DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum TC Info Continued

I could be wrong. There is no proof. I just find it hard to believe he was so physical w/broken ribs. He sure didn't run like a guy who was in pain. He actually sought out contact.

Now, if he did have a vest and/or was shot-up and he wasn't feeling the pain.......then I think the excuse for his yards per carry isn't really valid.

Again, I just have my own doubts about the validity of the broken ribs being the reason for his less than spectacular performance.

My eyes told me that his problems came from lack of instincts and that he wasn't really decisive enough. Again, I am not saying he was terrible. I am not saying he can't improve. I just don't believe that the rib excuse is valid.

I'll allow you to have your opinion , but i hope you are wrong and Trent surprises everyone this season.
I do have a question about being "shot up" though. Do the meds they use to suppress pain do anything to your mental state? I would assume it has to make you at least a little "cloudy"? Can anyone educate me on the subject? Thanks!

Local anestetics are just that, local. They enter your bloodstream but typically have little effect on ones mental state. Broken ribs, shot up or not, do have an effect on your mental state. Your body still knows its injured and its natural to somewhat be gaurded of those areas. Even if it's subconscious.

very nice DDubia

On the Trent rib front.

Believe it or not I first heard about it from a Dawg who had the good fortune to sit next to Weeden's cousin on a plane flight...and he was a blabber mouth (Jackie Gleason voice) among the things he stated was that Trent had broken Ribs.

Then near the end of the season it came out. Was on several reports. Wasn't brought up as an "EXCUSE" for it to be a made up thing. It wasn't stated that was making him tentative...it was assumed by us all (I GUESS) after learning about it that it COULD be a Reason but I never read any official "Excuse" to this matter.

I don't understand the reluctance to accept this as a fact. Its been in PRINT on several occasions and did not think it was a Rumor. Maybe you got to give Trent some Props for his toughness. As you have mentioned its very painful. Laughing, Breathing deep, OMG sneezing. Btw I played my Jr. year in HS with 3 cracked Ribs. Coaches knew, didn't tell my parents cause if I went to a Dr. had to wait for a written release, Waited for the season to end. Yeah it hurt. But you can still play tough

JMHO

+1

how can you dump on a guy for playing with broken ribs AND being less than his best.

Its not an excuse, its a reason...he wasnt at 100%...story over. Would have been better without them broken? yes...oh well, live and learn. If Trent goes for 1200 and 3 more TDs we go 6-10 instead...

This talk has gone beyond ridiculous

I dont think the ribs had anything to do with the issues that I saw with Trent. He was hesitant to hit the hole and he danced his way into negative yards. This was the problem all year and he didnt have broken ribs for 15 weeks. rds.

235lbs. of power back body dancing on 3rd and inches should have had him benched. Now when he decided he wanted those yards and lowered his shoulder and moved the chains, he looked like what we paid for. He was a beast. When he was auditioning for DAncing with the stars, he looked like a future CFL player.

I am sorry whats the difference between being patient and letting the whole develop and dancing?

Of all people to pursue this. You have called Banner mentally ill several times. You have no proof to back that up, but yet you question the logic I used.?

Take a hike, mac.

I'll stick by what I said. TRich ran the same way before the injury as he did after the injury. I do not think the ribs were the reason for his disappointing season. If you and others want to believe they were, that's fine. I could care less. Just don't try to turn this into something it isn't. Oh wait, you already have.

LOL........I don't care. Seriously, I could care less of what you think of me.

Excelent post browns fans are hard to please trent will have 9,000 yards at 27 thus standing a chance at the hof and most everybody would say that it is a wasted pick.

Just so we're all clear on this whole rib injury discussion....

According to a quick search, it was the October 14th game against Cincinnati that he injured his ribs (I don't remember that far back, but that's what I found)

Before the injury : 3.57 yards per carry
After the injury : 3.55 yards per carry

It's not like his YPC dropped off drastically after the injury. So let's not use that as an excuse.

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how can you dump on a guy for playing with broken ribs AND being less than his best.

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First you have to believe his ribs were broken,, then, i f you don't, then you can justify dumping on him. that's how it works. If the facts don't fit your thinking, then disagree with the facts..

Like I said, if they shot him full of Toradol, then he probably wasn't feeling the rib during games.

That said, he also didn't practice full time during the year, which had to affect his play on the field, coordination with the line, and so on. I also think that he was used to lining up much deeper at Bama, and has to get used to taking the hand off closer to the LOS. That's another adjustment for him, and one that he had to make with practice time that was often limited.

Why do you guys insist on twisting things around. I am saying I don't buy the injured rib excuse. As Top Dawg posted, his yds. per carry were very similar before and after the injury.

Are you guys telling me you saw him running differently? Seriously?

Furthermore, did Trent EVER use it as an excuse? If so, I missed it.

I maintain that he has to improve his instincts and decisiveness. Not saying he can't or won't. Just saying that he does.

I know. I was worried that I maybe misspoke. If I did, I apologize. I think TRich is a stand-up guy. He really wants to win. He has a great attitude. Again, if I gave that impression, I apologize. I just don't see it as the reason he performed the way he did.

And again. I am not saying he was terrible. He wasn't. He was solid. I was just disappointed. I was expecting more.

Ok but can you explain to us how you feel about Trich and his ribs?

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Like I said, if they shot him full of Toradol, then he probably wasn't feeling the rib during games.

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You may be onto something there. When I had a full mouth extraction, (they pulled all my teeth in preparation for dentures), they gave me something I felt was amazing.

First thing they did was hook me up to an IV. I didn't give it much thought. I figured they knew what they were doing. Less than 10 minutes later the dental surgeon said, "Well, let's get started". I thought, "What?! He didn't even give me anything for pain yet!" But because I always give medical personnel the benefit of the doubt that they know what they're doing, at least at first, I didn't say anything but feared that if they forgot the pain meds somehow I was going through the roof once he put a pair of pliers on a tooth.

Which is what he did. I felt nothing. Nothing. It was amazing! Total pain blockage and I didn't feel even the least of a buzz. (Don't pain meds always bring a bit of a buzz with them?). But there was nothing. No pain, no buzz. I still don't understand it.

It was not local as I got it through an IV. So it was in my blood stream all over. I don't know if it continually dripped meds or if it was shut down after a time. But no part of my body felt numb, not even my mouth, just that yanking all my teeth out at once didn't hurt even a little. Nor did I enjoy even an inkling of a buzz.



If that was the kind of thing they gave TR I could fully see being able to play on it. I would also suspect that it lasts a long time because my mouth never really did hurt except when I chewed food that was too solid for those raw gums.

What would concern me is that with no feeling at his ribs and the way he played, that is, seeking out contact, I would think he would re-injure or worsen his injury each time.


From the article mac so generously posted..."For the next three or four weeks he said he needed help getting into a shower and dressing."

What puzzles me is that if you need help getting over the side of a tub for a shower or can't put your shirt on because of the pain then how in the hell do you seek out contact as a RB?!

There had to be some kind of drug being used.

Again, from the article... "The Browns listed Richardson as having a rib cartilage injury throughout the season on their injury report."

I believe that to be closer to the truth than "two broken ribs". Broken means just that, the rib bone is broken. When Big Ben had a broken rib they kept him out of a game (or two?) for fear that the broken rib could puncture his lung. It was being treated as a life threatening injury. Not for you or me but then we're not playing in the NFL where 300 pound defenders are looking to slam into our ribs. Yet TR played with "broken ribs"?

So, were they broken or was it cartilage damage as the team indicated. I vote for the latter. The things he did and the things he couldn't do don't add up to broken rib bones. Hell, even cartilage damage adds up to a badass dude playing through it even with the drugs.



a note to mac... dude, when you post an article to back up your position or to attack someone else's you might fully read the article as you may find within one article two conflicting statements.

For instance. TR says...

"Cleveland's running back revealed Monday that he played most of his first season in the NFL with two broken ribs"

The team says...

"The Browns listed Richardson as having a rib cartilage injury throughout the season on their injury report."

So which is it? "two broken ribs" or a "rib cartilage injury"?

Broken ribs better suits your stance so you use it to prove your point.

On the other hand, "rib cartilage injury" proves the, "ridiculous point of view", as you said it, of the guy you are attacking.

The way he played it sure appears as though the team statement was the more accurate of the two differing statements.

So which do you think is really correct, the player's comment or the team's statement? Because you can't have it both ways nor can you ignore one for the benefit of the other.

Wow... you've convinced me.

Of what?

I have been given Toradol for my back, and it is the only thing so far that knocks out the pain. Unfortunately, it only lasts for a week or 2, and my doctors will not give me more than 2 shots per year. It is really tough on the kidneys, and you need regular blood tests for more frequent doses.

Anyway, when I get a shot of Toradol, I fee human until it wears off. It's amazing stuff. No high, just pure pain relief. I mean complete pain relief. It is absolutely incredible stuff.

True story, and one that I think I have told before ..... my first shot of Toradol in my back resulted in me finding out that I had a hernia in my gut. I couldn't feel it when I had the pain in my back overwhelming everything else. The hernia is a different kind of pain, and it bugged the crap out of me while the Toradol was effective. I had the surgery done on that hernia shortly after, because it really bugged me. However, when the pain in my back was overwhelming everything else, I couldn't even feel it.

Being a couple of old men comparing ailments I had a hernia since 2002 and just had it repaired mid-July when I needed emergency gallbladder surgery and the hernia was in the way of one of the three incision points they make for that procedure. They gave me dilaudid for pain relief and it worked for that plus brought with it a very nice buzz which was welcome after the excruciating pain and discomfort I'd gone through the day before. hahaha




We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.....

He very well may have had broken ribs. I just don't think it effected his running as most people claim. I could be wrong, but did TRich say that was the reason he wasn't as explosive as most thought he would be? I never heard him use it as an excuse. He may have, but I really doubt it. The guys who are using it as an excuse are posters when they are trying to defend his paltry 3.6 yds per carry and why he didn't exhibit the explosion most thought he would bring.

I'm actually in agreement, somewhat.

I don't doubt that he had broken ribs.

But that's been used as a go-to excuse for Richardson, and I saw no evidence at any point during the season that he was hampered by it.

Instead of anticipating where the hole will be, he hesitated and the hole closed before he got there. Thats where a lot of the "our guards suck" comments came from. This isnt something that cant be cured. Coaching can do wonders as can just getting confidence in his legs again.

From the highlights I have seen on training camp daily, he looks to be hitting the hole then trying to make people miss instead of the other way around. This is a good thing and could put him in elite category quickly.

I was at camp today. Mike Mayock was there......guess he will be doing some sort of piece on us.

Browns WR Josh Gordon: 'I go 100 percent every day'
Aug 10, 2013 -- 8:20pm

By Tony Grossi

Observations, notes, quotes and some facts on Day 13 of Browns training camp …

* Receiver Josh Gordon made an infrequent visit with reporters after practice, and he probably wish he hadn’t. The last time Gordon faced the media was three days before camp started when he apologized for the league substance abuse infraction that resulted in a two-game suspension to start the season.

On Saturday, one of the questions touched on a report from a certain national football “insider” about “loafing” at a minicamp practice in June. To his credit, Gordon, who is still the third-youngest player on the roster in his second season, handled it like a pro.

Gordon said, “Certain people see different things when they look at me run, look at me move. It might look slow because I’m a little bit larger player at my position, so it might be a little bit deceptive, compared to everybody else (with) a little bit shorter strides, shorter movements. But I go out here 100 percent every day.”

To a question about chemistry with quarterback Brandon Weeden, Gordon said it’s “right where we want it to be, (but) you always want to work on it to get better.”

That answer prompted me to ask why Gordon, unlike Greg Little, is never seen putting in extra time with his quarterback after practice.

He answered, “Well, the past few days I’ve just been going inside … getting treatment, taking care of my body for my needs. I do other things like looking at film, and other times might not be out here but I’ll be inside catching from JUGS (machine), doing other things, stretching, stuff like that.”

I think if Gordon wasn’t so elusive after practice, he wouldn’t be deluged with negative questions as much.

* For the fourth day in a row, Trent Richardson practiced lightly and didn’t take a lot of reps in team drills. Coach Rob Chudzinski said Richardson does not receive treatment for any injury. So I asked him if it was the plan all along for Richardson to be held out for the first preseason game even if he had not aggravated the shin injury in the June offseason workouts.

“Yeah, it’s part of the overall plan,” he said. “We want him ready to go opening day.”

Chudzinski said he would wait till later in the week to divulge his plans for Richardson in the Detroit game on Thursday. Such hesitation just feeds the perception that Richardson is injury-prone.

* Chudzinski said it was not accurate to say Chris Ogbonnaya struggled as a lead blocker in the Rams game. The 225-pound running back will continue to hold down the No. 1 fullback position.

“I was pleased with what he did and what he brings to the table,” the coach said. “He’s not your typical blow-it-up fullback. He functions well enough. As he learns and gets better from a technique standpoint, that will help him. Obviously, guys like that can cut and find ways to get on guys and their athleticism helps them get on guys as opposed to just knocking guys over.”

In answer to my question, Chudzinski said he has no plans at present to copy the San Francisco 49ers and locate a big lineman to audition as a blocking fullback.

“They happen to have a guy or two that can do that,” he said. “Right now, we are just focused on our guys learning the base offense and base defense. Those types of things like crossing guys over on offense and defense, we can get to a little further down the road.”

* Joe Haden intercepted an underthrown Weeden pass intended for Gordon and later jumped a sideline route against Davone Bess and turned it into a pick 6, also thrown by Weeden.

* At the conclusion of hurry-up drives to set up a field goal, Brandon Bogotay missed wide left from 46 yards and Shayne Graham hit the right upright from 55.

http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=20941

The kid probably is a loser but in this case he is correct. It looks like he is jogging even on those 65 yard touchdowns in which he is running away from everyone.

I have my concerns about him like many others, but I got nothiing from those statements that indicated he was a loser.

What did you read that I didn't?

______________

Add to that, observations by even Dawgs in this pound that he makes the WR spot look effortless... and I wonder if his natural ability on-field translates to some as lack of effort.

Really, I'm curious... why do Gordon's quotes in this article convince you he's a loser?

Browns WR Josh Gordon defends his effort in practice, so does WR coach Scott Turner

BEREA – Josh Gordon can be frustrating to watch practice.
He doesn’t always run at top speed. He will give up on a route. He often stops as soon as the play’s over, then takes his time getting back to the huddle.
But the second-year receiver disagrees with the notion he loafs.
“I mean certain people see different things when they look at me run or look at me move,” he said Saturday after practice. “It might look slow ’cause I’m a little bit larger to play at my position. So it might be a little bit deceptive, hard to look at it.
“But I go out here 100 percent every day I come out here.”
Gordon (6-foot-3, 225 pounds) hadn’t done a group interview since the run-up to camp, when he first discussed the two-game suspension he will serve to start the season for violating the league’s substance-abuse policy. On Saturday, the subjects that put Gordon on the defensive were his effort and work ethic.
Gordon has been compared during training camp with fellow starting receiver Greg Little, who’s stayed late after nearly every practice to run routes with quarterback Brandon Weeden and/or catch balls from the JUGS machine. Gordon’s overtime shift hasn’t been as obvious.
“We actually take some of the same regimens and routines from each other, different days are different things,” Gordon said. “We pretty much have some of the same work ethics, but he’s doing a great job.”
Gordon’s practice habits were first a popular topic when he arrived in camp last year fresh off being taken in the second round of the supplemental draft.
Then-coach Pat Shurmur liked and supported Gordon but talked about his need to learn how to practice in the NFL, especially after Gordon missed his junior season when he was dismissed from Baylor for failing multiple drug tests. The coaches were all over Gordon in the quest for consistent effort.
A year later, the new staff is being asked similar questions. Receivers coach Scott Turner, the son of coordinator Norv, understands why, but doesn’t agree with the premise.
“It’s interesting because it took me awhile to kind of get used to it and I know what you’re saying,” Turner said of Gordon’s seeming lack of urgency. “But Josh is a guy that’s got a real smooth running style and you look at him and you think he’s not running hard, then you put the tape on and the corner that’s running with him who you know is fast has got his head tilted back, running as hard as he can and he can’t keep up with him. A little bit of that can be deceiving, just on Josh’s long strides and stuff like that.
“And the other thing is, in this offense we run a lot of down-the-field routes and we push those guys. So sometimes he needs to push through, he’s tired and a little bit can be some of that. He’s a young player, he’s really learning how to work and become a real threat. I’ve been happy with Josh and what he’s done so far, and I’m excited about his future in this league.”
Turner said he isn’t any harder on Gordon than the rest of his wideouts.
“He’s a little bit more of a high-profile guy, and he gets some criticism,” Turner said. “But, no, he makes plays and he has some mistakes, too, like a lot of the other guys.”
Gordon may be getting the message. He’s also becoming more comfortable in a new offensive system. He just concluded his best week of practice.
In one session, he reached behind him to make a one-hand grab look easy and jumped high for another smooth one-hander. He has had a newfound pep in his step.
“He’s playing faster and I think the nice thing about Josh this year is he’s communicating,” Weeden said. “I think if he plays fast, he’s got a lot of ability and he’s a big target, a guy that creates some mismatches.
“I’ll talk to him, but I can’t really say I get on him. You’ve got to know how to handle each guy. You’ve just got to tell them what you expect and tell them what you see.”
Gordon missed a practice early in camp with patellar tendinitis and was limited when he returned, but says he’s fine and the knee is back where he wants it to be. He started Thursday against the Rams in the preseason opener and caught two passes for 27 yards in two series that generated 10 points.
“Tendinitis is pretty much from a heavy workload, just moving a lot off the right foot, planting and stuff like that,” he said. “But really, it’s nothing more than just maintenance work, just stretching, taking care of it when I need to, just ice and stuff. Nothing more than what I can handle.”
Gordon hasn’t had an easy time dealing with the suspension.
The front office, coaches and some teammates let him know he can’t afford many, if any, more mistakes. And no matter what he accomplishes in the preseason, he must leave the team for two weeks when the games start to count.
He said he’s been able to maintain focus.
“I just go out here and get as many reps as I can, mental reps and stay in shape. And to me, these are my games,” he said. “There are pretty much my first games of the season, so I’m taking them as serious as anybody else would.”
Turner believes Gordon’s mind is right.
“He’s working and he’s doing the things he’s asked to do and he’s really progressing,” he said. “I’m excited about him as a player.
“And the other stuff (suspension), it’s obviously disappointing, but he seemed to kind of put it behind him and he wants to prove he’s going to be a good player in this league.”
It starts on the practice field. - See more at: http://chronicle.northcoastnow.com/2013/...h.VH7J6DE5.dpuf