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Just the fact that he's looking to bring him in for a visit says there's no faith in Frye or Anderson as starters.

Green wouldn't come here to backup, period.


And David Carr wouldn't go anywhere that he isn't going to start. Period. Oh, wait - he went to Carolina. But since you are obviously tight with Green and know his thoughts - can I get an autographed jersey?




ROFL. There's a GIGANTIC difference between Green and Carr.

Carr is a failed QB from a failed team, but still has upside due to his first round skillset, so Carolina took a flyer on him since they're not sold on Delhomme anymore.

Green has been a success for 4 of the past 5 seasons and wants to start. When you're a guy who's had a 90+ rating for 4 of the past 5 seasons, I think you can dictate if you wanna start or not vs. a guy with lousy career numbers.

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Just the fact that he's looking to bring him in for a visit says there's no faith in Frye or Anderson as starters.

Green wouldn't come here to backup, period.


And David Carr wouldn't go anywhere that he isn't going to start. Period. Oh, wait - he went to Carolina. But since you are obviously tight with Green and know his thoughts - can I get an autographed jersey?




ROFL. There's a GIGANTIC difference between Green and Carr.

Carr is a failed QB from a failed team, but still has upside due to his first round skillset, so Carolina took a flyer on him since they're not sold on Delhomme anymore.

Green has been a success for 4 of the past 5 seasons and wants to start. When you're a guy who's had a 90+ rating for 4 of the past 5 seasons, I think you can dictate if you wanna start or not vs. a guy with lousy career numbers.




Oh, so your are in Carolinas FO? Wow, what other inside tracks do you have? How do you figure they lost faith in Delhomme?

2003 CAR 16 266 449 59.2 3219 7.2 19 67 16 80.6
2004 CAR 16 310 533 58.2 3886 7.3 29 63 15 87.3
2005 CAR 16 262 435 60.2 3421 7.9 24 80 16 88.1
2006 CAR 13 263 431 61.0 2805 6.5 17 72 11 82.6
Career 67 1151 1934 59.5 13965 7.2 92 80 63 84.1


That's fairly consistant. He got injured end of last year.

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Just the fact that he's looking to bring him in for a visit says there's no faith in Frye or Anderson as starters.

Green wouldn't come here to backup, period.


And David Carr wouldn't go anywhere that he isn't going to start. Period. Oh, wait - he went to Carolina. But since you are obviously tight with Green and know his thoughts - can I get an autographed jersey?




ROFL. There's a GIGANTIC difference between Green and Carr.

Carr is a failed QB from a failed team, but still has upside due to his first round skillset, so Carolina took a flyer on him since they're not sold on Delhomme anymore.

Green has been a success for 4 of the past 5 seasons and wants to start. When you're a guy who's had a 90+ rating for 4 of the past 5 seasons, I think you can dictate if you wanna start or not vs. a guy with lousy career numbers.




Oh, so your are in Carolinas FO? Wow, what other inside tracks do you have? How do you figure they lost faith in Delhomme?

2003 CAR 16 266 449 59.2 3219 7.2 19 67 16 80.6
2004 CAR 16 310 533 58.2 3886 7.3 29 63 15 87.3
2005 CAR 16 262 435 60.2 3421 7.9 24 80 16 88.1
2006 CAR 13 263 431 61.0 2805 6.5 17 72 11 82.6
Career 67 1151 1934 59.5 13965 7.2 92 80 63 84.1


That's fairly consistant. He got injured end of last year.




It's been public knowledge if you've been paying attention to the newswires and rumor mills. I know ESPN touched on it near the end of last year and again just a couple days ago assessing the Panthers' draft needs.

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Just the fact that he's looking to bring him in for a visit says there's no faith in Frye or Anderson as starters.

Green wouldn't come here to backup, period.


And David Carr wouldn't go anywhere that he isn't going to start. Period. Oh, wait - he went to Carolina. But since you are obviously tight with Green and know his thoughts - can I get an autographed jersey?




ROFL. There's a GIGANTIC difference between Green and Carr.

Carr is a failed QB from a failed team, but still has upside due to his first round skillset, so Carolina took a flyer on him since they're not sold on Delhomme anymore.

Green has been a success for 4 of the past 5 seasons and wants to start. When you're a guy who's had a 90+ rating for 4 of the past 5 seasons, I think you can dictate if you wanna start or not vs. a guy with lousy career numbers.




Oh, so your are in Carolinas FO? Wow, what other inside tracks do you have? How do you figure they lost faith in Delhomme?

2003 CAR 16 266 449 59.2 3219 7.2 19 67 16 80.6
2004 CAR 16 310 533 58.2 3886 7.3 29 63 15 87.3
2005 CAR 16 262 435 60.2 3421 7.9 24 80 16 88.1
2006 CAR 13 263 431 61.0 2805 6.5 17 72 11 82.6
Career 67 1151 1934 59.5 13965 7.2 92 80 63 84.1


That's fairly consistant. He got injured end of last year.




It's been public knowledge if you've been paying attention to the newswires and rumor mills. I know ESPN touched on it near the end of last year and again just a couple days ago assessing the Panthers' draft needs.




RUMOR:
1. a story or statement in general circulation without confirmation or certainty as to facts.
2. gossip; hearsay.


Atlanta must giving up on Micahel Vick

Falcons | Harrington meets with team Friday
Sat, 7 Apr 2007 07:53:03 -0700

Steve Wyche, of The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, reports free agent QB Joey Harrington (Dolphins) met with the Atlanta Falcons Friday, April 6, according to his agent, Joby Branion. Harrington did not go through a workout and contract talks has not been broached, according to Branion.

http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl


Panthers | Carr contract update
Sat, 7 Apr 2007 04:51:18 -0700

Updating previous items, John McClain, of the Houston Chronicle, reports Carolina Panthers QB David Carr signed a two-year contract worth $6.3 million. The deal can be worth as much as $8.5 million with incentives.


Browns | Savage in no hurry on Green trade
Fri, 6 Apr 2007 14:11:27 -0700

Steve Doerschuk, of the Canton Repository, reports Cleveland Browns general manager Phil Savage is not in a hurry to try to trade for Kansas City Chiefs QB Trent Green and said that the situation may not be resolved until the weekend of the 2007 NFL Draft. It is believed Savage will not offer anything more that a fifth-round pick, however he may swap third-round picks for Green.


Pay attention to the first half. If he truly wanted Green as an immediate starter he'd trade now to get chemistry started for the current workouts.

KFFL is the BEST rumor mill there is - and there is ZERO about the Panthers not being happy with Delhomme. As for you saying it was on ESPN

ESPN = Especially Stupid People Network. They have zero credability.

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QB Carr agrees to deal with Panthers

NFL.com wire reports



(April 6, 2007) -- A month after he was released by the Houston Texans, David Carr agreed to a two-year deal to play for the Carolina Panthers.

Carr, the No. 1 overall pick in the 2002 draft, will serve as Jake Delhomme's backup.

"It's a case where we were obviously looking for someone to come in back up Jake and the opportunity to get a quarterback the caliber of David in free agency is unique," Panthers general manager Marty Hurney said. "We thought it was a good situation and a good opportunity for us."

Carr was a five-year starter for the expansion Texans. He completed 60 percent of his passes, but threw 65 interceptions and was sacked 249 times. Carr completed a career-high 68.3 percent of his passes last season, but was released by the Texans after they obtained Matt Schaub in a trade from Atlanta and anointed him as their starting quarterback.

The Panthers believe Carr's troubles stemmed from Houston's poor offensive line, and tried to sign him during his visit with the team early in the week. Carr left without a contract and visited Seattle, while Carolina brought in former Miami quarterback Joey Harrington for a visit.

But on Thursday Carr decided he wanted to sign with Carolina, and the two sides reached a deal over the phone early Friday morning, ending a nervous period for Hurney.

"He met everybody and met Jake and I think he felt comfortable," Hurney said. "You never know what happens when he leaves without a contract. But we felt good about him I think he felt good about us and he made the decision to come here."

The Panthers were looking for an experienced quarterback to back up Delhomme after releasing Chris Weinke last month . Weinke struggled in a relief role in three games last season when Delhomme had a sprained thumb, throwing two touchdown passes and four interceptions. The Panthers went 1-2 in those three games and the lone game they won came with Weinke throwing only seven passes.

The 6-foot-3 Carr may have had other opportunities to start with other teams, but Hurney insisted Carr will back up Delhomme , who struggled last season as the Panthers finished disappointing 8-8.

" We made it clear and he knows that Jake Delhomme is our starting quarterback," Hurney said. "I think it was important for him to come to a winning organization and a place where he thinks has a chance to win. He knows that Jake is our starter. Every player wants to play, but he knows the role he's coming into."

The move means the Panthers now have the top two picks from the 2002 draft. Carolina selected defensive end Julius Peppers with No. 2 pick.

Carr's signing is the biggest move the Panthers have made so far in free agency. Hurney has said they were content with 21 of 22 starters returning next season.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/CAR/10112148

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Carr is a failed QB from a failed team, but still has upside due to his first round skillset, so Carolina took a flyer on him since they're not sold on Delhomme anymore.





Oh come on Ammo,,, it's one thing to assume something,,, it's a whole other thing when you say it as if it's a fact,,

You have no info that indicates any displeasure with Delhomme in Carolina.

You know, it could be that Carolina is just trying to upgrade the over all QB position,,, and that doesn't necessarily mean that Delhomme has fallin the least bit our of favor...


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Yes, there is a HUGE difference between Carr and Green. Carr played behind a terrible line and had no running game to help him. Green played behind one of the best lines in the league and with Priest Holmes running the ball. If you think Green will be the Green he was at KC with the Browns, you are as ignorant about the QB position that I have accused you of being.

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Yes, there is a HUGE difference between Carr and Green. Carr played behind a terrible line and had no running game to help him. Green played behind one of the best lines in the league and with Priest Holmes running the ball. If you think Green will be the Green he was at KC with the Browns, you are as ignorant about the QB position that I have accused you of being.




Did I say he would be?

Quite frankly I have concerns about his health after his concussion last year. Notice I haven't made an opinion either way? All I said was if Green comes here it means the end of Frye/Anderson, and if he doesn't, just the fact that we're looking at other people indicates what we might do in the draft and the FO's perception of our QB's. He's NOT coming here to back up anybody (if he does come here) unless it's a year from now when a first round QB is ready to go.

But there are several factors you have to remember as well...

-Green has proven himself, Carr hasn't. Even with the different factors, it is what it is. A proven player can choose where he wants to go and whether he wants the starting job or not over a reclamation project.

-Neither has had spectacular talent in the passing game aside from one target. Green had Gonzalez and Carr had Johnson.

-Both had running games (well, the Texans did for a time at least), Green had a spectacular running game to work with while Carr's was good enough to open up the passing game.

-KC had an awesome line while the Texans had crap.

-Carr is a reclamation project and Green is medical risk.

-We'd be crazy to invest too much in either of them (if Carr wasn't already signed to the Panthers).

What does it add up to? I don't know. I'm not fully endorsing Green and I'm not completely trashing Carr. I'm just saying that the fact that we're looking down this road says a lot about what our FO and coaching staff think about our QB situation. Maybe those of us who don't like Frye too much aren't seeing things afterall.

And like I said all along, I hope I look like a fool this time next year, cuz it means we will have been in the playoff picture.

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Or maybe he FO is seeing what many of us have for a long time and are getting a mentor for Frye that he can sit behind for a year, learn from, and then take over. Of course, in a couple weeks you will demanding another apology from the Browns because Smith is in the AFL or CFL.

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Just the fact that he's looking to bring him in for a visit says there's no faith in Frye or Anderson as starters.

Green wouldn't come here to backup, period.


And David Carr wouldn't go anywhere that he isn't going to start. Period. Oh, wait - he went to Carolina. But since you are obviously tight with Green and know his thoughts - can I get an autographed jersey?




Problem is, Green is guaranteed to start in Miami, so if another team wants him, they'll have to guarantee him the starting gig.

Carr never had that option, apples and oranges.


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I do follow the Browns. Its the only team in this area that I like. I live in Erie so how could I not follow them.

Not saying it would be handed to him, but Green wouldn't come here if there was a competition, hence why he is testing the market because if he stays a Chief thats exactly whats gonna happen. I'm constantly reading about Green and have been long before the Browns showed the mildest interest.

Secondly, Green would beat out Frye and Anderson, and Quinn or Russel if the Browns took either of them. He hasn't had a good career by being a slouch. What has Frye or Anderson done? I don't see them putting up numbers like Green. And a rookie QB beating him out? Give me a break dude.

You must think Green really sucks to think that he wouldn't be a starter in Cleveland.

Maybe I'm biased, but I do not see Green riding the pine.

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Here's my opinion on Green Chiefsfan... IF he's physically capable of playing at the LEVEL he was at before the concussion, then he is by far the best QB out there available on the market. I'm pretty sure of that statement.

But look at my caviat,,, IF he's physically capable,,, IF!

Anything is possible, but honestly, I don't know how he could be back to normal.,,, that was on heck of a hit he sustained and not many people could come back 100% Intact this quickly.. his performance once he returned last year (except for the Cleveland game anyway) was well below his former abilities. So if that's any indication, he's got a ways to go.

It could be that he has come back 100% by now, but I still have concerns...

Don't let my concerns bother you however, I'm wrong about this stuff more often than I'm right


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I personally don't think it matters for us if he's healthy or not because it seems fairly obvious that he either wants to go to Miami or stay in KC...


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I hope I look like a fool this time next year, cuz it means we will have been in the playoff picture.

Hey Ammo, You don't have to wait till next year.

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I found this very interesting.

QB Ratings of quarterbacks since the Browns let go of Maurice Carthon and replaced him with Jeff Davidson. Only QB's with at least 100 pass attempts in that time frame are listed.

QB Rating
1 - 99.6 - Peyton Manning
2 - 98.3 - Drew Brees
3 - 96.3 - Jeff Garcia
4 - 96.2 - Tony Romo
5 - 91.6 - Carson Palmer
6 - 90.1 - JP Losman
7 - 89.2 - Marc Bulger
8 - 89.0 - Philip Rivers
9 - 88.5 - Tom Brady
10 - 88.5 - Jay Cutler
11 - 84.9 - Seneca Wallace
12 - 84.5 - Steve McNair
13 - 81.2 - Jake Delhomme
14 - 80.5 - David Garrard
15 - 78.8 - Jon Kitna
16 - 78.4 - Jake Plummer
17 - 77.3 - Charlie Frye
18 - 77.2 - Michael Vick
19 - 77.0 - Chad Pennington
20 - 76.5 - Jason Campbell
21 - 75.8 - Ben Roethlisberger
22 - 75.2 - Matt Leinart
23 - 75.2 - Trent Green
24 - 73.0 - Brett Favre
25 - 72.0 - David Carr
26 - 70.7 - Vince Young
27 - 70.7 - Joey Harrington
28 - 69.9 - Matt Hasselbeck
29 - 68.6 - Rex Grossman
30 - 68.3 - Eli Manning
31 - 66.5 - Alex Smith
32 - 65.2 - Brad Johnson
33 - 63.1 - Derek Anderson
34 - 61.9 - Aaron Brooks
35 - 59.9 - Bruce Gradkowski
36 - 59.1 - Andrew Walter

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Good find. I guess Frye is better than a guy with a severe concussion...which happened about the time we replaced Mo with JD.

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Good find. I guess Frye is better than a guy with a severe concussion...which happened about the time we replaced Mo with JD.



Green was injured week 1, we replaced Mo after week 7.

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Trent Green's QB Rating game by game since his return in week 11.

75.5 - vs Oakland
62.9 - vs Denver
129.8 - vs Cleveland
57.3 - vs Baltimore
57.5 - vs San Diego
66.0 - vs Oakland
69.8 - vs Jacksonville

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Look at who is #3 there.



Perhaps it's the environment the QB is surrounded with??


As Opie has said many times... We are going to build AROUND the QB, not THROUGH the QB.

Until we have things actually built AROUND the QB for once in our re-existence, noone should be expecting to see much of anything happen AT QB.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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Good find. I guess Frye is better than a guy with a severe concussion...which happened about the time we replaced Mo with JD.



Green was injured week 1, we replaced Mo after week 7.




Sorry I was unclear. He was injured week 1 but he didn't come back until week 11 and was not himself the rest of the season. I think the comparison is useless. Why not compare the past 3 years?

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Are those numbers you tabulated or are they listed somewhere.??


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3 - 96.3 - Jeff Garcia




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I found this very interesting.





I found it to be very slanted.


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Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I'd still like to know where Mensa got them,,,

And why slanted Toad?


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I'd still like to know where Mensa got them,,,

And why slanted Toad?


Because it goes against his theory that Frye didn't improve.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/player/gamelogs/2006/552508

Frye's gamelog. Go into CBS Sportsline, go to a specific player and click on gamelog - that's one way to find individual game rankings. His list, not sure - ti would take time to do manual - but I know Charlies number is correct because I tabulated that myself for an article

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Simply put, there are dozens of factors that go into the point he's trying to make. Unfortunately, he only bases it upon the firing of Mo.

He then highlights Green with no reference noting it's the first time he's missed action in the past half-decade.

If he wants to suggest that Frye got better after Mo was fired, then say it without twisting things around.

Stats can be manipulated to say almost anything, but in order for the arguement to be believable, there has to be resounding proof, not spin. In this case, there are just too many factors to simplify things in this manner.

Slanted is the nicest way I can put it *L*

Truth be told, when I see things like that, it swings my opinion the other way out of nothing more than derision. Make an honest case and I'll consider it. Make a dishonest one and I'll backlash. There's enough to suggest that Frye still has a chance, just as there's enough to suggest Frye doesn't. But just as in this case for someone trying to make a case FOR him, I'll crap all over the arguement AGAINST him if they point to one single 4-INT game and try and use that as the singular bit of proof that he sucks.


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Depends how you read them. I read it as Frye improved dramatically when correct protections were called. I throw away Mo numbers because his O made zero sense. I was his biggest detractor since game #1 when we didn't run vs. Cincy in '05. The more that was revealed of him the more you can see how much of a handcuff he was. To me, Frye was a 1st year starter witha 77.3 rating as I toss out the Mo numbers because that's like putting a 5 year old in the majors and complaining he can't hit without factoring in what's around him. Trent Greens numbers, IMO - are adirect result of a cheap shot concussion. Not of his ability as a QB. I still don't want to touch him ith a 10 foot pole, out line is a much greater need and he'd die behind it. Plus I think that concussion effectively ended is career.

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I'm certain you remember just how I felt about Mo as well (you're #2, by the way ) but I can't discount Frye's time under center just because of him. I think Frye did improve, and it's short-sighted to suggest that he won't improve even more, though the amount of improvement is the real question.

As for Green, you can opine that his concussion ended his career, but there's nothing to support that theory. Considering it's his first real hit, albeit a severe one, and that he came back to perform well in at least one game, I think it's far more likely to say that concussion is less likely to have ended his career.


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To me QB rating dosent show the whole picture, maybe I'm looking at it all wrong, or just dont know everything that goes into a QB rating, interceptions can kill a rating, weather thier hail mary's, balls that hit a reciever in the hands and get intercepted, incompletions, QB fault the ball hit the reciever in the hand and he dropped it, TD help but do perfect thrown td balls which are dropped counted as what? incompletetions, Ratings are nice to look at talk about comapre during the off season, but to me it's alot more, to me it's a team effort. more involved than being a good to great QB than rating and we see this played over and over every year, last year Garcia, prime example, Very few QB come along that can over come it's teams short comings or lack of talent at diffrent positions, now days that might never happen again.

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I wholeheartedly agree with you.

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Interesting Soup,,, I had kinda forgetten about Mo not wanting to do certain things.. Call certain play.. I thought at the time that maybe he felt he didn't have the horses to pull any given play. But as time went on and it was clear that some of the players were at least decent, I did begin to wonder,,,

Still, like the fool that I am, I defended Mo.. Then last year, I'd had enough... By the time he was leaving, I think I'd voiced my opinion pretty loudly that he was a problem..

But really until then, I gave him the benefit of the doubt.


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Interesting Soup,,, I had kinda forgetten about Mo not wanting to do certain things.. Call certain play.. I thought at the time that maybe he felt he didn't have the horses to pull any given play. But as time went on and it was clear that some of the players were at least decent, I did begin to wonder,,,

Still, like the fool that I am, I defended Mo.. Then last year, I'd had enough... By the time he was leaving, I think I'd voiced my opinion pretty loudly that he was a problem..

But really until then, I gave him the benefit of the doubt.


If Chud doesn't run the ball 30 times in game #1, you'll hear me calling for his head - just as I did Mo's after 1 game. No run = no love.

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First off, I went through all the QB's manually to get the information. If you think I lied then pick any player out and calculate their QB rating from Week 8 through week 17. I guarantee you it will match up with what I put down.

Secondly Toad, I find it rather sad that you think these stats are slanted. Just because I burst your Frye stinks bubble doesn't mean they are slanted. I'm so sad that Frye ranked 17th out of 36 QB's with at least 100 pass attempts between week 8 through 17. It kind of ruined your whole argument that Frye is the worst QB in the NFL and didn't improve at all. Sorry again, next time I will not prove with un-slanted stats that Frye outperformed more than half the QB's in the league in the 2nd half of the season.

67 QB Rating = Frye under Carthon
77 QB Rating = Frye under Davidson

Now lets all continue with biased opinions about this and that, because we certainly do not want to let the facts get in the way.


And Overtoad, I highlighted Green because if you haven't already noticed this is a Trent Green topic. I highlighted the Browns QB's and the QB of the topic. Wow, I was so slanted.

Quote:

otisthedawg wrote:
Why not compare the past 3 years?




Ummmm, Frye has only been in the NFL 2 years. Good call on the 3 years though.

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I assume you were just clicking on me as I never doubted you. My post was simply to show that you had accurate numbers

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Hey, New Jack, drop the "over" in "overtoad"

Just toad


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Quote:

Secondly Toad, I find it rather sad that you think these stats are slanted.




It's not your stats that are slanted. It's your presentation and your desired end result which is slanted.

Big difference.

Anyone can make any set of stats say what they want them to say, and anyone can stir up a case by slanting a discussion in order to try and twist it into their favor. Case in point:

Quote:

It kind of ruined your whole argument that Frye is the worst QB in the NFL and didn't improve at all.




When you can show me exactly where I said Frye is the worst QB in the NFL and that he didn't improve at all, we'll continue the discussion.

See, the best way to make YOUR OWN arguement look good is to talk up and create a case AGAINST it. You want so badly to have someone say that Frye is the worst QB that it'll allow you to make a case that he isn't.

Too bad I didn't say that, and your slanted way of conducting yourself has just exposed your little charade for what it is

Here, let me tighten your noose for you:
Quote:

It kind of ruined your whole argument that Frye is the worst QB in the NFL and didn't improve at all.




Here's what I ACTUALLY said:
Quote:


'Toad- "I think Frye did improve, and it's short-sighted to suggest that he won't improve even more, though the amount of improvement is the real question."




So, here's your chance to save a little face. Feel free to quote me where I said Frye was the worst starter in the NFL.

(Between you and me, I wouldn't waste much time diggin' if I were you. You won't find anything)

Best to just quietly go into that goodnight. Being slanted got you into this mess and you can only dig the hole deeper. Spin won't save you now. Just let it go........


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Quote:

Frye was the worst starter in the NFL.




It's all about context...


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As Opie has said many times... We are going to build AROUND the QB, not THROUGH the QB.

Until we have things actually built AROUND the QB for once in our re-existence, noone should be expecting to see much of anything happen AT QB.




This could be tested if Quinn or Russell are on the board at #3 and so is Thomas and/or Phil has the chance to trade down.

BTW the theory that Frye looked worse than he was b/c of Mo's incompetence is older than this message board!

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Quote:


BTW the theory that Frye looked worse than he was b/c of Mo's incompetence is older than this message board!




Theory hell,the numbers AND wins under Davidson PROVE IT!


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See Toad, this is the kinda thing I was talking about in another thread yesterday..

Frye supporters will say that his stats prove his value.. Frye detractors say that stats don't tell the whole story.. Truth be known, both are correct!

Stats can show production, but stats can't tell you why that production exists.

Stats show that Frye had 17 INT's last season.. Stats don't show why some of them were probably not his fault.. So in essence that stat makes Frye look like an INT machine...

Someone that doesn't think Frye is the guy will use that stat out of context (thanks Cal) and make Frye appear to be a lesser QB. One that the statistitions, using the facts before them, rank 26th in a field of 32.

Is it accurate,, well, yes, it is. From a statistical standpoint. But is it accurate when looking at everything to judge a QB's overall performance.. Not so much!

The other day, I think it was you that I had the discussion about what is fair and what isn't.. Won't go there again except to say this has nothing to do with fair.

What it has to do with is honesty. Fryes stats as they are compiled by the NFL indicate he's not so good.. If for what ever reason, a poster/fan has decided that they feel for instance that Fryes arm strength isn't where it needs to me, suddenly, the stats are brought up to prove it...

To counter act that notion, someone like Mensa comes along,,, does a heck of a lot of work to show people how, if you look at it another way, Frye isn't so bad...

The problem with that comes in, when name calling, twisting of what people have said or trying to reach inside of someones head to determine what they mean and what the agenda is.

We've all done it.. (yes, even sweet little ole me )

Mensa may have gone a little overboard in indicating what you said that you deny (I'm not interested enough to go back and check, I trust you so I'll take your word for it, fact is I don't remember you saying it eiher, but others have and he may have mistaken you for them,,, it happens)

Now I'm gonna say this, and whether you think I'm wrong or right doesn't really matter, but, Mensa deserves a gold star for taking the time to calculate that info for us. He also deserves a slap upside the head for making the "he said/he said comments: to you.

One thing that Mensas calculations show is that Frye isn't as bad as many think.. They show clearly that Frye was right in the middle of the pack as far as all QB's last season. (well, the second half anyway ) And it's a useful analysis in another way. It demonstrates that with the right kinda thinking on the sidelines, the fortunes of a QB can be improved. (I think we all probably knew that, but it's nice to see it actually happen every once in a while)

But maybe it's me, but all this conversation on stats kinda reminds me of the movie Major League..

As Roscoe steps to the plate, the announcer says:

"Roscoe is coming to the plate for the first time in this series.. I'd like to point out that Roscoe has a .375 batting average on plate appearences following a rain storm during a full moon on tuesdays"

I always get a kick out of stuff like that. And Toad, I kinda get the feeling that it's that kinda thing that you rail against.. Am I right about that?

In either case, Mensas stats aren't wrong... But Mensa, they are calculated in order to prove a particular point... you proved it very well I might add.. But that also makes them some what slanted.. and that's not a bad thing because to prove your point, you needed to look at things differently... so slanting in this case was really required...


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