO. It's higher than that. Perhaps much higher than that.
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I do think that Obama is in complete denial mode right now. He wants no part of an IRS scandal, because if anything can hurt a President, it's malfeasance at the IRS. Everyone fears the power of the IRS. No one wants to see the power of the IRS brought to bear on them, and everyone can understand how horrible a situation like that could be. Well, now we see the IRS using their power in a completely partisan and political manner, and that has a truly visceral effect on people.
How does the President handle a situation like this? "I can assure you that I certainly did not know anything about the (inspector general) report".
I wonder if we'll hear the same kind of response ...... "I didn't know anything about ...." with regards to Benghazi ..... and the AP seizure of phone records ..... and who knows what else might come to light now that the elections are over?
Our system is absolutely broken. I have no doubt that much of this stuff would have gone away if Romney had been elected, just because no administration wants to set the precedent of pursuing charges against their predecessor. They would have given this stuff lip service, to be sure, but no one would have been prosecuted for any crimes committed, because they don't want the same treatment when they leave office.
Everything is politics, and nothing is justice. I am absolutely revolted. One day we'll get a President who tries to make serious changes, and he probably won't make it through his 1st term.
I truly do worry about the future of this country.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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NRTU, but this comes from the WSJ. Higher-Ups Knew of IRS Case, Hearing Shows Obama Administration Officials Were Told in June 2012 of Probe Into Tea-Party Targeting By JOHN D. MCKINNON, SIOBHAN HUGHES and DAMIAN PALETTA The Internal Revenue Service's watchdog told top Treasury officials around June 2012 he was investigating allegations the tax agency had targeted conservative groups, for the first time indicating that Obama administration officials were aware of the explosive matter in the midst of the president's re-election campaign. The disclosure to the Treasury general counsel and the deputy secretary was a cursory one, according to J. Russell George, the Treasury inspector general for tax administration. He said he didn't reveal conclusions of the probe, which was in its early stages, and his disclosure came as part of a routine update to Treasury leaders. At the time, Republican lawmakers were complaining publicly about alleged IRS targeting of tea-party groups. The revelation nonetheless raised a fresh set of questions about who was aware of the problem within the Obama administration. It was one of several new details that emerged during a contentious four-hour House committee hearing Friday, held one week after an IRS official revealed at a legal conference that the agency had taken "absolutely inappropriate" actions in targeting conservative groups seeking tax-exempt status for often heavy-handed scrutiny. Among other disclosures: The conference revelation was itself stage-managed. Ousted IRS acting Commissioner Steven Miller testified he planned it with the director of the division in question. Republican lawmakers expressed amazement that IRS officials didn't tell them first. The hearing left numerous other fundamental questions unanswered, however, including who ordered the targeting and why it continued so long, pointing to a protracted investigation ahead. Mr. Miller conceded the agency likely disciplined the wrong employee in one effort to address the problem. Another was reassigned in the agency's Cincinnati office, but he couldn't provide the employee's name. Following the hearing, House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dave Camp (R., Mich.), who led the proceedings, expressed frustration and left open the possibility of issuing subpoenas to the IRS. "I think the most interesting revelation was the overall arrogance of the IRS and the lack of information from somebody who was in charge," Mr. Camp said. The Treasury Department, in a statement, confirmed officials were notified in June 2012 that an audit had begun. It added an underlined sentence, "Treasury strongly supports the independent oversight of its three Inspectors General, and it does not interfere in ongoing IG audits." Treasury also said Neal Wolin, the deputy secretary, didn't notify anyone outside of Treasury that the audit was under way and that Mr. Wolin and Treasury Secretary Jacob Lew "learned about [the inspector general's] findings when they were reported publicly last week." A White House aide said Friday that Treasury officials didn't share the information with White House officials. White House officials say they learned about the targeting of conservative groups from the report, and not before. President Barack Obama on Thursday said, "I can assure you that I certainly did not know anything about the IG report before the IG report had been leaked through the press." At the hearing, lawmakers of both parties expressed anger that IRS officials didn't reveal the problems to them in 2012. GOP lawmakers, after receiving complaints from tea-party groups about IRS scrutiny, asked then-commissioner Douglas Shulman about that in March 2012. He testified before the Ways and Means committee then that there was "absolutely no targeting," but he didn't correct his testimony after learning of the problems in May, according to congressional investigators. Mr. Shulman couldn't be reached for comment. Several other IRS officials, including Mr. Miller, didn't disclose the problems to lawmakers in letters and testimony. Mr. Miller Friday cited the continuing inspector-general investigation, even though he obtained an internal IRS investigation in May 2012 that came to some of the same conclusions as the inspector general report. "I was not going to go there because I did not have full possession of the facts, sir," Mr. Miller said at one point. In sometimes combative testimony, Mr. Miller also took exception to the idea that the IRS had engaged in targeting conservative groups, pointing out that groups representing other ideologies also were caught up in the extra review. The inspector general's report said that based on a statistical sample, "all cases with Tea Party, Patriots or 9/12 in their names were forwarded" for extra scrutiny. Many of the cases were delayed for years. Lawmakers of both parties questioned his response. "Throughout this time, the IRS leadership has demonstrated a total disregard for the oversight role of the Congress and this committee," said Rep. Sander Levin (D., Mich.), the committee's top Democrat. Mr. Shulman "had an obligation to return to this committee and set this record straight. So did Mr. Miller." "How was that not misleading this committee?" said Rep. Paul Ryan (R., Wis.) to Mr. Miller. "How can we not conclude that you misled this committee?" "I did not mislead the committee," Mr. Miller responded, adding later, "I answered the question truthfully." Messrs. Miller and George, the inspector general, said so far they had discovered no evidence that the targeting was politically motivated, and Mr. Miller described it as a bungled way to try and screen applicants. Later Friday, the woman who posed the question at a conference to IRS official Lois Lerner—the moment last week that first revealed the problems at the IRS—said Ms. Lerner planted the query. Washington lawyer Celia Roady said in a statement that Ms. Lerner provided her the question to ask. She added that Ms. Lerner "did not tell me, and I did not know, how she would answer the question." The IRS didn't respond to requests for comment from Ms. Lerner, who runs the exempt-organizations unit at the agency. Mr. Miller said the IRS, meanwhile, had "called to get on the calendar" to also brief the Ways and Means committee—a statement Republicans met with barely disguised disbelief. Mr. Camp and other GOP lawmakers suggested a pattern of efforts to use the IRS to attack conservatives. Those include a White House official's discussion in mid-2010, during a briefing with reporters, of the purported tax-filing status of Koch Industries. Its owners are big donors to conservative causes. The tax-filing status of businesses is often confidential. The White House said in 2010 that the official's statement "was not based on any review of tax filings." It promised not to use the example in the future. In an interview, Mr. Levin said the IG's report to Treasury officials constituted only "a brief reference," that he doubted was communicated up the chain.
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[quote
How does the President handle a situation like this? "I can assure you that I certainly did not know anything about the (inspector general) report".
If you listen to the question, the reporter asked numerous questions in one long, drawn out paragraph. And O answered "I can assure you, I didn't know anything about the Inspector Generals report until it was 'leaked' to the press."
He never said he didn't know about what was going on......he simply said he didn't know about the IG's report. So, he knew what was going on, just didn't know about the IG's report?
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Our entire government is so damned corrupt it's pathetic. It doesn't matter who's in charge. It makes me want to vomit.
I am reminded of the first Batman movie, where the Joker says "This town needs an enema". DC needs about 200,000 enemas .... or more.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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There is nothing special about DC. Goverment = corruption. World wide, nothing special here.
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Meaningless response..Mostly full of bull. except for the lesson on Tandy and Radio Shack.. thanks for that..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Meaningless response..Mostly full of bull. except for the lesson on Tandy and Radio Shack.. thanks for that..
That's informative and impactful.
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Our entire government is so damned corrupt it's pathetic. It doesn't matter who's in charge. It makes me want to vomit.
I am reminded of the first Batman movie, where the Joker says "This town needs an enema". DC needs about 200,000 enemas .... or more.
You will never EVER get an argument out of me on that.
These people couldn't find a reasonable solution to anything if they were sitting on it.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Just adding more to the story. Rep. Claire McCaskill (D-MO) calls for firing of all involved in IRS targeting scandalMay 17, 2013 4:11 PM WASHINGTON (KMOX) – Sen. Claire McCaskill, D-MO, issued a video statement Friday in response to reports that the Internal Revenue Service unfairly targeted conservative nonprofit groups. “I’m mad. It is un-American, it is wrong, and we have to make sure that this gets fixed,” Missouri’s senior senator said. “There’s a reason Lady Justice wears a blindfold in America. That is because in America, we don’t apply the law based on who you are, who you know, or what you believe. We apply the law equally.” McCaskill went on to say that the targeting of one group based on political beliefs “infuriates” her. “We should not only fire the head of the IRS, which has occurred, but we’ve got to go down the line and find every single person who had anything to do with this and make sure that they are removed from the IRS and the word goes out that this is unacceptable,” she said. “It is un-American, it is wrong, and it cannot occur again.” McCaskill concluded by saying many groups claim to be charities while doing political work and that it is a problem which needs to be fixed “but not in a way that highlights one belief over another.”
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Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... IRS apologizes for targeting
conservative groups
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