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In response to YTown's article...I'd love to have Pekovic if the price is right.
re: Rudy Gay...no thanks. He's a solid piece but not a difference maker. His price tag makes him unattractive.
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I think I'd be okay with including Tristan in a trade to acquire Pekovic.
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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I'd rather include Andy.
That would still leave us room to add another max deal ... either next year. or in a trade ..... without having to clear cap space.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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 Karasev.
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If you're a sabermetrics guy then you wouldn't want Rudy Gay.
I'll defer to PDR on this one but I remember a Bill Simmons podcast that looking at the numbers that Rudy Gay might be the worst player in the NBA. Like dumbfounded that anyone would want him on their team.
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Is there are more tired take when it comes to the Cavs and Lebron then the whole "The Cavs didn't do enough to surround Lebron with talent"
It's old, tired, and not really all that true.
There may have been some things Danny Ferry could have done differently, but not much, and please don't tell me you thought Amare Stoudemire would have somehow helped us win a ring and keep Lebron around. That's all assuming that the deal was really that close, which it probably wasn't.
I heard a guy yesterday actually call a radio station and say Lebron left because Dan Gilbert didn't want to spend the money to bring in superstars. I just don't get it. He then rattled off why they won't be any good because they aren't going to buck up for Al Jefferson and Andre Iguodala.
Because nothing says superstar like Andre Iguodala and Al Jefferson.
And nevermind all the years we were over the cap because of the money they spent in 2006, and again in 2008 to bolster the team, and again in 2010 to absorb Jamison's atrocity of a contract.
Man, I love Cleveland fans, but some of them like to just revise history, and as far as the general non Cleveland sports fan, nothing throws a blanket over something like "well the Cavs didn't do enough to surround Lebron to keep him in town".
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My recollection is that top free agents wouldn't commit to Cleveland because LeBron wouldn't commit to Cleveland. Am I wrong?
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that was the story I heard
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Legend
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My recollection is that top free agents wouldn't commit to Cleveland because LeBron wouldn't commit to Cleveland. Am I wrong?
Yes, there's that. He would not commit long term in the 2 years leading up to 2010(which he could have) that definitely hurt their chances.
People forget the league is also set up for the home team to be able to pay more, so there would have had to of been a S&T on the table.
The Cavs spent a ton of money while they had Lebron, and were always well over the cap. Dan Gilbert's detractors seem to always forget that. He was paying dollar for dollar everything about that luxury line.
I think if you ask most, that Heat trio was in the bag for a while. Maybe not the final decision, but you can't deny that some legwork by the players and the Heat organization was put in.
There really wasn't anything they could do. It just annoys me when these idiot fans come and revise history to fit their horrible arguments.
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BUT NO GUYS, THE CAVS SHOULD HAVE MADE THAT DEAL WITH THE LAKERS, IRA NEWBLE, DAMON JONES, AND OUR FIRST ROUND PICK FOR KOBE BRYANT.
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Dude, it worked when I plugged it into the Trade Machine.
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Quote:
Dude, it worked when I plugged it into the Trade Machine.
Did you do the Bill Simmons?
Cavs get:
Bryant, Kobe SG
Lakers get:
Jones, Damon PG/SG
Newble, Ira SF
Who says no?
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DAAAAAMOOOOOONNNN JONES DAMON JONES DAMONJONNEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Seriously though, Ira Newble's socks.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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Quote:
If you're a sabermetrics guy then you wouldn't want Rudy Gay.
I'll defer to PDR on this one but I remember a Bill Simmons podcast that looking at the numbers that Rudy Gay might be the worst player in the NBA. Like dumbfounded that anyone would want him on their team.
I think worst player in the NBA is a bit much, but he's certainly in the running for worst contract.
Averages about 18 points over 36 minutes. He likes to shoot the ball to the tune of 16-17 attempts a game, and his percentages hover between 40-45%. He doesn't get to the free throw line. Not a great rebounder. Below average from beyond the arc. Doesn't distribute. Easily baited, as he tries to force it and is predictable doing so.
His contract is roughly 2 years, $37.2 million.
Anybody want this guy?
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Here's a curve ball: Brad Stevens is gonna coach the Celtics 
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To touch on something Spergeon said. I've noticed a trend from non Cavs fans. It is a pretty easy position to be in when you cannot provide alternate options for the different scenarios going on. They are not adding anything and just leaving things open so they can say I told you so either way.
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Yeah, Gilbert went over the cap for what .... 4 or 5 straight years?
I agree with you about the Heat. The rapid manner in which the whole "3 Amigos" came together does indicate that the fix was in with regards to Miami. If anyone knows how to work all of the back door deals, it's Riley. From what I have read, I would guess that originally Lebron tried to recruit Bosh to Cleveland, but when he wouldn't come, then it became more important to James to play with Bosh and Wade somewhere than to stay in Cleveland. Once Bosh said that he wasn't coming, James was leaving. I don't think that was "decided" after Lebron's final season in Cleveland, and it was obvious that James checked out before he left. Can't win a championship and then leave using trying to win a championship as a justification after all.
Bleh
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Sporting News reports Cavs sign Earl Clark to 2-year deal worth $9 million, the second year being a team option.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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Great deal for the Cavs. Clark might have just been good because of D'Antoni's system.
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Great signing. We either underpay him for 2 years or slightly overpay for 1. The team option is awesome. I think he will start at SF.
Irving/??? Collison maybe
Waiters/Miles
Clark/Gee
Thompson/Bennett
Varejao/Zeller
Pretty solid 10 man rotation
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Let's just hops Mike Brown can get them to play some form of defense.
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I wonder if he's going to be part of the SF picture, or one more body jammed into the logjam at PF?
It was reported that Browns wanted a couple of Stretch 4s for his rotation. This makes us 5 deep iat PF/C. (and maybe also a piece at SF, who knows?)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Earl Clark is a defensive Lamar Odom. He can play SF, PF, and C sparingly.
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Yep. I've seen plenty of Earl Clark living out here. Streaky shooter. Can cause defensive problems. Lets smaller players get by him too easily. Nice player overall. Good signing.
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Quote:
Is there are more tired take when it comes to the Cavs and Lebron then the whole "The Cavs didn't do enough to surround Lebron with talent"
Seriously though! I should probably register the domain "thecavsdidntdoenoughtokeeplebron.com" and give the full explanation of why they did everything humanly possible, within league rules and salary constraints to keep Lebron in Cleveland. That way, when people bring up the stupid argument, I can just tell them to go there, rather than having to explain it over and over. 
As far as blaming Gilbert ... I told you it would happen. Years ago, everyone chided Lerner and Dolan for being cheapskates and wishing they would be more like Gilbert. I said, just wait till Gilbert gets a few losing seasons under his belt, and people stop showing up to the games ... sure enough, now he's the cheapskate and terrible owner.
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Irving/??? Collison maybe
Waiters/Miles
Clark/Gee
Thompson/Bennett
Varejao/Zeller
My co-worker (who is a Heat fan from Nigeria via Florida) thinks the Cavs should sign Jarrett Jack.
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Quote:
Quote:
Is there are more tired take when it comes to the Cavs and Lebron then the whole "The Cavs didn't do enough to surround Lebron with talent"
Seriously though! I should probably register the domain "thecavsdidntdoenoughtokeeplebron.com" and give the full explanation of why they did everything humanly possible, within league rules and salary constraints to keep Lebron in Cleveland. That way, when people bring up the stupid argument, I can just tell them to go there, rather than having to explain it over and over.
As far as blaming Gilbert ... I told you it would happen. Years ago, everyone chided Lerner and Dolan for being cheapskates and wishing they would be more like Gilbert. I said, just wait till Gilbert gets a few losing seasons under his belt, and people stop showing up to the games ... sure enough, now he's the cheapskate and terrible owner.
Well he did what he was supposed to do, which was tank. I'm against tanking for next year, but it wouldn't be the worst thing if it happened.
I just don't think it's wise to bank on us getting #1 next year. Even if you tank and finish the worst, that still only gives you a 20-25% chance at getting the pick, and if you believe in the law of averages, then we probably aren't getting the pick based on our recent past.
I'm not really putting a ton into the Cavs and FA. I really think they are better off trying to get better via trades. Overpaying for some of these guys and still managing the cap won't get us closer to legitimate contention. The Earl Clark signing is fine, but that's a low key signing.
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How many top-4 draft picks do we need to be competitive?
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Does anyone know what the difference is, like per million, in playing in a state that doesn't have an income tax?
I think the thing that never gets mentioned is that pro athletes actually have to pay taxes in every state they play in. I'm not sure how it works, but someone actually told me that a while back, that when you play a road game in so and so city, you have to pay state taxes for whatever state that is.
I just can't see how it's that much of a difference. I'm sure they save, but can anyone say how much savings it really is?
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For Ohio, it's almost 6% for state if you have a large income. Add in municipal taxes as well.
So, assuming what you're stating is true, half your games would go taxed or untaxed based on the state, so it would be a 3% swing {using Ohio as the example}.
Last edited by clevesteve; 07/05/13 10:50 AM.
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Interesting. The thing that gets me is that the media uses this like it's this HUGE deal.
You all think Lebron goes to Miami in 2010 if they have a state income tax? I do. It's nice bonus, but that's not why Lebron went down there.
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Warriors are trying to get D12, but need to dump a ton of salary. We would make a lot of sense.
Bogut + Jefferson + Barnes
Cavs currently at just under $38m guaranteed. Bogut + Jefferson + Barnes = $28m (ish)
Salary cap at $58.5m - meaning Cavs would need to send $7m back to GS. We only have $4m or so in non-guaranteed salaries to trade (Miles, Quinn, Jones).
Gee would have to be parked somewhere, and GS wouldn't want him (they need every dollar for Howard). Not sure who would want a backup SF that also has cap space (as we couldn't take anything back).
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Quote:
I should probably register the domain "thecavsdidntdoenoughtokeeplebron.com" and give the full explanation of why they did everything humanly possible, within league rules and salary constraints to keep Lebron in Cleveland.
While I think the 'Cavs didn't do enough' argument is greatly exaggerated, so is what you're arguing.
Ferry's tenure here as GM wasn't very good. It wasn't terrible, either. But he was a one step forward, two steps back type guy. Yeah, he inherited a complete trainwreck. Not easy to step up and find you don't have a first rounder because of Jiri Welsch.
But trying really hard doesn't get you a trophy.
Ferry's best move was trading Joe Smith and Damon Jones for Mo Williams.
That, sadly, isn't enough.
You can say what you will about LeBron's actions tying a hand behind our back, but Ferry had a pretty wide window to do his thing, and he couldn't put it together.
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Quote:
Warriors are trying to get D12, but need to dump a ton of salary. We would make a lot of sense.
Bogut + Jefferson + Barnes
Cavs currently at just under $38m guaranteed. Bogut + Jefferson + Barnes = $28m (ish)
Salary cap at $58.5m - meaning Cavs would need to send $7m back to GS. We only have $4m or so in non-guaranteed salaries to trade (Miles, Quinn, Jones).
Gee would have to be parked somewhere, and GS wouldn't want him (they need every dollar for Howard). Not sure who would want a backup SF that also has cap space (as we couldn't take anything back).
Should have just drafted Barnes. Oh well. I'd be surprised if GS traded him even to get Howard. But then, I'm just a casual fan.
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Quote:
Quote:
I should probably register the domain "thecavsdidntdoenoughtokeeplebron.com" and give the full explanation of why they did everything humanly possible, within league rules and salary constraints to keep Lebron in Cleveland.
While I think the 'Cavs didn't do enough' argument is greatly exaggerated, so is what you're arguing.
Ferry's tenure here as GM wasn't very good. It wasn't terrible, either. But he was a one step forward, two steps back type guy. Yeah, he inherited a complete trainwreck. Not easy to step up and find you don't have a first rounder because of Jiri Welsch.
But trying really hard doesn't get you a trophy.
Ferry's best move was trading Joe Smith and Damon Jones for Mo Williams.
That, sadly, isn't enough.
You can say what you will about LeBron's actions tying a hand behind our back, but Ferry had a pretty wide window to do his thing, and he couldn't put it together.
Exapnd on this please.
If your hands are tied because a) its hard to recruit to Cleveland to begin with and b) your best player won't help in the process ... what other options are there? There are a series of posts before yours implying that the Cavs did everything they could given the constraints they had to work with. Your post seems to imply otherwise. Why do you feel this way?
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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He did about as well as I'd expect for the GM of a team that was perpetually in the luxury tax and had no draft picks, with the added requirement of having to placate one of the best players in the world.
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Quote:
Yeah, Gilbert went over the cap for what .... 4 or 5 straight years?
I agree with you about the Heat. The rapid manner in which the whole "3 Amigos" came together does indicate that the fix was in with regards to Miami. If anyone knows how to work all of the back door deals, it's Riley. From what I have read, I would guess that originally Lebron tried to recruit Bosh to Cleveland, but when he wouldn't come, then it became more important to James to play with Bosh and Wade somewhere than to stay in Cleveland. Once Bosh said that he wasn't coming, James was leaving. I don't think that was "decided" after Lebron's final season in Cleveland, and it was obvious that James checked out before he left. Can't win a championship and then leave using trying to win a championship as a justification after all.
Bleh
I had read or heard that Bosh would have come to Cleveland if thats what LeBron wanted. Which version is true? Judging from Bosh's personality and demeanor he's definitely a follower. I imagine he would have done whatever LeBron wanted him to do.
I had also read that the three of them became thick as thieves during one of the Olympics or World Games and had committed to playing with each other. Wade is definitely the most head strong of the three. As the King of Miami ...he is considered a God there ...most still like him better than LeBron ...at least those that followed the Heat since their inception...there was no way he was leaving Miami.
I think Bosh would have come to Cleveland if thats what LeBron wanted but Wade wanted them both in Miami and LeBron ultimately deferred to that.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Wade said during the 2010-11 season that there was absolutely nothing Lebron could've said to him that would've convinced him to go to Cleveland.
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Quote:
Quote:
Warriors are trying to get D12, but need to dump a ton of salary. We would make a lot of sense.
Bogut + Jefferson + Barnes
Cavs currently at just under $38m guaranteed. Bogut + Jefferson + Barnes = $28m (ish)
Salary cap at $58.5m - meaning Cavs would need to send $7m back to GS. We only have $4m or so in non-guaranteed salaries to trade (Miles, Quinn, Jones).
Gee would have to be parked somewhere, and GS wouldn't want him (they need every dollar for Howard). Not sure who would want a backup SF that also has cap space (as we couldn't take anything back).
Should have just drafted Barnes. Oh well. I'd be surprised if GS traded him even to get Howard. But then, I'm just a casual fan.
Barnes got to play alongside 3 really solid offensive options in Curry, Lee, and Thompson. He got to come in and be the 4th piece of the puzzle, rather than being counted on to be the 1st or 2nd most important piece on offense. He has a solid rookie year, but was hardly a scoring dynamo. (though he did step it up big in the playoffs)
He has nice size for the position, and has decent quickness. He does possess a well rounded game, and can score from a variety of spots on the floor. He's not a great ball handler though, which will always hold him back some.
We also would have had to forgo Waiters to get Barnes. I like Waiters' potential. I think that he could be a 20 PPG player, and he is an exceptional ball handler. As long as Waiters stays out of the "3 point hero" mode, then he should become quite a nice player for us.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I should probably register the domain "thecavsdidntdoenoughtokeeplebron.com" and give the full explanation of why they did everything humanly possible, within league rules and salary constraints to keep Lebron in Cleveland.
While I think the 'Cavs didn't do enough' argument is greatly exaggerated, so is what you're arguing.
Ferry's tenure here as GM wasn't very good. It wasn't terrible, either. But he was a one step forward, two steps back type guy. Yeah, he inherited a complete trainwreck. Not easy to step up and find you don't have a first rounder because of Jiri Welsch.
But trying really hard doesn't get you a trophy.
Ferry's best move was trading Joe Smith and Damon Jones for Mo Williams.
That, sadly, isn't enough.
You can say what you will about LeBron's actions tying a hand behind our back, but Ferry had a pretty wide window to do his thing, and he couldn't put it together.
Exapnd on this please.
If your hands are tied because a) its hard to recruit to Cleveland to begin with and b) your best player won't help in the process ... what other options are there? There are a series of posts before yours implying that the Cavs did everything they could given the constraints they had to work with. Your post seems to imply otherwise. Why do you feel this way?
I'm not saying they didn't do everything they could. I'm saying that their best wasn't good enough.
Ferry wasn't as awful of a GM as he's made out to be, but he isn't just a hamstrung victim of LeBron's whims, either.
He had a huge chip in Wally Szczerbiak's expiring contract in 2009. That's the reason we took him on in a trade, to eat some salary and have a nice expiring deal for bait.
To be fair to Ferry, Wally was playing pretty well when the time came to make a move. His decision to stand pat was understandable, and it's not his fault Wally had a terrible playoffs and the Magic shot lights out. But Ferry had a tendency to stand pat and/or overvalue his roster.
The next year he panicked and set out to build a roster completely designed to beat the Magic. Problem was we never got to see them. You can blame that on LeBron mailing it in, but Ferry always had a penchant for tailoring rosters with a certain opponent in mind.
Another dirty little secret that no one wants to acknowledge out of respect... but Ferry hamstrung himself a bit with that contract he gave Z. It was a huge risk, and while Z played admirably and remained remarkably healthy, he didn't warrant that contract. He wasn't a game changer.
With that said, I would've done it again, too, but that's more out of love for Z than it is a desire to have won a title.
Again, I'm not saying that the Cavs didn't try ... but it's not like they set the table for LeBron and he just chucked the food. They didn't do well with the opportunities they had. Were they hamstrung a bit? Sure. But did they have a lot of things going their way that other franchises don't? Yes.
The bottom line is that the Cavs didn't do enough to keep LeBron around. I don't think it was for a lack of trying. But that's a fact.
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