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Legend
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Legend
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It is way, way too early to make any season decisions based on 4 or 5 days of camp so far.
Tom Reed of the Plain Dealer said today that Weeden has been, by far, the best QB in camp so far, and that he has made some nice plays. He said that Weeden had a rough day today, but still made some great throws, especially one that went for a TD. (which he said was the best throw any QB has made so far in camp)
Further, Chud has said that they are putting the QBs, all of them, in a variety of situations, forcing them into certain types of plays and throws, so they can see who can do what well, and who struggles with certain plays. Personally, I think that's a great way to do things.
As far as the defense, they have the potential to be very, very good ..... but potential just means that you haven't done it yet. They had potential after 2011, and the great scoring stats, but slid backwards last year, even as we scored more points on offense than we did in 2011. The players have to do it on the field, on offense and defense ..... and not just in practices. I am more interested in seeing how we do in pre-season games, but even those are fairly generic games, without any schemes installed. It's going to be hard to know for sure what we have until we get into the regular season, and see Horton's schemes on defense, the organized chaos of his blitz schemes, and until we see the offense with an actual gameplan.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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All Pro
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All Pro
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Quote:
Tom Reed of the Plain Dealer said today that Weeden has been, by far, the best QB in camp so far....
OUCH!
Never have hope. You won’t be disappointed.
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Legend
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Legend
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It is way, way too early to make any season decisions based on 4 or 5 days of camp so far.
I get that and that is what most people are saying.
However, I think it is somewhat of a concern because of how terrible he was last season. If Weeden would have played well last season---or even decent---then his poor TC performance wouldn't concern me very much. But, given that he was horrendous and is once again making a ton of inaccurate throws, I do have cause for concern.
A QB should look his best in the camps. It's a controlled environment. No one can sack you. The rushers have to let up early when they are rushing, thus your throwing lanes are wider, bigger. There isn't the sense of urgency in the pocket. QBs typically light it up in practices.
It's tough because so much rests on how he performs this year. I really do believe we have a better team w/a better scheme. I think we're capable of winning 9 games if we got just decent QB play from Weeden. I don't think we will get that, but I am hoping that he doesn't stink the joint out again, either. If he does, it's hard telling how many games we'll win.
I'm not trying to be a jerk and say you are wrong. I'm just expressing my concerns. I think Weeden is the biggest question mark on the team. It's a combination of his play from last year, the fact that he was a Spread qb, and the importance of the qb position.
Hopefully, it clicks for the guy.
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Legend
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Legend
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Our defense is good. I would even go so far as to say our defense is VERY good.
I don't get how you can say this, at all.
Our defense is absolutely nothing so far. They have yet to even take a single scrimmage snap against another team, and have only just a couple of days ago been together with pads on.
They're not good. They're not bad. They're not.... anything, yet.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Legend
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Legend
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I agree that Weeden is the single biggest question mark on this team, and the key to success next season. That said, Norv and Chud have allowed, and encouraged the QBs to take chances early in camp. They have encouraged the QBs to see what they can, and cannot get away with on the field.
I don't really place much credence in the first week or so of training camp. I want to see how Weeden does as the pre-season progresses. Reports thus far are that Weeden has looked better than the other QBs, so we'll see if that holds up or not.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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They're not.... anything, yet.
It's all based on "potential": How past performance may be an indicator of future resulrs. 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
They're not.... anything, yet.
It's all based on "potential": How past performance may be an indicator of future resulrs.
If potential counted for anything, I'd be retired and extremely wealthy right now; thoughts would be as good as actions; and there would be no differentiation between Potential and Kinetic.
One "might" be. One Is.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Practice Squad
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Practice Squad
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However, I think it is somewhat of a concern because of how terrible he was last season. If Weeden would have played well last season---or even decent---then his poor TC performance wouldn't concern me very much. But, given that he was horrendous and is once again making a ton of inaccurate throws, I do have cause for concern.
A QB should look his best in the camps. It's a controlled environment. No one can sack you. The rushers have to let up early when they are rushing, thus your throwing lanes are wider, bigger. There isn't the sense of urgency in the pocket. QBs typically light it up in practices.
i disagree. The defense pretty much always looks ahead of the offense early in camps when theres any transition going on be it playbook or roster. Defenses are reactive, and need to think a lot less. Offenses and QBs specifically are having to think a lot more during each play. the playbook is different, the players are different, the players are running different routes, different timing, etc etc etc, they are seeing all new things. Meanwhile the defense, while also learning a new system, are basically individually reacting to their assignments, which means thinking less, and reacting more quickly and naturally.
its early in camp, i dont see anything to be concerned about.
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Legend
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Legend
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So, we should simply dismiss last year's pathetic performance?
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Legend
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Legend
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So, we should simply dismiss last year's pathetic performance?
I think Josh has a valid point. We need to give this some time, but our full expectations are based in part on last year's expectations.
Basically, I expect our offense to be better than last year, but I would be surprised if we jump from one of the worst to even the league average line. I'll settle for the 20th best offense in the league and I hope we can get there.
#gmstrong
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Quote:
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They're not.... anything, yet.
It's all based on "potential": How past performance may be an indicator of future resulrs.
If potential counted for anything, I'd be retired and extremely wealthy right now; thoughts would be as good as actions; and there would be no differentiation between Potential and Kinetic.
One "might" be. One Is.
I'm trying to digest what you said. Could you please provide a translation?... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
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So, we should simply dismiss last year's pathetic performance?
I think Josh has a valid point. We need to give this some time, but our full expectations are based in part on last year's expectations.
Basically, I expect our offense to be better than last year, but I would be surprised if we jump from one of the worst to even the league average line. I'll settle for the 20th best offense in the league and I hope we can get there.
I've seen pathetic offense. I think back to Mangini and that 1-11 start where we couldn't do anything on offense at all. That was pathetic.
Last year...not so much. There were frustrating moments to be sure but our offense had teeth. Weeden set quite a few Browns rookie records last year. Gordon averaged more than 40 yards per TD catch and Richardson had 12 TDs.
That's certainly not pathetic.
I expect us to get into that middle group of NFL offenses starting right now.
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
So, we should simply dismiss last year's pathetic performance?
I think Josh has a valid point. We need to give this some time, but our full expectations are based in part on last year's expectations.
Basically, I expect our offense to be better than last year, but I would be surprised if we jump from one of the worst to even the league average line. I'll settle for the 20th best offense in the league and I hope we can get there.
I've seen pathetic offense. I think back to Mangini and that 1-11 start where we couldn't do anything on offense at all. That was pathetic.
Last year...not so much.
Last year was our 3rd-highest season total for points scored since the return in 1999. Two years ago (Shurmur's first year) was pathetic.
Code:
2012 302
2011 218
2010 271
2009 245
2008 232
2007 402
2006 238
2005 232
2004 276
2003 254
2002 344
2001 285
2000 161
1999 217
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Legend
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yes, last year's offense wasn't nearly as horrific as we have seen. but, it was still incredibly inconsistent and overall bad. the fact that makes it the 3rd highest scoring offense since the return is sad. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamoff201227th in passing efficiency 25th in rushing efficiency 27th in overall offensive efficiency
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Legend
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And I think I have a valid point. Weeden was horrible last year. He ranked 35th amongst NFL QBs. That's right........35th. He has been struggling w/accuracy issues in TC.
I never once said to bench him or cut him. I said I have concerns. I would say that based on last year's performance and his struggles thus far this year, that my point is valid, also.
Btw........that dynamic offense you guys are bragging about finished 25th in the league. They also won 5 games.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Vers, I agree mostly with your assessment of Weeden, but still believe you are a little too harsh when discussing him. But, I've been reading and watching everything about camp, and have yet to see anyone suggest he is "struggling" with inaccuracy. Chud has been asked over and over about INTs in camp, and he consistently says that they are telling them to push the limits. I don't think you can read a whole lot into it.
I understand your feeling for the guy, but you should try to be just a little more reasonable in your assessment.
Chud did say that INTs are bad, but still insisted that it has a lot to do with what they are telling him to do.
That being said, I am still not sold on him, and if the INTs show up in the preseason games, I will be worried.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Legend
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I also remember that a very poor Charlie Frye beat out DA back in the day .... because DA was incredibly unimpressive in training camp. Then Frye imploded against the Steelers, DA came in and played fairly well, and the rest is history.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
I understand your feeling for the guy, but you should try to be just a little more reasonable in your assessment.
How is being concerned unreasonable? I'm not trying to be rude. Not at all. But, all I said was that I am concerned.
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