DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Dallas Cowboys release Lawrence Vickers

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clearly banner decided to get rid of dawson because dawson has been a MAJOR problem for our coaches, since 1999.


too often coaches have been handicapped by dawsons superb kicking. Because of this, our coaches have had no interest in scoring touchdowns, but rather, making it to the 35 yard line, and putting points on the board with dawsons clutch leg.


In the interest of winning games, rather than simply getting within 6 points, we decided to go another way.

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First thing you gotta learn about this place, if you are going to be sarcastic, you need to type you message in purple

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I mean do you honestly believe that in Philly Banner didn't have input from others?

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"HONESTLY" before last year I really never heard of Banner...I thought Reid was in control with the Eagles. But now that he is here (Banner) its seems a lot is portrayed that ALL THAT WAS BAD was Banner's decisions. All that was good must have been despite Banner...lol

I thought he had A LOT OF INPUT IN PHILLY FROM REID...and yet the hate article by an obvious author who doesn't respect Banner, has all this on Banner.

I'll pull a Tom Hanks from BIG on this one: "I don't get it?!?"

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There's not really anything more to say about Vickers really. He was a far superior lead blocker to Marecic... as evidenced by making The Ghost look like an all-pro, then putting Hillis on the Madden cover the next season. The question is really "what do we need from our fullback"? If Turner wants another Lorenzo Neal, then he's be about as good a choice as is available (outside the $4 million dollar man Leach.)

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Do you realize how pot/kettle this statement is?

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I look at the Phil Dawson situation and realize Phil fell into the same category as the Eagle players mentioned above (Troy Vincent-2003.... Hugh Douglas-2002,,,, Duce Staley. Brian Dawkins — that one, Dawkins, really hurt.)

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I look at Phil as a guy who forced the Browns to Franchise him twice because he wanted to go play for a ring. Sure he was very professional and said all the right things but actions speak louder than words. Banner was left without a reasonable Franchise tag on him.

He went to a team that lost the Superbowl. Obviously he wants a ring and went to a team that will give him that opportunity. No one is picking the Browns the win the Superbowl.

Before the Browns franchised him the first time he cleaned his locker out said goodbye's to team mates and staff and sold his house. Does that sound like a guy that was going to negotiate with the Browns to stay here? Seriously, I love Phil. I thank him for the years of service. I feel bad that he played nearly his entire career for one of the worst (if not the worst) franchises over the last 13 years. But I just don't think he wanted to stay here and I don't hate him for it. And I'm certainly not going to blame Banner for it.

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clearly banner decided to get rid of dawson because dawson has been a MAJOR problem for our coaches, since 1999.


too often coaches have been handicapped by dawsons superb kicking. Because of this, our coaches have had no interest in scoring touchdowns, but rather, making it to the 35 yard line, and putting points on the board with dawsons clutch leg.


In the interest of winning games, rather than simply getting within 6 points, we decided to go another way.

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josh...welcome to the board...

Your post is so good (sarcastic), it doesn't have to be in a purple font...

Not trying to sign Phil Dawson sends a message to the entire team and believe me, the locker room
"is" paying attention to the actions of Haslam and Banner.

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I look at the Phil Dawson situation and realize Phil fell into the same category as the Eagle players mentioned above (Troy Vincent-2003.... Hugh Douglas-2002,,,, Duce Staley. Brian Dawkins — that one, Dawkins, really hurt.)

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I look at Phil as a guy who forced the Browns to Franchise him twice because he wanted to go play for a ring. Sure he was very professional and said all the right things but actions speak louder than words. Banner was left without a reasonable Franchise tag on him.

He went to a team that lost the Superbowl. Obviously he wants a ring and went to a team that will give him that opportunity. No one is picking the Browns the win the Superbowl.

Before the Browns franchised him the first time he cleaned his locker out said goodbye's to team mates and staff and sold his house. Does that sound like a guy that was going to negotiate with the Browns to stay here? Seriously, I love Phil. I thank him for the years of service. I feel bad that he played nearly his entire career for one of the worst (if not the worst) franchises over the last 13 years. But I just don't think he wanted to stay here and I don't hate him for it. And I'm certainly not going to blame Banner for it.

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free...You can try to paint Dawson as the bad guy in this situation...but I doubt that most buy it...

Haslam and Banner road into Cleveland telling the fans about their commitment to winning...but when the first opportunity came to back up their words with actions...they proved that money is #1 and "winning" is somewhere down the list.

Tell me, based on "actions", do you have any doubt that the SF 49ers are committed to winning a Super Bowl? It is difficult if not impossible to build a Super Bowl caliber team by kicking your best performing players to the curb.

It might take some a while to learn that both Haslam and Banner like to talk in an effort to promote their own image...both are very egotistic. Most of what they say, I take with a grain of salt, filing it in the BS category. I will judge Haslam and Banner on their actions and when their words are not backed up by action...I will point it out.

It might be hard for Banner lovers to admit...but the "bean counter" hasn't changed one bit from the guy who played a major role in destroying the Eagles locker room...money is Banner's #1 concern...NOT WINNING...

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Who is painting Dawson as a bad guy? He wants to win a ring. He only has a few more seasons left in his leg at the most. He is doing what many players across many sports have done. Was Karl Malone a bad guy when he left Utah to play with the Lakers at the end of his career?

During Banner's tenure with the Eagles they were a pretty darn good franchise and pretty much competed for a playoff spot every year. Man that would be a terrible thing here wouldn't it.

Tell me mac, why after the 2010/11 season when Dawson was to become an Unrestricted Free Agent did he clean out his locker and sell his house? Then a few months later the Browns Franchised him. If he wanted to be a life long Brown why didn't he work with the team to sign a multi-year deal.

Then after the 2011/12 season again the Browns had to franchise Dawson to keep him again. Still no negotiation on a Multi-year deal.

And now after the 2012/13 season, this is Banner's first offseason as the Browns CEO, the Browns can only franchise Dawson if they want to pay their kicker Top QB money and Dawson walks. But it's all Banner's fault by your logic.

Your argument is weak and everyone except you sees it.

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Philadelphia Eagles: Time to Say Goodbye to Joe Banner

BY...Ron Pasceri
(Correspondent) on June 11, 2012


The news came bright and early Thursday morning that Joe Banner's time with the Philadelphia Eagles had come to an end. I saw the news from Jeff McLane of the Philadelphia Inquirer via twitter about 90 seconds after I opened my eyes that day.

On a normal day I may have sprinted to my computer to write my thoughts about it, but I was covering the French Open at the time and didn't really have the time to devote to it that I would have liked.

As the day went on and story after story poured in on Banner, I planned on reading them. The funny thing is I never did. I had to drive somewhere and even turned off sports talk radio.

I heard from friends and family and headlines that former players were voicing their negative opinions of Banner. I knew there was probably mostly joy among Eagles fans and scorn from the staunch defenders of the Eagles organization on local message boards.

I knew this was the story that everyone was talking about. I tried to figure out why I wasn't getting a piece of the action when I realized that after all this time I really didn't care.

This time last year I would have been happy. Two or three years ago and I would have been ecstatic. But on Thursday it just didn't matter to me.

Back in December and January, I was sending a lot of negative energy toward the Eagles front office. I thought they mismanaged their roster after the lockout. I felt that they had proven to be incapable of filling holes on defense through the draft. I said it was time for a change of philosophy as soon as possible.

What followed in the coming months was a departure from what I grew accustomed to. There was no haggling over contracts. There were no beloved Eagles unceremoniously sent packing over a few dollars or being on the wrong side of 30.

The draft came and went with almost no complaint from the fanbase. Deserving players received contract extensions and the two pieces of bad energy they had left in the form of Vince Young and Asante Samuel were shown the door.

I wrote about the possibility of a more friendly version of the Eagles a couple months ago and here it was coming to fruition. I know most of this has centered on things not involving Joe Banner, but think about everything that happened this offseason.

Now think of who wasn't visibly involved in any of it.

Joe Banner. Is it a coincidence that the most harmonious, least contentious few months in recent Eagles memory lined up perfectly with the lowest profile Joe Banner has ever kept? I don't think so.

Exactly a decade ago, the Eagles were gearing up after losing to the St. Louis Rams in the NFC Championship game. Fans were full of optimism.

Donovan McNabb was a budding star. The defense was led by elite playmakers in Brian Dawkins, Hugh Douglas and Jeremiah Trotter. Life was good and the team was built to win now and in the future.

In the midst of that happiness was the start of a trend with Joe Banner and his iron fist. His hardball, bargain-basement style cost the team players such as Trotter, Duce Staley, Ike Reese, Carlos Emmons and ultimately Dawkins among many others.


Sometimes they made the right decisions with letting players go but ultimately, especially on defense, they never filled those holes. They lacked leadership and really were never an elite team after the 2004 season ended.

Maybe Joe Banner's smug, condescending demeanor was the last thing to be eliminated. Everything feels positive around this team for the first time in eight years.

Now before I get labeled nothing but a Banner hater, I have to give him his credit. He helped to build the organization into the success it is today. He helped get Lincoln Financial Field built. He was one of the first people in the NFL to figure out how to succeed with the salary cap.

He had some really good qualities and he made his share of positive contributions to the Philadelphia Eagles. What he lacked was a personal touch and he was completely miscast as the face of the franchise for the past decade.

Am I glad Joe Banner is gone? Not necessarily. Am I sad that he's gone? No I'm not. Joe Banner served his purpose and he has been so close to invisible that you could have forgotten he was even here anyway.

Despite all the positive things he did for the organization and in spite of all the resentment I've had toward him over the years, there is one thing we may all be thanking him for in years to come.

I can't believe I'm even thinking of saying this but I'm talking about Howie Roseman. He was Banner's guy. Banner groomed him. I felt for two years that Roseman was part of a problem that would never be solved.


I'm now ready to admit that I may have judged him prematurely. The training wheels are off now and if this offseason is any indication, Roseman knows how to handle the business end of things without pushing ill will into the locker room and onto the field.

Only time will tell and it is still way to early in his career to know for sure what Roseman is or will be. All I can say is that I have a positive view of him, his public persona and the way he handled a really big offseason.

My view of Joe Banner will never change. He rubbed almost everyone in Philadelphia the wrong way and that will always be the way he's remembered. That being said, if Howie Roseman can build a Super Bowl champion, maybe, just maybe, that will be his legacy.

Goodbye Joe. Thanks for helping to lead us out of the dark days of the late 1990s. I won't miss you but I'm not dancing on your grave either. You served your purpose and I wish you luck on helping another football city in need.

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When Jimmy Haslam and Joe Banner had their first opportunity to show that "winning" was their #1 priority in Cleveland...they failed miserably.

When Joe Banner had his first opportunity to show that he finally got "IT"...
....that he understood "WHY" he had been fired in Philly...
...that his "MONEY FIRST", iron fisted negotiating style helped to destroy the Eagles locker room...
...BANNER FAILED MISERABLY !

One story written "Banner acknowledged that he sometimes pushed too hard in negotiations and that some of his tactics made it seem he didn't value cherished players, citing the departure of safety Brian Dawkins as an example."...

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