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Well, mac is right in (at least) one respect: We are certainly weaker now than we were last year. The position is downgraded considerably. Whether or not the new FO could have impacted this differently, is up for debate...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Well, mac is right in (at least) one respect: We are certainly weaker now than we were last year. The position is downgraded considerably. Whether or not the new FO could have impacted this differently, is up for debate...
maybe it is weaker, maybe it isn't. not one game played yet. your don't know. and that is a fact.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Thanks for digging up that article. Maybe it will quiet some of the people who want to revise history and claim all we had to do was sign Phil, but wouldn't.
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We've lost a Pro Bowler and one of the best foul weather kickers ever,and replaced him with a run of the mill veteran and a street FA.To anyone with half a brain that would be a downgrade.
Those instances are fact of life in the modern NFL,every team faces that type of decision.No need to defend the new FO,this has been brewing for a few years and it just so happened it came to head on their watch.
As my old coach used to say,it is what it is.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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We've lost a Pro Bowler and one of the best foul weather kickers ever,and replaced him with a run of the mill veteran and a street FA.To anyone with half a brain that would be a downgrade.
Those instances are fact of life in the modern NFL,every team faces that type of decision.No need to defend the new FO,this has been brewing for a few years and it just so happened it came to head on their watch.
As my old coach used to say,it is what it is.
and until I see a game played, with who takes there place, cant really say. besides we wont be kicking FGs this year. just extra points. 
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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I agree that Phil is/was the better kicker. No question. However, mac likes to call Banner rude names and acts like all the blame for Phil not being here should be thrown at Banner's feet. Well, that is just not true. H and H deserve some of the blame and it seems pretty obvious to me that Phil has wanted out for awhile now.
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Well, mac is right in (at least) one respect: We are certainly weaker now than we were last year. The position is downgraded considerably. Whether or not the new FO could have impacted this differently, is up for debate...
maybe it is weaker, maybe it isn't. not one game played yet. your don't know. and that is a fact.
Check the stats and you will see that they support what I stated. So, in this instance, I DO know...and that is a fact. 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Well, mac is right in (at least) one respect: We are certainly weaker now than we were last year. The position is downgraded considerably. Whether or not the new FO could have impacted this differently, is up for debate...
maybe it is weaker, maybe it isn't. not one game played yet. your don't know. and that is a fact.
Check the stats and you will see that they support what I stated. So, in this instance, I DO know...and that is a fact.
there are no 2013 stats. no games have been played
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Well, mac is right in (at least) one respect: We are certainly weaker now than we were last year. The position is downgraded considerably. Whether or not the new FO could have impacted this differently, is up for debate...
maybe it is weaker, maybe it isn't. not one game played yet. your don't know. and that is a fact.
Check the stats and you will see that they support what I stated. So, in this instance, I DO know...and that is a fact.
there are no 2013 stats. no games have been played
Good gawd!!!.... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I liked Dawson and wish him the best of luck but the dude was a kicker. He may be the best bad weather kicker in the game but he was still just a kicker. At least now we have coaches in place that will look to actually score tds instead of hoping to win games 6-3. I am just sick of the conservative approach to a game that has changed all the rules to open up the field.
If it takes letting Phil walk to get someone in here with the nads to actually go out and play to win instead of playing to lose, I am all for it. Plus kinda cool to have a kicker nicknamed Boogie or atleast a few Bulldog fans called him that lol.
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"Booger" would be even cooler. It sounds more football-y.
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Well, mac is right in (at least) one respect: We are certainly weaker now than we were last year. The position is downgraded considerably. Whether or not the new FO could have impacted this differently, is up for debate...
maybe it is weaker, maybe it isn't. not one game played yet. your don't know. and that is a fact.
Check the stats and you will see that they support what I stated. So, in this instance, I DO know...and that is a fact.
there are no 2013 stats. no games have been played
Good gawd!!!....
He is right though. "On paper" the position is weaker ..... but games aren't played on paper.
When the Eagles (and Banner) let their Pro Bowl Kicker go to the Niners a few years ago, the Eagles were doomed to missed FG, no shot at anything beyond 40 yards, and general misery. That didn't happen though. Instead, in his 2nd year, Akers collapsed. He made only 29 of 42 tries. The team won instead of him, not because of him.
Kickers can go at any time. Like it or not, that risk increases as they get older. Phil does look like a guy who will beat old age, and retire on his own terms, at a ripe old age, rather than being forced out ...... but who knows for certain?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I agree that Phil is/was the better kicker. No question. However, mac likes to call Banner rude names and acts like all the blame for Phil not being here should be thrown at Banner's feet. Well, that is just not true. H and H deserve some of the blame and it seems pretty obvious to me that Phil has wanted out for awhile now.
He did want out, but some people fail to believe that.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Because it's not the truth buddy 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Because it's not the truth buddy
Assuming you are right, (and I do because it's you) it still takes two to tango. During the Heckert/Holmgren Regime, they appeared ready to do what they could and they couldn't get the deal done. At the time he was a 36 year old kicker (still easily one of the best in the game, but 36)
There had to be a limit to what they "SHOULD" have offered him and it would appear it wasn't enough. That's kind of on Dawson isn't it? Do we know what their offer was that he rejected from the former regime?
As for why Banner didn't offer up anything, I honestly don't know for sure, could be he felt that by the time the team was ready to compete, Dawson will have lost his leg. I really don't know.
Could be they had informal talks and the conclusion was that they couldn't get a deal that Banner and Dawson could live with so why bother offering it?
What do you think a two year deal would have cost us? or was that the problem, Dawson wanted more than two and Banner wanted 2 only?
He got a deal from the 49ers for 2.25 mill for one year and a 1 mill signing bonus. 3.25 mill for one year.
What would it have taken to get him to stay?
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Although you seem to have some inside scoop, I think it's pretty telling what Phil said about not wanting to be tagged so he and his family could decide where he wanted to go. He even sold his home here. He must've put his price at a place where he knew they would let him go and couldn't believe it when they tagged him. When he sold his home he thought he was gone.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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Where he wanted to go was assumed by the writer to mean where he wanted to play. It's not what Phil ment. He wanted some long term commitment to keep his family together in Cleveland. He didn't want to keep uprooting his family and moving them around or not know where his kids would be going to school from one year to the next.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Tagged? Which year?
As for the house...his kids were reaching the age of starting SCHOOL. Like any parent he wanted them to be in the same community throughout their Local School experience.
He limited his "CAREER" to retire after the 2015 season.
In 2011 he wanted a 5 year long term contract....instead was tagged.
In 2012 he wanted a 4 year long term contract...instead was tagged.
New Regime:
In 2013 he wanted a 3 year long term contract...there was no real tag option (he could have been but we would have been forced to pay him the average top 5 salary of ANY PLAYER...basically avg salary of top 5 QB...so no option for that TAG.
He didn't wish to leave. He wished to spend the rest of his career here n because it was on his terms. 2015 season then retire, it was not to be.
I have no proof. Nothing written but have heard from reliable sources inside the Building this is how it happened. Not outlandish. I don't think it was our wisest move - letting him go. His leg seemed to have gotten stronger the last 3 seasons. He was very diligent in his conditioning n preparation for the season. I understand AGE variable but not with a kicker...nothing set in stone.
JMHO maybe a little more than opinion.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I understand that and it does make sense. However, don't you think he was a bit over the top on his demands? He had to know that at his age a 3 yr. deal was the most likely. So, he really set himself up to be let go by refusing to even discuss another situation. I understand about the kids and wanting to stay in the same place, but in his business he also knows that nothing is certain. I'm just saying he if really wanted to be here he would have taken the 3 yr. and then finished up in another deal to retire.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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However, don't you think he was a bit over the top on his demands?
Not at all.
1. I think he had PROVEN that he deserved it and he was not peaking as he was getting better n better with every season.
2. In the NFL there are no guarantees...if in year two the bottom fell out of his production due to old/tired legs. He would have been released.
Also with each season. 5, 4, 3 year terms the guaranteed money of course would be reduced.
Again - It might not bite us in the butt. Really only if we make the playoffs and who we got cannot bring it to the table.
That in itself put a sour taste in my mouth...Banner/Lombardi don't think we got a shot to compete this season??? I don't care if its true or not. THAT IS NOT HOW YOU LEAD!..You always believe n do what you cant to make it SO!
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Although I agree with you, hey I liked Phil too. There's a reason that not one, but two FO saw things differently. For whatever reason, Phil put his foot down and would not budge, there for he was willing to take the risk and I do believe he thought he was gone 2 yrs. ago. It is a two way street.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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I have no proof.
Indeed.
Plus, he just signed a 1 year deal with the niners for 2.25 mil.
Why didn't he insist upon a 3 year deal from them to take him through 2015?? We have been paying him more the last 2 years. I am sure we would have signed him to a similar deal as the niners did. He just didn't want to talk to us about 1 year deals.
Sorry, he wanted out. The bottom line is he has maybe 3 years left and he wants a chance at a ring. He didn't feel his window would fit with the Browns.
I don't blame him and will always like him, but he wanted out....as many as 2 years ago.
Sorry man, that is just the way it is.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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im not going to look it up but he also said he wanted to get into coaching ST. where better than SF
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im not going to look it up but he also said he wanted to get into coaching ST. where better than SF
I hadn't heard that. Not saying it isn't so.
I know he does pretty good with his kicking camps back in Texas. Serious HS and college kickers pay good money to attend 3-4 day long camps.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I miss Phil!
Also, it has seemed to be the habit of the Browns to release/not resign a disgruntled player, and that player's team goes to the SB. If you're in Vegas, bet on SF.
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Where he wanted to go was assumed by the writer to mean where he wanted to play. It's not what Phil ment. He wanted some long term commitment to keep his family together in Cleveland. He didn't want to keep uprooting his family and moving them around or not know where his kids would be going to school from one year to the next.
but his kids never got uprooted. they stayed in Steiner Ranch (division inside Austin, Texas) the whole time. heck, that's why he was so excited that we played in Dallas because his family could just drive up for the weekend.
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Plus, he just signed a 1 year deal with the niners for 2.25 mil.
Why didn't he insist upon a 3 year deal from them to take him through 2015?
Aww Peen you just lawyered up on me...lol 
Long term was for 2 things: Texas near home but both teams have kickers.
And Cleveland where he spent almost all of his career n would have loved to finish here.
Once the Browns was not there he was a FA...now his choices was to Retire or sign a contract somewhere that benefited him the most.
2.25 n the best shot to get a SB ring under his belt.
I do not see what is so hard to understand WHY?
Somehow in that Lawyer mentality if he signed for 1 year as a FA with a SB contender that meant he was not asking for a long term contract here (3 years). Again I know what I know...just cause I cannot PROVE it as a fact in a court of law...don't mean it isn't there.
Its rather simple...you can believe me. Or you can claim I am a Liar.
I would hope you know me well enough that I would not lie. Possibly gullible believing certain things as facts over the last couple of years from somebody who works inside the Building??? Who I do believe as truthful. What more can I say. Believe it or NOT...no skin off my back. It doesn't change the fact he is not here.
As for the subject of two kickers.
One has a more powerful leg and not reported as inaccurate with his short kicks (FGs inside 40 yards) just that he doesn't have a history (experience) meanwhile the other has proven to be virtually useless beyond FGs longer than 40.
I truly doubt we will spend a valuable roster spot with two kickers...I see one with an obvious inadequacy. If the young kid does not fall on his face I think he wins the job outright. The facts given to us by the reporter (yes in the Bozo club) deem the worst possible scenario the Clown Browns as they will spend 2 valuable roster spots for one DUTY. Yes, its been done before but the strong leg kicker were VERY inaccurate FG kickers. If this kid is accurate he has the job. He will get his experience on the field...If lets say 6 games into it he can't hit a broadside of a barn...90% sure Graham will be available to come in n get the spot.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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They also stayed in Westlake Ohio as he owned a home here.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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im not going to look it up but he also said he wanted to get into coaching ST. where better than SF
I hadn't heard that. Not saying it isn't so.
I know he does pretty good with his kicking camps back in Texas. Serious HS and college kickers pay good money to attend 3-4 day long camps.
The Browns -- looking to sign players in their mid-20s -- did have a discussion with Dawson's agent, Neil Cornrich, about a new contract. But ultimately the club decided to move on without making a formal offer, and Dawson seized the opportunity to sign a one-year deal with the 49ers, who are coming off their Super Bowl loss to the Ravens last month.
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He's also excited to join a Super Bowl contender and learn more from special teams mastermind Seeley.
"I'm probably going to be involved with football even after my playing days are over," he said. "The opportunity to sit under a guy once again and learn more football from him. ... I think that'll help with the transition. I'm really looking forward to working with him again."
http://www.neilcornrich.com/2013/03/dawson-makes-extra-point-of-saying-bye.html
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But ultimately the club decided to move on without making a formal offer,
Which I have been saying for a long time now.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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But ultimately the club decided to move on without making a formal offer,
Which I have been saying for a long time now.
I agree. Never disagreed. I am just saying we would have had to offer up 3 years where other teams could offer up 1 year.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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But ultimately the club decided to move on without making a formal offer,
Which I have been saying for a long time now.
I agree. Never disagreed. I am just saying we would have had to offer up 3 years where other teams could offer up 1 year.
if he would have retired after 2 and we wouldn't be on the hook for the contract. If he plays in 3 years... we will be kicking ourselves (no pun intended) esp if he is as good as he was last year.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Special teams coordinator Chris Tabor has indicated that he doesn’t expect to keep two kickers, so one job is up for grabs.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Report: Browns could carry two
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