DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Lombardi's/Banner's 2013 Moves

In terms of pass rush I thought it was our worst game yesterday.

I thought Dalton had a lot of time to throw on a lot of plays.

I think we really missed Sheard and Groves.

Agree, it was more a push-pass rush combined with good coverage, especially by Haden since Dalton always looks Green's way. The two sacks were on a hustle play by Mingo when the pocket got collapsed by Taylor and Bryant iirc and on a CB blitz by Owens himself.

That said, the front 7 still had a very good game stopping the run and controlling the underneath stuff

even the PI was gray. He got his hand on the ball but there's an unwritten understanding about having your back to the ball. In the literal rule what Buster did was not PI because he did get his hand on the ball (hence was clearly playing the ball)

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/passinterference

Digest of Rules Main
Pass Interference
There shall be no interference with a forward pass thrown from behind the line. The restriction for the passing team starts with the snap. The restriction on the defensive team starts when the ball leaves the passer’s hand. Both restrictions end when the ball is touched by anyone.
The penalty for defensive pass interference is an automatic first down at the spot of the foul. If interference is in the end zone, it is first down for the offense on the defense’s 1-yard line. If previous spot was inside the defense’s 1-yard line, penalty is half the distance to the goal line.
The penalty for offensive pass interference is 10 yards from the previous spot.
It is pass interference by either team when any player movement beyond the line of scrimmage significantly hinders the progress of an eligible player of such player’s opportunity to catch the ball. Offensive pass interference rules apply from the time the ball is snapped until the ball is touched. Defensive pass interference rules apply from the time the ball is thrown until the ball is touched.

Actions that constitute defensive pass interference include but are not limited to:

(a) Contact by a defender who is not playing the ball and such contact restricts the receiver’s opportunity to make the catch.

(b) Playing through the back of a receiver in an attempt to make a play on the ball.

(c) Grabbing a receiver’s arm(s) in such a manner that restricts his opportunity to catch a pass.

(d) Extending an arm across the body of a receiver thus restricting his ability to catch a pass, regardless of whether the defender is playing the ball.

(e) Cutting off the path of a receiver by making contact with him without playing the ball.

(f) Hooking a receiver in an attempt to get to the ball in such a manner that it causes the receiver’s body to turn prior to the ball arriving.

[]Actions that do not constitute pass interference include but are not limited to:

(a) Incidental contact by a defender’s hands, arms, or body when both players are competing for the ball, or neither player is looking for the ball. If there is any question whether contact is incidental, the ruling shall be no interference.

(b) Inadvertent tangling of feet when both players are playing the ball or neither player is playing the ball.

(c) Contact that would normally be considered pass interference, but the pass is clearly uncatchable by the involved players.

(d) Laying a hand on a receiver that does not restrict the receiver in an attempt to make a play on the ball.

(e) Contact by a defender who has gained position on a receiver in an attempt to catch the ball.

Note 1: If there is any question whether player contact is incidental, the ruling should be no interference.

Note 2: Defensive players have as much right to the path of the ball as eligible offensive players.

We didn't blitz very often either.

I think when Dalton is successful, he has a pocket in which he can step up into and throw high and long to AJ Green, or to Jones or to whoever...It looked very much like it was our charge to make Dalton beat us all day, and be physical with Green.

We have an ability with Haden to make it tough on a WR. He plays smart, strong, and quick (more on anticipation than raw speed) and it's a nightmare for Green. Though he has gotten the better of Joe on occasion, the rest of our defense is free to play normal, where other teams don't have that luxury.

It really looked though like we wanted Dalton to be a really good QB to beat us, and he wasn't. He needed to fit the ball into small windows, find gaps in the zones, AND put the ball on a spot. He didn't and they scored 6. That was the difference in my opinion. It also seemed like our plan.

Push in the pocket, and make him throw from where he was standing...and not let him step up and into his throws, and for my money, I don't remember many drop backs where he was able to step into many throws.

We also made them beat 7 in coverage, and they didn't do a good job of that either.

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Skrine was his usual up and down all game, not sure what game all of you saw. He got beat soundly numerous times but luckily Dalton didn't throw a good ball on some of those plays and his stupid PI was Cincy's biggest play of the game.
Otoh, he had some nice pass breakups and tackles. Overall, he played like a decent no2 CB today, but I really don't see how he was among the best. He wasn't even a top 5 performer on our D today...



This is correct. It's weird to me how people can't see this. Then go back after the fact to stats to defend him.

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LOL............that isn't even close to being correct. You mock stats and back the opinion of your fellow Clique Club when he says "he got beat soundly numerous times."

Keep grasping at straws. Your clique is losing credibility by the moment. You may want to try honesty, but only as a last resort.

Skrine to me looked beat on one or two plays which i thought would go for completions, but his closing speed is that good he got back there, and of course, he seemed to have this knack of sticking his hand up to get it in there to break up the pass.

I like the improvement he's shown and hope he keeps up his standard of play. He's going to get more balls his way due to Haden's stellar play right now so he needs to maintain that consistency.

With all the whinging of Sheldon and Barf Brown over the years, you'd think Skrine would be considered a superstar given some of the dross thats been rolled out for us

Keep plugging away Buster!

Good point. Skrine has great closing speed.

He isn't great. I don't think anyone is saying that.

I think a lot of us ---guys like you and I---are saying that he has improved quite a bit from last year and is providing decent play as our second corner.

I have a different opinion than you on how much Skrine has improved.

I swear that's me being honest. I didn't mean to upset you. I am a liar from time to time so honesty usually is my last resort, but in this case I am being honest. I should have checked with you in a PM first before I posted that to see if it would upset you. Actually for now on when my opinion is different than yours I'd like to check in with you first if that's ok. So expect some PMs from me in the future.

Man, I really thought I was building some good will with you since we pretty much agree on Weeden. It's a crushing blow that you've chosen to ignore those things where we agree and only focus on where we don't. It's almost as if you are selectively choosing what to ignore and what to focus on but I know you are too much of a good person for that to be true.

I was wondering if I could join you and ddub's clique too since mine is losing credibililty and you guys seem to be gaining some steam. Is there some type of initiation or something that I have to do? Let me know in a PM or something. Thank you!!!!

Sorry, but we are not accepting members at this time.

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Sorry, but we are not accepting members at this time.

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Possibly because with your ego you can't be in a room with more than one other person or the walls explode.

Just a guess.....

J/c

I don't know if it's been mentioned but remember when everyone was destroying Lombardi and Banner for trading with the Steelers?



That Steelers pick look pretty nice right about now eh?

Yes

What looks good about Shamarko Thomas so far? He has 8 tackles in 4 games, and has yet to make a true impact play whenever I have watched the Steelers. He had 4 tackles against the Bengals, and almost nothing against the other 3 teams they played.

What have you seen that makes him look like a bright spot? In the limited Steelers games I've watched, I haven't seen him at all.

As I wrote, that's what Steelers fans are saying on forums, but maybe it's just homer wishful thinking on their part, but not many 3rd/4th round rooks are starting this early in their career and "stats" really don't tell even close to the story with DBs, Since I have no intentions to watch any Steelers games except the two they play against us, I can't comment one way or another, it was just a fyi.

Speaking of 2012 draft, I can't wait for the draft forum to open up again. There were some intense debates about the pass rushers class. Jarvis Jones still has no sacks and their run-D has taken a serious hit with him in the lineup. Mingo and Ansah seem to be the top pass rushers of the class so far, but too small of sample size of course. Will be interesting to follow this DE/OLB class.

Oh man, if you read posts around here you would be led to beleive that Brandon Weeden is a superstar if only his O-line weren't terrible.

Beware reading forums lol

I am absolutely astonished sometimes how someone can watch the games and not really comprehend what's happening. Then have a firm opinion on what's right/wrong.

How's that pickle tasting?

j/c

Cleveland Browns looked smart Sunday and they didn't even play a NFL game - Bud Shaw

CLEVELAND, Ohio – Browns’ CEO Joe Banner promised you’d see smart decisions in Berea sooner than later.

Give him this much. The Trent Richardson trade some thought would take until next April to make sense looks smarter by the week.

The benefit of the doubt about the player Colts’ head coach Chuck Pagano called “a rolling ball of butcher knives” is being liberally applied in Indianapolis. You just wonder for how much longer.

Fox analyst John Lynch, a rolling ball of nunchucks as a NFL safety, relayed the team’s hopes about Richardson during Sunday’s first half even as the former Browns’ running back carried six times for two yards.

“He’s only averaging 2.9 yards per carry (for the season),” Lynch told broadcast booth partner Kevin Burkhardt, “but they couldn’t be higher on him … They feel like they (can) throw body blows but at the same time the knockout’s gonna come with Trent Richardson.”

Richardson shared a field with two other running backs Sunday. He pretty much looked third best.

One was Marshawn Lynch, a No. 12 overall pick who came to Seattle from Buffalo for fourth-round and fifth-round draft choices.

The other was the Colts’ Donald Brown, a late first-round pick from UConn, who has underachieved but clearly hits holes faster than Richardson.

The big payoff for the Browns won’t come until they either use the pick to draft a talent at a position of higher value to them or perhaps package it to land their franchise quarterback.

We don’t have to wait until April, though, to see why they did it.

Richardson may yet run for big yards in Indy – defenses must respect Andrew Luck, after all – but I doubt it. He was 18-for-56 Sunday with a long of 16. That matched Brown's long run.

Unless he suddenly becomes a home run hitter, that Colts' No. 1 pick – even if it’s in the 20s – is going to look like larceny.

The trade looks good on the field for the Browns, who needed a running game against Buffalo to support a rusty Brandon Weeden and found enough of one with Willis McGahee.

It looks even better for the front office. Banner has shown he isn’t at all shy in making trades with organizations respected for their smarts. First Pittsburgh, then Indy. He confidently says it’s because he expects to win the deal.

The Steelers appear headed for a re-set season, which chips away at the very reputation that scared so many Browns’ fans when Banner broke tradition and traded with Pittsburgh on draft day.

Since Indy has its franchise quarterback, the idea of spending a late first-round pick on Richardson made some sense to them. But even as he “broke loose” for a couple modest runs Sunday, it’s clear they over-valued him.

Banner was part of a Philadelphia organization that drafted LeSean McCoy in the second round.

Would you be shocked to discover the bigger blow to the Browns' aspirations for a dynamic ground attack wasn't the Richardson trade, but the injury to Dion Lewis? My sense is Banner thought that all along.

Banner looks smart for maximizing Richardson’s value. He looks even better when you group some of his early decisions in with it – the Chud-Norv Turner-Ray Horton hiring, signing Brian Hoyer, etc.

I will say it before you do. They haven’t won anything yet, other than three in a row.

And Mike Holmgren’s Browns, with Pat Shurmur at the controls, did that a year ago.

They’ll eventually be judged on how smart they are with all the picks stockpiled for 2014.

Sunday with no Browns game gave us some time to look around the league. In past years that’s been a depressing exercise.

The Browns haven’t established relevance yet but they certainly are in the AFC North. League-wide relevance can only happen one smart decision at a time

It's clear trading Richardson qualifies and raises hopes for what comes next.

http://www.cleveland.com/budshaw/index.ssf/2013/10/cleveland_browns_looked_smart.html

I still maintain that our FO/Staff had MUCH bigger plans and hopes for Dion Lewis than they did for Trent. The injury to Dion was enormous based on how we planned to utilize him. He was going to be our Sproles.

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Marshawn Lynch, a No. 12 overall pick who came to Seattle from Buffalo for fourth-round and fifth-round draft choices.

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And our fans were going nuts because we got a first for TRich. Lynch is a darn good back and all they got for him was a 4th rounder and 5th rounder. We stole from Indy. Don't admit you were wrong, guys...........just move on to the next thing to complain about.

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Richardson may yet run for big yards in Indy – defenses must respect Andrew Luck, after all – but I doubt it. He was 18-for-56 Sunday with a long of 16.

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I watched that game. He was awful. Looked the same as last year. Misses holes. Indecisive. The 16 yard run was when the OL opened a hole you could have driven a truck through. Richardson goes through it and stumbles. Should have been a huge, huge gain. He then celebrates.

Don't admit you were wrong about him, guys. Yeah, it was the rib injury. It was Shurmur. But, let's just ignore it and continue to belittle those who don't agree w/you on the next topic you are going to be wrong about.