Tristan can not defend centers and he was blocked more than any player in the league last year. It's going to be a train wreck playing him at center unless he gains muscle.
Quote: We were ready to go with Noel at Center, and he's 6'10".
Noel's 6'11", and I for one certainly was not ready to go with him at center because of his weight. Noel's too skinny to match up against big centers, and lacks the outside offensive game to play power forward.
Weight's the same reason I wouldn't want TT banging against other teams' 5s for 30 minutes a game either. It will wear him out and lead to injuries.
That said, I don't think that Grant is done tinkering with the roster. As much as I like Tristan, (love the Knights of the Round Table influence of his name) and the way he has worked his ass of to improve his game, I still have a feeling that he could be looked at as more asset than long term player for the Cavaliers.
Maybe I am just in the post draft giddiness ..... but I really like this draft .... especially given what it started out as. I think that we have 1 or 2 starters, and 3 useful pieces today that we did nt have yesterday. I was really worried that we would take Noel with his knees, or Len with his foot problem. I know that Bennett has the shoulder, but I don't think that's a chronic condition.
Anyway, I am excited about the future more than ever.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: How many "big Centers" are there even in the league right now?
Dwight Howard Roy Hibbert Marc Gasol Brooke Lopez Anderson Varejao Demarcus Cousins Andrew Bogut Kendrick Perkins Al Jefferson Greg Monroe DeAndre Jordan Javale McGee Byron Mullins Timofey Mozgov Al Horford Omer Asik Robin Lopez Chris Kaman Brendan Haywood
Thompson can play center, but that doesn't mean he should. He's not that effective there, and if he's your starting 5, you're in trouble.
Pluto really doesn't know what he's talking about here.
You should put down the scouting reports and watch Karasev's tape. He has a lot of potential, but he's a young project. He needs to bulk up to even see rotational minutes.
He's 19, under 200 pounds, he can't play defense, and his best asset - his shooting - needs work.
You want that guy getting starter's minutes, defending LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Paul George, Kevin Durant, etc.?
He would be eaten alive.
If he does indeed come over - and I think he needs some more time overseas, but it looks like he might suit up this season - I would hope he's limited to a rotational 2, or a 3 in certain sets.
The rotation that you suggested could play with anyone would be abused on a nightly basis. Thompson is the only player whose defense isn't severely lacking, and he would get swallowed up by bigger 5's. Bennett, Karasev, Waiters and Irving can't play defense. And while Mike Brown can do great things in that area, he's not a wizard.
I'm not down on Karasev, it's just not realistic to think he can start at the 3 at this point. If he contributes in limited minutes, it would be a huge success.
Quote: You want that guy getting starter's minutes, defending LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Paul George, Kevin Durant, etc.?
He would be eaten alive.
Pretty much agree with everything you've said in that post, but this one stands out the most for me. I think there's no way Karasev starts based on that alone. He would get destroyed by most 3's in this league.
TT can "hold his own" at Center, but by no means should he be starting full time there. I think Andy is actually our best option at Center, and TT could spell him or Bennett frequently from the Bench. We're still drastically undersized in the front-court, and it's not like we have 4 First team All-NBA'ers in the lineup that could make the "small ball" thing work like Miami can.
And still don't like the Bennett pick. He really has to be a Larry Johnson level guy to justify the selection. Having a hybrid no position guy like that on the floor screws up a lot of things IMO so he really has to be a difference maker to warrant dealing with those headaches.
anyone want to take a shot at getting josh smith? He'd be a instant upgrade over Gee and could play the 4 during small ball.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
Quote: Yeah, Andy's our best center... and he's best suited for PF as well.
If Gilbert keeps publicly talking playoffs, we'd better make a big splash in FA.
Or through a trade.
I see a trade as more likely than going out and signing a top flight free agent this off-season.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
Quote: how about andy and next years first for cousins
I don't know if I want to give up next year's first for anything less than a real game changer. Next year's draft looks really, really strong.
I am just hoping that McLemore helps the Kings grab the final playoff spot in the West .... or, at least to stay in the 13th draft spot so we can get their pick.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: Yeah, Andy's our best center... and he's best suited for PF as well.
If Gilbert keeps publicly talking playoffs, we'd better make a big splash in FA.
Or through a trade.
I see a trade as more likely than going out and signing a top flight free agent this off-season.
That's why I wonder if Thompson will stick around.
I like him, and I don't want to see him go, but we just drafted an offensive version of him, he's our only real valuable piece outside of Varejao, and it appears that we've been shopping him.
I hate to give up our young players, because I d think that most of them have a real future in the NBA ...... but you have to give value to get value ..... and we have some valuable pieces. We also have tons of assets as far as draft picks. Next year, if I'm not mistaken, we have our 1st rounder, possible the King's 1st rounder, our 2nd rounder, and at least 2 other 2nd rounders. (and I'm not sure when the 2 2nd rounders from yesterday's trade with Portland fall)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Draft picks, especially protected ones, don't have all that much value.
I wouldn't move one of our first rounders unless it was heavily protected (giving it little value) or we got an absolute stud with a good contract.
I don't have a problem moving Waiters or Thompson if the price is right. Thompson's made some strides but he's still an offensively liability. And Waiters improved drastically, but is still a low percentage chucker at this point.
But we should make sure we're not taking one step forward, two steps back.
I think that Tristan can be a 15/15 guy this coming season. I love the progress he's made. That said, if I could trade him for a valuable piece elsewhere, I would. It would have to be valuable though. I wouldn't trade him just to trade him. Same thing for Waiters.
If we could trade for a guy like Lebron, or Love, or someone like that, then I would give up an unprotected 1st rounder, no problem. For some "decent" veteran though ..... no way. I don't want to get into trading unprotected 1st rounders, or valuable young veterans, for guys like Mo Williams. (Not him obviously, but players like that)
I don't think that we'll be able to hardball a trade for a top end guy, like Kevin Love, just as an example ..... and we would have to pay dearly for a guy like that. I also don't want to overpay for a solid type veteran. A guy like Andre Iguodala comes to mind as that type of player. He turned down his player's option of $14 million. I wouldn't want to pay him that, or more, even though he is a very solid SF, with strong defensive skills. I don't want to mess up next year's cap, because there are lots of interesting possibilities coming next year from what I have read.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
The best way to play defense in the post is to not let a guy get positioned where he wants to. Tim Duncan did this all series against Z Bo and Memphis. Bennett can be a decent defender just by leveraging his low center of gravity.
So ..... where are we at right now with the Cavaliers?
PG: Irving, Livingston, (FA, maybe a re-sign ... but not likely) SG: Waiters, Ellington, Felix, SF: Gee, Karasev, PF: Thompson, Bennett C: Varejao, Zeller
Other FA not likely to return: Casspi, Miles, Gibson, Jones, Walton, Speights, Quinn
So 10 players, plus one big maybe in Livingston ..... and 7 not likely to return.
I think that's right.
Grant has a lot of work to do in free agency and trades.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Looking at the list of free agents, I see a familiar name still around. I'm not sure which is more surprising ...... that DeSagana Diop still has a job in the NBA ....... or that he made $7.4 million last year for 22 GP, 10.3 MIN/G, 0.7 PPG (yeah, that's right, not even one point per game on average) and 2.3 REB/G.
He scored 16 points last year .... for the season. For almost $8 million. Man I wish I had been born to grow up to be 7' tall with no real talent to speak of whatsoever.
This guy has been in the NBA for 12 seasons, and has never averaged 3 PPG. He has only managed 5 REB/G once. He could block some shots once upon a time ...... but that's about all he could do. That was something like his 5th year in Charlotte too.
This is kinda why I was scared of taking Noel. I truly worried that he could be this type of player.
Charlotta paying him almost $8 million this past season just blows my mind though. Wow.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
His biggest year was 226 points scored ...... for the entire season. Tyler Zeller scored 610 last year as a rookie struggling to find his way in the NBA. Zeller is actually over half way to Diops career total in points scored. Diop had scored 1182 points in 12 seasons. Wow. That's sad.
His best rebounding season was 5.4 rebounds/game. Tyler Zeller averaged 5.7 REB/G last season as an undersized rookie.
The only thing that Diop ever did well was block shots. He averaged 1.8 and 1.4 Blocks/Game in his 2 best seasons. Believe it or not, and I didn't until I looked ..... Zeller actually blocked 70 shots last year. Diop only beat that number in 4 of his 12 seasons.
It just amazes me the stupid money .... and more importantly, stupid guaranteed money, that NBA teams play to scrub players. If I was n the owners side in the next contract negotiations, I would definitely try to change that so that teams could improve themselves by getting rid of under-performing players with contracts they are not worthy of. There could be more to go around for guys who actually contribute, and players would not be stuck on a bad team, long term, because a teammate who does nothing for the team got some ridiculous contract that means that the team cannot bring in another quality player. I know that players like that they can suck and still get paid, but there has to be some sort of happy medium.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: His biggest year was 226 points scored ...... for the entire season. Tyler Zeller scored 610 last year as a rookie struggling to find his way in the NBA. Zeller is actually over half way to Diops career total in points scored. Diop had scored 1182 points in 12 seasons. Wow. That's sad.
His best rebounding season was 5.4 rebounds/game. Tyler Zeller averaged 5.7 REB/G last season as an undersized rookie.
The only thing that Diop ever did well was block shots. He averaged 1.8 and 1.4 Blocks/Game in his 2 best seasons. Believe it or not, and I didn't until I looked ..... Zeller actually blocked 70 shots last year. Diop only beat that number in 4 of his 12 seasons.
I'm asking this politely, not to be rude, but do you watch much basketball? Or do you just look at stat averages?
Again, I'm not trying to snipe, but I'm trying to understand where you come from sometimes.
For example, the year in question that you're comparing, Diop's per 36 rebound average was 10.9. Zeller's was 7.8. Zeller's Per-36 shot blocking average was 1.2. Diop's was 2.7. Diop's win shares per 48 minutes was .13. Zeller's was .048.
Diop was a huge defensive presence for the Mavs for a few years. There was a short window where he was a fantastic defender, but didn't play huge minutes because he was an offensive liability and couldn't keep up with the Mavs' offense. He didn't warrant the contract he got, but it seems like you're just looking at his stat averages.
Just looking at yearly averages won't tell you much.
Quote: I keep seeing this argument about Noel is "too skinny to match up with big Centers"
How many "big Centers" are there even in the league right now?
Noel is going to be fine.
Come on man....you have to put your Ky bias aside a bit...and I am a SEC guy.....the kid is way light for his size. He has a lot of work to do to gain 50 LBs.
At some point 2-3 years ago the process should have been in gear. Nobody showed him were the weightroom was?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Quote: Reportedly, Brown was a large force behind the pick and had Bennett as the clear #1 player. I don't want to put too much in to Mike Brown, but he turned Daniel Gibson and Sasha Pavlovic into good NBA defenders. I'd think he can do it with a young, impressionable player.
Yea from what i read Brown's son was being recruited by unlv, and that's where he first seen Bennett. I guess when he seen him play, mike was salivating at the chance to coach him.
All in all I see an improved roster with still plenty of money to spend. WE won 24 games with a plethora of injuries. Even in Bennett starts on the bench, our 2nd group will be light years ahead of last year. The 2nd quarter was where we were killed in most games last year. If we add a veteran small forward we should have no problem getting in the playoffs. Plus if Bennett is proven to be the correct pick, it will allow us to trade a guy like Thompson to fill a specific need.
And still don't like the Bennett pick. He really has to be a Larry Johnson level guy to justify the selection. Having a hybrid no position guy like that on the floor screws up a lot of things IMO so he really has to be a difference maker to warrant dealing with those headaches.
If we drafted a Larry Johnson, we got a pretty damn good player. I really don't know what to expect next year because we still have to sign guys.
Nah, I understand that stats don't tell the whole story ...... but they do tell part of it. I just find the comparison to be really funny ...... because stats do tell us, to some extent, who a player is. In the end, his production is who he was on the court.
Diop was a solid, but not spectacular defender (especially in Cleveland) ..... and a complete waste on the offensive end. He was decent in Dallas .... but hardly some complete shutdown guy. The only reason I brought up Zeller is because really Diop's main claim to fame was blocking shots, and I just thought that it was kinda funny that Zeller was better at that last year than Diop was in most seasons. He was so incredibly inept on the offensive end that it's damn near scary ...... yet he still got $8 million/year.
I remember Diop well, and he was really only a part time player. For him to get $8 million for being a part time, very limited player, just blows my mind. I know that this kind of stuff happens all the time ...... but I am just glad that the Cavaliers let him go when they had the chance, rather than signing him to that ungodly contract.
As far as Dallas, he really only played 2 seasons before they dumped him. He was a contributor, but not at the level you want to make him out to be. He was a complete and total waste on the offensive end of the court.
Man, I can remember him loping up the court in Cleveland ..... Huge kid, but about as physically coordinated as I am. lol He was tall, and had extremely long, almost freakishly long, arms. He had zero offensive game though, and was very limited even on defense. The strange part is that he never, ever, developed anything even remotely resembling an offensive game, yet still managed a 12 year, very highly paid career.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Seriously, keep this kid in the 250 range and he can definitely do some damage. He moves incredibly well for his size. He can shoot, but I don't want him camping outside the arc. That midrange game is niiiiice.
Quote: Seriously, keep this kid in the 250 range and he can definitely do some damage. He moves incredibly well for his size. He can shoot, but I don't want him camping outside the arc. That midrange game is niiiiice.
I agree. He has a nice shot from anywhere out to 3 point range. I don't want to take that big body out from down low all the time, but he can certainly move out to 8'-12' and knock down a jumper.
One funny thing about this pick is that it's been reported that Brown really wanted Bennett. Brown, though, has never that I can think of, run a lot of plays for his PF. (I didn't watch a lot of his Lakers teams though) He's a completely defensive coach, and he insisted on drafting a completely offensive player.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Man I wish I had been born to grow up to be 7' tall with no real talent to speak of whatsoever. 
Tyler Zeller scored 610 last year as a rookie struggling to find his way in the NBA. Zeller is actually over half way to Diops career total in points scored. Diop had scored 1182 points in 12 seasons. Wow. That's sad. 
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