DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Turner sees Weeden as starting QB, but likes Campbell, too

If you take out the "big game", then he played 6 other games with Henne. In those 6 games, he gained 379 yards on 31 catches. (12.2 yards/catch) Again this was solid, but hardly elite. It would put him just over 1000 yards ..... but type of projections rarely seem to play out as expected.

Using number, over that same time frame, Shorts played 4 games. He had 23 receptions for 337 yards over that time frame. (14.6 yards/catch)

Of the 2 receivers, Shorts was the better one in every regard except for one game. Without that game, Blackmon was a decent receiver, but never overwhelming from the times I saw him play. He was a decent receiver, but not someone I would have been happy to have taken high in the draft. He did pick things up at the end of the year, but I didn't see elite capabilities from him. (outside, obviously, of that one huge game) He simply did not display elite level skills as far as I could see. I would rather have Gordon, especially given what each guy cost, and that both guys have had character issues.

As a side note ...... imagine if Larry Fitzgerald had played with a decent (and just decent) QB for the bulk of his career. He did well with Kurt Warner, but then he also put up a 1400 yard season with Kevin Kolb, John Skelton, and Richard Bartel throwing him the ball. Last year was the first that he wasn't able to overcome poor QB play and manage an exceptional season ...... but he had Skelton, and Ryan Lindley, and Brian Hoyer throwing him the ball. That's like playing with a JV QB. While I'm not a huge Carson Palmer fan, he looks like Peyton manning compared to the bums they have thrown out there lately. I bet that Fitzgerald had a 1500 yard season this year.

How can you take out his best game, then not throw out his worst game, and think it's a fair evaluation?

"When we don't look at the things you do well, you look bad."

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Remember that Blackmon also has Cecil Shorts on the other side, and he had a tremendous season. Short actually had 4 100 yard games last year. In many ways, he was a better receiver than Blackmon. He definitely created more big plays than Blackmon did.

I would hate to think what Blackmon would have done if he hadn't had a great receiver opposite him drawing coverage.

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Blackmon Week 16 (Shorts playing): 7 catches, 79 rec yards, 1 TD
Blackmon Week 17 (Shorts out): 6 catches, 79 rec yards, 1 TD, 1 rush, 11 yards

For week 17, the receiver freeing up Blackmon on the other side was the mighty Toney Clemons.

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I simply do not like Blackmon as a player.

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Now we get to the crux of the evaluation.

Browns QB Brandon Weeden hopes to guide offense out of its lull in preseason opener vs. Rams

By Nate Ulrich
Beacon Journal sports writer

BEREA: Browns quarterback Brandon Weeden is hoping the preseason proves to be just the tune-up the offense needs.

Weeden and the rest of the offense will get their first chance to work out some of the kinks against a real opponent when the Browns host the St. Louis Rams in the preseason opener for both teams at 8 p.m. Thursday at First Energy Stadium. With the first two weeks of training camp in the books, it’s clear the offense desperately needs to improve before the Browns’ Sept. 8 regular-season opener against the Miami Dolphins.

“I think we’re making strides,” Weeden said Wednesday after practice. “We have a long ways to go. I don’t think we’re where we need to be. I think if you ask anybody, they’d all say the same thing. We’ve got a long ways to go.

“I still feel good about the guys we have. I’m excited about the potential we have offensively. Once you get in the game and you get those live reps, you can get a better understanding because it’s tough when you go against your defense all the time and they have a pretty good idea what you’re doing and you know what they’re doing. So we’ll see, but we’ve got some work to do.”

Rob Chudzinski will make his preseason debut as an NFL head coach, and he certainly wants to see the offense improve from the last time made an appearance at FirstEnergy Stadium. Weeden and Co. fizzled during the Family Night practice Saturday in the stadium.

“We haven’t got to that point yet where we’re clicking yet offensively,” Chudzinski said after the practice Saturday. But it will come.”

Weeden, the 22nd overall pick in last year’s draft, is optimistic the offense will find the spark it’s seeking before the regular season begins.

“I’m confident, absolutely,” said Weeden, who went 5-10 as a starter last season, completing 297-of-517 passes (57.4 percent) for 3,385 yards and 14 touchdowns with 17 interceptions and posting a passer rating of 72.6, fourth-worst in the league. “These are the dog days of camp. The defense is going to have their days where they win, and we’re going to have days where we get them. That’s just the way this thing goes. It’s like that in high school, college, wherever you play. It’s just part of this time of year, but we didn’t have a very good night Saturday throughout the entire night overall, so we knew had to get better. We just hit a little lull there, and we have to bounce back. But I’m confident we’ll get to where we need to go.”

Weeden will play about a quarter along with most of the other starters, Chudzinski said.

Trent Richardson, the team’s No. 1 running back, will be held out against the Rams, so he can continue to bounce back after being kicked in his right shin last week.

“He’s a competitor and he wants to play,” Weeden said of Richardson, the third overall pick in last year’s draft. “Fortunately, he’s missing games that realistically don’t count against that win-loss record.”

Richardson, when healthy, has the ability to provide a significant boost to the offense. But its fate, to a great extent, is in Weeden’s hands no matter what.

Weeden has taken all of the first-team snaps throughout camp, and the starting job is his to lose. Still, the new regime didn’t draft him, and this will be his first time operating the vertical, downfield passing game devised by Chudzinski and offensive coordinator Norv Turner in a game, albeit an exhibition.

Weeden, though, shot down the idea that he feels more pressure now than in the preseason opener last year.

“No, not really,” Weeden said. “I know I have to play well, so I’m not putting any added pressure on myself.”

Going through progressions with efficiency and reading the defense properly are keys to playing well. Weeden has worked extensively this offseason on improving his footwork and throwing mechanics, but he also must master the mental part of the game and make the right decisions in the midst of live action.

He acknowledged he has plenty of room for improvement in those areas.

“Knowing when to take those shots and knowing when to be aggressive and knowing when to check it down and use our backs and use some of their abilities, get the ball in their hands in space, that’s one thing I’ve missed a lot of,” Weeden said. “I’ll try to throw a corner route or something when I may have something underneath that may get 6 or 7 or 8 yards. If I can get better in those areas, one, that completion percentage will go up and then it allows us to get more first downs. It’s easier to go to second-and-3 versus second-and-10 in this league, and if you get the underneath stuff when [a deep route is] not there, it makes it a little bit easier to call plays and to function as the 11 guys on the field.”

Weeden said his main goal for the exhibition opener is to manage the game well and sustain drives. In other words, he wants to guide the offense out of its funk and give it some momentum to build on. He’s not opposed to taking chances in the right situations, but finding a groove is the top priority.

“You’ve got to be smart, understand where you’re at in the game and treat it like it’s a real game,” Weeden said. “Treat it like you’re going to put together good drives and manage the game. The coaches want to see consistent, manageable drives, whether it’s a 4-yard run here, a 6-yard pass here or whatever it may be. That’s my goal, just to put our guys in position, no negative plays, move forward and if that means shots or whatever it may, so be it.”

http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/browns...s-rams-1.419482

The 8 minute interview is at the link.

It's now officially put up or shut up time for Weeden. I'm tired of hearing about what he has to do, executing, making good decisions, etc. ... Just do it now man.

Interesting article w/Norv.

Even in his own mind, there are just so many question marks on offense right now. I know a lot of people on here think we are loaded w/young talent on offense, but it's all potential. No one can be sure if these guys are going to be even decent, because thus far....most of them have been below average.

The only exception is the OL. Those guys have proven themselves.

For what it's worth, you were wrong about Weeden.........for last year anyhow. We'll see how this year plays out.

Nobody is "going after" you because you don't "like" Blackmon or because you don't think he will be successful. Nobody is trying to deny your right to an opinion. It's the BS faulty reasoning that you supply to try and prop up your arguments. The guy led all rookies in receiving despite playing his first nine games with the worst starting quarterback in the NFL last year. Somehow you've convinced yourself that it's because of the "amazing" Cecil Shorts, he of the 23rd-most receiving yards in the NFL last year and not through Blackmon's own abilities. Then, with only a mediocre backup QB at the helm, over the last seven games of the season he paces out at over 1400 yards (which would have put him top 6 in the NFL last year). Well, that *can't* mean he had a good rookie season because during that stretch he had the second-biggest game of any receiver in the NFL and top 7 games of all time for rookies. Since he was *too* good, we can't count that towards his accomplishments. Never mind that it happened... And against their division leader.

The problem is not your opinion. It's all the BS you puff up around it to try and make it hold water.

Who is ready for some football?!

I used Shorts as an example that a guy could be a solid receiver, even with Gabbert in the game. That's really it.

I never wanted us to draft Blackmon. I thought that he was overrated even at Oklahoma. He had solid ability, and decent size, but nothing that screamed "elite" about him. Add in the considerable character issues, and I bet that this front office is glad we didn't draft him too.

He did lead rookies in receiving ... but he did that by virtue of one massive game. I am reminded of Jerome Harrison. He had an incredible 286 yard performance week 14 in 2009. It was incredible.

He's never approached that again ... and frankly that's not a surprise. Players usually don't have those kind of games. Same for Blackmon. He had one incredible game. He's has some decent games. He's a good player. I don't know if his talent outweighs his issues. Personally, I don't think that it does. I see more Braylon Edwards (without the incredible level of talent) than Larry Fitzgerald. He'll probably be a good receiver. I question whether or not he'll be a great one. I don't think that he will be. You disagree. That's fine. It's your right. Someone will be right, and someone will be wrong. It's the same any time there is a disagreement on the ability of a player. I have watched Blackmon play, and I'm not impressed with his ability. I just don't see elite when he plays. I see "pretty good", not great. You disagree, and that's your right. We'll see who's right over time. Face it, no one is "right" yet.

We'll see what happens with his career. I've never backed down from admitting that I was wrong when it happens. (even though I rarely get the same courtesy from those who disagree with me, and who lambaste me for an opinion) Time will tell.

I watch a ton of football. I am usually in at least 3 fantasy leagues. And I also bet football a lot.

For some reason, I have no feel for Blackmon at all. And for some reason I didn't really watch much of the Jags last year. But what I do recall is he was largely disappointing for most of the season then seemed to come on decently toward the end of the season. To that effect I would tend to agree with your general premise on Blackmon, but I certainly wouldn't state it with conviction.

Clevesteve, who's opinions I generally really like, has forced me to reevaluate that position.

If you don't like him as a player, does that mean you do like him as a person? If he were a moose would you then like him?

What else is there to like him as? We only know him as a football player.

It's just a weird, ambiguous statement. A weak subjective argument.

If a football player is productive, isn't that player (by definition), a good football player? If a guy gains 3000 yards receiving you could still technically not like them as a football player.

"But yeah, he was only really productive for one game."

That game still counts. I think. If a Jaguars game is played and no one watches it, was it really played?

Blackmon was better than all of his peers (rookie wide receivers) with Yo Gabba Gabbert throwing him the ball at least part of the season. What more can you ask of a guy? (Well, maybe you can ask him to hire a driver, but I don't see how that comes into play if you only dislike him as a football player).

(Side note, I am glad we didn't draft Blackmon and didn't want to draft him at the time. I just hate your argument.)

I don't like his character. Like it or not, that enters into the equation.

I also am not convinced that he is an elite talent. Put the 2 together, and I am very happy that we passed on him.

As far as the one game ..... well, as I mentioned above .... Jerome Harrison had a tremendous one game for us, when he rushed for 236 yards. It was an absolutely incredible game. Nonetheless, he still never became a great player, despite one incredible, great, unbelievable and tremendous game. Brady Quinn once had a 300 yard, 4 TD, 0 INT game. People went nuts over that game too. I remember being the voice of caution ..... but I was told that I was nuts, a hater, and all kinds of other wonderful things. We watched Peyton Hillis have a magical year here .... only to implode afterwards. Colt McCoy once had a 350 yard game.

M point is that a player can have a great game ..... but that doesn't mean he's a great player. Sure it goes into his season total, and I don't know that anyone would argue that it doesn't. My problem is when people try to use an anomaly to project massive numbers for a guy. Does anyone think that the Jaguars can count on Blackmon for 200+ yard games on a regular basis? Of course not. No team can count on any receiver for that kind of game on a regular basis. It's a rarity ... outside the norm. Of course it counts, but the team cannot count on it.

I agree with what rish and cfrs are saying... He was unproductive at the beginning of the year and started to show what he can do the second half of the season. That just so happened to coincide with the benching of the league's worst starting QB.

I think whether he will fulfill his potential or not depends heavily on two things: if he can keep his head on straight (which appears highly quesfionable) and if he can play with a QB who can hit him in stride a reasonable amount of time... You know, what you might expect from an NFL QB.

When I wanted us to draft Blackmon, we were running a WCO. I think he is an ideal WCO fit, since he is so tough and a YAC monster. In this offense, however, I think Gordon is a better fit, as he pretty much matches the prototype of what the Chargers stocked up on over the years... Big guys with straight line speed who gained their yards with the ball in the air. Route running and the ability to throw defenders to the ground and/or make them miss (Blackmon's fortes) are secondary to getting deep and adjusting to the ball in the air (Gordon's bread and butter) now. Both Gordon and Blackmon are one strike from missing a full season if I understand the system correctly, so as a result of everything which has transpired since that draft, I think we are now better off with Gordon... But that's not why I started discussing this with you, YT.

Wasn't Gabbert hurt in that OT game against the Texans? (not benched) That was game 10, I believe.

Like I said, time will tell about Blackmon. We'll see how his career progresses.

Another qb thread derailed with wr's. Can we ever discuss qb's around here?

I will wait for season 3 to debate Blackmon. I currently prefer Gordon but it remains to be seen if either's knuckleheaditis will be terminal. Weeden vs Gabbert/Henne makes the assessments rough for both guys.

Henne started the Texans game... Gabbert left the colts Thursday night game ten days earlier in the fourth quarter after officially "reinjuring his non-throwing shoulder". Coach said he could have returned but the game was out of reach. That was the game that spawned the hilarious Jags fan gif, where disbelief is the new frustration.

*edit* ah, no sorry... The gif game was vs Tennessee.

He didn't play again last year. He was benched.

Blaine Gabbert suffers elbow injury in Jaguars' OT loss to Texans - NFL.com
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...-loss-to-texans

Jacksonville Jaguars quarterback Blaine Gabbert left in the first quarter of Sunday's 43-37 overtime loss to the Houston Texans with an elbow contusion and did not return.

The Jaguars initially labeled Gabbert's return as probable before downgrading him to questionable.

Gabbert was hurt on the Jaguars' first series when he was sacked and subsequently fumbled. Chad Henne replaced him on the Jaguars' ensuing offensive series.

You guys love attacking other posters.

I wonder how many of you actually watched the Jags last year. I know I didn't. But, you're all experts.

I'm glad we didn't take the guy. I wanted him even less than TRich. Like I said, I didn't watch much of the Jags last year. But, most accounts were that he was disappointing and he has had off the field issues.

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People complain about Weeden for a variety of reasons, and they just don't like him as a player. I don't see people going after them for having an opinion.

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I just tried defending you in my last post, but really........???

j/c...

Wow...this can be a first a QB thread morphing into a WR thread...lol

Offense. Point blank everything is new. Young players almost all new to the system being implemented...of course there are Big??? to be answered as the season wears on.

Norv is a seasoned OC that has nothing to prove. He's not going to brag or over state how well things are coming along. If anything he will most certainly show disgruntlement on not being satisfied with what we are doing. He will look for perfection in Practice and preseason and take what ever comes during the season!

JMHO

Echo your comments and concur.

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I haven't seen the accuracy in Weeden that I did in those videos.

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I wonder about how his offense was run in college and how it stacks up to what Turner is setting up here. I've read where he'll be in the shotgun more and that's the way he was in College.. is that fact or fiction?

Anyway, the point of my question is, will this offense be more like the one he was pretty good at in college?

He was in the shotgun more than 95% of his snaps in college. Traditionally, the Chargers ran higher-than-league-average shotgun percentage under Turner. Shurmur's O here was in the bottom 4 of shotgun utilization. Weeden has said there is a lot more shotgun, and that he is more comfortable in the shotgun.

One of the biggest complaints I had about the Weeden selection is that dichotomy (Shurmur's O vs. Weeden experience and skillset.) He tried running snaps under center in the Senior Bowl, stumbled over his own feet, and threw a pick. He also sacked himself vs. Arizona (again, college) on a 3 step drop off a shotgun snap.

I do have to say that his dropbacks seemed to be less of an issue that I expected them to be as a rookie, but he himself said (as almost every player does under a new coach) that he's more comfortable with this year's system than last year's.

I have to agree with Steve that this O is better designed to fit Weedens skill set.

There are a lot of other things that factor in. NFL defenses are better and faster, not to mention more complicated. The speed of the game is much faster and I could go on.



But strictly from a system standpoint, there should be a lot more shotgun than in Shurmers O and from what I've seen of Turners O in the past, it should suit Weeden much better.

So I do agree with you when you say that you believe Weedens comments to be sincere about being more comfortable in Turners O.