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... maybe we should have taken a kicker in the first round.
Lol, would the fires have been raging if we did that...
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I have to assume Graham's injury, perhaps injury history?, was what scared the regime away from him. Cundiff has a spotty record as an NFL kicker. I don't know if he was used to kick a lot of 50+ yarders, but his accuracy historically is only 75%. Graham is in the upper tier at 85%. I don't think it is particularly important, but I think Graham is probably the better kicker. Cundiff may be better than Carpenter, Bogotay, and Kickalicious. I'm not sure if this is entirely up to date but here is a reference: web page You have to get to the 10th most accurate kicker on that list to find someone who was actually drafted (Gostkowski). Anyone suggesting you need to draft a kicker isn't looking at the facts. (I missed Kaeding, but he's retired now anyways  )
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Cundiff is among the best in the league at kicking touchbacks. That is a very valuable skill. He is an average field goal kicker. If he sucks we cut him and sign someone else. There are a gaggle of quality kickers floating around on the street.
Last year the Redskins signed Kai Forbath of the street. He played 11 games for them and made 17 of 18 field goals.
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But there’s a lot of middle ground between deciding to move on from Dawson and not settling on a dependable replacement before now.
Other teams – not necessarily teams on the brink of the playoffs – have used the middle rounds to draft a kicker. Like the Dolphins, who picked Caleb Sturgis in the fifth round.
From what I could find, 8 of the top 10 field goal kickers by percentage made last season were undrafted. One of the others was Sebastian Janikowski... maybe we should have taken a kicker in the first round.
Doesn't everyone know that you draft a kicker in the first round every year until you get your franchise kicker. Silliness. 
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... maybe we should have taken a kicker in the first round.
Lol, would the fires have been raging if we did that...
don cockroft was 3rd round pick. man I remember really being pissed when he was let go. not so much with matt bahr but still not happy.
I just cant get upset about phil because I really believe he wanted to leave.
hey we go through a kicker every 10 or 12 years and it always sucks. just the way it is.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Quote:
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... maybe we should have taken a kicker in the first round.
Lol, would the fires have been raging if we did that...
don cockroft was 3rd round pick. man I remember really being pissed when he was let go. not so much with matt bahr but still not happy.
I just cant get upset about phil because I really believe he wanted to leave.
hey we go through a kicker every 10 or 12 years and it always sucks. just the way it is.
In terms of kickers, we've actually been quite lucky over the years. Compared to some teams anyway. still, hated seeing Phil go. But it is what it is,, time to move on.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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hey we go through a kicker every 10 or 12 years and it always sucks. just the way it is.
A good point that hadn't been posted until now.
Everything changes over time.
Better get ready, folks... some day, we'll be talking about Joe T in the past tense...
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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How are we going to replace Joe T with the 32nd pick in the draft? 
yebat' Putin
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Just an Old School thought: If you leave a game up to kickers and zebras (refs), you should expect to lose. You may not lose, but you had many chances to do the job before that. Sometimes it works that way. But kickers are important in the NFL, inarguably so; it remains to be seen how crucial. Cundiff could be a lousy Exhibit A.  
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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hey we go through a kicker every 10 or 12 years and it always sucks. just the way it is.
A good point that hadn't been posted until now.
Everything changes over time.
Better get ready, folks... some day, we'll be talking about Joe T in the past tense...
I was discussing this with a few family members the other day. What a shame it would be to have JT in the HOF and one of our greatest ever ... and to have him never be in a playoff game. And the chances of that are very likely. I know he makes tons of money, but I still feel bad about it.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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JoeT won't make the HOF if he doesn't make a playoff game(at least not until he gets to the old-timers portion). It's the sad reality for most players, but, in particular, those on the OL.
In fact, look through most preseason All-Pro publications. Most that I have read don't include JoeT at tackle. Guys like Clady get selected because of the expectancy of their teams.
So, the harsher, sadder shame will be if he retires and doesn't make the HOF just because of the teams around him during his playing days.
#gmstrong
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You don't think he'd make the HOF? Let's say he plays 7-10 more years and keeps at his current pace. I'd have to say he'd be pretty close to a sure shot. ESPN just did a recent list of the top 100 players (voted by analysts/writers/players) and JT was #10 overall and the top LT by far.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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I would like to think he would buck the overwhelming trend, but how many OL are in the HOF who have never made the playoffs? http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/positions.aspxalso, expecting 7 more years of his current production is probably too much to ask, even of Joe Thomas.
#gmstrong
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If Cundiff stinks we can swap him out. The difference between the best and the worst kicker in the league is only 10%. I am sure there is more to it than that, but it isn't a staggering difference imo. Phil may have been the only guy outside of Vinatieri that can handle our ridiculous snow kicks. How are we going to beat Buffalo 8-0 now ? 
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Better get ready, folks... some day, we'll be talking about Joe T in the past tense...
Hush your mouth.
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Better get ready, folks... some day, we'll be talking about Joe T in the past tense...
Hush your mouth.
think? let me ask you something? this is going to make me look bad but.... have you notice that JT has been getting more hold calls against him the last 2 years? could it be he is losing a step? if it was just last year I would say weeden hold the ball to long. but it was the year before too.
real ?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Losing a step?
No, not at all. All offensive linemen get beat. Even Munoz and Ogden got beat. There are a lot of talented guys who are edge rushers. It happens.
Additionally, we had Weeden and Colt back there. Weeden holds it forever and Colt would get nervous and break out of the pocket and run into the occasional sack.
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Quote:
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Better get ready, folks... some day, we'll be talking about Joe T in the past tense...
Hush your mouth.
think? let me ask you something? this is going to make me look bad but.... have you notice that JT has been getting more hold calls against him the last 2 years? could it be he is losing a step? if it was just last year I would say weeden hold the ball to long. but it was the year before too.
real ?
No.. According to Wiki, he's only had 6 holding calls from 2007 to 2011 (they don't have the stats up for 2012.
2007 - 1
2008 - 1
2009 - 2
2010 - 1
2011 - 1
I don't know about 2012, but unless he had 3 or 4 which I don't think is bad considering he hasn't missed a game since being drafted and starting his first year. then you are seeing things...
Wiki isn't probably the most reliable source, but it's the first one I came across so I just used it..
Through 2011, he's had 20 false starts called on him. But those are pretty evenly spaced out as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Thomas_%28American_football%29
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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may be my fool head again. just seamed like it. kinda stuck in my head.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Those are incredible stats IMO ... he's been everything we could ask for ... and then some.
The ONLY player who I can remember who has gotten the better of Joe has been John Abraham (who is pretty darn good). Other than that, he's been better than every other pass rusher over the course of his career.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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may be my fool head again. just seamed like it. kinda stuck in my head.
That's the problem with saying it without checking stats.. had you, you'd have dropped it. we've all done it.. don't feel bad,,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Those are incredible stats IMO ... he's been everything we could ask for ... and then some.
The ONLY player who I can remember who has gotten the better of Joe has been John Abraham (who is pretty darn good). Other than that, he's been better than every other pass rusher over the course of his career.
If he's not the best LT in the game, I don't know who the hell is!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
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Better get ready, folks... some day, we'll be talking about Joe T in the past tense...
Hush your mouth.
think? let me ask you something? this is going to make me look bad but.... have you notice that JT has been getting more hold calls against him the last 2 years? could it be he is losing a step? if it was just last year I would say weeden hold the ball to long. but it was the year before too.
real ?
No.. According to Wiki, he's only had 6 holding calls from 2007 to 2011 (they don't have the stats up for 2012.
2007 - 1
2008 - 1
2009 - 2
2010 - 1
2011 - 1
I don't know about 2012, but unless he had 3 or 4 which I don't think is bad considering he hasn't missed a game since being drafted and starting his first year. then you are seeing things...
Wiki isn't probably the most reliable source, but it's the first one I came across so I just used it..
Through 2011, he's had 20 false starts called on him. But those are pretty evenly spaced out as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Thomas_%28American_football%29
He had 4 in 2012.(8 total)..........no big deal.
http://www.nflpenalties.com/all-players.php?&year=2012
Last edited by TTTDawg; 09/04/13 09:25 PM.
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None is more obvious than this:
Giorgio Tavecchio: place kicker or men’s fragrance.
Why would you post this AFTER we signed Cundiff? Don't answer, we all know why.
Btw...........didn't Cundiff make a Pro Bowl?
Because it's funny.
I've always liked Shaw's sense of humor.Unfortunately alot of his one liners are directed at the Browns.But then they've sucked so bad for so long,laughing at them is easier on a person's state of mind then getting angry at them.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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He had 4 in 2012.(8 total)..........no big deal.
http://www.nflpenalties.com/all-players.php?&year=2012
thanks for the link and looking it up. yea no big deal. just thought I would ask what people thought.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Why would you post this AFTER we signed Cundiff? Don't answer, we all know why.
vers...because this story by Shaw is not your typical fluff piece with the goal of brown-nosing the front office or simply making the fans feel warm and fuzzy all over.
Shaw's piece is not only critical of the way the front office handled the kicking situation, but also points to the areas of RB and DB as areas of concern.
The real story here is Shaw's conclusion...that the front office did not build this team to win this season.
...Shaw points to the youth and the lack of depth in critical areas, saying "They’re not ready to win."
I believe Shaw makes some good points.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Why would you post this AFTER we signed Cundiff? Don't answer, we all know why.
vers...because this story by Shaw is not your typical fluff piece with the goal of brown-nosing the front office or simply making the fans feel warm and fuzzy all over.
Shaw's piece is not only critical of the way the front office handled the kicking situation, but also points to the areas of RB and DB as areas of concern.
The real story here is Shaw's conclusion...that the front office did not build this team to win this season.
...Shaw points to the youth and the lack of depth in critical areas, saying "They’re not ready to win."
I believe Shaw makes some good points.
How many teams, that haven't had more than 5 wins in the last 5 years and have changed coaches twice in that timeframe become "ready to win" in one offseason?
yebat' Putin
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How many teams, that haven't had more than 5 wins in the last 5 years and have changed coaches twice in that timeframe become "ready to win" in one offseason?
Yet on the game day thread you said you "expect them to win" didn't you?
If on one hand you believe they're not ready to win, while on the other hand you expect them to win, isn't that a total contradiction?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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If on one hand you believe they're not ready to win, while on the other hand you expect them to win, isn't that a total contradiction?
Not in Cleveland. Our teams regularly do all sorts of things we never imagined we'd see.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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 And some of them were pure artistry. I still shake my head when I think of the Dwayne Rudd game....
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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I still shake my head when I think of the Dwayne Rudd game....
This is the exact game I thought of when I read that post.
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Why would you post this AFTER we signed Cundiff? Don't answer, we all know why.
vers...because this story by Shaw is not your typical fluff piece with the goal of brown-nosing the front office or simply making the fans feel warm and fuzzy all over.
Shaw's piece is not only critical of the way the front office handled the kicking situation, but also points to the areas of RB and DB as areas of concern.
The real story here is Shaw's conclusion...that the front office did not build this team to win this season.
...Shaw points to the youth and the lack of depth in critical areas, saying "They’re not ready to win."
I believe Shaw makes some good points.
Yeah, yeah mac, but Shaw wrote this:
As the Browns finalize their roster for the season opener Sunday against the Miami Dolphins, their decisions have begged many questions.
None is more obvious than this:
Giorgio Tavecchio: place kicker or men’s fragrance.
We did not sign Giorgio, mac. We signed Cundiff. So, why post it, other than to post another negative article about the FO?
With that said, Shaw is right in regards to that the Browns don't feel they can win this year. Why would they? They inherited a weak roster from the previous regime. They inherited a team that double drafted at multiple positions and ignored others. They inherited a team that does not have an established qb. They inherited a team that refused to use FA as a tool. They inherited a team that won 14 and lost 32 in the last three years and won only 5 last year while losing 11.
Why is it a surprise to guys like you and Shaw that they should think they can win this year? I think it is a year for evaluation. Gee, what a revelation that is.
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If we only win 5 games again this year, the FO should take a ton of heat and rightfully so.
They've had plenty of time and resources to improve this team. What they've inherited is moot at this point.
We were promised a competitve team. We were promised the status quo will no longer be accepted. Was it just lip service to placate the fans? This evaluation year crap is just that...crap. It's message board experts and media columnists with a degree in misery playing arm chair GM and trying to sound smart. That way if we really are bad then they can say I told you so. This team and FO better believe they can win and win now. It's a complete injustice to guys like Thomas and Jackson to think otherwise. If I were a guy like Thomas and we won 5 games again this year I would demand a trade.
I expect wins this year. Why else would I watch? The FO and coaches and players should expect them too. Why else would they play? If Banner and Co have even discussed at all that wins and losses don't matter this year then they should get on the next train out of town. They don't need to be here.
This town is infected with a complete loser menatlity. It seems to infect everyone that comes here, and it has infected much of the fanbase. It's a shame. It really is. The NFL is a year to year league. Too much changes from year to year to have an evaluation year. You always have to play to win.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Agree. To retain all the Heckert guys as starters was a decision. No way around that. Evaluation? lol Who's to evaluate? We've seen the guys, so should the new FO. If they don't believe they have a QB in Weeden, fine, but what if he plays up to AVG this season? and TRich is the RB that he was hyped up to be? Then we still will win 8 games because they ignored every other hole on the roster They could have done somethng about G if they felt the run blocking was not good enough, same with TE, ILB, FS and CB. They had the resources and they said they want to win. This leaves two conclusions: they either thought what they inherited from Heckert was good enough OR they're waiving the white flag on the season before it has started. Either way I don't agree with their assessment. IF you believe in this roster: This roster and team was another 2-4 good starters away from a PO contending team. A good no2 CB, even an AVG starting FS and either a monster G or ILB. A couple of rather cheap position upgrades at P, FB and TE were easily doable within the budget with cap room to spare. This was they year they should have started contending considering the building blocks are starting to enter their prime seasons, so a few FAs in their prime was what was needed. Instead, we added 8 other teams cuts and yourneyman kicker  IF you don't believe in this roster, then they pulled the same crap Holmgren did with retaining Mangini, as in: wasting a season and prime year of your best players. As I said, this "evaluation" BS is just covering their butts. If they win, they knew it, if they lose, they can say I told you so....and the homers will eat it hook, line and sinker with the help of the apologists. The truth though is, that they inherited a perfect situation to do WHATEVER they wished to do. They had one of the youngest rosters, they had the most cap room to throw around and they could hire whoever they want. So, whatever they DID and DIDN'T do this offseason is totally on them. They had all freedom to do whatever they wanted and this was their decision.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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You two crack me up. How critical were you of H and H after 1 season? After 2 seasons. Hell, I haven't seen either of you say a bad thing about H and H after 3 STINKING SEASONS. Now, you are salivating to bash the FO after one season? Really? Oh wait........if the truth be told, Dj has been bashing them before they even played a game. Yep, you guys are objective. I couldn't read either of your posts at first. They were so lame that I clicked off of them I forced myself to come back to them 3 times. Here are a couple of comments that stood out: Quote:
Evaluation? lol Who's to evaluate?
Are you freaking serious?
Weeden? Should we just say he is the guy long term or cut him? What is it, Dj? You don't think he needs evaluated this year?
Gordon? Should we put all of trust in him or cut him now? Tell me which way to go? I would say we better keep a close eye on him this year?
Jordan? Name him our long term TE or cut him? Again, please tell me which way to go?
TRich? Lava? Little? Skrine? Is Ward worth signing long term? Should we go all in and pay Haden top corner money if he can only play one side?
Are you freaking serious? I could go on and on and on. There aren't too many guys that are sure things on this team. And guys like Weeden, Gordon, etc deserve another look before we part ways w/them. Get freaking real. It's just another example of you hating on the new guys.Pathetic!
Quote:
We were promised a competitve team. We were promised the status quo will no longer be accepted. Was it just lip service to placate the fans? This evaluation year crap is just that...crap. It's message board experts and media columnists with a degree in misery playing arm chair GM and trying to sound smart. That way if we really are bad then they can say I told you so.
Are you calling me dumb? I am just "trying to sound smart." Really?
And you are exaggerating this competitive team thing. I have read several comments from Heckert saying this would be a year for evaluation. And why the hell shouldn't it be? Would you rather he just cut guys like Weeden, Gordon, Jordon, Ward, Haden, Mack, etc? Really?
Look, you guys are going to hate on the new FO all freaking year. Rish, you are not as bad as Dj, mac, and others. But man, your post was whacked. I actually think you can be a reasonable guy...........but sometimes you let peer pressure lead you astray. Think for yourself.
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Are you calling me dumb?
Well, since you asked...
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
LOL...........okay.
At least we know where we stand.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Nice tactics, but it's getting old. Your responses lately go like this:
- Spin it into a personal/agenda battle and evade/ignore all points made, comparing apples to bricks in the process
- then, build strawman arguments and cry foul
- end with the refrain of point1, underlining the personal/agenda angle
I suggest you carefully re-read my post with the emphasis on what positions I deemed needy and then look if there's a match with the guys you mentioned. Only Guy we simply seem to disagree on is Skrine,who I've seen getting beat too often on the outside to See him get "evaluated" any further there. There was next to nothing left to "evaluate" at FB,ILB,FS,CB2 and TE and all ST. Those positions screamed NEED mid season last year and they did nothing about it. Promoting last season's backups at those positions (thats what they DID) has nothing to do with "evaluating". It's either being careless, naive, incompetent (pick your fav) OR giving up on the season.
And please,if you care to respond, at least try making a counter argument
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Getting old? Make a counter argument? Really? You said "what is there to evaluate?" I gave you several specific examples of what there was to evaluate. I could have added more. Sheard? Mack? Gipson? Pinky? Obi? Your post was lame, Dj. I expect better from you. I do expect hate and bitterness, but please man, try and make a better argument than "what is there to evaluate."
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