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You are presented with facts...facts you cannot dispute...facts that derail your argument...so you resort to the extreme to divert the argument.
Could you please point out the facts that I cannot dispute? That derail my argument?
He said that 72% of blacks are born to unwed mothers.
Unless he forgot to clarify, he's making that a causation based on race.
Now, if we took the black population, and separated them between poor/uneducated and upper-lower/middle/upper class/educated, do you think we would find a shift in those percentages?
And if so, how would one still conclude that race is the main factor of causation?
Also, how is it an 'extreme' to state that he basically said 'the problem is black people'?
That's pretty much what he said. He wasn't mincing words.
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I said the incident appears to have been put in motion by a case of racial profiling, and it does.
Ok...a new term. Again I say...how does it appear to be racial profiling?
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I then went on to say that I didn't know for certain.
You didn't start out that way. So let me get this straight. To YOU - with no evidence to prove or disprove - it appears to be racial profiling...but you are not certain.
Classic.
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Too many spineless people afraid of being called racist...which I've seen you did above.
As I said...he's not really hiding it, is he?
I see you as being much closer to speaking in a racist fashion than I see Nelson. Not ONE thing he said was untrue. I guess facts now equate to racism.
Last edited by WSU Willie; 08/30/13 10:06 AM.
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He said that 72% of blacks are born to unwed mothers.
He said exactly that.
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Unless he forgot to clarify, he's making that a causation based on race.
Unless he forgot to clarify? What? YOU are making the causation based on race. He stated a fact...you read into what you wanted to.
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Now, if we took the black population, and separated them between poor/uneducated and upper-lower/middle/upper class/educated, do you think we would find a shift in those percentages?
Surely. That would not explain or solve the problem...and the overall % would still be an incredible 72%.
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And if so, how would one still conclude that race is the main factor of causation?
The only person you have to argue that conclusion with is yourself.
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Also, how is it an 'extreme' to state that he basically said 'the problem is black people'?
Primarily because he didn't say that...or imply that.
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That's pretty much what he said. He wasn't mincing words.
That's NOT what he said and you are correct in that he wasn't mincing words.
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Quote:
Quote:
Also, how is it an 'extreme' to state that he basically said 'the problem is black people'?
Primarily because he didn't say that...or imply that.
Would you care to tell me what you think he meant when he said:
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There is a definite problem, and it ain't 'Whitey'
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Now, if we took the black population, and separated them between poor/uneducated and upper-lower/middle/upper class/educated, do you think we would find a shift in those percentages?
Surely. That would not explain or solve the problem.
Actually, yes, it would.
You're like a parody of yourself this morning. 
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The women having the babies are black, the murderers doing the killing are black, the numbers are very high. Seems like race is a factor. Most people with the brains god gave a walnut might guess that there are always other factors, and causation can often be endlessly debated to no real purpose, but there certainly is a connection of some sort.
I don't care if they are purple, pink, or polka-dotted, there's a problem.
Trolls disgust me. Makes me feel like I need to scrape something offensive off the bottom of my shoe. I don't even feel pity for them anymore.
Spending your day figuring out how to try and annoy other people is just sad.
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Spending your day figuring out how to try and annoy other people is just sad.
I don't spend my day trying to figure out anything. There's nothing to figure out.
If I feel like responding to you, I do, and you usually go through the roof, depending on how much time I spend on the conversation. I laugh and move on.
There's not a lot of thought or effort to it. I will agree with you that winding up a person you believe to be mentally unstable for a laugh is pretty sad, but it is what it is. I can live with it.
My point was the whole 'I don't give a crap what you say' thing comes off as kind of silly when you say it to someone who can make your blood boil with a few responses.
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Just one problem with that, philly old boy.
I am laughing at YOU.
Have a NICE freakin' Day!
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Willie -
I once read a novel about Detroit and the car industry. A man had the job of recruiting and managing poor inner-city workers for a car maker.
They described a bunch of social outreach programs, an incredible amount of do-gooder yadda yadda babble that failed to solve the problem.
The man in the book's most important act was to go out and buy a bunch of cheap, wind-up alarm clocks and set them for the workers so that they could show up on time, even if their power was out.
Simple, direct action to address the problem instead of whining about who's fault it was.
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At the time, I thought that proving you to be a liar might be of service to the community. I have since come to understand that most everybody already knows.
You do have some entertainment value, though. It is also good to be reminded that such as you are fairly common.
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Delusions of grandeur, right on cue. Speaking of which, pulling up that thread, I realized I'd never noticed this gem before: Quote:
I don't want him banned, I'm not thru with him yet.
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Quote:
Quote:
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Also, how is it an 'extreme' to state that he basically said 'the problem is black people'?
Primarily because he didn't say that...or imply that.
Would you care to tell me what you think he meant when he said:
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There is a definite problem, and it ain't 'Whitey'
There is a problem with the rate of fatherless births in this country...and that problem is not because of something the white race - or any other race - has done or not done.
The fact that the black community has such a high rate indicates that something is wrong...and the leaders of that community are unfortunately silent/quiet about the issue.
Did we have this kind of a problem 40 years ago? Did poor and/or uneducated fathers make babies and split without a hint of care? Did poor or uneducated woman have baby after baby with these men without a concern for how to care for them?
I honestly don't know.
In the end, I took Nelson's comments as him seeing that fatherless births are a huge problem in this country...and the black community has an unusually high rate...but no one wants to speak about the problem or how to fix it. But people WILL blame or imply blame on everyone and everything except the offending father.
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C'mon, philly, your playbook is getting a bit long in the tooth. Surely you can come up with something new?
Discuss amongst yourselves, get your little group together. If you all put your minds to it, maybe you can come up with something adult to say.
Ya gotta dream big, son, ya gotta dream big.
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Let's walk through this once more, because I want to understand your line of thinking here...
Nelson makes a post where he discusses the black community. Not only in terms of unwed births, but also relating to crime statistics.
After this, he concludes by saying "There is a definite problem, and it ain't 'Whitey'.".
Just to make sure that everyone knows he isn't talking about larger socioeconomic issues, but rather a specific race, he throws in mention of Hispanics and the Chinese and how they'll have to deal with the 'problem'.
You call my argument 'extreme'.
I ask what's extreme about saying his statements boiled down to 'the problem is black people'.
You claim he didn't say or imply that.
I show you where he did, directly.
Does that sum it up? Did I miss anything?
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So, just for clarification, you and Willie are arguing that the two individuals who bludgeoned the WW2 vet to death did it because they are black?
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So, just for clarification, you and Willie are arguing that the two individuals who bludgeoned the WW2 vet to death did it because they are black?
It was because the victim was white ! Or maybe because they were young and the victim was old or because they were the product of an unwed mother/broken home ? They were on the wrong side of the socioeconomic tracks ? Oh I am confused .
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To clarify in short sentences - Two black people killed somebody. This happens a lot.
I see that as a problem. I see few people address this. I often see such actions excused. I see little being done to cause it to happen less often.
Repeat for black, unwed mothers.
Cue the fake outrage and cries of racism.
There is a whole series of problems within the black community, and the solutions for the most part must come from within the black community. Too many people pointing the finger elsewhere and making excuses and crying "Racist!" are making the problems worse and not better.
Just because a black man walks in the forest, does not mean there is a Klan member out to kill him with an axe.
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Wait, I have a group now? I thought everyone on the board thought I was a liar?
And I don't think pointing out that your post was blatantly racist is ignoring any problems regarding crime or unwed birth rates.
It's just pointing out that you made a racist post.
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You should let Mantis play the smart one, he's better at it than you.
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This isn't a two way street or an even playing field.
You're pretty much a punchline in my eyes. You're easy to mess with because your arguments are absurd, and your stories are ludicrous, and it doesn't take much to send you off on maniacal tangents.
But there's not really a give and take here. Your barbs not only don't bother me, they make me smile.
I know a big part of your angle here has been to sort of adopt my attitude, but again, your actions betray your attempted notion that you feel the same towards me.
When you think someone is a joke, you usually don't maniacally accuse them of things, or start odd threads about them.
I don't know why you care so much about what I say, but it's pretty clear that you do. I get under your skin. And I hate to tell you, but that isn't a two way street.
You can't really rile me, or bother me, because frankly I don't think much of you outside of someone who's easy to mess around with.
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Well this thread sure did take an interesting turn.
yebat' Putin
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Whatsa matter, philly, nobody wants to play your game anymore?
Do you and your group use a Captain Marvel Secret Decoder Ring, or what?
You mentioned them in another thread, did you forget? I can understand that.
You really do need some new material, though.
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Please, by all means, keep rambling.
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That's the spirit, philly, attempt to adapt and overcome!
I guess the ring's a secret, then, eh? Mum's the word, but you have to promise to show me the secret handshake!
What's the initiation, kicking a small dog or shoving a little old lady down the stairs?
Sorry, I'm just not up on what pathetic losers do for a good time, these days.
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That's the spirit, philly, attempt to adapt and overcome!
I guess the ring's a secret, then, eh? Mum's the word, but you have to promise to show me the secret handshake!
What's the initiation, kicking a small dog or shoving a little old lady down the stairs?
Sorry, I'm just not up on what pathetic losers do for a good time, these days.
I'm pretty sure calling someone a 'pathetic loser' is a fast track to banned camp.
But, again, please, by all means, keep rambling. This is great.
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I'm pretty sure a self-admitted troll is the definition of a pathetic loser, but hey, that's just like, you know, my opinion, dude.
Ooh, are you gonna tell the teacher on me?
New material, son, new material. Step it up, you can do better. Prob'ly getcha a nice ice cream cone if you really, really try.
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I'm pretty sure a self-admitted troll is the definition of a pathetic loser, but hey, that's just like, you know, my opinion, dude.
Ooh, are you gonna tell the teacher on me?
New material, son, new material. Step it up, you can do better. Prob'ly getcha a nice ice cream cone if you really, really try.
This is too good.
Once again, please, keep going.
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So, just for clarification, you and Willie are arguing that the two individuals who bludgeoned the WW2 vet to death did it because they are black?
If that is what you have concluded from the many posts in this thread, then I cannot help you.
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Let's walk through this once more, because I want to understand your line of thinking here...
Nelson makes a post where he discusses the black community. Not only in terms of unwed births, but also relating to crime statistics.
After this, he concludes by saying "There is a definite problem, and it ain't 'Whitey'.".
Just to make sure that everyone knows he isn't talking about larger socioeconomic issues, but rather a specific race, he throws in mention of Hispanics and the Chinese and how they'll have to deal with the 'problem'.
You call my argument 'extreme'.
I ask what's extreme about saying his statements boiled down to 'the problem is black people'.
Boiled down to? Boiled down to? What? I didn't see it that way.
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You claim he didn't say or imply that.
He didn't say that...you think he implied it. I do not think he did.
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I show you where he did, directly.
No you didn't...because it didn't happen...unless there was a post deleted that I missed.
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Does that sum it up? Did I miss anything?
No to the first question...yes to the second
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Quote:
Quote:
I show you where he did, directly.
No you didn't...because it didn't happen...unless there was a post deleted that I missed.
Right here:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Also, how is it an 'extreme' to state that he basically said 'the problem is black people'?
Primarily because he didn't say that...or imply that.
Would you care to tell me what you think he meant when he said:
Quote:
There is a definite problem, and it ain't 'Whitey'
I admire your attempt at spin (I don't mean that facetiously - are you in PR or law?) , but if you read the whole post, in context, he pretty much said 'blacks are the problem' in such a manner that pretty much obliterates any defense. The problem wasn't 'unwed births', as you tried to say. Read the grammatical context. He cites a singular 'problem'. It's not unwed births, or violent crime, or whites, or Hispanics, or the Chinese...hmm...what could it be?
Not to mention...maybe you're wasting your talents backing the wrong horse. It took the guy less than an hour to melt down into name calling and nonsensical rants.
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...but if you read the whole post, in context, he pretty much said...
Look PDR...he DID NOT say 'blacks are the problem". He simply DID NOT say that.
In 'context'? How about 'in your mind'.
Pretty much? What? Pretty much? You keep saying he used those words...but he did not. Now you say he 'pretty much' used those words. But he simply did not...yet you continue to use that as the basis of the argument and pretend that such is even the point.
Wait..no wonder you are confused. You read into it what you wanted to see...and when it wasn't there...you pretty much saw it there. But that doesn't make it exist.
Now you need to throw out some insults...nice. Divert attention from the real issue and make a big stink about something that isn't there...my liberal friends use that tactic all the time. It doesn't work for them either.
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A piece of advice - I'd stop with the whole 'liberal tactics' thing. It's a lowest common denominator argument, and makes you come across as foolish. And if this is all in my head, please enlighten me: Quote:
There is a definite problem, and it ain't 'Whitey'.
If it ain't 'Whitey', what is it?
You initially said:
Quote:
There is a problem with the rate of fatherless births in this country
Which doesn't really make sense in context. He, at that point, had already moved past unwed births and was discussing crime statistics.
Now, is there anything in his posts that links those two issues?
He followed that sentence with:
Quote:
Maybe some so-called "leader" in the community will actually try to DO SOMETHING about it, most likely not.
What community do you think he was referring to?
Answer that, and you have 'the problem'.
He clearly went on record as saying the problem wasn't 'whitey', and context clues lead one to believe that it's not Hispanics or the Chinese.
Again...what could it be?
Contextually, you can rule out almost every single thing he mentions, except what?
It's not 'in my head'...it's basic grammatical and contextual clues.
If you want to chalk it up to bad grammar or paragraph structure, go ahead. But you're trying to defend his argument by crafting a completely new one.
And it's not an insult to point out what happened...the guy melted down into name calling and nonsensical rants about teachers, groups, decoder rings, etc.
That's not an insult...it's a fact.
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You claimed he said it...he did not. Show me the quote where he used those words.
You can't do it because it's not there.
You accused me of being in PR or being a lawyer and you claimed I am 'spin'-ing points while YOU keep saying something is there that simply is not. You are as wrong as can be.
Yet I am the one arguing at the lowest common denominator?
It's so typical it isn't even funny anymore. Not even a 'boiled down to' kind of funny or even a 'pretty much' kind of funny.
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philly does what philly does, it can be amusing but gets old after a while.
Diversion, assumption, name-calling, lying, threats, these are his stock in trade.
I even explained my statement clearly, in short sentences, without using too many big words.
I suppose he could have Mantis come along and explain how all poor people are just too stupid to do any better than they are, but it wouldn't fit with his current schtick.
Poor effort, philly! No ice cream cone for you.
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Quote:
You claimed he said it...he did not. Show me the quote where he used those words.
You can't do it because it's not there.
I've done it three times now.
The last time I broke it down for you.
Fourth time - if the problem isn't 'Whitey', what is it?
You initially said it was 'unwed births', but that doesn't really make contextual sense, as he already had moved on from unwed mothers to crime statistics.
What is the entity that is linking unwed births and crime in his post?
Any first-year English major worth his salt could tell you that linking entity, grammatically and contextually, is the 'problem' he speaks of.
If you need a further grammatical or contextual clue, look at his follow-up sentence. 'So-called leaders', of what, exactly?
The answer to those questions will give you the 'problem' he spoke of.
I've laid it out about as intricately as I feel the need to. If you want to continue to be obtuse, have at it.
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philly does what philly does, it can be amusing but gets old after a while.
Diversion, assumption, name-calling, lying, threats, these are his stock in trade.
I even explained my statement clearly, in short sentences, without using too many big words.
I suppose he could have Mantis come along and explain how all poor people are just too stupid to do any better than they are, but it wouldn't fit with his current schtick.
Poor effort, philly! No ice cream cone for you.
And the meltdown rolls on...
For the record...where did I threaten you? Where did I call you a name? Where did I divert? Where did I lie? Where did I assume?
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You've shown me the direct quote three times now? Where? Interesting.
Show me the direct quote. You said he said it...you've said so many times. You even said he did so 'directly'. Yet he did not.
I'll stop being obtuse when you stop telling people there are words that were used that were not.
Face it PDR, you can't prove he said something he did not say...and that cheapens the rest of your spin.
I'll discuss unwed mothers and crime stats and in various communities all you want...but not until you admit that he did not use those words directly.
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You forgot to mention the group you talked about earlier that you're not really in.
I know it's hard for you to keep up, but give it your best shot.
In order - "banned camp", "mentally unstable", pretty much everything you say, "I have sent you PMs", and you apparently don't understand the difference between a race of people and a series of problems within their community.
I can understand that.
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Quote:
You've shown me the direct quote three times now? Where? Interesting.
Show me the direct quote. You said he said it...you've said so many times. You even said he did so 'directly'. Yet he did not.
I'll stop being obtuse when you stop telling people there are words that were used that were not.
Face it PDR, you can't prove he said something he did not say...and that cheapens the rest of your spin.
I'll discuss unwed mothers and crime stats and in various communities all you want...but not until you admit that he did not use those words directly.
You're accusing me of spin as you say all that?
Can't do much else but smile.
And I never stated that he directly said anything.
My only use of the word in this thread was when I said:
Quote:
I show you where he did, directly.
What do you think that comma signifies?
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