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Also, has anyone stopped to think that these guys are wanting what is essentially starting salary for a school teacher?
Think about that for a minute.
When I managed my restaurant I made right around $45,000 as a GM. That was for ac ontracted and salaried 45 hour week, which usually turned into 50 or more. (often a lot more)
At $15/hour, for a 45 hour week, the fry person would make roughly $37,000.
Yeah .... the fry person is worth the same as the GM.  I am not denigrating the fry person. They are a valuable piece of the team. However, the GM has the responsibility over the entire restaurant, and is, in essence, on call 24/7. The fry person shows up when he is scheduled, and goes home when he is scheduled to do so. He (or she) gets overtime pay if he works overtime.
As far as the minimum wage from 1963 is concerned ..... the average salary in 1963 was somewhere between $5000 and $6000 per year. At $2/hour, with a 40 hour work week, a person would have made $4150 on minimum wage. Was minimum wage work in those days worth almost middle class wages? Is it today?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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~ Legend
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jc The median age of a worker in the fast food industry is 27. These are the people who had jobs that were outsourced or laid off. These aren't teenagers anymore, but people with families who are trying to find other jobs. Graph of minimum wage across the country.  Also there's a lot of talk about what fast food workers produce to the society. They add a lot to the daily upkeep of society. 25% of the people in this country will eat fast food today. These workers are feeding 25% of the country. But do they, personally, add any real long term benefits to the country? Probably not, but neither do you. That may sound harsh, but your life's work will most likely be just as meaningless as these fast food workers are. As far as a Union strike. So be it. It's just beautiful capitalism at it's work. As for them asking for an increase that would pay them on par with teachers, that's just the sad state of Americans underselling their teachers.
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You can just call me Paul Harvey. 
The more I think about it, the federal minimum wage should be pretty darn low, then states and cities can adjust it up accordingly based on their own circumstances and whatever they feel is the best for their own little economy...
I don't have a problem with that at all. Let's face it, it costs less to live in rural Oklahoma than it does in NYC.. It's way Cheaper in parts of West Virginia than it is in DC.
So yeah, I'd think that's a good way to deal with it.
This cookie cutter mentality we seem to have where were supposed to believe one size fits all just doesn't really work.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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jc
The median age of a worker in the fast food industry is 27.
That's the funny thing about numbers. You can make them say anything you want.
Say McDonald's has 40 employees, and the average is 27 like you say.
If they have 7 guys who are 70 years old and retired, working basically for something to do (Go into a fast food place, you know those guys are there), then you have two managers at 40 years old.
Then the average age of your 30 "crew members" is 17 years old.
These facts like, "The average age is 27!" keep getting planted into peoples heads, but they don't stop to think, "How did they get to this number"
Does the 70 year old retiree, drawing his retirement really need to worry about this "livable wage" that keeps getting thrown around? No.
What about the 40 year old store manager making 35-40k a year? Does he need to worry about livable wage? Nope, he's already making it.
The fast food industry offers a lot of advancement opportunities, and if you're a crew member for a prolonged period of time, then you need to look in the mirror. The crew member jobs are largely high school/college kids and old retirees. Sprinkle in the couple lazy, unmotivated, and there's where you are getting your problem.
Why should anyone, regardless of industry, be GIVEN what they think is a "livable wage"? You want to live a comfortable life? Earn it.
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According to my friends at Wikipedia, this is the buying power of the US Minimum Wage rate in a number of US cities. I would assume that in smaller towns, it's even more favorable.
City Effective
minimum wage
Seattle $7.95
Houston $7.58
Denver $7.28
United States $7.25
Chicago $7.10
San Francisco $6.27
Los Angeles $6.07
Boston $5.69
Washington DC $5.67
New York City $4.00
You don't have to be a rocket surgeon to realize that national minimum wage rate that is fair for everybody is completely and totally impossible.
yebat' Putin
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JC..
I say give them the $15, and also tell them the counter-reaction is that the work will have to be done by half as many people, so they should point to who will lose their $7.50/hr job so that someone else can make $15.
If I am McDonalds, I am going back to hiring part-time teenage workers. They were more cheerful and polite anyway, most adults working fast food are miserable, and it shows when you're there.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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Does the 70 year old retiree, drawing his retirement really need to worry about this "livable wage" that keeps getting thrown around? No.
You should be right all things being equal, but here's that cookie cutter mentality that one size fits all... In real life, it's not like that.. there are plenty of 70 year olds working just to make ends meet or at least make things easier..
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What about the 40 year old store manager making 35-40k a year? Does he need to worry about livable wage? Nope, he's already making it.
I guess it's a matter of perspective. I don't call 35 to 40K a livable wage.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I guess it's a matter of perspective. I don't call 35 to 40K a livable wage.
Well you can't eat Filet Mignon every night but 35k/yr is more than livable. Maybe not in NY City but in Ohio no problem.
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You don't call 30-40k a livable wage? Are you kidding me? 30k, after taxes is bringing home $1900/month, give or take, a month. Renting an apartment for $600 a month, utilities for $200 a month, and you're still left with $1100 a month. 4.33 weeks per month, that's $255 per week left over after paying your rent and utilities. That's not livable? 
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~ Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
jc
The median age of a worker in the fast food industry is 27.
That's the funny thing about numbers. You can make them say anything you want.
Say McDonald's has 40 employees, and the average is 27 like you say.
If they have 7 guys who are 70 years old and retired, working basically for something to do (Go into a fast food place, you know those guys are there), then you have two managers at 40 years old.
Then the average age of your 30 "crew members" is 17 years old.
These facts like, "The average age is 27!" keep getting planted into peoples heads, but they don't stop to think, "How did they get to this number"
Does the 70 year old retiree, drawing his retirement really need to worry about this "livable wage" that keeps getting thrown around? No.
What about the 40 year old store manager making 35-40k a year? Does he need to worry about livable wage? Nope, he's already making it.
The fast food industry offers a lot of advancement opportunities, and if you're a crew member for a prolonged period of time, then you need to look in the mirror. The crew member jobs are largely high school/college kids and old retirees. Sprinkle in the couple lazy, unmotivated, and there's where you are getting your problem.
Why should anyone, regardless of industry, be GIVEN what they think is a "livable wage"? You want to live a comfortable life? Earn it.
You're getting median confused with average. If your situation would be true (which it's not), then the median age would be 17.
Being in unions and going on strike is earning your wage. I know it might sound weird to people who believe CEO's should have everything handed to them, but that's the truth.
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If the median age is 27, can you explain to me how 64% of fast food workers are under the age of 25?
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Legend
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You don't call 30-40k a livable wage?
Are you kidding me?
30k, after taxes is bringing home $1900/month, give or take, a month.
Renting an apartment for $600 a month, utilities for $200 a month, and you're still left with $1100 a month.
4.33 weeks per month, that's $255 per week left over after paying your rent and utilities.
That's not livable? [/quote)
You forgot things like Phone, Cable TV, Clothes, Hair cuts (yes, I still have a full head of hair). You forgot that it's not just me, I have a wife also. You forgot car insurance, renters insurance, health insurance, a night out a couple times a month and much more.. Then you have to have something left over to save.
Apparently you missed the part about it depending on perspective.. For me, for the way I like to live, for the way I like to save for the future and for my age (being a lot closer to 65 than to 27) it's not enough for me to call it livable.
And nothing you've said takes into account the cost of living always being on the rise and no guarantee that your wages will keep up. You have to be able to plan for that as well.
Does that make it clearer for you?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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How you "like to live" is completely irrelevant to this conversation.
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I'd like to eat steaks and shrimp for dinner every night and drive a brand new Ferrari, does that mean my boss should pay me $100k a year so I can earn my "livable wage"?
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Dawg Talker
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you're getting by, but it's far from living comfortable. When you don't have enough to save and enjoy yourself, the job is not worth having unless there are more opportunities to make more money.
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How you "like to live" is completely irrelevant to this conversation.
It's relevant to me! Like I said, it's all about perspective., Bu you don't want to hear that, you just want to argue...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I don't want to hear it, because your personal lifestyle has nothing to do with what's a "livable wage"
Like I said, if I want to eat $100 steak dinners every night and drive a Ferrari, because that's the lifestyle I want, should my boss automatically pay me $100k a year so I can earn that livable wage?
Come on, Daman...
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I guess it's a matter of perspective. I don't call 35 to 40K a livable wage.
You would be correct. It IS a matter of perspective. In NY, 35 K is probably tough. In n.w. ohio, 35K is doing okay (especially if you're talking fast food employee).
Shoot, my wife didn't make 35K last year, and she's been at the same job for 22 years. She is what most would call "general labor"......works in a factory, but has a good job. She's not on the line, so to speak.
Perspective: The guy making 70 k a year can't fathom making only 35. The guy making 20K a year would love to make 35K.
Perspective: The guy making 500K a year would be scared of making only 100K a year.
Cost of living. I'm not sure who mentioned it, but why is the federal minimum wage the bench mark for every area in this country? That seems to be similar to having the federal gov't. mandate a minimum driving speed of, say, 50. 50 is nice. But it's impossible in city driving. It's way too slow for highway or rural driving.
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Legend
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I'd like to eat steaks and shrimp for dinner every night and drive a brand new Ferrari, does that mean my boss should pay me $100k a year so I can earn my "livable wage"?
You couldn't even touch that life on 100K a year.. again, perspective.. I mean the car payments and insurance on that ride would eat you alive..
No employer owes you anything other than the wage you accept the position for and even then, only as long as you do your job.
Don't try to turn this into Class Warfare. If you want more out of life, work harder or smarter or get a new job.. do whatever you have to (by legal means) to earn what you want.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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You don't call 30-40k a livable wage?
Are you kidding me?
30k, after taxes is bringing home $1900/month, give or take, a month.
Renting an apartment for $600 a month, utilities for $200 a month, and you're still left with $1100 a month.
4.33 weeks per month, that's $255 per week left over after paying your rent and utilities.
That's not livable?
Well...dive into it deeper.
Have a car? Insurance? Gas? Even without a payment, you're probably looking at $250 month.
Cable TV and Internet? Probably another $100
Plan on eating? Unless Ramen noodles is your thing, it's probably another $200 for groceries and if you plan on eating at a restaurant 2 times a month, that's probably another $50 or more.
Cell phone? $50? (I'm honestly not sure anymore)
That's $650 out of that $1100 and that's before any other possible expenditures such as health insurance, car repairs and unknown expenses. Not to mention that there isn't much room for retirement savings or entertainment (such as...ya know...going to a Browns game  )
That's barely making a real living. Possible? Yes, but not a "good" living wage.
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*In Baker we trust*
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Cable TV, Internet, and cell phones are luxuries, not necessities. I make plenty more than $30k a year and don't have internet at home, trust me, you can get by without it. 
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Yea I lived off 35k 5 years ago, and I barely had 200-300 left over to put away. And that was running a very tight budget. I was wearing clothes that were 5-10 years old. Throw in a few credit cards, and student loan debt, and there really isn't much left. I might have went for entertainment a few times a month, and maybe 1 vacation a year.
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Once again, I think that this is a matter of geography. My one bedroom place that I found moving to Miami is $1,060 and two bedrooms can cost $1,800+ and rental on a two bedroom house is $2,500+ a month. It makes it a lot harder. Upon moving here, we went with the one bedroom because it would be too tight with only me having a job at the time to get a larger place. Now granted, in another few years after my student loans are paid off, I'll have a LOT more freedom.
Now, while things are tight, we certainly aren't destitute. We are paying extra money each month into retirement funds and I'm paying way more than I need to on my student loans to get them paid off. We set aside two years ago a stacking plan to pay down our debts starting with our credit cards, now that is done so that extra money is going to the loans.
Even losing that, it would be awefully tough to live on $35k here.
Also, sorry, but a lot of jobs that cell phone isn't a luxury but rather a necessity. I cannot do my job without it. Granted, I get to write off a portion of it on taxes because of that. But that smart phone isn't a luxury anymore. Now that everyone has one, it is a disadvantage not to have one in some jobs and puts you behind the 8 ball.
Last edited by ~Con~Artist~; 08/29/13 03:47 PM.
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Quote:
Quote:
I guess it's a matter of perspective. I don't call 35 to 40K a livable wage.
You would be correct. It IS a matter of perspective. In NY, 35 K is probably tough. In n.w. ohio, 35K is doing okay (especially if you're talking fast food employee).
Shoot, my wife didn't make 35K last year, and she's been at the same job for 22 years. She is what most would call "general labor"......works in a factory, but has a good job. She's not on the line, so to speak.
Perspective: The guy making 70 k a year can't fathom making only 35. The guy making 20K a year would love to make 35K.
Perspective: The guy making 500K a year would be scared of making only 100K a year.
Cost of living. I'm not sure who mentioned it, but why is the federal minimum wage the bench mark for every area in this country? That seems to be similar to having the federal gov't. mandate a minimum driving speed of, say, 50. 50 is nice. But it's impossible in city driving. It's way too slow for highway or rural driving.
It is all about perspective and desires. I want to live a certain way.. I can't do it on 35 to 40k a year., can't happen. Not for me anyway. So, for me, It's not livable.
As for federally mandated minimum wages, I don't know why they have to be liviable wages.
Talk to employers in your area. Ask them what they get for Min Wage? You might be surprised.
You are self employed right Arch? (I seem to remember that, but I could be wrong) If you want to hire help, can you get what you need for Min Wage?
Point is, min wage is a guideline, I actually don't know any company that is ONLY paying that amount because in most cases, they can't get workers that like for min wage.
I'm in the Temp Services business. I just interviewed a guy that just got out of John Carroll with a degree in Computer Science. He wants 50 to 55k a year to start and he'll get it. *(he graduated in May, but took the summer to travel europe on his parents,, Gift for Graduating so high in his class)
He will get that money.. No problem. He interviewed with me and in a little while, I will present him to a client in Solon that,unless he takes a "we we" on the bosses desk, He'll get hired.
And there will be several companies competing for his services.. Guaranteed.
But, in all fairness, I'm sure there are plenty of employers trying to get by with the low wages and they simply accept the turnover that comes with it.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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This argument over what constitutes a livable wage rages every single time this topic comes up... so what should a single person, we'll say age 28, have to spend in Hypotheticalville, USA? Go ahead and fill them in.....
Rent/Mortgage:
Renters/Homeowners Insurance:
Health Insurance:
Car:
Car Insurance:
Auto Gas:
Gas/Electric:
Cable/Internet:
Phone (Cell or home or both):
Food and Consumables:
Entertainment:
Short Term Savings:
Retirement Savings:
Misc. (Did I forget anything?):
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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This argument over what constitutes a livable wage rages every single time this topic comes up... so what should a single person, we'll say age 28, have to spend in Hypotheticalville, USA? Go ahead and fill them in.....
Rent/Mortgage: In Aurora Oh, your talking 1200.00 per month But let's go with 600.00.
Renters/Homeowners Insurance: in Aurora Ohio your talking 125.00 per year (10.50 per month)
Health Insurance: A healthy guy or gal can get insurance for about 350.00 a month on his own with a 2500 deductable right now. Not sure what will happen 1/1/14.
Car: Good credit, they can lease a new car for about 135.00 a month (all kinda deals out there)
Car Insurance: wow, depending on driving record, it could be as little as 50.00 per month
Auto Gas: 200.00
Gas/Electric: 120.00
Cable/Internet: 50.00
Phone (Cell or home or both): 50.00
Food and Consumables: if you live cheap and can eat on 15.00 a day, 450.00 a month
Entertainment: 100.00
Short Term Savings: Assume savings bonds 17.50 per month Won't get you very far
Retirement Savings: 150.00
Misc. (Did I forget anything?): Clothes, haircuts (assuming you have hair), shaving cream, razors. did you already own your own furniture and pots and pans and dishes and apartment cleaning supplies etc? maybe another 200.00 per month
I'm probably off, but rough estimate is 2533.00 clear. That's probably about 3292 a month Gross or 39514.00.
But, don't get sick and have to pay the deductable. don't have a car accident because you won't be able to pay the increase in car insurance or the deductable on your car repair and since you are leasing, you have to get it fixed or they'll hit you when you turn it in. Speaking of that, don't go over your allowed miles per year or they'll hit you for that at the end of the lease.
And I don't know how anyone can survive on 5 dollars a meal? I mean, and Egg McMuffin is what, 3 bucks or so.Add coffee and you are at 4 bucks. that leaves you 11 bucks for the rest of the day. Don't get hungry.. you'll be starving in no time. Not sure you can eat healthy on that... anyone been grocery shopping lately? That's an eye opener..
If you need to buy furniture and all the things it takes to run a house hold, you either gotta have someone that will give you the money or you gotta finance it. that's another couple of hundred a month (there goes your savings.)
If fact, you'd have to live a perfect life where nothing ever goes wrong for that to work out well for you.
that's also assuming you have no school loans.. add that in and things get crazy in a hurry.
Are there people doing it on less.. Oh hell yeah. One of the big savings is rent. if your willing to live in a less than great area, you can get an apartment in NE Ohio for 350.00 to 400.00 per month. That's huge.. if you can get some second hand furniture to hold you over until you make more or can afford more monthly. heck that could be great.
If you live in a rural area, I mean really rural, you could get a cheaper rent I'm sure. But if you live in a rural area, do you have to add in cost of gas to get to work?
Or do you trade that in, live on a bus line, pay a little more for rent but don't buy a car thus taking out car payments, gas, maintence and insurance. that could work.
If you got nothing of value, why get renters insurance.
You could also skip trying to save money., dumb, but doable I guess.
A beater car can be had cheap enough, but then you have to factor in repairs that will happen.
Can it be done,, you betcha., But here is where perspective comes into play. I don't want a thing to do with living like that. I'm 61, I've already been there and done that. I ain't going back..
That's why I say, 35 to 40 k isn't livable for me.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
This argument over what constitutes a livable wage rages every single time this topic comes up... so what should a single person, we'll say age 28, have to spend in Hypotheticalville, USA? Go ahead and fill them in.....
Rent/Mortgage:
Renters/Homeowners Insurance:
Health Insurance:
Car:
Car Insurance:
Auto Gas:
Gas/Electric:
Cable/Internet:
Phone (Cell or home or both):
Food and Consumables:
Entertainment:
Short Term Savings:
Retirement Savings:
Misc. (Did I forget anything?):
Everything can be different from person to person and situation by situation.
Perhaps someone lives close to work and can walk/bike. So no car payment or insurance payment and they can afford a little bit nicer home/apt.
Key is to live within your means. If you are only making 35k/yr (whether it's ideal for your wants or not) you will have to skimp on some of the items above. So instead of a new 4dr Sedan or a New Truck you have a 12yo car with 120,000 miles on it that was given to you by your uncle. No payment and just liability insurance.
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I wouldn't bother to include any sort of savings into that equation.
I haven't looked in awhile, and don't feel like it right now, but last I saw we had something like 60% of the population who had any sort of retirement plan or fund. I'd be willing to bet if you combed through that 60%, a lot of it would be laughable.
We don't really have an economy anymore to sustain that sort of thing. Not for a huge chunk of the population, anyway. I'd argue that days of savings being a part of a living wage are long gone.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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Wow! $250/month for car insurance and gas, even without a car payment? My car insurance is $30/month, and that's not state minimum. I have an excellent driving record, and combined my car insurance with my home. I have 1st accident forgiveness, and my rate is otherwise locked in for life. If I change coverages and/or vehicles, or have more than 1 accident, then they could raise my rates. I would have to drive a LOT each month to hit that number, without a car payment. lol I usually use about $60 in gas now. I am not working though. However, even when I was working, I only drove 3 miles to and from work. Even my old truck wasn't more than $100/month in gas. I use a prepaid cell phone, and it's $32 for 2 months. (tax included, with limited minutes) However, I don't use my cell phone a great deal, so it's easy to roll over those minutes to the point where I have something like 2000 minutes available. When I was working, I had Sprint, and paid them $30/month and IIRC, I got something like 1000 minutes/month. I'm not a texter, and I don't have extended conversations on the phone, so that was more than sufficient for me. When I was working, my expenses were around $1500/month. That included $75/month in "wasteful" spending money, (to blow on whatever crap caught my eye) food, utilities, internet, gasoline, insurance, groceries, and so on. My grocery bill was slightly lower because I could eat a meal or 2 at work.  I also managed to go out once or twice per week. (over and above my impulse spending fund) People can live a fairly nice life, even on less money, if they put their minds to not outspending what they make. When I went onto disability because of my back, I took about a $1000/month hit on my income. However, I was always tight with a buck, so my monthly bills never came close to that. I still always try to save a little each month, and even if I can only throw $20 or $30 into savings, I still try to do so. It can be done, and a person can live a pretty nice life. Sure they might not drive a brand new car every 3 years, live in a $500,000 house, or anything like that ...... but a single person can get by quite nicely on $30-$40K/year, even buying their own home and so on.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,095
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,095 |
Quote:
Cable TV, Internet, and cell phones are luxuries, not necessities.
I make plenty more than $30k a year and don't have internet at home, trust me, you can get by without it.
Good for you,, I don't want to live without.. Got it?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Nov 2008
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,705 |
Quote:
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If the median age is 27, can you explain to me how 64% of fast food workers are under the age of 25?
You mean 35.
http://www.epi.org/publication/wage-workers-older-88-percent-workers-benefit/
Just talking about the numbers, and not the subject matter.
We are confusing median with mean. Median (by itself) means ABSOLUTELY nothing in this conversation. The median is simply the number in the middle (splitting the upper and lower halves of the population).
As with most things, you really need the population distribution to glean any useful information out of these numbers.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,887
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Quote:
Cable TV, Internet, and cell phones are luxuries, not necessities.
I make plenty more than $30k a year and don't have internet at home, trust me, you can get by without it.
Good for you,, I don't want to live without.. Got it?
But you are someone who acquired the skill set to make more than 35k so you can have your wants. But if you didn't your wants mean squat and you would learn to have to live with out.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
Quote:
Cable TV, Internet, and cell phones are luxuries, not necessities.
I make plenty more than $30k a year and don't have internet at home, trust me, you can get by without it.
Good for you,, I don't want to live without.. Got it?
That's understood at this point. However, correct me if I'm mistaken, but wasn't this argument started over the term 'living wage'?
By definition:
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In public policy, a living wage or subsistence wage is the minimum income necessary for a worker to meet basic needs. These needs include shelter (housing) and other incidentals such as clothing and nutrition
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a wage that is high enough to maintain a normal standard of living.
Those definitions can certainly shift by region, but, no, 'this is how I want to live' does not constitute the definition of a living wage.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704 |
Quote:
Quote:
Cable TV, Internet, and cell phones are luxuries, not necessities.
I make plenty more than $30k a year and don't have internet at home, trust me, you can get by without it.
Good for you,, I don't want to live without.. Got it?
I understand that.
I refer you back to my Ferrari. I don't want to live without it. Unfortunately I don't make enough money to afford one, so I'm currently living without one. Does that mean I'm not making a livable wage?
Whether you WANT to go without something is not relevant to this discussion.
I don't understand why YOU don't get THAT. 
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Thanks for the response... Quote:
Misc. (Did I forget anything?): Clothes, haircuts (assuming you have hair), shaving cream, razors. did you already own your own furniture and pots and pans and dishes and apartment cleaning supplies etc? maybe another 200.00 per month
Shaving cream, deodorant, razors etc was the consumables part of the food budget (basically the grocery store budget)
I assumed at 28 you already had some basic pots and pans and cheap silverware and plates.. if not you could outfit the whole kitchen for $200.
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And I don't know how anyone can survive on 5 dollars a meal? I mean, and Egg McMuffin is what, 3 bucks or so.Add coffee and you are at 4 bucks.
I can make an egg mcmuffin and a cup of coffee at home for about seventy-five cents.... If you live cheap you can eat for about $4-5 a day. A box of spaghetti noodles is $2 a jar of sauce is $4... that's $6 and it will make about 8 meals worth of spaghetti... so you have to eat leftovers for a few days and don't get a ton of variety, deal with it. I feed a family of 4 on not much more than $15/day.... and we eat pretty well. (that doesn't include going out once in a while, which I consider a luxury that I can afford... if you can't afford it, don't do it.)
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Are there people doing it on less.. Oh hell yeah. One of the big savings is rent. if your willing to live in a less than great area, you can get an apartment in NE Ohio for 350.00 to 400.00 per month. That's huge.. if you can get some second hand furniture to hold you over until you make more or can afford more monthly. heck that could be great.
Or you could get a roommate... if a 1 BR is $600, then a 2 BR is probably $850 so your portion is now $425, the utilities won't be much more so you just cut that in half too.
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Can it be done,, you betcha., But here is where perspective comes into play. I don't want a thing to do with living like that. I'm 61, I've already been there and done that. I ain't going back..
That's why I say, 35 to 40 k isn't livable for me.
Oh I get that, but we aren't talking about a 61 year old business owner who has made a lot of good choices, we are talking about a single 28 year old who needs to survive while he/she figures out what he/she wants to do with their life.
yebat' Putin
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186 |
It's when things break. I had a used 2002 chrysler 300, and the transmission needed work, which cost me $800. Same thing if you get sick, and need time off from work. $800 was almost a full check for me. Then you start charging, and the debt piles up quickly. I'm sorry, but it's very tough to get by on those wages.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Fast Food workers plan to strike
Aug 29, want $15 hr
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