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Lol no doubt.
I was against the deal at first, I had it in my head that the Cavs would have to grossly overpay to get him. But it's definitely a team friendly deal, looking forward to November.
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Irving/Jack
Waiters/Miles
Clark/Gee (or Gee/Clark)
Thompson/Bennett
Bynum/Varejao/Zeller
Not too shabby.
Potentially awesome, and potentially many visits with the team Dr.
I don't know exactly how Bynum/Thompson/Clark would work in terms of floor spacing, and Gee isn't an NBA-caliber starting 3.
We still have a gaping hole at SF, but Rome wasn't built in a day.
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The other team isn't scoring with tha t line-up either. Man, be happy. Risks are mitigated. Worst case is we threw away some money
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What do you think of Andrei Kirilenko?
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I think the Cavs have a TINY shot at signing LeBron next off season ... I mean very tiny. But IMO, this signing HAD to happen in order for LeBron to be lured. As you said, our one glaring hole is at SF. With the team we have now AND if Bynum returns to form ... this literally would be LeBron's best choice.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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The other team isn't scoring with tha t line-up either.
Huh?
That line-up will be scored on. Badly.
Mike Brown has his work cut out for him on that end, but that's his bag.
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Man, be happy. Risks are mitigated. Worst case is we threw away some money
I didn't say I was unhappy.
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I think the Cavs have a TINY shot at signing LeBron next off season ... I mean very tiny. But IMO, this signing HAD to happen in order for LeBron to be lured. As you said, our one glaring hole is at SF. With the team we have now AND if Bynum returns to form ... this literally would be LeBron's best choice.
Lots of what ifs. Too many days between now and then to really predict.
If Bynum stays healthy and fits in...
I Thompson and Waiters continue to develop.
If Irving takes the next step, which includes playing most nights.
If Bennett turns out to be the right pick?
That team + Lebron would be better than the Heat and what hey have now, and who knows how they are going to shape that roster next year. There are going to be some very tough decisions down there.
Me? I can't wait to see how everything plays out. Lebron or no, we're moving on with our rebuild.
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All of those IFs is why I think we have a very tiny chance to land LeBron ... but we needed Bynum to keep that slim chance IMO.
Even if Bynum returns to form, we still would not be able to beat Miami/Brooklyn/Chicago/Indiana IMO.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Well....... I love this signing, especially with the terms of the deal.
If Bynum does a great job for us this year, then we pick up his option, and should still be able to sign a max free agent.
If he flops, then we can decline his option, and still have a ton of cap space.
Nice (damn near) no risk move.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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PDR brought up a good point about floor spacing. We really need a 3 point shooter at SF. Anthony Bennett will be lethal with his midrange game though. He is a perfect offensive compliment for Bynum.
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PDR brought up a good point about floor spacing. We really need a 3 point shooter at SF.
Anthony Bennett will be lethal with his midrange game though. He is a perfect offensive compliment for Bynum.
You would almost think that they planned this, or something.  lol
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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PDR brought up a good point about floor spacing. We really need a 3 point shooter at SF.
Anthony Bennett will be lethal with his midrange game though. He is a perfect offensive compliment for Bynum.
You would almost think that they planned this, or something. lol
While that's a terrible plan, at least they haven't exactly gone all-in. Got to give Grant & Co. credit there.
Let's hope we've got a good Plan B in place.
Clark is a 4 masquerading as a 3. He can be effective playing some minutes there, but not many, especially given our projected frontcourts. Just because a guy has versatility doesn't mean you can start him anywhere.
And Gee isn't a starter, period. His offense is flat-out bad and his defense isn't enough to justify starting him at the 3.
I mean, I get leaving the 3 open and hoping LBJ comes back. You have to take a crack at it. But you shouldn't plan around it too much.
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Well, what I meant was signing Bynum to play off the strengths of the player they just drafted in the 1st round. (Bennett) They also added a wing in Earl Clark, who can make some outside shots, and is a solid defender. We also have added Karasev, who I like more than you do, and who I think can be a nice piece with some solid outside shooting. I don't see that as a terrible plan. I see that as smart planning. If Bynum is healthy, then he will be an incredible upgrade to the C spot. He knows Mike Brown, and likes playing for him, He had his best season ever under Brown in LA. He also won't have to play 35 minutes/game here, with the depth we have up front. He can be an All Star in Cleveland, with Kyrie and Dion feeding him. Is this a certainty? No. Is it a strong possibility if he is healthy? I believe so. Last year we ended the season this way: (from memory, or a reasonable facsimile) C: Zeller, Speights PF: Thompson, Walton, Jones SF: Gee, Casspi, Miles PG: Irving, Livingston, Quinn SG: Waiters, Ellington, Gibson Right now we line up like this: C: Bynum, Varejao, Zeller PF: Thompson, Bennett SF: Gee, Karasev, Clark PG: Irving, Jack SG: Waiters, Miles, Felix We added depth, plus a potential All Star Center. This is potentially an enormous upgrade. We also get Andy back. Bennett should be a huge upgrade over Walton as the backup PF. I love our frontcourt talent and depth. Sure there is injury risk, but we mitigate that to some extent by virtue of the fact that we can limit minutes for our 2 most injury prone players at the Center position. We can also use Thompson at Center, if needed. Clark can slide to play some PF as well. Huge flexibility here. We lost Speights, and I liked the energy he brought, but Bynum can be a huge upgrade.There are risks here, but potentially enormous upside. SF is no worse than last year. I like the signing of Clark, but more as a defensive type addition than an offensive weapon. Gee is also a defensive presence. I like the potential Karasev brings as an offensive weapon. I see this as an upgrade over last year. Casspi was terrible, and Miles never really fit at SF. He's better as a spot up shooter at SG, and he can get some minutes there now. At PG we have Irving and Jack. I loved having Livingston as a backup last year. He was a real spark whenever he got in the game. He could dish or score. I hate to see him leave. That said, Jack is an upgrade at the backup PG spot, and he can also work some at SG with Kyrie, or even as part of a 3 Guard lineup. I consider this a big upgrade as well. At SG we have Waiters, Miles, and Felix. We lost Ellington, and I think that's a big loss.I would have preferred to keep him and tried to move Miles ... but Miles had the guaranteed deal for this year. (IIRC) Felix will probably see most of his action in the D League, or as a late game defensive substitute. I'd consider this a wash, except that Jack can also play some SG if needed. That makes this an upgrade. I love the plan Grant followed this year. We have tons of flexibility with most of the players we drafted or signed as free agents. We can run tons of different lineups with our top 12 players. We can play 5 different guys at C. We can play 4 different guys at PF. We have 4 different guys capable of playing minutes at SF. 3 different guys can play the point. 4 different guys can play SG. We can play little and quick, or big and strong. We have guys who can play down low, and guys who can stretch. I love the versatility. Am I saying that this is a championship level team? No. If nothing else, the rookies need experience, and the new players need to acclimate to a new team, and new teammates. We'll have 6 new players on this team, and Andy will return after a year off injured. We have to beat the injury bug. Lots of concerns ..... but nice depth at 4 of the 5 positions. (especially at C and PF) This team could be a 7th-8th seed playoff team. Who knows? Maybe they could surprise beyond that. If there are injuries, then we could miss the playoffs again, and that is a concern ..... but this team has talent. To make the 7th or 8th seed, we'll probably have to get to between 38-41 games. (going off of last year) We won 24 games last year. With the upgrades we have made, and greater experience for guys like Kyrie, Dion and Tristan, we should be capable of making a big jump like that. I think that this team can make a huge step forward with the additions we've made. I am excited about this coming year. I think that there are good things in store for all 3 of the main Cleveland teams, starting as soon as this (coming) season. I'm sure that you disagree, and that's your right.I'll remain optimistic regardless.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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We also have added Karasev, who I like more than you do, and who I think can be a nice piece with some solid outside shooting.
I'm not down on Karasev. I just don't understand the impression you have of him. I don't think you've ever seen him play and you're inventing someone based on scouting reports. At this juncture, he shouldn't be counted on anything more than a few minutes-here-and-there catch-and-shoot guy who can provide a little spacing. Maybe you let him out to do more against junk teams, but when you're playing stiff competition, or in the playoffs, he shouldn't be taking off his sweats very much, or at all.
I'm not saying that doesn't hold value or that he can't contribute, but he shouldn't be expected to do more than that. If he does, it's a huge bonus and an anomaly. Also, he probably should be getting those minutes at the 2, not the 3.
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If Bynum is healthy, then he will be an incredible upgrade to the C spot. He knows Mike Brown, and likes playing for him, He had his best season ever under Brown in LA. He also won't have to play 35 minutes/game here, with the depth we have up front. He can be an All Star in Cleveland, with Kyrie and Dion feeding him. Is this a certainty? No. Is it a strong possibility if he is healthy? I believe so.
A happy, healthy, motivated Bynum would pay huge dividends for this team. Unfortunately, those three traits aren't exactly dependable.
Bynum was a monster when he wanted to be that last season in LA, but the key part of that statement is 'wanted to be'. If he didn't get his touches early and often enough for his liking, he shut it down mentally.
And even when he was on... go back and watch that playoff series vs. the Thunder. They won that series exploiting him on the P-n-R.
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This team could be a 7th-8th seed playoff team. Who knows? Maybe they could surprise beyond that. If there are injuries, then we could miss the playoffs again, and that is a concern ..... but this team has talent. To make the 7th or 8th seed, we'll probably have to get to between 38-41 games. (going off of last year) We won 24 games last year. With the upgrades we have made, and greater experience for guys like Kyrie, Dion and Tristan, we should be capable of making a big jump like that. I think that this team can make a huge step forward with the additions we've made. I am excited about this coming year.
I think that there are good things in store for all 3 of the main Cleveland teams, starting as soon as this (coming) season. I'm sure that you disagree, and that's your right.I'll remain optimistic regardless.
I'm not being pessimistic, and, yes, we have legitimate playoff chances now. Health will be a big concern, as well as how Mike Brown plays out his rotations.
We could really use another SF. Doesn't need to be an All-Star or a primary guy but Clark/Gee or Gee/Clark isn't going to cut it on most nights. If Bennett can play there some, that's a plus, but he's limited in that capacity as well.
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What about AK47? Kirilekho would be nice.
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What about AK47? Kirilekho would be nice.
Why not?
I agree with PDR about needing a sniper though. That would really set up nicer considering our new low-post presence, and the abilities of Irving and Waiters.
Between this team and the potential of the Browns, I can't wait for the fall.
I'm not saying either of those teams are winning a championship, but I'm saying after the crap we've all been fed the last few years, it's going to be a breath of fresh air.
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Clark is a 4 masquerading as a 3. He can be effective playing some minutes there, but not many, especially given our projected frontcourts. Just because a guy has versatility doesn't mean you can start him anywhere.
not sure where you got your impression of Clark. on offense, I agree that he's more of a '4', but on defense he's much better at defending SFs. The only link below he isn't significantly better defending SF is his 1 full season in Orlando, which was a mess of a team.
Thinking more on it, Bennett is more of a '3' on offense and a '4' on defense, so perhaps the plan is to try to pair the two together as much as possible and have them flip responsibilities on each end of the floor.
http://www.82games.com/1213/12LAL11.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1112/11ORL10.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1011/10ORL12.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1011/10PHO12.HTM
http://www.82games.com/0910/09PHO9.HTM
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also, Teague has signed a 4yr/$32mil offer sheet with the Bucks. The Hawks have been extremely mediocre in their statements regarding bringing him back. Will be interesting to see if they match (or if they just sign Jennings and the two teams flip them). Mil-Sentinal: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/215015851.htmlin addition, the Bobcats are looking for a sign-n-trade with a favorite of mine (Gerald Henderson). He's probably best at SG, but can play SF. So, we aren't the best fit here: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--bobcat...-044448683.html
Last edited by no_logo_required; 07/11/13 09:29 AM.
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Thinking more on it, Bennett is more of a '3' on offense and a '4' on defense, so perhaps the plan is to try to pair the two together as much as possible and have them flip responsibilities on each end of the floor.
That is actually a really good idea.
Am I perfect? No
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Thinking more on it, Bennett is more of a '3' on offense and a '4' on defense, so perhaps the plan is to try to pair the two together as much as possible and have them flip responsibilities on each end of the floor.
That is actually a really good idea.
Sounds almost like they planned it .........
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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What about AK47? Kirilekho would be nice.
Pretty sure we're out of cap space. I think Bynum's deal counts as $12 mil against the cap if I'm not mistaken.
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What about AK47? Kirilekho would be nice.
Pretty sure we're out of cap space. I think Bynum's deal counts as $12 mil against the cap if I'm not mistaken.
I think I read that they can terminate a few of these non guaranteed contracts. Quinn and I think Miles. I'm not entirely sure, but I did read that the Cavs are interested in Kirilenko.
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What about AK47? Kirilekho would be nice.
Pretty sure we're out of cap space. I think Bynum's deal counts as $12 mil against the cap if I'm not mistaken.
I think I read that they can terminate a few of these non guaranteed contracts. Quinn and I think Miles. I'm not entirely sure, but I did read that the Cavs are interested in Kirilenko.
Let's add it up:
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/cleveland.htm
$28mil (subtract out the 2 non-guaranteed guys in Quinn & Jones)
+12mil (Bynum)
+6mil (Jack)
+4.5mil (Clark)
+~7mil (rookies --- includes Felix though he's technically not guaranteed)
Cavs 13/14 cap number = $57.5mil (maybe be higher with real rookie deals)
NBA '13/14 cap number = 58.769mil
So, all we have left is the $2.5mini-midlevel. Factor in that we would likely only offer AK-47 a 1year deal and it's very doubtful he'd take it.
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I would be surprised if Bynum played 20-30 games for us. There's no risk, but I don't see this working out. Guy has been reported to have degenerative knees. Bynum if healthy definitely would get a max contract, yet could only get 6 million guaranteed, so this is probably his last shot for his career. Philly gave up a boatload for him, and didn't even bother trying to bring him back with a similar deal.. Best case scenario he plays 50 to 60 games.... you would definitely have to rest him on rough patches of games. Hoping for the best.
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That's probably a bit low, but who really knows.
If Vegas offered an over/under on the games Bynum will play in a Cavs uniform in the 13-14 season, what would the number be to generate a 50/50 split in betting?
20.5
40.5
60.5
If each one of those was offered to me I go Over, Over, Under. Right now, I think he plays upper 50's.
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We'll have to see what happens.
I just thought of something interesting/strange.
We were thought to be interested in drafting Nerlens Noel with the 1st overall pick. He has had knee issues. He would be out until December or so. We would have passed on Bennett to take him.
Instead we drafted Bennett. We then added a guy we can really afford to limit to 15-25 minutes if we have to. We can limit Bynum and Varejao to 15-25 minutes, and play Zeller the rest of the way. We can also play Thompson at Center in a smaller lineup with Bennett at PF. We have a ton of flexibility, and can be careful not to overdo things with Bynum and Varejao. Maybe one day Bynum plays a few more minutes, then Varejao plays a few more the next night.
I like the options with Bennett and Bynum far more than I would have liked a combination of Noel and almost any PF available in free agency. (at least any who would have been interested in coming to Cleveland) Further, Bynum mentioned Cleveland as a team he was interested in last year, so this wasn't just a desperation move on his part. I think that he and Kyrie will make a really nice combination.
Philly fired the GM who traded for him. I think that played a role in Philly not wanting to pursue him at all. Plus, I think that Bynum needs a certain type of coach to rein him in, and get the most out of him. I think that Phil Jackson was that type of coach, and I also think that Mike Brown is as well. The fact that Bynum wants to play for Brown says something. I know that he can be a bit flaky, but there is obviously some respect there.
We'll see how things work out. We could have passed on Bynum and maybe signed a guy like Kirilenko .. but he's 32, and he would probably have to be a 1 year solution .... 2 at best. He also wants $8 - $9 million per year. He opted out of his $10 million option in hopes of getting a long term deal. I don't think that he would sign for just a couple of years ...... and I don't think that I would have wanted to have given him a 3 or 4 year deal. Getting stuck paying a 36 year old player $10 million in 4 years scares the hell out of me. I much prefer Bynum under the terms of his deal.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I think you play Bynum regularly with the occasional second night of a back to back off (playing it by ear), and then once you get past the all star game, you start planning out what nights to rest him.
I don't really care a lot of about the total games he misses. I'm more concerned with the amount of games he misses because he can't play.
If Mike Brown sits him 15 games during the season, how many more does he miss? That's where I worry.
Hopefully if there is one thing Mike Brown learned from those last few seasons in Cleveland, that the NBA season is a marathon and not a sprint (I know, overused baseball cliché) home court is probably overblown a little bit.
I also don't think you need to really be playing well near the end of the year. Any time you have a 7 game series, it's really about what you have, and not what you've done lately.
Kinda different from the NFL, when how you are playing those last few weeks means everything, just ask the Ravens.
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Yeah, you have to play the guy (if he can play).
You're looking at a 7'0 285+ guy with two bad knees that are probably degenerative. You better get a good look at him before you pick up an option.
The odds of Varejao and Bynum making it through the season are not good. But, again, we hedged our bets here. If they both go down, we can just pack it in and tank the rest of the year.
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What do you think of significant minutes with Jack as facilitator and Irving running around screens catching and shooting?
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What do you think of significant minutes with Jack as facilitator and Irving running around screens catching and shooting?
what do you consider significant?
it should definitely be part of our sets. it also should not be our top set (Irving & Andy were a beautiful PnR pairing).
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What do you think of significant minutes with Jack as facilitator and Irving running around screens catching and shooting?
what do you consider significant?
it should definitely be part of our sets. it also should not be our top set (Irving & Andy were a beautiful PnR pairing).
5-10 minutes a night with Irvin handling the ball less but being asked to find areas to catch and shoot. I just find his shooting ability to be nearly that of Curry and I'd like to see him doing more of it while not playing the point.
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What do you think of significant minutes with Jack as facilitator and Irving running around screens catching and shooting?
I would certainly hope to see that, but I guess it depends on what 'significant' means.
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What do you think of significant minutes with Jack as facilitator and Irving running around screens catching and shooting?
what do you consider significant?
it should definitely be part of our sets. it also should not be our top set (Irving & Andy were a beautiful PnR pairing).
5-10 minutes a night with Irvin handling the ball less but being asked to find areas to catch and shoot. I just find his shooting ability to be nearly that of Curry and I'd like to see him doing more of it while not playing the point.
5-10 minutes a night seems perfect.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
j/c ... REALLY like this Bynum deal! Worst case scenerio, Bynum blows his knees walking off the airplane and doesn't play a game. We're out $6 million for a year (which likely wouldn't of been spent on anyone else note-worthy this year anyway), and we're back to tons of cap-space again next year. Best case scenario is that Bynum has a Z-like revival, we get an All-Star center to run pick-and-rolls all day long with Irving, and we look like a very appealing situation to any prospective free-agents that happen to be lurking next year. A very low risk, high reward contract
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
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OP
Hall of Famer
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Well everyone can forget about signing a marquee free agent next year. Some doofus on NBA.com has an article about Lebron, Wade, Bosh and Carmelo all going to the Lakers to play with Kobe. His reasoning is "it's LA".
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186 |
The lakers definitely will get 2 max guys next summer. Will be interesting to see what kind of deal kobe gets. The knicks will be in good shape once amare comes off the books in 2 years. I think if the heat 3 peat, I think Lebron stays to go after a 4th. If not, he will probably opt out, and go to the Lakers, maybe the cavs. If the cavs don't get James, I think Deng or Rudy Gay will be the pick.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882 |
Quote:
Well everyone can forget about signing a marquee free agent next year. Some doofus on NBA.com has an article about Lebron, Wade, Bosh and Carmelo all going to the Lakers to play with Kobe. His reasoning is "it's LA".
If I was either one of those guys, I would be doinng the same thing. Team up again in LA for the LAKERS or go to Cleveland/Milwaukee/etc. by myself.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
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OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
Quote:
If I was either one of those guys
Either one of which guys? I named four.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
Well everyone can forget about signing a marquee free agent next year. Some doofus on NBA.com has an article about Lebron, Wade, Bosh and Carmelo all going to the Lakers to play with Kobe. His reasoning is "it's LA".
couple that with Kobe indicating he won't take a paycut (he makes $30mil) and a likely salary cap of $60mil and you have $30mil for those 4 guys. Sure, I believe they'll each take $7.25mil just for the opportunity to play in front of Jack Nicholson.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882 |
Quote:
Quote:
If I was either one of those guys
Either one of which guys? I named four.
If I was Lebron, Wade, Bosh or Kobe.....I'd be all over building a "super team" in LA over anywhere else in the NBA. That town is "NBA basketball" in my opinion.
And yes, I'm from Cleveland and would tattoo a Cleveland championship banner across my chest if Lebron came back to win one for us. But if a super team possibility for the Lakers comes up, I wouldn't think twice. "Yes" before the rest of the offer comes out (assuming other superstars are coming along).
I grew up watching Showtime and really enjoying that, even though it hurt watching as a Cleveland fan.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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