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So, you think him saying the parents should be embarrassed was okay? Really?
Well if anyone knows about being a disappointed parent, you'd have to assume it'd be Bernie.
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I'm not going to trash Bernie for that. I feel bad for him. God, I couldn't imagine.
Look guys, I like Bernie too. But, he was constantly negative the entire night. Yes, he sees things and that is cool, but if the QB doesn't take a shot down the field on every play, he is ripping them.
I don't know...that w/the U talk, the parent talk, the St. Ed's talk, the pimping of the HS qb he knew from Florida who was trying to start at St. Ed's, etc...........it was all too much. Very unprofessional and irritating to listen to.
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Why thank you sir 
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Don't let it happen again.  lol
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Bernie could've done better. It is what it is.
At what point do you hold Bernie accountable for his lack of professionalism?
I'd say..."People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" and leave it at that. 
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Wow,sounds like Bernie was less PC than the Dropkick Murphys music I listened to while watching the game.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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What is going to happen is that because he didn't sugar-coat it, we will all lose valuable insight and gain more namby-pamby commentary by people who barely know the game compared to Kosar.
Why should this be? Do you think it is possible to point out poor play without insulting the player? Those who cannot tell the difference between criticism and insults are always the ones who lack professionalism in their public life and courtesy in their private life. Just as professionalism does not equal political correctness, it also does not equal "namby-pamby commentary." Honest criticism without insults. What's wrong with that?
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Jeff Fisher upset over Bernie Kosar's on-air comments By Chris Wesseling Around the League Writer
The Browns are reviewing the situation, according to a team spokesman. In the buttoned-up NFL world of the 21st century, we're surprised the Browns would allow an admittedly immature, marble-mouthed loose cannon in their broadcast booth even for preseason games. Link It's good to see true professional reporting after Kosar's poor choice of words. 
Last edited by Vambo; 08/11/13 06:05 PM.
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S. It's Kosar, with an S.
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I don't see any scenario whatsoever where someone would knock Bernie for acting professional. Not sure where you came up with that.
I wish I believed that. But I don't.
Could you provide one example of a similar situation?
Are you kidding? 
It happens on here all the time. Not the media I'm talking about the fans on this site and others.
Could you provide one example of a similar situation?
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Well, he did finish college with a double major in 3 years. I think you can question his allowing his emotions to influence his judgement in personal and financial affairs, but thats not really the same as having an inferior intellect. The guys a freaking savant when it comes to football.
I'm not questioning his football knowledge.
But that's not the same as having a superior intellect.
And, yeah, there is something to be said for a guy who majored in finance and economics going flat broke. People talk about college like it's some sort of proof of intellect...it's not. It can usually be a good indicator, but it's not a definite.
Not to mention...Bernie will tell you in his own words that he's an idiot.
Remember that lengthy piece on him from a few years back? The guy sounded like a mentally unstable moron.
I love him, and I always will. Cleveland always will. But let's not pretend he's a bright guy. He's kind of dumb.
I know that's about as controversial a comment as one can make in Brownsland, but it is what it is.
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What does his football knowledge have to do with his intelligence?
I thought we were talking about his football intelligence, was I wrong? I thought we were talking about his comments in the game.
Which wouldn't pertain to his football knowledge.
No one is on him because Kellen Clemens is a stud. They're on him because he was completely unprofessional, and came off sounding like an idiot.
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And, please...continue on about class and how one should talk to others...I'd love some lessons from a guy who once insinuated he wanted to fight me because he was losing an argument. 
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Wow, you're digging way back here.
That one instance? Yeah, sure.
But it was an illustration of a larger point.
It doesn't take very much for you to get incensed and fly off the handle. To the point that a small group of us have a running game where we predict what page you'll get banned when you start to throw one of your hissy fits. Yet you're doling out advice on how one should respond when provoked.
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S. It's Kosar, with an S.
I see we've suddenly become the grammar police on the board.
Something we have sorely missed and needed!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Sorry Phil, I just don't agree. He's not kind of dumb. He's not dumb at all. He's kind of human ... ya know; fallible.
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Wow, this is getting kinda ugly.
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It doesn't take very much for you to get incensed and fly off the handle. To the point that a small group of us have a running game where we predict what page you'll get banned when you start to throw one of your hissy fits. Yet you're doling out advice on how one should respond when provoked.
Again, I thought we were talking about Bernie's football knowledge. That is what was being discussed, along with Bernie's handling of it. Let's not change the subject.
In fact, if you look back, you'll see I stated that Bernie could've handled it better........as well as Fisher, and king.
You do come across as a Peter king to me. I'm sure you and your (in your words) "little group" won't see that, but, it is what it is.
What page do YOU bet I'll get booted? Wait, when's the last time I got booted?
Regardless, you insinuated Bernie was dumb. I took the "in football, he's not dumb" tact, and you went to the ".....you insinuated you want to fight me....." route.
I stuck up for Kosar and his football knowledge......then you twisted it. Even went so far as to say I "insinuated" I would fight you.
Come on man, aren't you better than that?
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Sorry Phil, I just don't agree. He's not kind of dumb. He's not dumb at all. He's kind of human ... ya know; fallible.
We'll have to agree to disagree.
If someone asked me about the intelligence level of someone who blew through millions, who makes a buffoon of himself at his current position, smashes guitars to scare away guys pursuing his soon-to-be porn model kid, doesn't know how to wash his clothes, iron a shirt, run a dishwasher, prepare food, etc. ... 'not dumb' isn't a description I'd use.
I actually feel badly, because I'm being a little harsh on the guy, but let's not pretend he's all that bright. He knows football. And that's about it.
He may have been sharper once upon a time, but I think the pain meds and the booze ate his brain away a bit.
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S. It's Kosar, with an S.
I see we've suddenly become the grammar police on the board.
Something we have sorely missed and needed!
I get it. But...........even my 13 year old daughter knows it's Kosar - not Kozar. We're not talking some random guy here. (for Browns fans anyway.)
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Again, I thought we were talking about Bernie's football knowledge. That is what was being discussed, along with Bernie's handling of it. Let's not change the subject.
For the second time, no, that's not what we were discussing.
I said from the get-go that I wasn't questioning his football intellect.
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What page do YOU bet I'll get booted? Wait, when's the last time I got booted?
The last time? I don't remember. It was awhile back, I think election season...but I do remember it started when I warned you not to start in on one of your hissy fits, because we all knew it would end with you blowing your stack and getting banned.
You took offense to that, and wound up blowing your stack and getting banned.
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Alright guys. Let's cool it for awhile. It's getting very personal and that isn't good. Okay?
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Just pokin' fun Arch. And yes, I do know the actual spelling is "poking". I meant it light heartedly.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Alright guys. Let's cool it for awhile. It's getting very personal and that isn't good. Okay?
I agree. The guy did step over the line a bit no doubt. But it's being blown way out of proportion at this juncture IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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YOU warned me. Got it.
I wish I thought half as highly of myself as you do of yourself.
But, again, we're talking about Bernie and his comments. I spoke about his football intellect. Others did too. Someone mentioned that he thought Bernie was .........no, I think it was "knew" Bernie was intelligent. And from there, you went at it so to speak.
Football knowledge - Bernie owns you, or me. No doubt.
He did have a double degree, didn't he? Got them in 3 years, if I'm not mistaken. You cannot doubt his football intelligence.......and you cannot doubt his book smarts.
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YOU warned me. Got it.
Yes, I did.
And you went and did exactly what I said you would.
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I wish I thought half as highly of myself as you do of yourself.
Right on schedule.
Look, man, it doesn't take a genius or someone bright to know when you're on the verge of one of your crybaby meltdowns, or how things are going to go when you launch into one.
As for Bernie...at this point you're being stubbornly obtuse. I've made my feelings on the matter pretty clear.
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I've made my feelings about Bernie and his comments pretty well I do believe. Also, my feelings about Fisher's comments, and kings.
Take it for what it's worth.
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Bernie Kosar will continue on Browns TV broadcasts, but team doesn’t condone his ‘personal and unprofessional approach’ during Rams game - BEREA – Browns CEO Joe Banner has weighed in regarding Bernie Kosar’s sarcastic criticism of the St. Louis Rams during the television broadcast of the preseason opener Thursday night. Kosar received a talking-to, but will continue to call the preseason games for WKYC-TV. “We don’t condone the personal and unprofessional approach that Bernie took with some of his comments during the broadcast Thursday night,” Banner’s statement read. “We’ve spoken to Bernie, he understands that, and we would expect the situation is resolved moving forward. We’ve also reached out to the Rams organization and have shared those same sentiments.” Kosar also called Rams coach Jeff Fisher today to apologize. Fisher expressed his disgust with Kosar on Saturday after Rams practice. He said he lost “a lot of respect” for Kosar, then took a personal shot. “Again, Bernie’s got his issues — they’re well-documented,” Fisher said. Kosar ripped the Rams receivers and receivers coach, and was especially harsh toward Rams No. 3 quarterback Kellen Clemens. “Bless me, Father, for I have sinned,” Kosar said. “I have to watch him the whole fourth quarter.” Clemens responded Saturday in an interview with the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. “He gave us a lot of great examples throughout his career of what it’s like to play quarterback, and how to do it at a high level,” Clemens said. “Unfortunately, he also gave us a couple of examples in his commentating career of what not to do.” - See more at: http://chronicle.northcoastnow.com/2013/...h.uSi6c5cS.dpuf
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So, you think him saying the parents should be embarrassed was okay? Really?
Well if anyone knows about being a disappointed parent, you'd have to assume it'd be Bernie.
Are you saying that because one of his daughters turned pornstar? I think I read that, do I have it right?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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BEREA, Ohio -- Browns CEO Joe Banner has reprimanded former Browns quarterback Bernie Kosar for his "personal and unprofessional approach'' during the broadcast of the preseason game against the Rams Thursday night, but he is keeping Kosar on the remaining three preseason games.
The Browns have also reached out to the Rams, and Kosar has called Rams coach Jeff Fisher, who took umbrage with his Kosar's harsh commentary.
Banner issued the following statement:
“We don't condone the personal and unprofessional approach that Bernie took with some of his comments during the broadcast Thursday night. We’ve spoken to Bernie, he understands that, and we would expect the situation is resolved moving forward. We’ve also reached out to the Rams organization and have shared those same sentiments."
Kosar, who ripped the Rams receivers, third-string quarterback Kellen Clemens and receivers coach Ray Sherman, will be back in the booth with Jim Donovan Thursday night for the second preseason game against the Lions at FirstEnergy Stadium.
In addition to Fisher observing that Kosar has well-documented issues, Sports Illustrated's Peter King asked Kosar via King's Twitter account if he had been drinking.
Kosar did not return a text message Saturday seeking comment.
More to come soon on the Kosar remarks.
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Cool.
I would hope someone representing Fishers team, and peter king, would reciprocate.
I'm not holding my breath though.
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One of Fisher's jobs, as a head football coach, is to stand up for his players -- which he did. King's job is to write observations on football happenings -- which he did.Kosar's job, as an analyst, is not to make personal attacks on players, it's to analyze football games -- he did a bad job.
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Cool.
I would hope someone representing Fishers team, and peter king, would reciprocate.
I'm not holding my breath though.
Why would they?
If I was King's employer, I'd have nothing to say, really. He asked on Twitter if Bernie was drunk, and personally, I'm kind of wondering myself. It's a valid question.
If I was Fisher's employer, I'd commend him for his restraint behind closed doors. The guy had his team trashed by a guy who's open for ridicule. Instead of ridiculing him, Fisher politely said 'look at the source', which, again, is a valid point.
There was nothing valid or appropriate about what Bernie said. There was nothing invalid or inappropriate about what Fisher or King said.
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There was nothing valid or appropriate about what Bernie said. There was nothing invalid or inappropriate about what Fisher or King said.
I don't think anyone can say it any better
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[quote][quote]There was nothing valid or appropriate about what Bernie said. There was nothing invalid or inappropriate about what Fisher or King said. [/quote]
I don't think anyone can say it any better
[/discussion] [/quote]
I disagree :grin: edit: on further review I agree :grin: (here is why)
( I seem to have turned off ubb, sorry if this looks odd)
Personal conduct is a matter of opinion so there is no way to say what was appropriate or inappropriate. But here is my take.
I think Bernie's mistake was to comment on the character of players. Suggesting they (and more importantly their parents) should be embarassed negates the fact these guys are all working their butts off. A lack of talent isn't a character flaw.
I think the begging for forgiveness line is just good comedy. It references the players performance and not his character. It isn't the kindest thing to joke about, but it was a borderline acceptable joke (and delivered to a cleveland dominated market)
I considered Fisher's retort as responsible for a coach. He isn't a journalist and had justification to fire back at Bernie's character to protect his team's ego. It wasn't mandatory, but is acceptable from a coach, but not an outside journalist. Tit for tat is fine from anyone who was directly insulted.
King is an outside observer without any need to take on Bernie's life-issues. It is important to note [b] he didn't. [/b]His question on alcohol was pertinent in terms of investigative journalism and relative to Bernie's professionalism. Bernie's experience with substance abuse and concussions are the only character questions relevant to his job performance. It was an unpleasant and controversial question to ask, but hard to argue it was unjustified or terribly malicious. Had King mentioned Bernie's life issues in the way Fisher did, he would be out of line. King only questioned Bernie's professionalism and never his personal life, and was therefore appropriate as a member of the media.
If we differentiate Fisher's response from King's it seems to me both were appropriately professional for their jobs. If we confuse the two it will seem like King was out of line.
Bernie was inappropriate in attacking the players character and mentioning their families. Who honestly should be very proud of the effort the players put in despite their lack of performance. If their screw ups were a result of laziness or not caring he would be fine, except mentioning the families which is way out of line in nearly any context.
Fisher was justified in attacking Bernie's personal life (mildly) as his responsibilities as a coach and someone who had been insulted unfairly. Tit for tat.
King was justified in mentioning Bernie's flaws that pertained to his job performance. He wasn't especially sympathetic, but he doesn't have to be. Had he delved into Bernie's daughter or businesses at all he would be majorly in the wrong.
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J/C ....... I was listening to Glenn Moore on his Sunday night show, and I think that he has it right. Announcers and pundits rip on Cleveland relentlessly ... baseball, football basketball ..... hell, they all but lobbied Lebron to get out of Cleveland ..... And Cleveland is just expected to take it. Someone from Cleveland says something rude ... but true in a way ..... about someone else ..... and it's suddenly the television analyst version of our long national nightmare.  Pundits rip Kosar for his unprofessional comments with unprofessional comments of their own. Pure class there. But, Bernie is a Cleveland guy, so it's OK if he is the victim of classless comments. Actually, the Peter King comment, as well as the NFL writer's comments, reminded me of someone else's comments I have read over the years .......... snarky, immature, downright rude ....... yet somehow couched in this voice of some pseudo, made up sense of authority and superiority. I would remind those "esteemed" writers that if you want to take the moral high ground, you don't get there by first crawling down into the mud. :rant off:
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Further update: Browns keep Bernie Kosar on telecast, say he called Rams coach Jeff Fisher to apologize for comments - Cleveland Browns - Ohio http://www.ohio.com/blogs/cleveland-brow...mments-1.420377Former Browns quarterback Bernie Kosar called St. Louis Rams coach Jeff Fisher today to apologize for the comments he made during the telecast of Thursday night’s preseason opener, a team spokesman said. And Browns CEO Joe Banner released a statement tonight in an effort to quash the controversy. “We don't condone the personal and unprofessional approach that Bernie took with some of his comments during the broadcast Thursday night,” Banner said in the statement. “We’ve spoken to Bernie, he understands that, and we would expect the situation is resolved moving forward. We’ve also reached out to the Rams organization and have shared those same sentiments.” Kosar is still scheduled to serve as an analyst for WKYC (Ch. 3) Thursday when the Browns host the Detroit Lions in their second preseason game. He has not replied to a text message from the Beacon Journal seeking comment. Either way, Kosar will likely be more careful about his commentary this week after Fisher verbally blasted him during a news conference Saturday. Fisher was responding to the critical comments Kosar made during WKYC's telecast of the Browns’ 27-19 win over the Rams. Kosar ripped third-string quarterback Kellen Clemens, the Rams’ wide receivers and the team’s receivers coach. “First off let me say this, the Cleveland Brown organization is a first-class organization from top to bottom and it has been that for years and years and years,” Fisher said Saturday. “I guess I’m a little disappointed – I feel bad for them – that they had someone doing the broadcast feel the need to speak that way about players, specifically on our team and coaches for that matter. “I’m just surprised that Bernie has such a lack of respect for players and for this game. So, to be honest with you, I lost a lot of respect for him. This game is a preseason game. Players are playing hard. It’s highly unlikely that he knew anything about our football team but felt the need to make those comments. I don’t think they were justified.” After play-by-play announcer Jim Donovan told Kosar a story about Clemens signing an autograph for the pope, Kosar said, “Bless me father for I have sinned. I have to watch him the whole fourth quarter.” Clemens told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that his family met the pope, but he didn't actually sign an autograph for him. He also addressed Kosar's harsh opinions. "He gave us a lot of great examples throughout his career of what it’s like to play quarterback, and how to do it at a high level," Clemens said. "Unfortunately, he also gave us a couple of examples in his commentating career of what not to do." Kosar also called the Rams’ receivers “horrible.” Donovan then asked Kosar, “What if some of their parents are watching?” Kosar replied by saying, “I would be embarrassed.” Kosar also took a shot at Rams receivers coach Ray Sherman. “You know, I'm checking through the itinerary here of guys, of coaches to see who the receiver coach is, to make sure I don't know this guy is,” Kosar said. “Because he's not doing very good either.” When asked how Clemens played against the Browns, Fisher defended his player. “Again, Bernie’s got his issues – they’re well documented,” Fisher said. “Kellen played well. He played hard and made plays. He got guys deep and had a drop. He played well." Kosar also received backlash from Sports Illustrated's Peter King, who wrote the following on Twitter: "My question for Kosar after comments in Cle-StL preseason game: Were you drinking? Good guy. But waaay over the top here." Now the Browns and Kosar are hoping their apologies are accepted and they can move on.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Again, what exactly is unprofessional about Fisher or King's comments?
Fisher had his team trashed. He pretty politely said 'look at the source'. That's a perfectly understandable and accurate response.
King questioned Kosar's sobriety during the game. That's a perfectly understandable and legitimate question.
If Fisher really wanted to stick it to Bernie, he could ring WKYC and say 'Fire that clown, or good luck with your access when you come into St. Louis.'
Bernie's comments were entirely unprofessional and embarrassing.
And, also...the 'we get made fun of all the time' angle? Really?
How long you been watching Browns football? How many times have you heard an announcer say that the Browns' families should be embarrassed?
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+ 1
Truthfully, if I was Fisher I probably would have lashed out in a more extreme fashion. I mean, and I like Bernie, but comments made were those that basically crossed the line and just not called for to the Rams or any team for that matter.
I'm not going to take sides, but I don't view Fisher's actions/comments as anything outta the extreme given the circumstances. I'd not expect anything less than a coach sticking up for his players/team after such an unprofessional situation unfolded. And Bernie being a drunk comment, I mean is he really lying? Is he really that outta the ballpark? Nope, it's still less extreme than saying "all the families should be embarrassed" - I mean I wonder how Jim Donovan felt? I think Bernie had put him in some uncomfortable positions as announcer after splurging out a few of those comments.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877 |
Quote:
Fisher had his team trashed. He pretty politely said 'look at the source'. That's a perfectly understandable and accurate response.
King questioned Kosar's sobriety during the game. That's a perfectly understandable and legitimate question.
Fisher could just as easily have said something like, " I heard Bernie's comments and I wholeheartedly disagree with his opinion". Then he calls Banner and bitches. But he chose to throw out, "Well, we know Bernie has had issues". If you don't think that was just as personal a jab as Bernie made then I don't know what you would consider a personal insult.
As far as King goes if you think asking if a guy is drunk isn't meant as a personal assault, well again, I cannot help you. It is also interesting to know that King has been pimping Kellen Clemens since he was drafted. So maybe, just maybe, King's comments had more to do with propping up his "boy" than they did with any unprofessionalism from Bernie.
As far as I'm concerned no one comes out of this smelling like a rose. But it's hardly as newsworthy as some media outlets are trying to make it.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024 |
I'm amazed that people are actually asking what was unprofessional about King's drunk comment. To me that was worse than anything Fisher said. I expect PDR to make a comment like that. I'm surprised by others having the same take. That was a deeply personal insult considering Kosar's background by a third party not involved in the situation at all. Why even insert yourself into it?
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Bernie as Consultant?
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