Quote: We're not in a court of law, and in this case, I think the burden of proof lies with Gordon. As Phil said, his biggest knock was not being on the field due to substance abuse......and now he's again not on the field due to substance abuse. Sometimes the picture is as clear as it looks.
Been playing catchup reading this thread ... what a lot of nonsense.
You just said because he's an NFL player with prior - he's guilty till proven otherwise. What an agenda driven piece on BS.
Alright....just what agenda are you talking about, newb? I said the onus of proof is on him. The NFL can't give details due to their substance abuse policy, so the only way we can get the proof is from Gordon himself. Until he does that, it looks like a duck. That's not an agenda, it's the truth. I made it clear that I hope he turns out to be a productive player for us.
this is a stupid question but.... why cant the player just show the doctor Prescription and end it all?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
Quote: And don't get mad but scolding me for belittling by putting a College kid statement which btw was not refuted n I was talking directly to him but did not insult.
I wouldn't quite call it an insult, but it bordered on one, given that it's pretty obvious to anyone that I'm not a college kid. It certainly was a remark of condescension. But I think the debate got away from you. We all resort to that sort of thing every now and again.
I did find it a tad amusing that you were sort of patting me on the head and telling me that it's OK to be wrong in a thread you've made little to any logical sense regarding your argument.
Everything else in your post is, once again, general platitudes that you're applying to Josh Gordon, hoping that he's going through this maturity and new stage in his life despite no evidence to suggest it.
I don't think anyone doesn't want this kid to succeed, however the pattern is ridiculously obvious. He has thrown opportunity after opportunity away. Opportunities most of us on this board would be ecstatic to have.
Ask yourself this. If you owned a business and knew the persons background was the same as Gordon's would you hire him to a highly paid position? Even if he was the absolute best at what he did? No way I would.
He has been given chance after chance and just hasn't seemed to get it.. That is all the "haters" are saying. I don't hate the guy - I think he has a ton of talent - but the red flags are a flyin IMO.
After years of MoMass, Robiskie, Stuckey, Edwards, Antonio Bryant, and so on.. Yes. I take Gordon every day of the week until he quits the game. He gets a year suspension? I keep him. I haven't heard any reports of his on the field or locker room habits being a problem. The guy is very fast, very tall, and can catch the ball. I want him here for as long as possible.
I genuinely think he is our most valuable asset on the team right now. Also my favorite player... I love the Mad Bomber offense
It's funny that it's the side who has been defending Gordon who are the ones throwing the insults around. Guess you gotta do what you gotta do when your case is weak.
LMAO what case? If he is guilty of smoking weed again he deserves to get bashed and I will be bashing him just like you are. If the kid just made a mistake and took cough syrup or a pain pill for his strep throat then it was a mistake on his part and he has maned up and admitted he made a mistake and he should not be nailed to a cross for it. So what case would I be trying to build? I'm not saying he is guilty or innocent. I'm saying don't rush to judgement one way or the other bud.
Who the heck is nailing him to the cross? Sheesh..........you guys act like discussing the merits of what has happened means we want to "nail him the cross." That's ridiculous. Not one person has said to cut him. No one said we don't want a loser like that on our team. It sure isn't like the thread about Haslam. LOL
Look, if you wanna turn a blind eye to his recent past, so be it.........but please stop acting like we are wrong to bring up his very shady past and to be concerned on whether or not this guy is reliable or not.
These are facts, bro:
--Failed a drug test at Baylor. --Failed another and kicked off the team. --Went to Utah and failed another. --Dismissed from the team. --Lied about his dismissal from Utah. --Within a year's time, he has been suspended by the NFL.
That is a lot of problems in a couple of years. I am NOT saying to cut him. I am saying that his behavior is a real concern and it's something the Browns have to think about.
As to opinion: I don't believe him for a second. I know how the collegiate game works and the guy almost certainly didn't have just two missteps. He more than likely received several warnings. He also didn't learn from his mistakes and kept partying. He went to Utah and freaking did it again. Banner's comments earlier this year about Gordon were revealing when you consider his past and his recent suspension. I also know the Purple Dank thing is huge in Texas. Go check out the lyrics that Gordon put on his Face book page. That should tell you something about where his mind is at. I think the kid has a lot of thug in him. Yeah, that is opinion and as sound as this Vacation Bible School thought that he simply took cough medicine that you guys are falling for.
Opinions aside, the facts tell any logical person that there is a legitimate concern w/this kid. I'm sorry if that offends you, but not that sorry.
I never denied your Ancient History of Facts...yep 2 years ago as I tried to point out in my Logic - IS A LONG TIME AGO.
But that history was involved in the proposed "ASSUMPTION" I put out there regarding him coming into the NFL in the Substance Abuse program. I never ignored your stated facts. I accepted them.
You however feel that it is a fact that once a Pot Smoker n failed drug test kid...always a Pot Smoker n failed drug test kid. Nope that is pure speculation cause it is a new set of rules. New set of reprisals for his actions. Thats all. I take the logic that if he has a brain being tested maybe up to 10 times a month and the known fact Marijuana his drug of choice in the past is in the system upto 30 days. I assume he isn't a complete MORON. Evidently you do.
And after all that I said I do not feel I am 100% right. That it can be just the way you state it is.
Again...J'accuse! lol one of us is a little huffy. I won't even say who it is. Its all out there for all to see.
JMHO n nothing more.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
I'm hoping Josh Gordon is smart enough to know he stands at a cross road, as far as his NFL career is involved.
Other NFL players have been faced with drug issues and stood at a cross road...and have had a long productive NFL careers.
Here is a bit from Randy Moss' bio...
In April 1996, Randy Moss smoked a joint just prior to turning himself into jail. He was scheduled to finish the remainder of his 30 day sentence for misdemeanor battery while in high school. During his first week in jail, Moss was given a drug test that came back positive. He was placed in solitary confinement for a week and had 60 days attached to his 27 day sentence. Bobby Bowden revoked his scholarship and Moss was dismissed from Florida State University for the failed drug test.[6]
Moss tested positive in 2001 for marijuana under the NFL's substance abuse program and was subject to additional random drug screening for two years.[69] A first time violation of the NFL's drug policy can result in up to 10 tests per month. Moss has not failed an NFL drug test since, and was rotated out of the program after two years.[73]
In August 2005, during an interview with Bryant Gumbel, Moss admitted that he has smoked marijuana during his NFL career "every blue moon." When asked whether he still used marijuana currently, Moss replied "I might. I might have fun. And, you know, hopefully ... I won't get into any trouble by the NFL by saying that, you know. I have had fun throughout my years and, you know, predominantly in the offseason." The interview drew criticism from the league office, and his agent tried to spin it that his words were taken out of context. In response, Moss said "That was really me talking in the past tense of way back in the beginning of my career and my childhood – especially in high school and college."[73]
Even if he doesn't get any more substance policy violation suspensions or any other suspensions and continues to play, my guess is he'll bolt the first time his contract comes up. I have this "Braylon Edwards" kind of feel about his attitude and especially his attitude towards Cleveland.
Scrolled through his Twitter feed for the month he claimed he was prescribed codeine for his sore throat.
He talks about drinking tequila, having a party at his house with Young Jeezy (who apparently put a lot of holes in his walls), going to get a tattoo sleeve, partying in L.A., partying in Cleveland, partying in Houston, partying in South Beach, working out, going to autograph shows, watching sports, watching TV, watching movies...
...kid keeps a pretty detailed feed going. You'd think he might have mentioned coming down with strep throat.
Hey Tony: What did I miss? When was Josh Gordon's first NFL suspension? I don't remember it occurring during last season and I also believe that College transgressions don't apply when you coming to the NFL. So how do we get to two failed drug tests? Thank you for the information.
-- Robert, Parma, OH
Hey Robert: I had heard that Gordon failed a drug test as a Browns rookie last year, but couldn’t verify it. In retrospect, however, the information looks right on. One failed drug test automatically puts a player in Stage One of the NFL substance abuse program but does not result in a suspension. When this happens, it is kept confidential and not announced. Per the NFL substance abuse policy, a player receives a suspension only if he violates the program while already enrolled in Stage One. Thus, it can be deduced that Gordon was in Stage One when he tested positive recently (for codeine, according to Gordon’s statement). Also per the policy, a suspension – usually for four games – can be reduced when a player in Stage One tests positive for a drug or banned substance other than the one that qualified him for Stage One. Once again, we can deduce that Gordon received only a two-game suspension because he tested positive for codeine after entering Stage One for testing positive for something else (possibly marijuana).
See, he doesn't understand that once you get out of college, you get older, and as you get older, you mature. Josh Gordon has therefore matured and doesn't do drugs anymore.
Also, Josh Gordon makes a lot of money now. Once you start to earn a lot of money, you're not so inclined to indulge in the vices you used to.
Also, he and Greg Little look like morons taking video of themselves onstage with LeBron & Co. while drunk.
Gordon just lost two games and four checks for failing yet another drug test. Maybe posting videos of you and your teammate drunk while riding the coattails of someone else's victory party isn't the best PR move.
I'll PM you some of the stuff he is tweeting. I'd like to put it on the board, but it wouldn't last 2 minutes. LOL
As far as the huffy part---------I made a post on my feelings about the subject. I did not mention one single poster. Then, Daman, Pit, GM, and you come on here and start criticizing POSTERS. You should know me well enough by now.......I am not going to just sit here and take abuse.
I really could care less if you guys believe Gordon. That's fine. But, you can stop w/the ASS.... comments, the hoping people will fail comments, etc any time now.
Thought this belongs here. It's from the La Canafora article:
Quote: Gordon clearly has talent and showed flashes as a rookie after the Browns surprised many by taking him in the second round of the 2011 supplemental draft, but there were always serious off-field concerns, as manifested with this suspension. Blaming the positive test on medicine he took for strep throat raised some eyebrows inside and outside the organization, and Gordon will have to avoid any such missteps in the future to avoid concerns he may have a bigger problem in regards to Purple Drank.
His failed drug test came before this group took over, and the Browns are trying to give Gordon as much support as they can, monitoring him and hoping he associates with the right kind of people with NFL vacation now in full swing.
Yeah, I went through some of the guy's social media stuff tonight, and maybe it's a knee-jerk reaction but I've officially shifted from 'I think we've got a steal' to 'we might have a bust'.
I mean, I've never been under the illusion that these guys are choir boys or anything ... but Jesus, use some common sense.
The guy's got a picture up of himself sitting in his apartment holding a hookah with an prescription pill bottle wrapped in plastic on his coffeetable.
I mean, who knows, maybe it's flavored tobacco and antibiotics ... but you think you might pull that one down after getting suspended for failing a drug test (especially seeing how it was taken right around when you claimed you failed your drug test due to strep throat medication).
Come on with the Holy Poster stuff. Simply put it apparently seems if anyone debates or strongly discusses their point of view with a poster who generically agrees with your opinion. Right away its bullying them. But when you do the same probably stronger to a degree than most - it Correct n Just...lol Come on Man!
Hey the kid got a lot of $$$$ his choices are out there to make. He will have fun I'm sure he's early 20's n single??? We can only hope that he loves that $$$ n will not jeopardize the cash cow he possesses. Till he washes out I will give him the benefit of the doubt. If n When he does...he then will become scum to me...not before.
JMHO - its the way I roll
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Quote: Come on with the Holy Poster stuff. Simply put it apparently seems if anyone debates or strongly discusses their point of view with a poster who generically agrees with your opinion. Right away its bullying them.
It wasn't debating or discussing strongly.
You basically said 'Are you a naive young kid? You have to be, no one else would make the argument you did. Don't worry, it's OK to be wrong, someday you'll grow up and learn what maturity really means'.
It was condescending and belittling. I wouldn't call it bullying, and I didn't take all that much offense.
But if you want to keep bringing it up ... I really don't need to be told what maturity is by a guy who left these boards in a huff because someone else started a What I Saw thread.
I'll leave it at that.
As for Gordon, if you want to believe in him until he flops, go for it. There's nothing wrong with that. Being a Browns fan isn't the most fun recreation.
But it is extremely hard to believe him.
The kid comes from Houston, has a past in the drug culture, is into the hip-hop culture, hangs out with rappers, etc.
Now let me be clear - I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that per say. But those things specifically, especially him being from Houston, makes it almost impossible to believe that he would A) unknowingly receive codeine medicine or B) not know it was a banned substance.
Not saying those things mean that he likes purple drank ... but the idea that he had no idea what it was, no idea that the stuff was in his cough syrup, etc. is really hard to swallow.
Look at the photo he posted for the world to see ... look at the video he just posted drunk out in the club with Greg Little and a bunch of guys who make more from gum ads then they do all year ... I mean, I get being young and going out and having fun.
But don't broadcast it for the world to see, especially if you just got suspended for failing a drug test.
Just a few comments made in this thread alone Vers.
What a clown cough syrup my ass Gordon will screw us over I guess he is truly a junkie
You yourself accuse the kid of drinking Purple Dank, then you make this comment "I knew there would be a bunch of people defending the guy and trashing people who weren't buying his BS."
What I'm not buying is the BS your spreading bro. I was posting around here that you have been drinking Purple Dank before you posted I would deserve to be bashed wouldn't I ?
Quote: and for that reason I WON'T GET OFF HIS BACK GM ..... hes got way to much riding on this to just be taking scripts w/o running it through the Browns .. I mean WTF ... U don't think the browns have talked to ALL THERE PLAYERS about this exact thing ... if not .. we need to start over ... *L*
Well then bro maybe the NFL does need to start over I mean when Rookies are welcomed into the NFL with ALL teams they do receive a "Life player engagement manual" and it is discussed with them by each team. Last years manual for 2012 has 10 modules to it Starting with Total Health and wellness, Transitions, Managing relationships, unhealthy relationships, leadership and workplace conduct, decision making and traffic education, substance abuse, stress management/time management, social media, and money management. In that exact order. I can show it to you as it's sitting right in front of me. The section on substance is a whopping 9 pages long and spends most of it's mike explaining how pot, and booze effect your skills of the field, shortness of breath, slowed reaction time if your hungover, slow tracking of the ball, worse balance, less alertness, body temperature dysregulation, loss of electrolytes, dehydration, being winded, effects on your VO2 Max, maximum excercise intensity is lowered. It's not very detailed at all Diam, and not that much time is spent on it.
Quote: We're not in a court of law, and in this case, I think the burden of proof lies with Gordon. As Phil said, his biggest knock was not being on the field due to substance abuse......and now he's again not on the field due to substance abuse. Sometimes the picture is as clear as it looks.
Been playing catchup reading this thread ... what a lot of nonsense.
You just said because he's an NFL player with prior - he's guilty till proven otherwise. What an agenda driven piece on BS.
Alright....just what agenda are you talking about, newb? I said the onus of proof is on him. The NFL can't give details due to their substance abuse policy, so the only way we can get the proof is from Gordon himself. Until he does that, it looks like a duck. That's not an agenda, it's the truth. I made it clear that I hope he turns out to be a productive player for us.
this is a stupid question but.... why cant the player just show the doctor Prescription and end it all?
Don't know what planet or country you live in or on - but here, the policy is innocent until proven guilty. The burden of proof is NOT on Gordon ! Unless you just want to speculate, make up stuff and be judge and jury ... oh my mistake you already did that!
Newb ? Based on what ? What you can see on your screen ? Yeah - no wonder you struggle with information and what it means.
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
Quote: You basically said 'Are you a naive young kid? You have to be, no one else would make the argument you did. Don't worry, it's OK to be wrong, someday you'll grow up and learn what maturity really means'.
Thanks for writing my posts for me...take about 4 words of mine and add 30 of yours Class real class...or should I say Maturity...lol
I left in a huff cause somebody else made a What I saw Thread??? Glad you remember - I don't thought it was an argument with a poster n got kicked off the board. But then I guess you got poster envy so you dig through my garbage. Let me guess if I stick around you will post a What I saw thread just to annoy me???
Wouldn't put it past you. Do we got ignore crap on this board...I will advise you to put me on it...cause I am putting you on it cause you just ain't worth the spittle. Nice reading you
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Quote: I really could care less if you guys believe Gordon. That's fine. But, you can stop w/the ASS.... comments, the hoping people will fail comments, etc any time now.
Now we are at the crossroads........
The question now becomes, how much longer will you feel some deep seeded need to continue harping about it?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Quote: You basically said 'Are you a naive young kid? You have to be, no one else would make the argument you did. Don't worry, it's OK to be wrong, someday you'll grow up and learn what maturity really means'.
Thanks for writing my posts for me...take about 4 words of mine and add 30 of yours Class real class...or should I say Maturity...lol
The above was my synopsis of what you wrote, which was:
Quote: Can I just assume you are a college kid.
Got news for you People do mature. Most of the maturing I have seen in life usually comes with parenthood. College kids do dumb things...yeah I know how absurd I missed the boat on that one
JMHO Don't get insulted. If you are a college kid...more than likely you will mature greatly over the 5 years following college n out in the real world. No biggy. If you are not I then just cannot see how you took this to the nth that you did. Its ok everybody is wrong every now n then...lol
Care to tell me where you feel my synopsis greatly differs from your words?
Quote: You basically said 'Are you a naive young kid? You have to be, no one else would make the argument you did. Don't worry, it's OK to be wrong, someday you'll grow up and learn what maturity really means'.
Thanks for writing my posts for me...take about 4 words of mine and add 30 of yours Class real class...or should I say Maturity...lol
The above was my synopsis of what you wrote, which was:
Quote: Can I just assume you are a college kid.
Got news for you People do mature. Most of the maturing I have seen in life usually comes with parenthood. College kids do dumb things...yeah I know how absurd I missed the boat on that one
JMHO Don't get insulted. If you are a college kid...more than likely you will mature greatly over the 5 years following college n out in the real world. No biggy. If you are not I then just cannot see how you took this to the nth that you did. Its ok everybody is wrong every now n then...lol
Care to tell me where you feel my synopsis greatly differs from your words?
Yeah - you're synopsis is total junk ... and agenda driven ! Agenda - to pick a fight with someone (why I don't know.).
Obviously despite the in your face nature of the little cartoon lying down laughing at the end of the very first line: Can I just assume you are a college kid. .... Eotab is not assuming your a college kid - but if you can't see that then I don't know that it matters how well I or anyone else explains it to you. You see what you want to see. . .
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
Quote: Oh ... and using someone's "Newb" status to refute their position is .... ahhhhh .... not a very good rebuttal. But it sure is easy huh ?!
Yeah. Just like calling someone's post an "agenda driven piece of BS" when you can't even identify an agenda.
What ? You realize that hating and beating on people just for the sake of it is an agenda right? Thats what I said the dude is/was doing.
By "the dude", I'll assume you meant me because that's the post you responded to and called "agenda driven BS". Saying the onus of proof is on Gordon isn't hating or beating on him, as he's the only one who can supply the proof. I've never used the term newb before, and I have no problem with new posters voicing their opinions.
You actually did what you're accusing me of.....hating on something with no proof.....and I wan't nearly as nasty.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
not in the least bro. Bashing you for jumping to conclusions sure you bet ya 100 percent
one of us is a little huffy. I won't even say who it is. Its all out there for all to see.
