|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
Quote:
One funny thing about this pick is that it's been reported that Brown really wanted Bennett. Brown, though, has never that I can think of, run a lot of plays for his PF. (I didn't watch a lot of his Lakers teams though) He's a completely defensive coach, and he insisted on drafting a completely offensive player.
Having 3 iso offensive guys makes his life easier 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,569
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,569 |
Quote:
Quote:
One funny thing about this pick is that it's been reported that Brown really wanted Bennett. Brown, though, has never that I can think of, run a lot of plays for his PF. (I didn't watch a lot of his Lakers teams though) He's a completely defensive coach, and he insisted on drafting a completely offensive player.
Having 3 iso offensive guys makes his life easier
True.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
Something to factor when projecting free agents: remember that we need to pay Bennet and Sergey. So that's roughly 7 mil in cap space gone.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,569
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,569 |
I don't know if we'll try to sign a couple of lesser pieces for a shorter term, or try to somehow land one bigger name for the longer term.
I know that we are supposed to have enough room to sign 2 "big" free agents next year. I think that Grant will try to trade for a couple of mid level type veteran guys who aren't super expensive. I don't see us spending on a huge contract for anyone, unless it's a 1 year deal.
I am also glad that we weren't sucked into a bad contract like Shawn Marion. (even though he is only signed for this year) A contract like that might have hurt our ability to make a trade later this year ... for example, if we have to take bad salary to get a top player in a trade.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,569
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,569 |
I do have a question for those with a great deal of NBA knowledge ......
What would you think of making a run at Al Jefferson? He's not the strongest defender in the NBA, , but he is a very effective scorer. I would love to see an 18 PPG guy in the middle.
He is 28, so he should still have a few good years left. He would immediately upgrade the Center position offensively for the Cavaliers, and would allow us to move either Andy or Tristan for value. (or keep them for heavy duty depth) He has also been relatively healthy throughout his career. He would have to step it up on defense, but the guy knows how to score ..... which this team still needs.
He's probably not worth a max deal, (who really is) but he seems like he could be a solid piece of the puzzle for us.
I looked at Rotoworld, and they have us with, if I added right, about $33 million in current contracts. (including Wellington's qualifying offer) Someone said that the rookie deals will take up another $6 million. That's a total of $39 million in 2013-2014 contracts. The cap is $59 or so million. The floor is 90% of that. That means that we are required to get to $53 million in 2013-2014 dollars. So, we need to spend at least $14 million more, up to $20 million more. (again, if I added right)
Then again, we may want to hold as much as we can to see if we can find a team in salary cap luxury tax trouble later in the season who needs to move a talent. I wonder who we could get in on 1 year deals?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,918
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,918 |
Quote:
Noel was up to 228 while at Kentucky. He's lost 22lbs since his injury.
And my Kentucky bias has nothing to do with the fact that there's very few true Centers in the NBA today.
I'd be more worried if the Centers he was going up against were Hakeem and Shaq instead of Brook Lopez.
You make a fair point on center size, but that doesn't change the fact the guy is light. I don't understand how you lose that much weight since the injury. My thinking is people usually add weight when they can't be as active as before.
I have been on a 3-4 year long effort to drop some weight. I really want to drop the last 10-15 lbs to settle in at 180 lbs. That will make a even 100 lbs of weight loss. In about 10 minutes I will head to the riverwalk to log in 8 miles. If I was like this guy, maybe I would be better off to just sit here on the computer talking Browns for the next 2-3 hours. 
Nope....I am going to go for my walk.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,569
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,569 |
He had a fairly muscular body, (his upper body anyway) despite having a slight build. As long as he lowered his caloric intake, which seems likely, it seems to me that he could lose some weight as he loses muscle mass, without necessarily gaining fat. he could also do some aerobic type exercises using his arms that would keep his metabolism at a high level.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,882
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,882 |
That is one of the odd things about weight. If someone has a predisposition to be heavy, if they just sit around doing nothing except eating normally then they gain weight. But for someone has a predisposition to be skinny, if they sit around all day doing nothing except eating normally they lose weight.
I think heavier people burn fat when they exercise whereas skinny people add muscle mass. JMO.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,918
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,918 |
Probably some truth in that since heavier people usually have more muscle mass up to a point if for no other reason they they have been carrying more weight around. That said, I don't think a person loses 20 lbs of muscle mass in a few short months.
You might lose some of the size in the muscle, but for the most part the muscle is there. I don't know that it ever simply goes away.
At any rate, I like the guy we selected. Everything I have read is he is a good shooter and pretty much NBA ready....as much as a rook can be. While his ceiling may not be as high as the bean pole, it isn't going to take him 5-6 years to fill out.
I think the Cavs were wise to take someone with a fairly high floor if that makes any sense and will step in a be at the least a solid NBA player. Solid, as in solid NBA starter, and a guy who will probably see his fair share of all-star contests.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
I've had multiple leg surgeries in the past. The medicine they give you surprises your appetite.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
I'll make his job simple, these are the only plays you run: Pick and Roll with your two #1 picks and Dion Waiters.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
It's really hard to tell how Bennett will turn out in the NBA, because a lot of what he did at UNLV was getting right to the basket... Don't know if he can get away with it at the next level, but I love that he can shoot a little bit. Could we have another David West type guy? That would be awesome. I love the way David West plays. Freaking competitor.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,276
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,276 |
Kokoskov likely speaking some Russian ( he's from Yugoslav / Serbia during the ussr) could be a lot of help for the new rookie. Not sure how good the rooks English is at his point.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,569
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,569 |
He speaks some very rudimentary English, at this point. (at least that's what it appeared in his interview)
I bet that Potapenko could also speak to him quite easily, being from the Ukraine.
Zydrunas might be able to as well.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,569
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,569 |
No surprise here. Marreese Speights opts out of final year of contract: Cleveland Cavaliers Insider | cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2013/06/marreese_speights_opts_out_of.htmlCLEVELAND, Ohio -- As expected, power forward Marreese Speights has opted out of the final year of his contract with the Cleveland Cavaliers and will become an unrestricted free agent, agent Andy Miller confirmed on Saturday. Though it was widely believed Speights would opt out, Miller told The Plain Dealer last week the decision wouldn't be made until after the draft, and when the Cavs took UNLV power forward Anthony Bennett with the No. 1 pick, that clinched it. The 6-10, 255-pound Speights was obtained in a mid-season deal with the Memphis Grizzlies and averaged 10.2 points and 5.1 rebounds, though he was inconsistent offensively and defensively. He was scheduled to make $4.5 million next season. Lauderdale with Portland: Solon native Dallas Lauderdale of Ohio State will play for the Portland Trail Blazers entry in the Las Vegas Summer League, according to his agent, Mark Termini. Lauderdale was in training camp with the Blazers before last season. Kadji signed: Miami junior forward Kenny Kadji was picked up by the Cavs as a free agent, Miami coach Jim Larranaga said in a release issued by the school. Kadji is expected to compete with the team's summer league team, although they have not yet released their roster. "Kenny will impress a lot of scouts with his size, shooting ability and overall athleticism,'' Larranaga said. "I am confident he will be in the NBA this season." Kadji averaged 12.4 points, 6.1 rebounds and 1.4 blocks in 68 games over two seasons. He was selected second team All-ACC in 2013, third team All-ACC in 2012 and was named the 2011 Orange Bowl Basketball Classic Game MVP. He made 47.9 percent of his field goals, 37.3 percent of his 3-point shots and just 64.9 percent of his free throws. He had a career-high 30 points against UNC Greensboro in 2012 and a career-best 14 rebounds at Georgia Tech in 2013.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 857
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 857 |
Just a question if the cavs signed howard would they be the pick to beat miami?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
Quote:
Just a question if the cavs signed howard would they be the pick to beat miami?
Yes in my opinion. We'd have a 4 man rotation of bigs that would give Miami problems.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
Quote:
Quote:
Just a question if the cavs signed howard would they be the pick to beat miami?
Yes in my opinion. We'd have a 4 man rotation of bigs that would give Miami problems.
We also have what Indiana didn't have, that they really needed. A point guard that can do serious damage.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,569
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,569 |
Quote:
Just a question if the cavs signed howard would they be the pick to beat miami?
Considering that there is zero chance of that happening .... why worry about it?
I do admit to allowing myself to think about how the Cavaliers would look with one or 2 solid 1st round draft picks in next year's loaded draft, with the young foundation we have in place ........ and with a certain player who can opt out of his contract ........
With Irving, Waiters, and Bennett all able to drive or hit an outside shot ...... and with Karasev able to hit shots out to the 3 point line (we could play him some at backup SG, if that certain free agent comes home) ..... and with Thompson growing and improving all the time ........
Plus, we'll almost certainly have to sign or trade for a veteran sometime this season to hit the mandatory salary floor.
Man, things are starting to look really, really interesting .....
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Just a question if the cavs signed howard would they be the pick to beat miami?
Yes in my opinion. We'd have a 4 man rotation of bigs that would give Miami problems.
We also have what Indiana didn't have, that they really needed. A point guard that can do serious damage.
They have Paul George though
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
LBJ isn't coming back, at least not in 2014.
The Heat have gone to the Finals for the last three years, and won the last two. Like it or not, quality players are going to flock to that team as long as they keep winning. The Big 3 will be broken up eventually, but that just frees up more cap space to pick from the line that queues to join the dynasty.
As for us... I will be interested to see what happens come Monday. We need a starting 3 - if you want the playoffs, Gee or Karasev isn't going to cut it. We also probably need a 5, as it's officially ridiculous to envision Varejao making it through the season. There's a few teams in the league that Thompson is an adequate 5 against, but not many. If you're relying on Zeller to man the 5, you're probably not going to make it very far in the playoffs.
Waiters improved a lot as his rookie year went on, but if he doesn't play some defense and make smarter shot selections, he needs to see the bench. He has a lot of time to grow, but right now I'd put his ceiling at microwave scorer off the bench.
As of today, if Andy can stay healthy, we're possibly a 6-8 seed. I wouldn't count on that, and without him, this is another lottery squad. But I don't think our opening day roster will look like it does now.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,569
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,569 |
I dunno.
I have read certain reporters who know him and those close to him insisting that he is coming back to the Cavaliers. If not in 2014, then the following year. (when he can also opt out)
Wade isn't getting any younger. he is 31 and noticeably slowed down late in the season. Bosh isn't a great fit in Miami. They do have Ray Allen, but beyond him, what? Chalmers and Cole are a decent, though unspectacular combo at PG. They have nothing at C. (unless Bosh plays there, but he is horribly inconsistent) PF is bleh unless Bosh plays there.
The Heat are rapidly becoming James and "those other guys", even with Wade and Bosh. (Much as the Cavaliers were when he left. The difference is that James didn't vanish in game 7 this yearlike he did in Cleveland.
The Cavaliers are loaded with young talent, and have a ton of cap room to use. (and about $10-12 million that they have to use this year in order to reach the salary floor) They could possibly go get a guy like Al Jefferson and make the Center position an offensive spot.
That would give us an asset at C/PF that we could trade for value.
We would have:
PG: Irving, (Maybe Livingston who is a FA)
SG: Waiters, Felix, Wellington
PF: Thompson, Bennett
C: Harrison, Varejao, Zeller
SF: Karasev, Gee
That's a pretty damn good top 11-12. That would give us premium scorers at PG, SG, C, and possibly PF. SF would be our weakest position, but there are a lot of people who think that Karasev will be a decent player as soon as his rookie year. (maybe a 10-12 PPG guy, with range) He looks like he can get his own shot, and can shoot out to 3 point range. Defensively is where he is most likely to struggle. He'll need to add about 15-20# to be effective at SF. There is always a concern about a guy coming over from the Euro-Russian leagues, but this kid has played well up to the Championship games.
He's 6'7", and he has a 6'10" wingspan. He's the son of a coach, and is said to be very smart on the court. He is supposed to be an excellent passer. He's probably not going to drive on a lot of guys, but he's an excellent spot up shooter, and can create separation to get his own shot. He could be the offensive guy off the bench, or we could start him and bring in Gee as the defensive stopper at the end of the game. I like this kid. I don;t expect him to turn into Lebron James, but I do think that he will develop into a guy who can play on a Championship team.
We have 2 second round picks in 2014, and possibly 2 1st rounders if the Kings can sneak into the playoffs. I was so glad to see them land McLemore and McCallum, so hopefully they can get in, or at least into the 13th spot in the draft so the Cavaliers can take their 1st rounder too. (The pick is protected 1-12 next year)
As a side note, has anyone seen anything about what 2nd rounders we get from Portland from the trade for 31 in this past draft? I know there are 2 of them, but I haven't seen if they are their own picks, the picks they are owed by Minnesota and New York, or a combination of one of those plus one of their own ..... and what year the picks come to Cleveland.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,426
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,426 |
I believe I read they were Portland's second round picks in 2015 and 2016.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
Quote:
LBJ isn't coming back, at least not in 2014.
Yep.
Quote:
The Heat have gone to the Finals for the last three years, and won the last two. Like it or not, quality players are going to flock to that team as long as they keep winning. The Big 3 will be broken up eventually, but that just frees up more cap space to pick from the line that queues to join the dynasty.
Yep. Wade and Bosh are pretty much irrelevant to Miami's success at this point. Neither one played better than any run-of-the-mill role player in the ECF or the Finals this year, and they won it all. That team goes as Lebron goes. And when Wade and Bosh are gone, other role-players with a bit left in the tank who want a ring will be on the first flight to Miami. The only thing that's going to slow Miami down is the lack of draft picks, but that'll matter 5, 6, 7 years from now and, if you've won 4 or 5 rings in that time period, who really cares?
Quote:
As for us... I will be interested to see what happens come Monday. We need a starting 3 - if you want the playoffs, Gee or Karasev isn't going to cut it. We also probably need a 5, as it's officially ridiculous to envision Varejao making it through the season. There's a few teams in the league that Thompson is an adequate 5 against, but not many. If you're relying on Zeller to man the 5, you're probably not going to make it very far in the playoffs.
Agreed. Relying on Varejao is playing with fire, and has been for a while now. Gee and (right now) Karasev are too one-dimensional to be major factors in a legit contender.
Quote:
Waiters improved a lot as his rookie year went on, but if he doesn't play some defense and make smarter shot selections, he needs to see the bench. He has a lot of time to grow, but right now I'd put his ceiling at microwave scorer off the bench.
Exactly the reason I think he should play that JR Smith/Jordan Crawford 6th man instant offense type of role. I think he'd be perfectly fine with that, too.
Quote:
As of today, if Andy can stay healthy, we're possibly a 6-8 seed. I wouldn't count on that, and without him, this is another lottery squad. But I don't think our opening day roster will look like it does now.
I think 6 seed is pretty generous, barring a major addition to the roster. I don't think the Cavs are a .500 team, which would represent a 70% increase in wins for the season. There's no way they finish any better than 3rd in the division, and a 4th place division finish won't be in the playoffs.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
Quote:
PG: Irving, (Maybe Livingston who is a FA)
SG: Waiters, Felix, Wellington
PF: Thompson, Bennett
C: Harrison, Varejao, Zeller
SF: Karasev, Gee
Who are Wellington and Harrison?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
I have read certain reporters who know him and those close to him insisting that he is coming back to the Cavaliers. If not in 2014, then the following year. (when he can also opt out)
As long as the Heat keeping winning (and I don't see how they won't), I don't see it happening.
I think the notion of being a villain was hard for him at first, until he started racking up the hardware.
Now he just wants rings so his legacy can go toe-to-toe with Jordan's. Why leave a ring factory when that's the goal?
Quote:
Wade isn't getting any younger. he is 31 and noticeably slowed down late in the season.
You don't think there's a long list of 4's that are salivating over taking his spot in a dynasty that the whole sports world can't look away from?
Quote:
Bosh isn't a great fit in Miami.
Again, do you watch much basketball?
Look at his numbers in Miami. And he's their third option.
Not a great fit? They just won their second title. I don't think they need to worry about Bosh 'fitting'. He's alright.
Quote:
Chalmers and Cole are a decent, though unspectacular combo at PG.
That's all they need.
Quote:
They have nothing at C. (unless Bosh plays there, but he is horribly inconsistent) PF is bleh unless Bosh plays there.
Again, they don't really need it.
They can win titles all day long with Birdman/Haslam caliber players.
Quote:
The Heat are rapidly becoming James and "those other guys", even with Wade and Bosh.
The Heat just won their second title and are odds-on favorites to three-peat.
Are you really picking apart the Heat? 
Quote:
We would have:
PG: Irving, (Maybe Livingston who is a FA)
SG: Waiters, Felix, Wellington
PF: Thompson, Bennett
C: Harrison, Varejao, Zeller
SF: Karasev, Gee
That's a pretty damn good top 11-12.
Pretty damn good top 11-12? Are you serious? That's a lottery/fringe one-and-done playoff team.
And probably the worst defensive team in the NBA. Even Mike Brown couldn't help that. Could you imagine how badly that lineup would be abused on defense? They'd probably give up 105-107 a night.
Again - if Karasev is your starting 3, you're probably a lottery team. You can parrot all the scouting reports all you want, but if he's starting next year at the 3, he will be absolutely eaten alive. He's raw, he's undersized, and he can't play defense. He may be able to get there someday, but right now, if he had a bench role as a catch-and-shoot wing guy, I'd be very happy.
Have you actually watched Karasev play, or are you just going off scouting reports?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,569
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,569 |
Quote:
Quote:
PG: Irving, (Maybe Livingston who is a FA)
SG: Waiters, Felix, Wellington
PF: Thompson, Bennett
C: Harrison, Varejao, Zeller
SF: Karasev, Gee
Who are Wellington and Harrison?
Wellington is what happens you combine Wayne and Ellington into one word.  
Harrison is a proposed free agent signing.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
PG: Irving, (Maybe Livingston who is a FA)
SG: Waiters, Felix, Wellington
PF: Thompson, Bennett
C: Harrison, Varejao, Zeller
SF: Karasev, Gee
Who are Wellington and Harrison?
Wellington is what happens you combine Wayne and Ellington into one word.
Harrison is a proposed free agent signing.
Ahh, well, the Cavs declined to offer (W)Ellington a qualifying offer, so he's gone.
Still don't know who Harrison is, since nobody in the NBA has that last name. Do you mean Al Harrington?
Also, found this little nugget that I posted 3 seasons ago...
Quote:
Expect the Cavs to not win a playoff series until the 2014 playoffs, and likely another two to three years after that before they have a shot at the ECF. ... I'm serious when I say that the Cavs will probably have re-signed LeBron at that point to be the guy that can help them get from a bottom 4 seed to a top 4 seed.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Yeah, a 6 seed is probably too generous, but I was thinking along the lines of teams that just occupied the lower seeds like Atlanta or Boston folding up the tent for rebuilds.
I cringe a bit at all of this 'playoffs or bust' talk from our front office. I'm not saying the playoffs are out of the question, but we're not there yet, and we shouldn't rush it, or we may end up treading water for a long time.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,569
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,569 |
Bosh disappears too often to be a legitimate 3rd option. Did you watch game 7 of the finals? In the regular season, Bosh averaged 16.8 PPG. Did he turn it on in the playoffs? Nope. Out of 23 post season games, how many times did he even top 15 PPG? 8 times. He scored in single digits 6 times, including being shut out in game 7 of the finals.Bosh is really not a rebounder either. He has gotten worse at rebounding each year since he left Toronto. He does do a nice job blocking shots, but every other measure of his game has declined since he hit Miami. Oh, and no true 1st, 2nd, or 3rd option on a team gets blanked in game 7 of the NBA finals. Quote:
You don't think there's a long list of 4's that are salivating over taking his spot in a dynasty that the whole sports world can't look away from?
Sure. Maybe. Wade has player options, just like Lebron and Bosh do, in each of the next 2 seasons. If Wade drops off, or get hurt, he'll just collect his money. Those are all big dollar contracts. The Heat cannot add anyone except on an exception type contract, or a veteran minimum, and won't be able to do so for the next 3 seasons. The "big 3" put Miami damn near at the cap all by themselves.
So, how many high quality 4s, anywhere near their prime, are going to run to Miami to play for an exception type deal? You'll get the guys at the end who want to make a last run at a ring, but not the top end guys. You might get a veteran like a Ray Allen, who accepts less than he could make elsewhere, if you're lucky.
As far as the lineup I propose, adding a scoring Center like Harrison would really change the complexion of the team. Instead of trying to get by with a Center scoring 6 or 7 PPG, he would be a 15-20 PPG guy ..... especially with guys like Dion and Kyrie able to drive and dish. You make an argument that we can't do anything without a SF, but that other teams are fine with major holes. If we had Kyrie, Dion, Harrison, and either Thompson or Bennett starting, we could get by with a "half" type SF. (By half, I mean a guy who is mostly offense, or mostly defense)
I also expect our defense to improve greatly next year. As Mike Brown said, we had an excellent defense with guys Damon Jones and Donyell Marshall. He's right. We also had Lebron shutting down his guy .... but we had some scrub type players who played excellent defense. No reason to expect that he won't be able to get quality defense out of our young players.
As far as Karasev, I have watched a lot of video on the guy, and read a ton of different opinions on him. He was very often the top scorer on the best team in the Euro League.He's not Lebron, but he is, by far, a better looking offensive option than Gee. Gee is an excellent defender. I think that the 2 can combine to be an effective, if not spectacular, combination. If we add a quality Center, (or if Varejao stays healthy ....*shudder* knock on wood) and Bennett develops .... then we should have a solid offensive team. I think that Thompson is well on pace to being a 15/15 guy.
You have ragged on Waiters, but he stopped trying to be a 3 point hero as the year went on, and started driving the basket more. He became more effective. He was still somewhat up and down, but guess what .... that happens with rookies. He also averaged over 14 PPG. For a rookie SG, that's not bad at all. he does need to make better decisions, but he now gets an off-season to work on his game, review things he did well, and things he needs to do better. I think that Mike Brown will set the expectations he has for each player, on offense and defense, and enforce those. I don't think we'll see as much freelancing as we did last year. Also, I was way down on the team defense last year, and I truly believe that started with Scott. Scott never really enforced defensive discipline. At all. Brown will. I think that Waiters has all the tools to become a solid defender, and that he will do so.
I believe that the rest of the team will also improve significantly on defense as well.We were the 6th worse team last year on defense. I fully expect that we'll move up to the middle of the league this season. (barring catastrophic injuries)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
If you take Bosh off the Heat, they lose game 6.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,569
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,569 |
That's true. However, he still disappeared a lot in the playoffs.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
Bosh disappears too often to be a legitimate 3rd option.
You've got to be kidding me.
Quote:
In the regular season, Bosh averaged 16.8 PPG.
If you asked every GM in the league if they would take 16.6 at a 53% clip from their third scoring option, how many do you think would say 'no'?
Quote:
Out of 23 post season games, how many times did he even top 15 PPG? 8 times.
Aren't you trying to argue that he isn't a legitimate third scoring option?
You're making the opposite case with these numbers.
Quote:
Bosh is really not a rebounder either. He has gotten worse at rebounding each year since he left Toronto.
I'm not trying to be mean, but I have to ask again -
Do you watch much basketball, or do you come to conclusions based on looking at stat averages?
Quote:
As far as the lineup I propose, adding a scoring Center like Harrison would really change the complexion of the team. Instead of trying to get by with a Center scoring 6 or 7 PPG, he would be a 15-20 PPG guy ..... especially with guys like Dion and Kyrie able to drive and dish.
I'm going to assume by 'Harrison' that you mean Al Jefferson? If not, ignore the rest of this.
Al Jefferson can't play defense. Look up his team's points against averages when he's on the floor vs. off.
Karasev can't play defense. Dion Waiters is a bad defender. Kyrie Irving is a bad defender. Tristan Thompson is an average to above average defender.
I don't disagree with you that good defensive schemes can mask weak areas, but when practically your entire starting 5 is a weak area, you can only do so much.
Quote:
You make an argument that we can't do anything without a SF, but that other teams are fine with major holes. If we had Kyrie, Dion, Harrison, and either Thompson or Bennett starting, we could get by with a "half" type SF. (By half, I mean a guy who is mostly offense, or mostly defense)
That's not what I'm arguing at all.
I'm saying if Karasev is our starting SF, we're probably a lottery team.
He doesn't even weigh 200 pounds. He can't play defense. He can shoot, but even that area of his game needs work.
Let's look at the list of 3's in the Eastern Conference playoffs this year - LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Paul George, Gerald Wallace, Luol Deng, Josh Smith, Paul Pierce, Luc Richard Mbah a Moute.
Which one of those matchups do you think Karasev would hold his own in?
And, no we couldn't get by with that description. We'd be useless on the defensive end. Mike Brown can get the most out of his players on D, yes, but he isn't a wizard. With that lineup, we'd lose most games 121-117, 108-100, 114-101, etc.
Quote:
I think that the 2 can combine to be an effective, if not spectacular, combination.
Gee and Karasev an 'effective, if not spectacular combination'?
I mean ... I don't even really know what to say. That's absolutely ridiculous.
If all upside potential was met ... maybe that could happen 3 years down the road .... but it's extremely unlikely. I doubt either one of them is our starting SF come opening day, and if they are, I wouldn't expect to much from us this season.
Quote:
You have ragged on Waiters, but he stopped trying to be a 3 point hero as the year went on, and started driving the basket more. He became more effective. He was still somewhat up and down, but guess what .... that happens with rookies. He also averaged over 14 PPG. For a rookie SG, that's not bad at all.
You've got to stop just looking at averages.
14 points a game at a 41% clip is nothing to praise.
And I'm not ragging on him. I said he progressed. But he's still a chucker with a low FG% who can't play defense.
He's best suited coming off the bench. He could be an elite 6th man in the league. That's not an insult.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
Dions per 36 was 18 points, 4 rebounds and 3 assists. That's not exactly scrub numbers for a rookie. You don't put him on the bench unless you really trust everyone else's ball handling.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
Dions per 36 was 18 points, 4 rebounds and 3 assists. That's not exactly scrub numbers for a rookie. You don't put him on the bench unless you really trust everyone else's ball handling.
Too many people look at PPG and think it tells a story. There are a ton of 2's in the NBA who can score 14-18 if you let them gun. That doesn't mean it's a positive. You can find that anywhere.
You know who else averaged 18 per 36 on 41% shooting? Ricky Davis. You want him as your starting 2?
Not to mention ... if a guy scores 30, but gives up 35, that's not a recipe for success. Go through our box scores this year ... average SG's lit him up.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
So do you want player efficiency ratings? Do you want % on when he posts someone up? Do you want numbers on how and where he scores at the top of the key? Do you want his numbers on the baseline? How about the paint? Do you want numbers on his strong and weak sides? How he finishes with his left and right hand? Is he getting to the free throw line? How well he does in fast break? Does he take pressure off his teammates when he shoots? What numbers are you looking for besides field goal %?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 857
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 857 |
question if we are his best chance at winning a ring in the next4 years why would he not sign with us?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 857
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 857 |
candy man i dont know if you are old enough but does he move better than larry bird?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
Quote:
candy man i dont know if you are old enough but does he move better than larry bird?
Anthony Bennett is a big boy but moves incredibly well for his size, so yes
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,569
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,569 |
In the playoffs, Bosh put up the following totals:
9, 7, 7, 5, 9, and 0. Yeah, he disappeared at times. Except for one of those games in which he grabbed 9 boards, he didn't contribute in that regard either. Luckily for him his teammates bailed him out and the heat went 3-3 in those games. Out of 23 games, in 6 he was hardly a factor at all.
I think that Bosh is a good player, but I do not necessarily think that he is a great player. He's a decent 3rd option ..... but not some spectacular one. He's certainly not a player to build a franchise around, and he is a 3rd option at best on the heat. On many nights he is the 4th option, behind Lebron and Wade ..... and maybe Ray Allen as well.
Once more, I cannot remember the last great player to score 0 points in a vital game 7 in the NBA playoffs, especially in game 7 of the finals.Only once was he the 3rd leading scorer for his team. Most games he was the 4th option on his team. He is a good player, but I don't consider him a great one.
I have to laugh when you berate my looking at stats ..... only to use stats to try to bolster an argument. Looking at Harrison, he is a strong offensive Center. We have a guy like Andy who could be that strong defender off the bench. I like having a good offensive player as the starter, and a defensive stopper type as the backup. Andy is that, plus a decent offensive game.
Coaching can make a huge difference defensively. Again, I look back to the days of guys like Damon Jones and Dontell Marshall .. and we actually ran good defense.
Did you know that we allowed only 95.1 PPG in 2009? (Browns last season before being fired) We were the 5th best team in points allowed.
Who were the players on that team, beside Lebron?
Hickson, who didn't give a damn about defense, and still doesn't. We had Z and Shaq, at the end of their careers. We had Antwan Jamison, Daniel Gibson, Mo Williams, Delonte West, Anthony Parker ..... a couple of whom were decent defensive players, but no one a real lock down type.
Nonetheless, we still stopped teams.
We were the best defensive team in 2008-2009. Who were the premium defenders on that team? (Besides Lebron) Gibson? Hickson? Z? Darnell Jackson? Tarance Kinsey? Sasha Pavlovic? Wally Szczerbiak? Joe Smith? Andy? Delonte West? Mo Williams? Jawad Williams? Lorenzen Wright?
Hell, I'll give you Ben Wallace. Sure he was 34, and on the decline, but he was probably still our 2nd best defender.
That team was the best defensive team in the NBA.
Yeah, I think that coaching is a huge piece. Sure you need players with talent and abilities ..... but coaching can turn even below average players into solid defenders.
As far as Karasev, I have said that he needs to add weight. However, he can still be an effective piece. A guy like James is going to be doubled on many plays anyway. We have one of the better defensive SF in Gee .... he's almost certainly a top 10 defender at his position anyway ..... and James still put up 30 on him when we played the Heat back in November. He put up 28 against us (and largely Gee) in February. James put up 25 against us in March, in Cleveland. James was held scoreless in April in Cleveland. Sure James didn't play ...... but does that really make a difference.
Gee is one of the better defenders in the league. He still got destroyed by James. Anyone playing James will take a beating trying to defend him. Those superstars are going to get theirs no matter what you do to stop them. You have to just just try to minimize the damage. I think that the Cavaliers can do that with Karasev and help just as they can with Gee and help.
I should ask you how many times you watched Karasev's games.
I love the way you deride the use of stats, then use stats to run down Waiters. He scored 14 PPG at 41%. As a rookie, James scored 20 PPG ...... on 41% shooting. Bosh, playing down low, scored 11 PPG as a rookie on 45% shooting. Wade scored 16 on 46% shooting. All 3 players improved their games. Why is it that you relegate Waiters to the bench? hell, Ray Allen, one of the better shooters in the league, shot 43% as a rookie.
Dion needs to play the game he is best suited for, and to make better decisions. However to say that he is a backup at best after a pretty damn decent rookie year is ridiculous. Bradley Beal, whose game many love, shot 41% last year as a rookie. Lillard, with a great rookie season, shot at a 43% clip.
Guess what? Rookies develop over time.
Who were the scoring options on the Cavaliers last year? Irving missed time with injuries. Andy was out for most of the year. Gee isn't a strong offensive contributor. Tristan developed nicely over the course of the season. Who else was there?
I think that Waiters will be a very good SG. His biggest problem is that he prefers the ball in his hands, as does Irving. That can still be worked out. I also think that he will be, at least, an average defender this coming season. He's not the 6'6" off Guard that Brown prefers .... but I think that he'll be a much improved defender this coming season.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Cavs, NBA Draft, Trades and Free
Agency
|
|
