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Was it the Browns fault that DA never learned how to throw a short pass?
Was it the Browns fault that Winslow tried to be Evel Knievel?
Was it the Browns fault that Charlie Frye completely self destructed?
No. The fault is the players.
Yes, the FO has an influence by not giving them tools to maximize their chances of success and they are held accountable for it by their jobs. Don't believe me?....how many GMs have we had since the return?
Offset is a smart business move and jsut ensures that if the team decides to go a different direction and someone else wants to pick up their investment, that the Browns are let off part of the hook.
Uh, No, No, and No. And you're wrong.
Charlie Frye and Derek Anderson (not drafted by Browns) were not high first round picks, I think sixth and third round - Not near a really good negotiating position for either guy, and neither had a remote chance at offset. Winslow was a solid, maybe premier, TE. Sorry he was stupid, but a really good player and not a bad pick.
The Browns haven't been stupid in the first round for years. I believe a top 10 pick deserves a little somethin, somethin. It's only 4 years, and rookies don't get what they used to get. Let him have a chance to put some ink on a contract.
The Mingo selection is another discussion. I'm not fond of a guy that might not start Game 1.
You're missing the point. You said "don;t blame the players if they can't hack 4 years". I say absolutely blame the players.
Whichever....at the end of the day, offset language doesn;t hurt the player and helps the team. Not having offset language hurts the team and benefits the player who doesn't fulfill expectation.
Which one of those seems the most fair?
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I'm worried about McFadden... There's a lot more riding on him relative to the performance of the defense than Mingo.
Maybe Sheldon Brown will be a late cut! I feel we're going to seriously miss that guy.
we can sign him anyday. noone else signed him.
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Eric Wright was traded to the 49ers, so Carlos Rogers may become available very soon.
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Eric Wright was traded to the 49ers, so Carlos Rogers may become available very soon.
also, yet another ex-Brown on the 49ers.
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McFadden signed per Mary Kay
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Sweeeeeeet. C'mon Bark..... you're the last one. Sign on the dotted line.
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Whichever....at the end of the day, offset language doesn;t hurt the player and helps the team. Not having offset language hurts the team and benefits the player who doesn't fulfill expectation.
Which one of those seems the most fair?
This seems to be a reoccurring theme here.
The problem is, if this is as it appears a league wide trend, it helps all 32 teams, not just the Browns.
There may be many reasons that a player doesn't develop to their full potential and some of those reasons are not the fault of the player.
We've seen it right here on this very board with Weeden. Many feel Shurmer was a poor coach, they drafted a QB not suited for the WCO and on it goes.
I'm not here to agree or disagree with those reasonings, just simply say that people use these reasons for Weededn not looking as good as he "could have/should have".
Would you say that since this FO "projects" that Mingo makes the transition to the 3-4 well, that if he doesn't, that Mingo is fully responsible for that? I mean they drafted a guy #6 overall who hasn't played in this scheme before.
I would have to think that in reality, it may be a blame to be shared and not fall on anyone per say at best.
If this in fact is a league wide trend which it certainly appears to be, no single team including the Browns gain an advantage over the other 31 teams.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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There are people who are not happy unless they are constantly creating some kind of turmoil or conflict. Some just thrive on using their power to screw with people...even when it isn't called for.
...in some, it is a mental sickness that would require professional help...some are beyond help.
Sounds like a certain message board poster I know.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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not sure pit but I don't think its all 32 teams. the problem is just the top 10? not sure pit but was it the 2007 or 2009 draft that had a lot of top 10 busts? thought I read something at one point in time about it?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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great. just 1 more. 
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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First round early picks should be around for a minimum of 4 years. If not, don't blame the players. You need to look elsewhere.
There is a point being missed by some.
The only thing this offset language does is prevents two different teams from paying him for playing for both of them full time when in fact he is only playing for one team.
Once the player signs his original contract he will collect all of the money that contract awards him. There is no scenario where the player loses any of the money from his original, guaranteed contract. He will get it all regardless if he busts and/or is cut and then signs with another team.
Without the offset language the original team gets screwed by paying him the full amount of playing for them when in fact he isn't. The language allows the original team to pay only the difference between his old contract and his new one.
That way the player gets all the money coming to him but no "money for nothing".
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There are people who are not happy unless they are constantly creating some kind of turmoil or conflict. Some just thrive on using their power to screw with people...even when it isn't called for.
...in some, it is a mental sickness that would require professional help...some are beyond help.
Sounds like a certain message board poster I know.
jfan...hey, if you can't handle Vers, avoid him....  
If you care to debate Joe Banner and the history he created for himself...fine...don't believe what I post about the man...try doing some research about his past.
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Cleveland Browns' Barkevious Mingo a no-show on rookie reporting day, but two others sign July 19, 2013 at 9:01 PM, updated July 19, 2013 at 11:47 PM CLEVELAND -- The Browns' 2013 rookie class reported to Berea on Friday -- all except first-round pick Barkevious Mingo. The Browns signed third-round pick Leon McFadden and seventh-round pick Armonty Bryant to four-year contracts Friday, but were still waiting on Mingo to join the rest of his class in the rookies-only portion of camp. The first full-squad practice isn't until Thursday from 4 p.m. to 6:30 p.m., so Mingo still has some time before he's considered a full-fledged holdout. But the Browns still want all the rookies here to get a jump on the playbook and the routine before the veterans join them next week. The holdup in Mingo's contract is still the offset language, which the Browns want and Mingo doesn't. Offset language means the drafting team only has to pay the difference in salaries in the event the player is released before the four-year deal expires and he catches on with a new team. Players want to keep the provision out of their deals so they can collect the full amount of their guaranteed rookie contract regardless of whether they remain with their original team. It's rare for first-round picks to get released before their contracts expire, but it's a sticking point for top-tier players nonetheless. So far, only three top 10 players have signed, and all have kept offset language out of their contracts. In the case of Bryant, if he hadn't signed on time, the Browns may have lost their patience with him and cut ties. As it was, they took a chance on him in the seventh round of the draft out of Division II East Central University in Oklahoma after he was arrested in October for selling marijuana to an undercover police officer. Six days after the Browns drafted him, Bryant was arrested for drunk driving and pleaded no contest. He's still on probation for the marijuana conviction and now has the DUI on his record. He admitted last month at the NFL Rookie Symposium that he had been battling a substance abuse problem before the DUI arrest. Bryant was already skating on thin ice with the Browns, and if he had missed even one day of rookie camp, he would almost certainly have been cut -- either now or before the season. As it is, Bryant (6-4, 265) is a long shot to make the team at defensive end, one of the deeper positions. Two things he has working in his favor are that his position coach, Joe Cullen, who had his own past alcohol-related arrest but now helps young players deal with their issues, has taken Bryant under his wing and believes in him as a person and a player. In addition, Mingo has become close with Bryant and has been helping him stay on the straight and narrow during the off-season. "I’ve cut out going out, I’ve stopped drinking - everything,'' Bryant said last month at the symposium. "I’ve just been sticking myself in a hotel room, me and Barkevious Mingo. He's been keeping me focused and really helping me out through my situation. We go watch a movie, go out to dinner, just get my mind off stuff like that.'' McFadden's on-time arrival means he'll get a jump on his bid to earn the starting cornerback job opposite Joe Haden. The No. 68 overall pick out of San Diego State, McFadden worked primarily with the second-team during organized team activities and minicamp, but hopes to land the starting job in training camp. "The biggest thing is just going out there every day and competing for that spot,'' McFadden said last month at the Browns' youth football camp. "Everybody is competing for that No. 1 spot. So that’s how you sum it up in a nutshell.” McFadden worked behind fifth-year pro Chris Owens and third-year pro Buster Skrine in organized team activities and minicamp. “Those guys are technically vets in the game, and they’re both good players,'' said McFadden. "They're competing for that No. 1 spot just as well. At the end of the day, when the season starts, we’ll find out.” Mingo is confident McFadden is just as good as the premier cornerbacks he played with at LSU: two-time Pro Bowler Patrick Peterson and 2012 No. 6 overall pick Mo Claiborne. “I think he’s looked just as good or better than some of those players,'' Mingo said at the youth camp. "Obviously Pat was a tremendous talent. Mo’s a tremendous talent. But I think Leon could have came in and played at LSU with all the DBs we had. He could have been one of those players. We’ve just got to wait and see.” In the meantime, McFadden has been absorbing all of Haden's wisdom on the position. "Yeah, he’s a great guy,'' said McFadden. "He's given me words of advice on when it’s man coverage, what he does sometimes. So I’ve taken that and pasted it into my game somehow.” McFadden isn't worried about fans' concern over the secondary. "They’ll just have to wait and see during the season,'' he said. "The way I see it, we’re competing in practice and we’ll be a strong and positive secondary.” McFadden started 45 of 51 career games at San Diego State (2009-12). He registered 188 career tackles, eight interceptions, 39 passes defensed, three sacks and a forced fumble. His 39 pass breakups set a school record. McFadden also returned 17 punts for 116 yards (6.8 average), blocked an extra point and returned two of his interceptions for touchdowns. He became the fifth player in school history to be named first-team All-Mountain West Conference three times. web page
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You have to wonder, who in the Browns' front office would attempt to add such language to Mingo's contract?
...everyone knows the answer...JOE BANNER.
There are people who are not happy unless they are constantly creating some kind of turmoil or conflict. Some just thrive on using their power to screw with people...even when it isn't called for.
...in some, it is a mental sickness that would require professional help...some are beyond help.
Now you are saying Banner is mentally ill?
Btw----did you ever respond on the Heckert thread? You know, the one where he had an outrageously high blood/alcohol count. Would you say that makes him more--or less--sane than Banner?
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There is a point being missed by some.
The only thing this offset language does is prevents two different teams from paying him for playing for both of them full time when in fact he is only playing for one team.
Once the player signs his original contract he will collect all of the money that contract awards him. There is no scenario where the player loses any of the money from his original, guaranteed contract. He will get it all regardless if he busts and/or is cut and then signs with another team.
That's a pretty darn big point. Thanks for making it clear. One question-----does the fact that Banner wants that in Mingo's contract indicate that the former is mentally ill?
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You have to wonder, who in the Browns' front office would attempt to add such language to Mingo's contract?
...everyone knows the answer...JOE BANNER.
There are people who are not happy unless they are constantly creating some kind of turmoil or conflict. Some just thrive on using their power to screw with people...even when it isn't called for.
...in some, it is a mental sickness that would require professional help...some are beyond help.
Now you are saying Banner is mentally ill?
Btw----did you ever respond on the Heckert thread? You know, the one where he had an outrageously high blood/alcohol count. Would you say that makes him more--or less--sane than Banner?
vers..."Napoleon Complex/Syndrome"...look it up.
About your IM to me, just why you would send me an IM of old news about Heckert's and Russell's dui arrest, I find a little strange, childish, on your part.
...then you title the IM... "your boy", with the little laughing guy  at the end.
Vers...you may find it very hard to admit...but Haslam and Banner bought a team that just completed the 3rd year of a 5 yr "total" rebuilding plan. The talent on the Browns roster is primarily the work of Holmgren and Heckert...not our new rookies, Banner and Lombardi.
Most of the work and sacrifice took place during those first 3 years as our young team, especially on the offensive side, finished their first year in the NFL, last season.
The nucleus for winning football sits in front of this coaching staff and now it is up to them to develop the talent they inherited. Let's just hope that Haslam, Banner and Lombardi do not screw this up. .
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I sent it to you so you would KNOW how hypocritical I find your posting to be. You dig up stupid articles based on what radio talk show callers have to say about Banner and yet you completely ignore a very real problem regarding Heckert. You don't play fair, mac. Never have. Probably never will. I just want to make sure that you know how underhanded and despicable I think your game is. Does that help explain why I sent you the article, mac? 
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First round early picks should be around for a minimum of 4 years. If not, don't blame the players. You need to look elsewhere.
There is a point being missed by some.
The only thing this offset language does is prevents two different teams from paying him for playing for both of them full time when in fact he is only playing for one team.
Oh, I understand. Now name the Browns player selected in the top 10, or even top 20 of any draft (guys that have a chance at offset) that was released within 4 years. Worrying about the universe comprised of the null set is silly.
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Browns are hurting themselves by demanding offset language and Mingo is hurting himself by missing out on classroom time. There are no winners. Doesnt really matter which side is right or wrong, it is a pointless argument hurting everyone.
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Just checking to see if he signed yet. Heard this was a really close-to-done deal; let's go to camp this year as a TEAM. Holdouts don't seem to have helped us a bunch in the past. And seem to get injured. Get out the lunchbox and bib overalls. It is time to sign up and go to werk!  
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Oh, I understand. Now name the Browns player selected in the top 10, or even top 20 of any draft (guys that have a chance at offset) that was released within 4 years. Worrying about the universe comprised of the null set is silly.
If I made up the idea of offset language and were proposing it as something that should be considered for the inclusion in rookie contracts then I would understand your point better.
But I didn't make it up. Neither did Banner. It was developed by negotiations between the NFL and the NFLPA during their negotiations of the CBA as an option for rookie contracts. So to say it has no merit or deserves no consideration since it's addressing a scenario that can never possibly happen is overlooking something.
So it's not some hair-brained idea based on nothing that ever happened or nothing that could ever happen.
I'm not interested enough to do a web search to find out just how many times this offset language has been included in a rookie contract and then later put into effect once a player has been released and then resigned. My interest has only been in understanding what the offset language means, how it applies and who benefits or loses if it ever comes up. ... and then only because it came up just now with the Browns and the Mingo negotiations.
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One question-----does the fact that Banner wants that in Mingo's contract indicate that the former is mentally ill?
Sorry Vers, but before I could answer your question the mentally ill himself stepped in and responded.
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Browns are hurting themselves by demanding offset language and Mingo is hurting himself by missing out on classroom time. There are no winners. Doesnt really matter which side is right or wrong, it is a pointless argument hurting everyone.
You are correct in that. However, the only time I'll be concerned is if both Banner and Mingo's agent are stubbornly holding their ground and he actually misses reps.
So long as one of them backs-off and Mingo is in camp on time when the vets come in I'll be fine with it. We all know how this stuff runs right down to the wire with first round picks.
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If the offset language is the only stumbling block, just sign him
A) He stinks it up so bad he gets cut within 4 years. But another team says he didn't stink it up, so they sign him. The Browns only pay a potential differential, not the full amount. The big chunk is the guaranteed signing bonus. Suck it up for the year 4 salary. (Highly unlikely, and unprecedented.)
B) The front office/scouts should be held accountable. A top 10 pick and they blow it? Not the players fault as much as the GM/scouts. Why didn't they know he'd suck so bad he's gone within 4 years?
C) He performs well enough to stay on the team for 4 years (as every other top 20 pick since 1999), or is a Pro Bowl candidate. I will die from a heart attack.
Again, I'm not too happy with a top 10 pick that might not start game 1, but you have to pay the man, just on his draft pick. Even if it wasn't the best pick.
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So it's not some hair-brained idea based on nothing that ever happened or nothing that could ever happen.
It's only been a couple of years (2?), and can't think of a player that was a beneficiary. You pick a Jamarcus Russell, you pay the price. (Although he didn't have an offset clause, or another team retarded enough to even sign him.) But it could happen.
I'm just saying in today's market, you need to make this deal. Could it bite you in the butt? Maybe. Will it? Doubtful, unless you sign Jamarcus Russell. Even then, no one else will sign him and you don't take a hit.
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j/c
Thomas Jones NFL Draft: 2000 / Round: 1 / Pick: 7 Arizona Cardinals (2000–2002)
Jamal Reynolds NFL Draft: 2001 / Round: 1 / Pick: 10 Green Bay Packers (2001–2003)
Johnathan Sullivan 2003 / Round: 1 / Pick: 6 New Orleans Saints (2003-2005)
Charles Rogers 2003 / Round: 1 / Pick: 2 Detroit Lions (2003–2005)
Mike Williams 2005 / Round: 1 / Pick: 10 Detroit Lions (2005–2006)
Troy Williamson 2005 / Round: 1 / Pick: 7 Minnesota Vikings (2005–2007)
Adam Jones 2005 / Round: 1 / Pick: 6 Tennessee Titans (2005–2006)
Ted Ginn, Jr. 2007 / Round: 1 / Pick: 9 Miami Dolphins (2007–2009)
Gaines Adams 2007 / Round: 1 / Pick: 4 Tampa Bay Buccaneers (2007–2009)
JaMarcus Russell 2007 / Round: 1 / Pick: 1 Oakland Raiders (2007–2009)
Derrick Harvey 2008 / Round: 1 / Pick: 8 Jacksonville Jaguars (2008–2010)
Vernon Gholston 2008 / Round: 1 / Pick: 6 New York Jets (2008–2010)
Aaron Curry 2009 / Round: 1 / Pick: 4 Seattle Seahawks (2009–2011)
Jason Smith St. 2009 / Round: 1 / Pick: 2 St. Louis Rams (2009–2011)
Rolando McClain 2010 / Round: 1 / Pick: 8 Oakland Raiders (2010–2012)
15 top ten picks that did not make 4 years with the team that drafted them. 2000 to 2010.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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I sent it to you so you would KNOW how hypocritical I find your posting to be. You dig up stupid articles based on what radio talk show callers have to say about Banner and yet you completely ignore a very real problem regarding Heckert.
You don't play fair, mac. Never have. Probably never will. I just want to make sure that you know how underhanded and despicable I think your game is.
Does that help explain why I sent you the article, mac?
vers...everything I post on Banner has a source...you may not like the sources...I can't help that. The stuff I post is either my opinion of sourced...no BS, nothing made up.
I suppose all those sources in Philly just made stories up about Joe Banner...you want convince yourself of that, so be it.
Now, how bout you tell us what the "very real problem regarding Heckert" is ???????
Guy got a drinking problem?...tell us how that affected his draft choices....EXPLAIN YOUR COMMENT !
I believe Tom Heckert was the best GM the Browns have had since 1999.
...again, Haslam and Banner fell into a situation where they bought a team that was already into the 3rd year of a 5 yr "total" rebuild.
IMO, Heckert was fired by Banner NOT based on his performance as the Browns GM.
So now it is up to Joe Banner to finish the last two years of the rebuild and my fear continues to be that Banner will continue the ways that got him fired in Philly...and screw up this great opportunity to finally produce winning, Championship football in Cleveland.
So far, I feel my concerns are warranted based on Banner performance so far, getting rid of one of the very best kickers in the NFL...then signing a well traveled retread in an attempt to fill the position.
Then their is the Browns draft...worst draft the Browns have had since the rebuild began.
...helping the Steelers by trading our fourth round pick to them so they could draft the safety who is expected to be Troy Polamanu's replacement..it was the first time the Browns did anything to help the Steelers since May 14, 1968 ...then Banner foolishly proclaimed that HE PREFERS TO TRADE WITH THE DIVISION.
Vers...maybe you can tell us how many NFL franchises go out of their way to help division rivals build a better football team??
Many have attempted to smear lipstick on Banner, supporting his draft, but most around the NFL gave the Browns low marks for their draft performance, earning the lowest grades since the rebuild started in 2010.
I will judge Joe Banner based on his past performances as well as how he conducts business for the Browns. Those who fall in love with the little guy based on his ability to "talk"...consider this...talk never won a championship.
Banner's words are meaningless to me and until Banner actually proves that he knows football and the football side of the franchise...I will continue to fear that Banner is going to screw this opportunity up.
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I suppose all those sources in Philly just made stories up about Joe Banner...you want convince yourself of that, so be it.
Now, how bout you tell us what the "very real problem regarding Heckert" is ???????
Guy got a drinking problem?...tell us how that affected his draft choices....EXPLAIN YOUR COMMENT !
You claimed that Banner has a mental illness. That is absurd. A man w/a drinking problem is far more likely to have a mental illness issue than one who tries to save his employer money.
Banner's teams in Philly were successful. Heckert's teams in Cleveland were not. Your argument is pathetic.
I am actually glad you don't like Banner. You have been wrong on almost every issue we've argued in the last decade. That's a good sign for us Brown's fans.
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So you're saying If Mingo gets cut and signs. or, traded, to the Titans in 2014 and he doesn't have offset language in his contract. That would mean the Browns are paying a guy who is wearing a Titans uniform who is also getting a check from the Titans. That's not fair!  player fighting for that deal. 
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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So you're saying If Mingo gets cut and signs. or, traded, to the Titans in 2014 and he doesn't have offset language in his contract.
That would mean the Browns are paying a guy who is wearing a Titans uniform who is also getting a check from the Titans.
That's not fair! player fighting for that deal.
that wouldn't bother me but if pukesburgh or the ratbirds got him and we ended up paying him to play for them..........
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Legend
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Just clicking Cmon Mingo,,, Let's get this deal done.. 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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There are people who are not happy unless they are constantly creating some kind of turmoil or conflict. Some just thrive on using their power to screw with people...even when it isn't called for.
...in some, it is a mental sickness that would require professional help...some are beyond help.
Sounds like a certain message board poster I know.
If you care to debate Joe Banner and the history he created for himself...fine...don't believe what I post about the man...try doing some research about his past.
I didn't mention any names.....but if the shoe fits, lace that sucker up and wear it!
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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..."lace that sucker up"
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All Pro
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Thanks, pblack. You did the research I was too lazy to do.
Still, only 15 guys over a 10 year period. Most teams (over half) never saw a single one in ten years. Average of 1.5 guys per year. Not impossible, but pretty rare, and falls mostly on the FO, GM, and scouts.
I'd guess it's even more rare for these guys to land on another team for less money. My wild guess is they are either out of the league, or traded and getting the same dough from another stupid GM. Now we're only talking about a handful of guys that would ever see the benefit, over a ten year period.
I'd guess the number would go up if you include the top twenty. But still, it isn't very common. Frex, hasn't happened to the Browns. And they aren't exactly the drafting juggernaut.
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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really it was more than I thought. 15 out of 100. but I was shocked at how many were 4 year and done. I just glanced through it but it seamed a lot. top 10 picks you would think would be on the team for 7 or 8 years?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Maybe I'm mistaken here, but I was under the impression that we are only talking about the "guaranteed" money portion of the contract? Not the full value of the contract.
You see, the owners already have a clause that allows them to do things like backload contracts so that a player in many cases will never see the actual value of a contract.
So the only portion of a contract the owners sign that a player is sure to get is what a player is guaranteed in the bonus portion. Even some of that is often times for being in camp on time, roster bonuses and starter bonuses. Which, if Mingo weren't here, would not even apply.
So in the end, I wonder exactly how much money we're actually talking about here?
I feel since there are already picks signed above Mingo and one below Mingo who do not have such a clause, that this will be resolved ,if, as in the past they use these as guidelines for signings.
I do know that if a player feels he has been brow beaten into such a deal, it may impact re-signing that player at a later time. That may, in the long run, be a far more expensive avenue to follow.
I think the Ravens wished they would have signed Flacco well before winning that SB last year. I'd say that cost them several millions in the long haul. So I could see this tactic backfiring in some cases as well.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Just a general comment about off-set language ........
Weeden had off-set language in his contract last year with part of his guarantee. The only difference this year is that teams (not just the Browns, but other teams as well) are trying to push it up the ladder of the draft a bit.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Maybe I'm mistaken here, but I was under the impression that we are only talking about the "guaranteed" money portion of the contract? Not the full value of the contract.
You see, the owners already have a clause that allows them to do things like backload contracts so that a player in many cases will never see the actual value of a contract.
So the only portion of a contract the owners sign that a player is sure to get is what a player is guaranteed in the bonus portion. Even some of that is often times for being in camp on time, roster bonuses and starter bonuses. Which, if Mingo weren't here, would not even apply.
So in the end, I wonder exactly how much money we're actually talking about here?
I feel since there are already picks signed above Mingo and one below Mingo who do not have such a clause, that this will be resolved ,if, as in the past they use these as guidelines for signings.
I do know that if a player feels he has been brow beaten into such a deal, it may impact re-signing that player at a later time. That may, in the long run, be a far more expensive avenue to follow.
I think the Ravens wished they would have signed Flacco well before winning that SB last year. I'd say that cost them several millions in the long haul. So I could see this tactic backfiring in some cases as well.
JMHO
First round picks, at least at the top of the draft, have fully guaranteed contracts. Every penny, dime, and dollars is theirs, period. (unless they commit crimes, are suspended multiple times for drugs, or other areas spelled out in a contract that could cancel their guarantee) The one thing that does not cancel a guarantee is sucking.
Without off-set language, Mingo will get every single penny of his Browns contract whether he is an All-Pro, or if he is another David Veikune, and is cut in 2 years time. He gets paid period. (except as noted above)
Off-set language would allow the Browns to off-set anything he would make if he was cut and signed with another team. If he sucks, is cut, and then signs with another team for $1 million, then the Browns would save that $1 million off of what they would have to pay him.
To me, off-set is really pretty fair. I understand why players don't want it, but it does protect the team while really not penalizing the player at all.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Maybe I'm mistaken here, but I was under the impression that we are only talking about the "guaranteed" money portion of the contract? Not the full value of the contract.
You may be right about that. I was speaking on the total amount the team owes him which may be different than the "full value" of the contract. If a player signs for 4 years for 20 million (5 mil per year) then he expects to make 20 million. If he's released after year 3 the team still owes him 5 million. It's that 5 million we're talking about.
I'm sure it wouldn't count the various (yearly?) bonuses that become involved.
I do believe that top 10 rookie contracts are all guaranteed as part of the negotiations between the NFL and NFLPA to get the rookie salaries lowered as has been done. Smaller contracts but guaranteed to make up for it.
There are many on here who know and understand this stuff. I'm not one of them. I only became interested in the "offset language" as it's the first time I've heard it come up in negotiations with a Browns draft pick.
Well there ya go. YTown laid it out before I'd clicked "submit" on my post. He is one of those who know this stuff.
Last edited by ddubia; 07/20/13 01:14 PM.
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Yes he does. And thanks YTown for clearing that up. I guess I just see it as the owners made an arrangement to get what they wanted in terms of rookie contracts, and now wish to revise it yet once again in their favor. Seems a little one sided to me. And I do know if a player feels he was treated unfairly, it may cost you more to re-sign him, than you will ever save on a rookie contract given their limitations now. I mean if Mingo turns out to be the "Kruger type" in four years, will it be in our favor to have a player who felt he was treated fairly all along? Or one who goes into things feeling he needs to play hard ball? I don't have a stand pat answer to that, but I know how I would feel about it. I guess each person may view it differently.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Mingo, due to report Friday, still
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