DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Turner sees Weeden as starting QB, but likes Campbell, too

Man, Quinn was an all-time epic fail.

So disapppointing.

Quote:

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I remember a 4th down pass sailed into the stands when the QB came under modest pressure. I can't remember which QB that was though,

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Pick one.. you have a lot to choose from.

I'm not going to mention the guy's name ... because I don't want to be called a hater ........ but I remember who it was now .....

The play I remember had the QB roll out of the pocket, he had zero pressure on him .... and he threw the ball out of bounds like it was 1st down. I mean he just lobbed it out of bounds like it wasn't going to turn the ball over.

I assume you are discussing the last play of the 1st Ravens game for Weeden. Right after JoeT gifted him an extra play with an incredible acting job and just a few plays after Greg Little kept the drive alive with an amazing catch.

LOL........I don't think that is who YTown was talking about. He loves Weeden.

I have seen Vinny, Bernie, Timid, DA, and Weeden throw it out of bounds on 4th down. The other guys probably did too, but I just don't remember specific plays. Bernie's was downright embarrassing.

There seems to be a lot of extreme positions on Weeden on this thread. I will say this:

--I want Weeden to start this year. I want to see if has it. I don't even care if he really doesn't win the job in TC, I want him to get another chance. He was a first round pick. We need him to produce.

--Are people already making excuses....2nd OC on two years??? LOL.....sounds like you are confident. And please, do not compare him to Tom Brady.

--I was just watching NFL Network and they showed some video from camp. His feet do look quicker. That's a good thing.

--My contention has always been--and still remains until he proves different---is that he struggles reading coverages. Btw guys.......will everyone stop saying defenses? Reading defenses occurs pre-snap. Reading coverages is post-snap. There is a big difference. Even some announcers say that crap. It's annoying. If Weeden can 't read coverages, it won't matter what offense he plays in.

--My hope is that Passive Pat's insistence on Weeds not throwing picks make the latter so gun shy that he held the ball forever mostly for that reason. Let's hope that is true.

That wasn't it.

Quinn did it more than I care to remember.

I agree with you on Weeden. No reason for him to not start the year. Plus, it's not like we have any great potential behind him. Campbell is an okay backup, and that is the role where we should keep him.

Brett Hundley here we come!

wouldn't be too upset if we land Hundley. hopefully, we can be competitive this year and still land someone like him.

if we're talking out of bounds throws, how about every single pass seneca wallace threw to the right sideline?

THAT was painful

A couple of things:

--I am a YTown fan. We disagree on things, but he provides good insight w/out all the insults.

--Do you feel more manly now that you have threw so many insults at me in one post? It's funny how you guys need to resort to insults to prove you are the guys who "know football.

Now, go huddle up w/your clique and try again.

I could be wrong but with Rishuz and Vers I see a Bro-mance developing.

Opposites attract?

Actually, I liked Weeden for 2 huge reasons .....

1) He was an extremely effective college QB, and despite his age has some elite abilities. His arm is upper tier in terms of strength. There was/is a lot to like about him, but there are never guarantees with any player.

2) He wasn't one of the other QBs on the Browns prior to the draft, none of whom I felt could be successful, and help this team win. I grew to have little to no faith in Frye or Wallace as a playoff quality starting QB.

In short, I felt that he had the talent to succeed at an important position, and one that was a dire need for us. I don't feel that is a "flimsy" reason for liking a player.I also felt that his age might even be a positive on a very young team. He had been through the ups and downs of professional sports already, which I felt would help him in coming to a difficult situation in Cleveland.

As far as other players ..... I sometimes do play the "flippant" game ...... but often I do have at least a few concrete reasons for liking a player. With a guy like Bademosi, I did see him play some when they had Stanford, and Luck, on TV here. He's a guy who made some plays ..... though frankly, until we signed him I didn't pay a ton of attention to him. I did watch a ton of video on him after we signed him though, and liked what I saw. He was also a very experienced player. The more I watched and read about him the more certain I was that he could be our sleeper.

How come Barkley sucked so bad with the gaggle of ultra-talented receivers he had last year?

(Lane Kiffin)

Legit question. Point made. Same thing just flipped could be asked why Daunte Culpepper sucked after he and the "Randy Moss Connection" split apart?

Put 100 Megatrons on the field and if the QB sucks that bad, it just doesn't matter. Put 100 Aaron Rogers on the field and if the WR core is just flat out crap, well... I was just mocking the fact that Weeden, blessed with a cannon arm, was also "blessed" with a deep threat like Blackmon. It was a perfect relationship for the both of them.

I dunno...

If we had taken Blackmon with that pick, we would now be saying, "of course he looked so good with a QB like Weeden throwing him those easy balls".

It seems like we always have to have it both ways, sometimes.

I think Gordon can be better than Blackmon if he stays out of trouble.

Blackmon hasn't helped his QBs in the pros though. He was solid, but hardly extraordinary as a rookie. Shorts had a far better season last year than Blackmon did.

I suspect that Blackmon will be a solid receiver, but not the game changer he was drafted to be.

How many Jags games you watch last year, YT?

Shorts had 979 yards and 7 TDs, Blackmon had 865 and 5 TDs.

Josh Gordon had 805 yards and 5 TDs with Weeden throwing to him. Blackmon had Yo Gabba Gabbert and Henne.

What specifically did Blackmon not do, during his rookie season, to make you think he won't fulfill his potential?

I watched a few where he was damn near invisible.He seemed to struggle getting open in a few of the games I saw. (I had Sunday Ticket last year)

He had one great game last year, with 236 yards. (which I did not see) He had no other 100 yard games. He had one 93 yard game, and a pair of 79 yard games ...... and he was invisible for most of the other 12 games. He had some decent games, but not the type of games you would expect from a game changing WR.

Remember that Blackmon also has Cecil Shorts on the other side, and he had a tremendous season. Short actually had 4 100 yard games last year. In many ways, he was a better receiver than Blackmon. He definitely created more big plays than Blackmon did.

I would hate to think what Blackmon would have done if he hadn't had a great receiver opposite him drawing coverage.

Blackmon had a pretty solid rookie season. A lot of Shorts' success came from attention paid to Blackmon (though he didn't face as much double coverage as Jags fans want to believe). With that said, I never would've made that investment in him,

I don't know if YTown actually watched him play or not, but it doesn't sound like it. He usually just looks at statistics and paints a portrait from there.

And as usual, you're full of crap.

YT, since you like stats so much, why don't you look at his 16 game projections with the games started by Gabbert vs the games started by the mighty Chad Henne.

More from Norv Turner - his interview with Tony Grossi:

Browns OC Norv Turner on QB Brandon Weeden: He's capable of making big plays
Aug 07, 2013 -- 6:00am

By Tony Grossi | ESPNCleveland.com

The Morning Kickoff …

Checking in with Norv: Before Tuesday’s practice, we had a one-on-one conversation with offensive coordinator Norv Turner about the key issues on the Browns’ offense. Here are some excerpts of that conversation:

Everyone is expecting you to transform Brandon Weeden into a winning quarterback. Are you feeling that from inside the organization and also outside?

“The focus always is on the quarterback but we have to make sure everybody is on the same page and that we’re all understanding our responsibilities and that we’re going out and executing. If we get everybody playing at a high level, including the quarterback, then I think it’s a lot smoother.”

You’ve worked on making Weeden quicker physically. Is he getting quicker mentally, with surveying the field and going through his reads?

“He’s done a good job with the reading and progressions. All three of the quarterbacks, sometimes they may stick on a receiver too long, and it makes them late for the next progression. Sometimes they get off a guy too quick. Both cases we had happen (Monday) in practice. Brandon stayed with a receiver too long. When he came back the guy who was open was covered. Jason (Campbell) had a play he came off a guy too quick and the guy was gonna be open for a 30-40 yard gain. It’s just a matter of playing. When you have the right matchup, you’ve got to win the battles.”

As you’ve gotten to know Weeden on the field now, have there been any surprises or disappointments?

“The one thing that’s very obvious to me, he is capable of making big plays -- with his arm, when he’s in the right rhythm and reading things right. We have receivers making big plays. That’s a real positive. We’re working hard to eliminate negative plays that I really think change a game more than making big plays do.”

Everybody is frustrated that Trent Richardson was out again with a shin injury. Are you confident he’s going to be there when you need him?

“The days he practiced, he was really rolling. I saw him making improvements and really getting a feel for the offense. I understand you saying there’s a frustration and probably the guy who’s more frustrated than anyone is Trent. But it’s a long season and, being smart, we have a lot of time to get Trent ready.”

Josh Gordon looks great one play and then not so on the next. Where is he at right now?

“I’ve gotten to know these guys, Josh, Jordan Cameron, Travis (Benjamin) … they’re young guys and that’s what happens to young guys. You have ups and downs. We’re preaching it every day, to get where you want to be it starts every day. When those guys are going good and we’ve been in a rhythm and everybody’s on the same page, it looks exciting. There are days when it doesn’t look like the way we want it to. We’re working our asses off to get it done.”

Do you know if you can count on Gordon after his two-game suspension?

“He’s working hard to get there. Yeah, I believe we’ll be able to count on him. I think he’s gonna come into this thing when he gets back and really have a good year.

Can he be an elite receiver?

“It’s too early for me to say that. Because there’s more than just the physical skills that go into being that player. He’s physically capable of being a real good player in the league. We just have to keep pushing and working and he’s working to get to that point.”

Jordan Cameron is answering the bell every day, not missing any practices. That’s good.

“He has. And he’s played more physically, and he’s worked hard. It’s an interesting position because it’s a very physical position. You get the ball in traffic a lot. I’m hoping he can become a guy that gives us the consistency we’re looking for on third down plays. One of the things I’ve been most pleased with is that offensively we’re playing real good on third down. Our third down conversion rate (at practice) has been very good I think against a real tough defensive look. We have options on third downs because (Davone) Bess gets on the field, you got Greg (Little), Josh, Jordan. There’s a lot of places to go with the ball when you’re looking at third-and-3, third-and-4, third-and-5.”

Backup running back Dion Lewis looks good. How do you incorporate him in the offense?

“We’ll know a lot more about these guys after three preseason games than we do right now. But Dion has done everything you can ask him to do. Obviously my history, I’ve been involved with a guy of his stature (Darren Sproles). He’s made a lot of plays and if you look out here it on the practice field it looks like Darren. Now you’ve got to transfer that into games.”

How did you use Sproles with LaDainian Tomlinson?

“My first year in San Diego, L.T. led the league in rushing, in 2007. And there wasn’t a place (for Sproles). What happened was we got ahead in some games in the second half of the season and we got L.T. out and started playing Darren. And he was so explosive, we found out he could handle playing on first and second down, could run the ball, and then over the next 2-3 years his role grew to a big-time role. And in our playoff games, some big games we won L.T. was limited because he got hurt, and Darren had the big plays in two of our big playoff games, whether it be screens or a runs. He had the walk-off run against Indianapolis to win the playoff game.”


*Tony Grossi covers the Browns for ESPN 850 WKNR, ESPN 1540 KNR2 and www.espncleveland.com.

http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&post_id=20741

I understand that he did better with Henne ...... which was almost a certainty given how poorly Gabbert played. However, Blackmon also had one massive game last year that really skewed his production overall. He had one single game where he caught a ton of passes for over 260 yards, or some ridiculous amount/ (which I am not going to bother looking up) Further, when I watched the Jags play, their most impressive WR was not Blackmon, but rather was Shorts. He was explosive, caught everything thrown his way, and made big plays. Shorts was a highly effective and explosive WR. He made big plays. Blackmon had one incredible, huge game. Other than that he far closer to average than superstar. Shorts was the better receiver, by far. He was the big play machine, not Blackmon. I didn't see teams scheming to take Blackmon away either.


Overall, Shorts was the better receiver last year. He was better with either QB. He was also not the headache off the field that Blackmon was.

jc...

At what point does Mount Union become WR.U?

I mean seriously.

Well, Purple Raider Jasper Collins was cut just before the Dolphins preseason game and they picked up our UDFA Keenan Davis, who scored a TD for them.

YT, I did what iwas asking you to look at months ago. Idon't remember what the projection was with Gabbert, but it was awful.

The projection with Henne was over 1400 yards across a 16 game season. Taking out his best and his worst game under Henne, he still projected at 1100 yards for the season. In either case, that's a very strong rookie season. Compare that to Shorts' rookie season, where he had 2 catches on 12 targets for 30 yards.

You say Shorts had "a tremendous season" and was "a great receiver" while "drawing coverage" but he put up only 979 yards for the year, which put him 23rd in the league... or below average for a team's leading receiver. Justin Blackmon was 29th in the league for the year in receiving yards. Blackmon was also a rookie, while Shorts was a second-year player.

I'm not trying to argue which is a better receiver, as I think they have very different skillsets and I do like Shorts as a receiver, but your argument that Shorts somehow *made* Blackmon look better than he was is false and unsupported by facts.

Again, that "projection" was skewed by the 236 yard game against the Texans.

Hell, if we take a half season, and add one game like that to say ...... Travis Benjamin.

He had 298 yards in December, and 19 yards in November. That's 307 in half the season. If he had had one additional game of 236 yards, then his half season jumps to 543? Suddenly his season projects to a 1000 yard season using your methodology. It's a false argument, using one extremely out of the ordinary game as its basis.

No. the 1100 yard figure removes the big game. Only the 1400 yard season included the big game.

*Edit* and since it takes less than a minute to do, the projected numbers under Henne as starter (last 7 games) with and without max (236) and min (9) are 1405 and 1184 yards.