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I simply wonder why you feel if we don't "hear about Weeden putting in the extra time", that it isn't happening?
There are a lot of things we don't hear about that happens. I'm not saying it does but just because it isn't being broadcast doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Just like I don't see a press conference saying it happened, I don't see a press conference saying it didn't.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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One thing, least there no pics/vids of Weeden with a hooka pipe laying in his lap and a pill bottle on table, lol. But applying your logic, there is nothing to say that hasn't happened though lol 
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1. The new coaching staff kept an open mind about Weeden's work ethic. The reviews they heard were mixed. The results have been positive, as they have been pleased with how Weeden has worked to learn the new system. Unless something changes, they don't see his work ethic in the film and class rooms as an issue. 2. But in their theme of battling entitlement, they plan to keep pushing Weeden to do more homework. Jason Campbell and Brian Hoyer are two veteran quarterbacks who know about the off-field work needed to remain in the league. While Weeden has worked exclusively with the starters, the subtle message is Campbell or even Hoyer could step in if needed. 3. Turner will continue to be demanding and is the main voice of the coaching staff to Weeden every day, with head coach Rob Chudzinski spending some time with him. Chudzinski doesn't want Weeden hearing advice from too many places, which is why the Browns don't have a quarterbacks coach. Turner can handle that and the coordinator spot. 4. Studying the Oklahoma State tapes, it's no surprise there are more shotgun plays to keep Weeden comfortable. They want to free him up to see the field and throw. He struggled with the rigidity of the under-center, progression system of the West Coast offense. 5. The idea is clarity. One coach speaking to Weeden. A system that accents his strengths. They want to make demands on him, but not be overwhelming. They don't know if Weeden is the QB of the next few years, but they are determined to find out with an offense suited to him. Turner and Chudzinski have survived in the NFL by being flexible, not married to one offense. http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2013/06/terry_plutos_talkin_about_the_10.html
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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So since you don't see visual evidence, it couldn't have happened? Well all-righty then! 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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The sports science is quite clear about the differences between instinctive play and thinking play. Asking Weeden to completely change his play style had zero chance to succeed. He was an asinine selection to run the wco, on par with putting someone like DA in there. If Weeden can play at an nfl level this offense will be the perfect match for his strengths. And in 5-8 years he can retire and start his golf career. 
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Quote:
From the article:
"Impact on the team: The Browns will be very competitive in the AFC North, with Weeden, Richardson and Gordon emerging as a formidable offensive trio. It will not be enough to make a playoff push, but a .500 season is a realistic possibility in 2013."
I agree: 8 & 8
They could go near 500 over the last 13 games and be 6-10, after they start out 0-3
Dolphins, Baltimore and Minnesota.
The Dolphins offense, and team shows just as much promise as the Browns.
The Ravens with Flaco and Rice, have the superior offense, and with additions like Dumervil, won't show much letdown on defense.
The Vikings 3 first round draft picks will show a team with as much hope for improvement as the Browns offense will provide.
So I look for the Browns to start 0-3, and IF they start 0-3 then 8-8 is out of the question.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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To a long extent, you're dead on and 100% right. But on the other hand, you're wrong. How many times has Weeden actually thrown a "catchable" ball that was dropped? How could ANY qb excel in Pat Shurmur's offensive scheme, or should I say, lack thereof? His WCO is and was crap, no other way of putting it.
It's two-way with a rookie QB. He needs the help to improve but the things (the fundamentals) - Weeden also showed inability to improve so that is why I agree with you in that aspect. A lot of people were to blame, but Weeden should get most of it.
lastly, he just might not be smart enough to understand how a pro offense works. in college he had a good receiver who bailed him out game after game. it where he began to lock on to one wr. and one only.
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Quote:
Quote:
From the article:
"Impact on the team: The Browns will be very competitive in the AFC North, with Weeden, Richardson and Gordon emerging as a formidable offensive trio. It will not be enough to make a playoff push, but a .500 season is a realistic possibility in 2013."
I agree: 8 & 8
They could go near 500 over the last 13 games and be 6-10, after they start out 0-3
Dolphins, Baltimore and Minnesota.
The Dolphins offense, and team shows just as much promise as the Browns.
The Ravens with Flaco and Rice, have the superior offense, and with additions like Dumervil, won't show much letdown on defense.
The Vikings 3 first round draft picks will show a team with as much hope for improvement as the Browns offense will provide.
So I look for the Browns to start 0-3, and IF they start 0-3 then 8-8 is out of the question.
I can agree with this assessment. Before the Dumervil signing, I would say there was hope for winning the first Ravens matchup. Now it's going to be a little more difficult. That Broncos game last year was painful to watch. The key to winning the Miami game is Richardson's health and his ability to carry the game. The defenses of both Miami and Minni don't seem threatening, so even with Gordon out, there's hope that the passing game clicks and Weeden develops some ability to get rid of the ball quickly, read defenses, and manage an offense taylored to his skill set.
It's going to be an interesting season considering we didn't change anything on offense regarding player personnel. This will be a direct comparison of systems/coaching from 2012. I'm looking forward to the assessment.
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I love it when players toss their old coach under the bus. Such high character our "strong armed, young, and accurate" QB has.
Shurmur threw Weeden under the bus a few times last year.. he owed him one.
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If you get tired of blindly praising everything Banner and cursing everything Holmgren, I will be more than happy to talk football with you
LOL............I was talking football. It was you who started w/the insults. Not one of you has addressed why the two geniuses drafted Weeden when it was evident that he was not meant for this system. No one has addressed my point about how we heard this same cry of the system curing all when Colt was here and The Big Show and Shurmer were the new guys.
You guys don't address those points, but instead turn to mockery of the poster you don't agree with. Talking football? Pfffftttttt
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Quote:
I simply wonder why you feel if we don't "hear about Weeden putting in the extra time", that it isn't happening?
There are a lot of things we don't hear about that happens. I'm not saying it does but just because it isn't being broadcast doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Just like I don't see a press conference saying it happened, I don't see a press conference saying it didn't.
JMHO
The local media is all over Weeden's jock. They would report it, just as they reported it when Colt did it.
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btw...Pluto reported it. He's pretty news worthy.
In defense of Vers claim. Weeden and several other Browns were totally disappointed in the offense we were running. So much so that they did not believe in the offense when you have multiple players not believing it sucks. At some point Weeden did go through the "MOTIONS" and stopped working hard...its called losing the team. Man our leadership sucked.
But Weeden n all others have been revived by the prospects of this offense and of course believe in Norv Turner. Leadership starts from the top and filters its way down.
Point blank - they are so into it and all seem to be studying hard.
JMHO based on what I have read.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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tab, w/all due respect...........I don't think any of those guys are even in town. Weeden is golfing and Gordon/Little were partying in Miami. I am actually starting to worry about the character of many of our players.
It's not a must that they have good character. There have been plenty of great teams filled w/guys who partied and ran around. However, it is a tricky situation. Some teams [w/strong player leadership] can still focus on what needs to be done. Other teams tend to let the "good times" get in the way of doing what you need to do to win.
Our record has been poor. And I really don't see the veteran leadership that will keep these guys straight.
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I am actually starting to worry about the character of many of our players.
I don't know the daily ins n outs of our players. Quite frankly I put myself in Chud's mindset. He saw all worked very hard in the off season - this has been reported. All showed up to the OTA mandatory n volunteer. Many were in Berea when not called for. So after the last camp. He told all players to go home...unwind relax for a couple of weeks cause when they come back its going to be WORK WORK WORK!!! This I have not read anywhere but it is a Natural expectation. Also what you state you know is in print...ok that covers 1% of their time off. What we don't know is what is happening in that 99% of not reported time.
JMHO - just like the good needs to be PROVEN before believing so does some of the bad. off to golf...see you all later 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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tab, w/all due respect...........I don't think any of those guys are even in town. Weeden is golfing and Gordon/Little were partying in Miami. I am actually starting to worry about the character of many of our players.
vers.,..that Weeden and his questionable character...playing golf...
YEA...playing golf in the Verplank Foundation Invitational Golf Tournament...
.....Welcome to the home of the Scott and Kim Verplank Foundation. The goal of the Foundation is to provide young people challenged with Type 1 Diabetes (T1D) the financial ability to pursue a college education.
The physical and emotional trials of being a child with T1D are well documented; however one of the less publicized effects of T1D is the strain on the families. Parents are faced with concerns over the health of their child compounded by the question of how to pay for the daily care and supplies, much less the idea of paying for their college tuition.
Scott Verplank knows the health challenges first hand, having been diagnosed at the age of nine when his mother found him lapsed in a diabetic coma. With his family’s incredible support, as well as his drive and commitment, he has been extremely successful on the PGA TOUR. He has also been able to lead a very fulfilling life at home, as a husband and father.
Scott and his wife Kim are committed to helping children with T1D and their families achieve their dreams of going to college by providing scholarships to T1D students committed to managing their diabetes through proper administration of their medication, eating a healthy diet, and staying physically active.
The Foundation is funded through personal resources of the Verplank Family and other donations. In addition, the Verplanks host an annual celebrity golf tournament, the Verplank Foundation Invitational, to raise additional dollars to fund scholarships.
We sincerely hope you will join us in supporting the scholarship recipients reaching for their dreams!
http://verplankfoundation.com/index.php
Last edited by mac; 07/01/13 08:18 AM.
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Few rookie QBs understand what it takes to be a successful NFL QB. Most learn it between their first and 2nd year. A lot of these kids do not understand how to study film and break it down. I liked the fact that Weeden did spend time with Weinke working exclusively on his footwork before the OTA's and mini camps. That will pay off in the long term.
I also loved the fact that during the first mini camps,it was all about how much better Campbell was than Weeden and by the time they got to the last week it was that Weeden was solidifying himself as the starter over Campbell.
I also like that Norv is thee guy in Weeden's ear. I am excited to see if Weeden becomes the guy Heckert believed him to be or is he another failed experiment.
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Vers, as has been mentioned, Weeden did work with Weinkie in the off season on his fundamentals and it was also reported that the coaching staff seems very happy with how hard Weeden is working.
I don't mind when you criticize players and I do agree that Weeden will need to improve a great deal with his game. That the change in schemes on O will not solve many of the things we saw in Weedens game last year.
But from the reports, it seems Weeden is satisfying the coaching staff with his work ethic so in this case I think you're reaching pretty far in your conclusion in this instance.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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FWIW, per roto headline: http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/0/football-headlines?r=1After studying each of Brandon Weeden's rookie-year throws, ESPN's Ron Jaworski came away "impressed" and believes Weeden "will be a rock-solid NFL starter in Norv Turner's offense."
Weeden's pocket presence was a question mark coming out of Oklahoma State, but Jaws observed on tape that, "For a rookie, Weeden showed uncommon poise and calm in the pocket" with "consistently solid" mechanics. Jaworski was also impressed with Weeden's "ability to sit on his back foot and drive the ball with velocity." Added Jaws, "There's no question in my mind that his throwing skill set and Turner's quarterback-friendly system will mesh effectively." Weeden has deep-sleeper QB2 appeal under QB gurus Turner and Rob Chudzinski.
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I hope that Jaws is right, and not just being a media analyst.
If he is right, we go far this year.. perhaps even contend for a Wild Card spot.
If he isn't, then we're a Top 10 pick.
I don't see any middle ground.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
I don't see any middle ground.
I said this myself about Weeden well before we picked him when I was pimping him. He's boom or bust after 1-2 years in the league.
No matter how Weeden turns out, it was worth a shot with a late 1st that most on here would have wasted on an OL that was way overrated, can only play one position (the least important RG) and played like total crap when he hit the field (DeCastro).
We had absolutely no QB on the roster with any upside whatsoever. Picking a 50/50 gamble with both high ceiling and low floor is always a good, because necessary bet in that kind of situation, ask the Ravens who did the same with the Flacco pick. They wre so unsure of him that they didn't want to re-sign him until late last season. No matter what all the armchair GMs say. Those same guys would have trotted out McCoy and Wallace another time, for a 100% fail season with no hope at all...you know, the QBs that produced almost a TD less per game on Offense than the oh so "terrible" rookie Weeden. As inconsistent and frustrating as Weeden was, he was an upgrade to those guys...and unlike them, he has plenty of upside left
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I hope that Jaws is right, and not just being a media analyst.
If he is right, we go far this year.. perhaps even contend for a Wild Card spot.
If he isn't, then we're a Top 10 pick.
I don't see any middle ground.
I could see some middle ground depending on how other teams in the division pan out....or what you consider contending for a wildcard. If 10-11 wins gets you a wildcard, then there is a middle. If 9 gets you there, then there isn't since 8 wins would be considered in the hunt.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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in college he had a good receiver who bailed him out game after game. it where he began to lock on to one wr. and one only.
I find this quote ridiculous, I watched a bunch of clips of him and said reciever. More than not, the ball was right on the money. I actually remember watching the clips of the receiver and asking myself who the QB was. There wasn't any "bailing out", that is a crock.
Last edited by E.Ryze19; 07/01/13 07:06 PM.
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j/c: A few comments: --I was not including Weeden when I mentioned character. Sheesh. --Let's not get crazy [tab, Pit] w/the statements about how hard Weeden is working this year. There has been one comment from Pluto. Here it is: Quote:
Brandon Weeden had a solid minicamp. The coaches are pleased with his work ethic and how he is learning the new offense. The big question is how he'll handle defensive pressure, something that can't be answered until the tackling starts. He has worked exclusively with the first team and is being given a shot to prove he is the starter.
Quit saying "all the reports" and acting like the coaches were going ga-ga over his work ethic, you know---according to Pluto. 
--Jaws played the position. I respect his opinion. I personally did not see the poise in the pocket, unless he is talking about holding the ball for a long time. Weeden's mechanics are pretty good. His delivery is too long, but his footwork and throwing motion are sound. He obviously has the arm.
I am actually excited that Jaws said this. It would be a dream come true if Weeden turned out to be the guy. It would automatically solve so many problems. While I am still extremely doubtful, I do have some hope that he can at least be decent.
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I have kind of a tempered hope for Brandon, too. Last year, there was all the talk about how good he looked in shorts, and then the first game happened...
I think Brandon shows poise, but I feel like it's overshadowed by his hesitancy, which showed up more as the year went on. I also wasn't too keen on his footwork when he had to drop back from under center.
I just hope at this point the game has started to slow down for him a little bit, and he has found some way to improve his anticipation.
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NFL.com Ron Jaworski: Brandon Weeden has skills to take leap For the Cleveland Browns to take the next step, quarterback Brandon Weeden must improve on his uneven rookie campaign from a season ago. ESPN's Ron Jaworski believes that's about to happen. Jaws, cycling through his annual quarterback rankings, watched every one of Weeden's throws from 2012 and came away impressed, going so far as to say that the 29-year-old passer "will be a rock-solid NFL starter in Norv Turner's offense," per Evan Silva of Rotoworld. "For a rookie, Weeden showed uncommon poise and calm in the pocket," said Jaworski, who called Weeden's mechanics "consistently solid" and touted the quarterback's ability to "sit on his back foot and drive the ball with velocity." It's a surprising assessment. On the surface, Weeden's rookie season was a hot-and-cold affair that showed off his strong arm but exposed his poor decision-making. Jaws has closely been analyzing signal-callers for decades, so his stamp of approval is encouraging. Moving from Pat Shurmur's paint-by-numbers West Coast offense to Turner's aggressive downfield passing attack should help. Weeden is more of a gunslinger-type passer, and coach Rob Chudzinski has promised to make the most of his quarterback's deep-ball ability. Any one of Weeden's games from last season reveals plenty of negatives to go along with the positives, but Jaws -- along with NFL.com's Bucky Brooks -- believes Weeden will flip the switch in his second season.
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It's interesting to see someone stick their neck out to say they see Weeden becoming a good QB for us. I'll be happy when training camp starts and Weeden is seen a bit more.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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That's encouraging. I've always valued Jaws' assessment of players, especially QBs.
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What encourages me is Dilfer likes the Weedmister a lot. Dilfer hasnt had anything good to say about the Browns since he left.
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He also was reported to have been working with Weinkie during the off-season.
So say what you will, but the fact is, there are two referances to him working hard and zero referances that he isn't working hard.
So if you have something to support your opinion, please post it. If not, you can stop trying to dismiss those who have sources that say he is working hard.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Interesting, Jaws said this:
"For a rookie, Weeden showed uncommon poise and calm in the pocket,"
Yet, around here, some folks are saying quite the opposite. Some posters on here say he dances around too much and looks indecisive. Not poised and calm at all. I'm not saying who's right or wrong on this. I don't know. But what I do know is that Jaws is sometimes a bit of a blow hard. So I'm thinking a Grain of Salt is in order.
But I'll go back to another thread on this subject, IN TURNERS and CHUDS system, I see him improving greatly. But not JUST because of that. Little is in his Third year, Gordon (when he's allowed to play) is in his second season, Bess has been added and I really think that Nelson is going to show up. And of course, Weeden is in his second year.
So it's NOT just Weeden that will be the reason he improves, I think when it's all said and done, it will be because everything/everyone around him improved..
It doesn't hurt that TRich will be in his second year. His first in the NFL with an offense that LOVES Running Backs.
In either case, I hope he's right about Weeden
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There was also a reference in a Terry Pluto article about him and Davone Bess being the first two players in Berea each morning during OTAs.
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 07/02/13 12:23 PM.
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This is good to hear, I never thought much of Jaws or Dilfer as good NFL QB's, but they both know the position well even if they couldn't play it ... JMHO  
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This is good to hear, I never thought much of Jaws or Dilfer as good NFL QB's, but they both know the position well even if they couldn't play it ... JMHO
Say what you want, they both played well enough to get to the big game. one even won...LOL
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Quote:
Interesting, Jaws said this:
"For a rookie, Weeden showed uncommon poise and calm in the pocket,"
Yet, around here, some folks are saying quite the opposite
Battered fan syndrome.
I said all year that the moment never looked too big for Weeden except his first game. I said his mistakes were Rookie mistakes and that I expect him to be much improved this year. Objective eyes say the same.
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We shall see.
Jaworski is one of the few people that I do listen too. He knows what he is talking about and is very through in his research.
So it is encouraging to get a positive note from him regarding Weeden's future.
The questions that surround Weeden from my perspective is all about knowing who to throw too , when. Decision making and timing.
Weeden will get a legitimate opportunity to prove what he can do "this year".
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Yep blame the offense for everything. That must be why he didn't see wide open guys, that must be why he overthrew guys running wide open on numerous occasions. Must be.
I think he can improve, but some of what Jaws wrote doesn't jive with what I saw.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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All Pro
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I didn't mind the Weeden pick, but hated naming him as the Game 1 starter. He should have sat 5-6 games before being thrown into the fire.
This year is different. He should be ready Game 1. We'll see.
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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Quote:
Few rookie QBs understand what it takes to be a successful NFL QB. Most learn it between their first and 2nd year. A lot of these kids do not understand how to study film and break it down. I liked the fact that Weeden did spend time with Weinke working exclusively on his footwork before the OTA's and mini camps. That will pay off in the long term.
I also loved the fact that during the first mini camps,it was all about how much better Campbell was than Weeden and by the time they got to the last week it was that Weeden was solidifying himself as the starter over Campbell.
I also like that Norv is thee guy in Weeden's ear. I am excited to see if Weeden becomes the guy Heckert believed him to be or is he another failed experiment.
I love everything you said and agree 100% except that he wasn't Heckert's pick, In fact Hecket didnt want to take him in the first round at all but Holmgren forced the pick. Heckert might have wanted him in the second or third round but not in the first.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82...don-weeden-pick
"I said, 'Tom, do you want to do this?' " Holmgren said after the draft. "He said, 'I don't think I do. I think it's too much or too strong or whatever.'
"Then I said, 'Well, we may have to.' Then he goes, 'Well, if we have to, then you have to tell me because I won't do it.'
"I said, 'OK, then I might have to tell you.' "
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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I really, really hated that we drafted Weeden where we did just as much as I hated drafting BQ there.
That being said I am hoping he does great this season and we can avoid drafting a QB for a year or two.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Most Improved for 2013 - Brandon
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