|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 157
Practice Squad
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 157 |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Dilfer want out of Cleveland?
Didn't Cleveland kind of help him out by sending him back in the direction he wanted to be.
He was no longer wanted here and he no longer wanted to be here. We picked up a quarterback and a pick in return.
The Browns may not have came out smelling like a rose, but what else should they have done?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024 |
If I understand it correctly, Dilfer didn't want to be here and Savage made the best of a bad situation.
I believe it was a talent down-grade, but I also can see why the move was made.
At the time, it made sense, and I still believe it does. Did we suffer a bit with no veteran quarterback on the roster? Maybe. But in the end, would it really have made much of a difference?
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
More excuses.
They could have started off by keeping KH instead of trading a FOURTH RD. PICK for Dilfer. Both are backup quarterbacks. There would have been no problems and they would have been in better shape.
And who cares if Dilfer was unhappy? He is a better QB than Dorsey. Or, are you disputing that? Did you know that Frye actually called Dilfer quite often during the season? That he was more comfortable talking to him rather than Dorsey, his own QB coach, OC, or HC?
And why was Dilfer so unhappy? Was it because of Mo? Let me ask you this.....and I'm not being a smart ass......was this actually proven as fact, or was it speculation on the part of the media and members of a message board? If it was Mo.........who was responsible for hiring Mo and bringing in Dilfer? Sorry man.....excuses are for losers. And the Browns certainly have been losers under the direction of Savage.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,654
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,654 |
Quote:
I'll pose to you the same question I asked asked Attack that he hasn't answered yet. In the past 20 years, name me 3 ELITE QBs that have been successfully behind an atrocious o-line.
No Elite QB can be sucessfull behind a crappy OL.
Reference Point: Farve 2005 and his 26 int's after they dumped Rivera and Wahle... (I hope my memory was correct).
I agree with the perception that we will not be able to make an assessment of Frye with the Cleveland OL averaging a sack every 9.5 pass attempts. 1 per every 15 is about average for an NFL team.
The rest of the postulation about the value of Russell is pure speculation. The fact is that he is the closest thing to a Bradshaw, Elway or George that has come along once every 10 years or so. and of the above 2 out of 3 aint bad.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,770
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,770 |
Quote:
The Browns may not have came out smelling like a rose, but what else should they have done?
Possibly fire Mo THEN!? Instead of letting our veteran QB go and ditch Mo seven games later?
Just a thought.........
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
Quote:
At the time, it made sense, and I still believe it does. Did we suffer a bit with no veteran quarterback on the roster? Maybe. But in the end, would it really have made much of a difference?
It only made sense because people made excuses and justified the trade. And I wasn't around to give the alternative point of view and make people think. Hell, people actually were able to make sense out of the drafting of Perkins. They justified giving Baxter big money instead of guys like Wahle and Williams. People on this board are always making excuses for Savage and saying they "understand" his moves, even if they don't agree.
Well......I don't agree w/them and I don't even understand many of them. I think he is in over his head.
Would it have made much of a difference? Are you saying that because we were 4 and 12? I don't know man. I've been poor before. Have you? While $20 might not have got me out of the poor house.....I would rather have the 20 than $5. Wouldn't you? Hell, thinking otherwise is one of the reasons the Browns are STILL in the poorhouse.
Here is the bottom line........we threw away a 4th round pick for Dorsey and a 7th. And we could have had KH here who is just as good as Dilfer. Both are journeyman QBs. But, why throw one out in the garbage and buy another one on your credit card? Dumb as hell!
Now............you wanna talk about Ekuban and Myers for Tim Carter? 
How about Fowler for the other Dorsey?
Savage has made a [censored]-load of boneheaded moves. I hope he has a good draft. If he does......I'm gonna let all this go, but if he don't...........you all are gonna here from me...........loud and clear. 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 848
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 848 |
I see your point, but for historical correctness - Holcomb did leave as a free agent. He wasn't cut.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
Dude, I know that. Believe me............I know the true story much better than just about anyone here.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,224
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,224 |
Quote:
Dude, I know that. Believe me............I know the true story much better than just about anyone here.
So what about the bit where KH didn't sign the offer that was tendered to him but chose to sign for less money to be a back up eleswhere? IIRC the way it went down, he stalled on the offer we gave him and we went in a different direction.
JMH? Not a jab, serious question. Did you omit that or are you saying thats not how it went down? 
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
LOL........that's how it supposedly went down. And it kinda-sorta went down that way. But, believe me when I tell you............KH wanted to be here. He did not want a guarantee of being a starter....well, actually he did, but he knew it was unreasonable. He felt the Browns did not want him and that is why he left for less money.
I really can't prove that last statement, but those of you who know me........know I don't make [censored] up.....and I'm telling you....that is the real truth.
I ain't saying KH was great. But, I think the Browns would have been better off w/him and a 4th round pick instead of Dorsey and a 7th. Agree or disagree?
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 848
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 848 |
I know you enouh to know it's not BS, but it doesn't change the fact he left for less money. Now if there's more extenuating circumstances than that - PM me, I'll keep a secret. However - in the long run KH could have stayed, but left for less money - so no matter his reasoning - it was his choice. I'm not trying to start anything, but if you re-read what you even wrote - no matter how you slice it, KH chose to leave. PS laid the deal out there for him. Can't blame that on Savage. By the way, as much as I thought Holcomb was an awful QB, I wanted him to stay due to continuity and so we could fix the o-line before we continually messed up more QBs..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,224
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,224 |
Quote:
LOL........that's how it supposedly went down. And it kinda-sorta went down that way.
Aw look, i know we urks with no sources are not told 100% of what goes down, there's always a little bit left un-released, i appreciate that.
Quote:
He did not want a guarantee of being a starter....well, actually he did, but he knew it was unreasonable.
That one kinda makes me Are you saying that KH wanted a guarantee but knew it was unreasonable/un do-able?
Quote:
He felt the Browns did not want him and that is why he left for less money.
Excuse the silly question but if the Browns didn't want him why offer him a deal? What was the duration of the contract offered? I mean either way he would probably have been a back up, why not be a back up with more money? Obviously something didn't add up and that's probably what you allude to when you say this:
Quote:
I really can't prove that last statement, but those of you who know me........know I don't make [censored] up.....and I'm telling you....that is the real truth.
No arguments here. I've read enough from you to realise that you're sources are legit. (and Mav and of course Danielle.)
Quote:
I ain't saying KH was great.
(Potential pro-bowler? )
Quote:
But, I think the Browns would have been better off w/him and a 4th round pick instead of Dorsey and a 7th. Agree or disagree?
Very few would argue the toss with you on that one. But as the new fresh saying goes with the current situation: "If you've got 2 QB's you haven't got one."  That whole controversy back then was a train-wreck and neither Kelly or Tim did much to distinguish themselves (although Kelly airing it out was fun to watch.) I think the Browns were more than willing to close the chapter on the whole affair to be honest....i mean, behind that line neither stayed healthy for long.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
Quote:
Quote:
He did not want a guarantee of being a starter....well, actually he did, but he knew it was unreasonable.
That one kinda makes me Are you saying that KH wanted a guarantee but knew it was unreasonable/un do-able?
I guess that was confusing. My mistake. All I was saying is that every QB, and KH was no exception, would love to be guaranteed a starting job, but they all realize that isn't how the business works. And he didn't have any problems w/it.
Quote:
Excuse the silly question but if the Browns didn't want him why offer him a deal? What was the duration of the contract offered? I mean either way he would probably have been a back up, why not be a back up with more money? Obviously something didn't add up and that's probably what you allude to when you say this:
You are a smart guy and you know that things are often more complicated than they seem. I don't want to get into this and if you choose not to believe what I'm telling you........well, that's fine.
Quote:
"If you've got 2 QB's you haven't got one." That whole controversy back then was a train-wreck and neither Kelly or Tim did much to distinguish themselves (although Kelly airing it out was fun to watch.) I think the Browns were more than willing to close the chapter on the whole affair to be honest....i mean, behind that line neither stayed healthy for long.
I don't know, man. They had two QBs w/Dilfer and Frye. And there isn't much difference between Dilfer and Holcomb. Both are good backup QBs who can start. And now............Savage has made statements that the gap between Frye and Anderson has narrowed and there will be an open competition for the job. He has also been checking on veteran QBs and is thinking of drafting a QB. Hell, there could be 3 QBs in the mix before long.
All I know is this. KH and a 4th would have been better for the Browns than Ken Dorsey and a 7th. That is what the Browns ended up with after Savage's maneuvers.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,865
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,865 |
Quote:
More excuses.
They could have started off by keeping KH instead of trading a FOURTH RD.
Actually Vers, if you do some research, what your gonna find is that we made Holcomb a better Money offer to stay here and start for a year or two than Buffalo did to be the back up.. I'm not exactly sure what else Savage could have done more than that.
As for the Dilfer trade, once again, if you go back and review, what you will see is that Dilfer publically said that he wanted out of Cleveland and if a trade or release wasn't forthcoming, he would retire.. So rather than just lose him and get nothing for him, Savage traded him to SF and got a pick and Dorsey.
I'm never gonna be the one to tell you that that was a wonderful trade or anything.. you are right when you say that Dorsey is no Dilfer. But when faced with losing a guy and getting nothing for him, or a trade that nets you a player and a pick,,, which would you do?
I'd do the trade!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,620
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,620 |
Quote:
They could have started off by keeping KH instead of trading a FOURTH RD. PICK for Dilfer.
We offered KH more money than Buffalo did, and a chance to compete for a starting spot. Holcomb wasn't exactly kicked to the curb, there was an attempt to keep him.
He was a free agent, if we didn't want him we wouldn't have made him a better offer than anyone else did, we would have just done nothing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659
Poser
|
|
Poser
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659 |
I know you don't make things up, but I do question your source's accuracy. Holcomb left because he knew he had a shot at starting in Buffalo and believed his own hype.
As for who we were better off with, I say we are better off without Holcomb. I know you refuse to believe it, but Holcomb was a locker room cancer. He was here and he was in Buffalo. He was constantly lobbying for the starting position. Again, I know you will never accept that, but that doesn't make it less true.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
Afterthought in the Dilfer trade? Really? Who else did we get?
The Undertaker...  Why do you ignore the fact that Holcomb first said he didn't want to return unless he was the starter (he didn't like the fact the Browns were looking to get another QB) YET DIDN'T hestitate to take Buffalo's offer, knowing he wouldn't start there? Why do U convienantly ignore that Dillpickle WANTED A TRADE and Phil granted him that request? The fact is since U didn't like him being brought in for a 4th(and who agreed with Phil about the pick anyway?)U just to want to argue that it was a waste to trade him out again.. In some areas U don't even try to be reasonable..  Your hero.....Savage..... This is cute..U've gotten in the habit of attributing that remark to anyone who hasn't come out and bashed Phil about the state of the team IRREGARDLESS of the fact that I and some others DON'T like all the moves he's made. And I don't feel the need to defend what I think ..I've said it many times.. Save the excuses. Excuses are for losers! Even more than stats are for losers And so is huffing and puffing and growling about everything that happens all the time...or trying to insinuate I and others just love everything thats being done..yet U don't wany anyone to put words or thoughts in your mouth or try to adjust your thinking.. Interesting that U try to come off like a negative personna in here a lot but actually U understand better than most why certain things were done..U just don't LIKE it..so U try to create this air that Vers is gonna hammer Phil and anyone who isn't calling the guy a freaking idiot or dictor views him a hero..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 04/10/07 08:27 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,224
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,224 |
Quote:
I guess that was confusing. My mistake. All I was saying is that every QB, and KH was no exception, would love to be guaranteed a starting job, but they all realize that isn't how the business works. And he didn't have any problems w/it.
Cool. Thanks for clarification.
Quote:
You are a smart guy and you know that things are often more complicated than they seem. I don't want to get into this and if you choose not to believe what I'm telling you........well, that's fine.
Ok, obviously you got boundaries with this situation and i can respect those. I'm just doing some sleuthing and trying to recall/read between the lines of what went down as i recall it. I remember it was weird that Kelly balked at the offer to stay in a City he was probably comfortable with to take less money and still be a back up on a new team.
Now as you say, we don't know what made him do that (and he took a fair bit of stick from the fans on the board after the odd decision to bail) so without directly asking you i'm just trying to figure out his and the Browns stance on why it went down like it did. It didn't add up at the time (allusions from board members to KH not being able to handle the pressure of starting IIRC and probably more comfortable with a back up role. I didn't buy that either...) and it doesn't really add up now either.....Weird also that KH didn't go public if there was jiggery pokery.
I mean here are the Browns, offering a contract (which to the man on the street indicates some desire to retain his services.)
And here is Holcomb, who in my opinion would've started that year for the Browns anyways, signing elsewhere for less money in an almost guaranteed back up role.
As i said, something else went on and i'm wondering aloud what it was....i'm guessing you know but i ain't pushing.  
Quote:
I don't know, man. They had two QBs w/Dilfer and Frye. And there isn't much difference between Dilfer and Holcomb. Both are good backup QBs who can start.
The additional extra for Dilfer though was his obvious and often stated desire at that time to be Frye's mentor. Pre-season talk he talked of little else but he did hark up a bit when Frye replaced him. Just wondering if that willingness to be a mentor gave him the edge with the org. and probably sealed the deal in us bringing him in here.
(Comparisons made at the time was Favre and Rodgers with Favre pretty much refusing to mentor the rook.)
Just musing aloud. 
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
Well went to the old thread...thanks for the link...only read the first 2 pages. Wanted to read the article although I remember now reading it when Stabber first posted it. Wanted also to read CoachB's comments as I know his association with him is close n personal.
I did like this post from Vers...whose football I respect until he throws in his agenda crapola. Also I don't respect him as much after he called me an A-hole - thats usually where I draw the line of an open hand  but his sentiments pretty much are spot on.
I think the WR part was his agenda portion as well as the Mo part but the rest in between was pretty much spot on. Regarding WRs...yes, there was mistakes its called inexperience as BE n KW2 really didn't have much game experience and are in a learning a maturation process themselves....like all WRs transitioning to the NFL. - including Calvin when he joins a team...and just about every WR who has come before him.
But since its on the other thread and pretty much mirrors my sentiments. Its worth reprinting:
---Frye throwing behind or in front of receivers all the time.
I don't think Frye is the most accurate passer. In fact, I think it might be his biggest weakness. However, it has been well documented that some of his receivers were not running proper routes. They rounded them off...they ran the wrong routes....they went outside instead of inside or just the opposite...they didn't know the plays.....etc. I would say that has a little to do w/Charlie throwing to the wrong shoulder. *L*
Charlie has an incredibly weak arm.
Charlie does not have a gun, but his arm isn't as weak as most of his naysayers make it out to be. Not even close. LOL.....some of you act like he throws every pass like a wounded duck.
The Browns did not throw deep w/Charlie, but did w/Anderson.
If anything, it was just the opposite. The Browns threw more deep passes then their opponents in almost every game. To say otherwise is a load of crap.
Having different offensive coordinators doesn't hurt a QB.
Another gem.
That used to be a valid reason for Timid's problems, but it isn't even a factor for Charlie. Okie dokie.
Charlie has not shown any improvement.
Another stupid statement. First off, he hasn't played all that long to even make that comment. Secondly, he did show some improvement, especially in the KC game. Finally, it's hard to not make mistakes when you are asked to carry the offense. And Charlie was asked to do that, because the talent that Savage put around him was putrid. I can't remember how many times I would say ...man, they are putting a lot of pressure on that kid. You are supposed to protect young QBs, the Browns did just the opposite.
Charlie has peaked. He cannot get any better.
LMAO......there were a lot of dumb statements, but that one is probably the dumbest. Hmmmmm...wait. Let me take that back. Leave out the "probably." I would like to know how the hell anyone can make such a statement? Go ahead and explain it for me. I'll be waiting for you.
One last thing. I am not sold on Charlie Frye. However, there are too many people throwing him under the bus for problems that were not his doing. Kinda reminds me of the Mo situation. Savage gets a pass and the innocents get blamed.
That offense was one of the worst ever assembled. True genius.
I wonder how many of the guys bashing him were the same guys calling for Dilfer's head and screaming to give Charlie a chance?
As mentioned...cut out the offhand BE bash and the throw Savage under the bus Agenda Crapola and stick to the football mentioned in between...pretty much says it all.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,562
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,562 |
Quote:
That sounds nice, but sorry Peen...........Dorsey is not better than Dilfer.
LOL....as much as you talk Oline, I was somehow thinking you were talking about Nate Dorsey......or are you?? 
Ok....qb......no, he isn't, but for this team he probably is. I think it was pretty clear Dilfer wasn't going to be happy backing up Chuck...heck....who would, not to mention the apparent problem he had with the coaching staff.
Sorry for my lack of clarity on the matter.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
First off............Daman, Cap, and Attack.....did you guys even read my explanations, or did you just focus in on a couple of comments? Because I already answered that [censored]. Now.......to someone who actually reads: Quote:
Now as you say, we don't know what made him do that (and he took a fair bit of stick from the fans on the board after the odd decision to bail) so without directly asking you i'm just trying to figure out his and the Browns stance on why it went down like it did. It didn't add up at the time (allusions from board members to KH not being able to handle the pressure of starting IIRC and probably more comfortable with a back up role. I didn't buy that either...) and it doesn't really add up now either.....Weird also that KH didn't go public if there was jiggery pokery.
I mean here are the Browns, offering a contract (which to the man on the street indicates some desire to retain his services.)
And here is Holcomb, who in my opinion would've started that year for the Browns anyways, signing elsewhere for less money in an almost guaranteed back up role.
I think you have figured this out all on your own. Like I said before, I am not able to give you specifics. Sorry, but I don't break promises. But, a thinking man like yourself, can probably make his own inferences. Ask yourself why KH would accept less money to go to a new city when he was told that he was going to be the backup there and leave a city that he lived in, would have a great chance of being a starter, and make more money. *L*
If that isn't enough....did you find it kinda odd how quickly the Dilfer trade was done?
People often believe what they wanna believe and when the bone was thrown to them, they bit. Now..........I'm not asking you to believe that KH would have been a good fit here, but I am asking you to question whether KH and 4th rd. pick would have been better than Dorsey and a 7th.
And listen up.....I won't even argue w/you if you choose the latter. That's your right. CoachB believes a lot of what I say, but he thinks the Browns are better off. I don't agree w/him, but I ain't going to try and change his mind. I respect people's opinions, I just don't like it when lies are being told so many times that they are perceived as the truth.
One last thing............I answered a lot of your questions, but I still haven't had my original question answered. I was away from the board last year and I don't get any Brown's news on an island. But, when I came back on I read about Dilfer demanding a trade and Savage complying by trading him to SF. Now, here is my question-----------Is there any documented proof that Dilfer did demand a trade? Or was that speculation by the media and the members of the boards? I am not being a smart ass. I really don't know the answer. And if you...or someone else....could give me the direct quotes from either Savage or Dilfer, I would certainly appreciate it.
Oh.......btw............thanks tab for the props. You are still an A-hole, but you do know your football.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659
Poser
|
|
Poser
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659 |
Vers, IIRC there was an article that quoted Savage as saying Dilfer wanted to be traded and he accomodated him. I don't have a link, just going off memory.
As you said, we disagree on KH. I believe all of what you say when it comes to you citing sources. I don't doubt your integrity one bit. We disagree on opinions at times, but I never question that you get information. I do believe you have sources that tell you things just as I have sources that tell me things. What probably has happened is you've heard from one person or set of people and I have another and THEY are actually giveing their point of view. The truth is probably somewhere between the two sources. In the end, we both know football and can agree on the vast majority of things.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
First off............Daman, Cap, and Attack.....did you guys even read my explanations, or did you just focus in on a couple of comments? Because I already answered that [censored].
Why should I? When you harp over the same stuff all the time U get the same explanations yet you throw them all out every time..why not show the same consideration U want? People often believe what they wanna believe and when the bone was thrown to them, they bit. Your teeth are so locked in till if they pulled out nothing would be left but your gums..bite on this..  http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsi...21848&rfi=6[url=http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/highschool/baseball/s_451206.html] Dilfer is targeting the 49ers
Jeff Schudel, JSchudel@News-Herald.com
05/02/2006
Email to a friendPost a CommentPrinter-friendly
Report says unhappy Browns quarterback would prefer to be traded to San Francisco
Advertisement
Trent Dilfer wants to be traded because he is unhappy with his situation with the Browns, according to a Channel 3 news report.
The 49ers are said to be the team interested in Dilfer as a backup for Alex Smith, the first overall pick in the 2005 draft. Dilfer wants to play for the 49ers, according to a source in San Francisco, because they are the closest team to his hometown of Fresno, Calif.
Dilfer told a friend he thought he would be traded Sunday, according to a source. The 49ers tried to acquire Dilfer from Seattle in the 2005 offseason, but offered only a sixth-round draft choice. The Browns beat that by giving the Seahawks a fourth-round draft pick in 2005.
A phone message left for Browns general manager Phil Savage was not immediately returned Monday night, but Savage said through a team spokesman that the team will not comment on trade rumors.
The television report comes one day after Savage contacted the Detroit Lions about a possible trade for quarterback Joey Harrington. That trade never gained momentum because Harrington told Savage he does not want to play for the Browns.
"The trade was contingent on Harrington going to Cleveland," a source in San Francisco said. "When that died, the Browns couldn't move Dilfer because they don't have another veteran quarterback."
Dilfer reportedly wants to play for another team because of disagreements with Browns offensive coordinator Maurice Carthon. That the two did not see eye-to-eye last year became evident when the Browns squandered precious seconds at the end of the first half in Minnesota. Dilfer could have spiked the ball to allow time to attempt scoring a touchdown. Instead, the Browns settled for a field goal.
Asked afterward why he didn't spike the ball, Dilfer answered, clearly displeased: "I do what I'm told."
As it turned out, that was the last game Dilfer started.
It is believed the first choice of Savage and Coach Romeo Crennel is to keep Dilfer and let him compete with Charlie Frye for the starting job. At the very least, they want Dilfer to be Frye's mentor, but only if Dilfer were content in that role.
Dilfer, 34, was 4-7 as a starter last year. Frye started the last five games and went 2-3.
Dilfer is under contract to the Browns for three more years. It is unlikely Crennel and Savage would hold Dilfer to the contract if Dilfer demanded a trade, but they would sign a veteran before granting Dilfer his wish, it is believed. When asked Sunday whether Dilfer is unhappy with the Browns, Savage said: "I can't answer that."
Savage said he was interested in Harrington as a backup. One quarterback who could fit that role is Kerry Collins, who like Harrington is represented by agent David Dunn. Dunn was unavailable for comment Monday night.
Collins has played 11 seasons with Carolina, New Orleans, the Giants and Oakland. He completed 302 of 565 passes for 3,759 yards with 20 touchdown passes and 12 interceptions last season. He was released for salary cap reasons.
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/s_451206.html Trade clears Frye's way with Browns
Related Articles
BEREA, Ohio (AP) - The Cleveland Browns didn't have time to wait for Trent Dilfer's surgically repaired knee to completely heal or for his bruised ego to get better.
They wanted to move forward — with or without him.
Dilfer, unhappy at the prospect of being Charlie Frye's backup, was traded on Thursday to the San Francisco 49ers, where he'll be closer to home but will sit behind and mentor Alex Smith.
On Friday, Browns general manager Phil Savage insisted that Dilfer, who signed a four-year, $8 million deal with the Browns last year, did not demand to be traded.
"He never forced his way out of Cleveland," Savage said as the Browns welcomed their rookie draft picks and free agents to a weekend orientation/minicamp. "Trent never came to me and said, 'Hey, I've got to get out of here.'"
Still, the Browns tried to make a deal with Detroit for Joey Harrington during last week's draft before sending Dilfer to the 49ers for quarterback Ken Dorsey and a seventh-round pick in 2007.
Dilfer had knee surgery this winter and was still at the point in rehab where he wasn't going to be ready to take part in team workouts until next month, Savage said. Coach Romeo Crennel had said Dilfer would get a chance to compete with Frye for the starting job, but Savage indicated it was time for the Browns and Dilfer to part company.
Dilfer and offensive coordinator Maurice Carthon were at odds last season, but Savage said that relationship had no bearing on the trade.
"At some point, things got off the track at the end of last year," Savage said. "I'm not sure that we were able to get them back on track this spring. I'll say this, if you have a tire going down on your car, you are not going to wait for it to blow out. You are going to pull off and change the tire or pull into a gas station and get it fixed.
"That's really what we did. I think we've been very proactive in this. I wasn't going to wait until July and have Trent come to me and say that he couldn't do it anymore. That is really what the move is all about."
Dilfer's departure clears the way for Frye, who went 2-3 as a rookie starter, to take over as Cleveland's No. 1 QB next season.
"Charlie might have a leg-up in the starting battle," Crennel joked. "Just to let you know."
However, there's still a good possibility the Browns will sign a veteran backup quarterback to work with Frye, a third-round pick in 2005 who worked his way up the depth chart and eventually into the starting lineup.
"I think it might be better to have a guy who can take him under his wing and talk to him about the little things regarding the game," Crennel said. "I think it could be beneficial. Is it necessary? I don't know if it absolutely is."
Dorsey has three years experience in the league. The 25-year-old has eight touchdowns and 11 interceptions in his pro career. He was the quarterback for Miami when Ohio State beat the Hurricanes to win the 2002 national title.
One of Dorsey's college teammates was Browns tight end Kellen Winslow, who hasn't played in almost two years because of injuries.
"When we talk to people who were associated with him (Dorsey) in the past, they felt like he does have some upside as a potential quarterback in this league," Savage said. "He has a degree of experience. On top of that, he's a winner and he played with Kellen at Miami. With talking to (Winslow) and Dorsey last night, I think this will be a good situation and he will be a good presence for Kellen."
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 04/10/07 12:17 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,865
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,865 |
Quote:
First off............Daman, Cap, and Attack.....did you guys even read my explanations, or did you just focus in on a couple of comments? Because I already answered that [censored].
Well I guess I missed your explanations.... Where were they, now it's bugging me that I didn't see that.. or was it a post from a while ago..
Oh, and if it was a post from a while ago,, why would you give the wrong info yesterday? You have me very confused Vers...Very..
But, in either case, there isn't any reason on this earth to get testy with me,,, I was gentlemenly in my approach to your errors.. The least you could do is treat me the same.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,865
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,865 |
I went back to see if I missed something... perhaps you feel the following clears up the original statement you made about it being excuses...you tell me if that's what you meant...OK Quote:
And who cares if Dilfer was unhappy? He is a better QB than Dorsey. Or, are you disputing that? Did you know that Frye actually called Dilfer quite often during the season? That he was more comfortable talking to him rather than Dorsey, his own QB coach, OC, or HC?
And why was Dilfer so unhappy? Was it because of Mo? Let me ask you this.....and I'm not being a smart ass......was this actually proven as fact, or was it speculation on the part of the media and members of a message board?
As for how people hear about things,,, not everyone is blessed to have an internal contact that gives them inside info. So to some of us, all we really have is what's in the press.. I mean it's our only source of info.. Official Info that is..
Further, we can only go by what is actually said in the media by the powers that be within the Browns.. Again, because we are not blessed with insider info as you seem to be.
Because most all of us don't have the inside info, we are sometimes taken in by what's reported,,, bound to happen.. No real way around it..
But in this case, it's actually pretty simple... so I'm again, not sure why you adopted the attitude with me.. since our truce, I've been nothing but cival to you...if you want to jump on someone else, be my guest, but I'd prefer that you didn't lump me in..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
"IIRC there was an article that quoted Savage as saying Dilfer wanted to be traded and he accomodated him."
Pretty much how I remembered it...there seemed to be friction between Dilfer and Mo Carthon's micro management. He wanted out...nobody needs a mentor who wants out and is disgruntled so Savage obliged. Not our plan - was the way it worked out.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 305
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 305 |
Wow...this thread is nutso.
[color:"white"]
Go Browns
[/color]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,865
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,865 |
It can get that way Mav,,, The problem is when people forget thier manners... I know I've done it and I'm trying my best to change..
Sometimes I look at what people write in here,,, and I'm convinced that if they were standing in front of you, they would not say the same thing..
Or they actually may, but the inflection in thier voice would let you know that they are kidding with you.. But on here, if you write it, it's up to the reader to interpret what you meant... Some forget that... and it leads to verbal battles that serve no purpose on this earth...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
He felt the Browns did not want him and that is why he left for less money.
Well, not quite.
Holcomb and his agent got our final offer. That offer did not include the money that Holcomb wanted, nor did it include a guarantee that he would be the unquestioned starter (which is why I say "offer" not "contract" since you can't put that in a contract). So when the Holcomb camp wanted more, Savage said enough was enough and went out and got Dilfer. I believe Holcomb or his agent themselves came out and said that the silence from Opie was telling. At that point in time, the Holcomb camp had no choice but to take the only other legit offer on the table.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,865
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,865 |
Point is that they did make an offer to Holcomb that was probably fair based on his past performances.. If he wanted to be guaranteed a starting job and the Browns weren't willing,, hooray for the Browns... I'm glad he left then...
I didn't care for the way the Dilfer thing came down,, but a player like Dilfer doesn't have the clout to demand much of anything really... It's not like he's Payton Manning or John Elway or Tom Brady.. so him demanding anything doesn't exactly excite me much...
Whether it was that he was told he'd have to compete for the starting job, or if he just didn't like Mo,, whatever the reason,,, it probably wasn't right for him to expect the team to jump through hoops to please him.. so goodbye to him also....
I would have prefered them to find an experienced QB to back up CF or maybe even challenge for the starting job. But when you look at last year, none of the choices were exactly exciting... Vinny, Harrington (who didn't want us).
Culpepper or Brees were the two hot QB's last season and both were coming off of injuries and wanted big $$.. as it turns out, Brees would have been worth it, Culpepper would not have...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
Quote:
Vers, IIRC there was an article that quoted Savage as saying Dilfer wanted to be traded and he accomodated him. I don't have a link, just going off memory.
Okay, thanks for trying to answer. Like I said, I was away from the board last year and did not know the answer. I do know how people embellish things and when it is repeated enough.......it becomes the truth.
Attack posted two articles: This excerpt comes the closest to answering my question:
"He never forced his way out of Cleveland," Savage said as the Browns welcomed their rookie draft picks and free agents to a weekend orientation/minicamp. "Trent never came to me and said, 'Hey, I've got to get out of here.'"
Still, the Browns tried to make a deal with Detroit for Joey Harrington during last week's draft before sending Dilfer to the 49ers for quarterback Ken Dorsey and a seventh-round pick in 2007.
Dilfer had knee surgery this winter and was still at the point in rehab where he wasn't going to be ready to take part in team workouts until next month, Savage said. Coach Romeo Crennel had said Dilfer would get a chance to compete with Frye for the starting job, but Savage indicated it was time for the Browns and Dilfer to part company.
Dilfer and offensive coordinator Maurice Carthon were at odds last season, but Savage said that relationship had no bearing on the trade.
Savage denied that Dilfer forced his way out of Cleveland. The other article used a Channel 3 source to say that Dilfer wanted out. But, from these two articles.......neither Savage, Crennel, or Dilfer said that he forced a trade.
Now, I can see how some people made the connections, but I'm not sure if that makes it the real truth.
Quote:
As you said, we disagree on KH. I believe all of what you say when it comes to you citing sources. I don't doubt your integrity one bit. We disagree on opinions at times, but I never question that you get information. I do believe you have sources that tell you things just as I have sources that tell me things. What probably has happened is you've heard from one person or set of people and I have another and THEY are actually giveing their point of view. The truth is probably somewhere between the two sources. In the end, we both know football and can agree on the vast majority of things.
I can live w/that. There is no need to agree on everything. I do respect how you approached this, unlike another dude on here who approaches it like a whiny little girl.
I should apologize for that comment. My daughter NEVER sounded so wimpish, even when she was little. I apologize to all the little girls out there.
Hey Coach.......we oughta hook up one day and compare stories. It would be interesting and maybe we can come closer to the real truth. I like the truth. I don't like BS rumors. You know what I mean?
Later, man.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
The article I remember reading stated that Dilfer threatened to retire if the Browns didn't trade him, and that his first choice was to go back to the left coast where his roots were. So the trade happened.
I wouldn't expect Savage to fess-up that Dilfer forced his way out. That would set a terrible precedent.
As far as how it effects Savage, I don't blame Savage for Dilfer's spat with Mo. I believe Savage made a good trade by acquiring a player for a 2nd day selection who was supposed to be a one-year starter and a viable backup for a couple more. I personally believe that's value for a pick that has roughly a 20% shot at panning out over the long-haul. Having said that, I do drop some of the blame on Opie for his hand in hiring Mo. That one goes on both Savage and Crennel.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,770
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,770 |
Quote:
I didn't care for the way the Dilfer thing came down,, but a player like Dilfer doesn't have the clout to demand much of anything really... It's not like he's Payton Manning or John Elway or Tom Brady.. so him demanding anything doesn't exactly excite me much...
Yes,but don't the facts of the matter bother you at all? I mean let's face it,Dilfer had been around. He knew plenty about what it takes to be a winner. He knew Mo Carthon certainly wasn't the answer. He wanted away from Mo,from my understanding,not necassarily the Browns per say. At least everything we've heard leads to that conclusion.
So what did our FO do? Let Dilfer go and kept Mo. So where did we end up from that "decision"?
Mo was gone after week 9 last year. Dilfer is gone. We gave up a 4th round draft choice to get him.
Now? No Mo. No Dilfer. We ended up losing a 4th rounder and Dilfer for a seventh rounder and a QB who hasn't even been shown to be much of a project much less a player.
Had the FO admited their mistake with Mo THEN,we might still have had Dilfer as solid veteran leadership for our young QB's. Did Phil let RAC's blind loyalty to Mo get in the way of "sound football decisions" in this case? I'm not sure,but it looks like that could be the case.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659
Poser
|
|
Poser
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659 |
The FO did the right thing. If Dilfer was trying to force Mo out, RAC and Savage should have gotten rid of Dilfer. That's not how it went down, but I am answering your question. You can't let DIlfer dictate the system, the coaching staff, etc. You simply don't allow that to happen. Period.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
Quote:
And now............Savage has made statements that the gap between Frye and Anderson has narrowed and there will be an open competition for the job.
You know me, I'm not trying to take this one sentence out of context, but I've seen it addressed and questioned by others too so I wanted to say something about it.
If I wanted both of those quarterbacks to work harder that's exactly what I would have said.
Charlie's going to work harder to keep his "leg up".
Anderson will work harder for what he sees as an opportunity.
Charlie didn't play like the unquestionable future of the franchise and Anderson did have that one really good half-a-game.
Competition as a form of motivation will make them both better.
Savage, RAC and the team stood behind Frye as the undisputed starter, although I agree that they didn't put him a very good position to succeed. They fed him milk and supported him unquestionably. Now, it's time for him to eat meat. He's got to work harder than ever. Getting there, although not easy, is a lot easier than staying there. The idea that he has open compitition this offseason is a good thing. He would have had that last offseason if not for Dilfer leaving. He should be able to work hard, step up and win that battle. To me it's only motivation.
Anderson needs some motivation too. Allowing him to compete for the starting gig gives him that. Charlie should beat him out. But not without Anderson getting better for it. That gives us an even better backup than we had.
I haven't had a problem with the comments from Savage and/or RAC that don't offer Frye glowing accolades. He has a lot of work to do to continue to improve. It's not a problem to me for them to "light a fire" under him to work even harder than he already does. It will only make him better.
As far as Savage having an interest in a veteran QB, even after he said he had none, is not that big a deal to me. He never went all-out for any of those QB's. He did seem to offer his "due diligence" in seeing what it would take to bring one in. But he really didn't try all that hard to pull the trigger on any of them for all I know.
And I'll give him some credit for having talked to Frye and Anderson about his interest in Trent Green. I thought that was solid.
All the talk about possibly drafting a QB is all talk at this point. I tend to not believe anything that anyone says or put much stock into anything anyone does going into the draft. I just can't discern a strong interest from due diligence from smoke blowing no matter how hard I study quotes and actions or outsiders or board member's opinions.
Like you, I'm not sold on Frye yet either, and neither am I willing to give up on him after so little time. I see enough from him to want to see more. I believe his problems are about half his own, half on the line and others around him and half on the changing offensive coordinators. (I mean really, dude's about to play his 19th game and it will be under his 3rd offensive coordinator).
I also believe they will all get better or drown.
And just like Toad and eveyone else knows rule number one; "life is not fair", I think if we draft the left tackle and a guard on day one it will be a little more fair to one of our quarterbacks than it has been to any of them to this point of our return.
Quote:
..........I'm not asking you to believe that KH would have been a good fit here, but I am asking you to question whether KH and 4th rd. pick would have been better than Dorsey and a 7th.
I know you asked this of Riddler but I have a take on it as well.
I'm not sure the question is valid because those were not the options. It leaves out the Dilfer thing in the middle.
I think the better question would be; whether KH and a 4th rd. pick would have been better than Dilfer at QB for a year or two and then as a veteran mentor/backup?
That was the real option facing Savage at the time. Dorsey and the 7th didn't even exist at that point.
Because as bad as Dilfer was/is he was a proven winner in Baltimore and a proven mentor in Seattle. His character was without question at that time. His experience compared to KH was vast.
I think keeping KH and the 4th rd. pick would have been best. But apparently it wasn't meant to be and it seems KH had as much to do about that as anyone.
KH was also a part of the losing culture in Cleveland. Something in which Savage made swift actions to remove from the team as he dumped much of the roster.
He gave KH an offer, then took it back when he felt KH took too long to accept it or turned it down or whatever. And the fact that it was for more money than any other offer, and there was only one other he had to choose from, should have said something to the effect that Savage would have been good with KH here.
Savage let the undecided/decided KH go and subsequently traded the 4th rd. pick for Dilfer: experienced superbowl winner and veteran mentor/backup for when we drafted a QB.
He didn't trade KH and a 4th rd. pick , (and I know you don't say he did but your question makes it sound like that), because at that point in time he traded the pick he didn't even have KH.
KH was a free agent and he left, for whatever reason, but not because someone offered him more money elsewhere or because Savage didn't make him the best offer.
Perhaps Savage felt that it was the best offer KH had on the table and he should have jumped on it if he really wanted to play for Cleveland. Maybe Savage figured that since KH didn't jump on the best offer he had on the table to play in Cleveland that maybe KH wasn't sure if he wanted to play in Cleveland. Maybe Savage figured that if KH wasn't sure if he wanted to play for Cleveland then screw him. He'd get someone who does.
And the fact that he brought Dilfer in so quickly could be a testiment to the due dilligence Savage pays to have his bases covered. Remember when Vereba went off? We had someone else in here the next day. I doubt veery much that Savage leaned on KH as his only option, only to find himself in a pickle if KH walked.
Maybe the same kind of thing happened to Tim Couch when we pulled our offer from him and got Garcia. I don't know.
Since KH couldn't decide if he wanted to be here, or decided not to due to extenuating circumstances, I feel Dilfer was better than kowtowing, if that's what it was going to take, to keep KH.
I don't know what Savage had to do with KH not accepting his offer. But the offer was made. I don't know if there's a lot Savage could do once it reached a certain point. Maybe offer him even more money; bid against himself. I don't know. Maybe Savage didn't see KH as being worth bidding aginst himself.
Obviously, getting someone else was going to cost something so it cost a 4th rd. pick.
The next question would be; would keeping a disgruntled Dilfer who apparently didn't want to play for his coach and/or be a backup just yet, be better than allowing him to go home and getting Dorsey and a 7th rd. pick in lieu of the possibility of Dilfer retiring and getting nothing in return?
In this case I choose the latter.
Dilfer came here as the epitome of a team player with unrivaled character. He left here an ass and a cancer. In my opinion players who don't want to play for their coach are cancers. If the coach is wrong it'll play out. (I'm not sure he was).
I'm not sure Savage could have done a lot about the Dilfer thing either. He may have made a bad judgement in Dilfer's character as a team player but if he did, so did everyone else in the football world. It seems absolutely everyone applauded Savage for bringing Dilfer here as he was just what we needed in Cleveland at that time.
And I'll say this for Savage, he downplayed any wrong doing on Dilfer's part and managed to work out a deal, even if was not the best deal for the Browns, so Dilfer could go home an play and be satisfied even though I feel Dilfer screwed the team over.
And so, in the end, no one seems to see Dilfer in a bad light even though he appears to have been the disgruntled one who initiated all the crying and whinning from the git-go. I know there's no quotes to back that up, but it looks obvious to me. Savage took care of him even though I don't believe he deserved it. I think that was solid too.
Maybe all that was too full of maybes. I could have been wrong about a lot of what I said since I didn't do any reasearch of articles to try and get facts straight, I pretty much winged it using my own opinion. Besides, articles don't tell the real story anyway.
I just felt that from the moment KH left until Dorsey and the 7th got here a lot transpired. In the end I suppose it could be looked at as KH and a 4th rd. pick for Dorsey and a 7th if you wanted to. But I tried to show that I think there's a hell of a lot more to it than that and that I don't believe it can all be laid on Savage as stupid moves. It's just how it all boiled down in the end.
Savage gave Dilfer a chance to start. That's what he wanted. Dilfer then crapped on Mo and subsquently Savage and the team as well. I don't fault Savage for that any more than I fault him for signing Bently and then having Bentley go down.
So I made some excuses for him.
After all, he is my hero.
Just kidding, but my main source is the media, the team and my own discernment of what I'm hearing and seeing. With that, I just can't blame Savage for everything that went bad from the moment he let KH walk 'til he ended up with Dorsey and the 7th.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
As always.........very eloquent and very respectful. Other than that......I think you are whacked. I'm not going to spend a lot of time on this, because I told you all that I knew what went down and it didn't go down the way you are all saying it did. I thought some would want more light on the truth, but I have a feeling that the perception of the truth is more important to most than the actual truth. Quote:
Quote:
And now............Savage has made statements that the gap between Frye and Anderson has narrowed and there will be an open competition for the job.
You know me, I'm not trying to take this one sentence out of context, but I've seen it addressed and questioned by others too so I wanted to say something about it.
You did take it out of context. I was talking to Riddler and I said something to the effect of so what if Dilfer was unhappy...Savage didn't need to trade him. Riddler responded w/that if you have two quarterbacks, then you have none. I was simply pointing out that we do have a competition for the starting job and the off season ain't over yet.
Let me make this clear............in no way was I bad-mouthing Savage for creating a competition. So, you typed a lot for nothing, other than it perhaps makes me look like my entire premise is way off base.
As to the rest..........whatever you wanna think. Like I said.......I think perception is more important than reality around here.
Every time I try to shed some light on a topic that most people don't know about....it backfires. Carry on and keep telling yourselves that we are on the right track.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,620
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,620 |
Quote:
First off............Daman, Cap, and Attack.....did you guys even read my explanations, or did you just focus in on a couple of comments? Because I already answered that [censored].
Yeah, I read a lot of what's on here, yours and others. I agree with a lot of what you say - you typically make sense. If I feel the need to respond to part of a post I don't then reply to other parts just to make sure no part of the post feels neglected.
If you had some further explanation/comment on the topic I missed it. This thread is getting out of hand, so I'm sure I didn't absorb it all. If that's the case, I apologize.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
Awww........don't apologize Cap. You're a good guy and I am almost positive you really did just miss it. I'm giving up on this anyway. It's not worth the time and aggravation. People aren't really interested in looking at things from a different perspective, especially if that perspective threatens their "reality."
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,770
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,770 |
Quote:
The FO did the right thing. If Dilfer was trying to force Mo out, RAC and Savage should have gotten rid of Dilfer. That's not how it went down, but I am answering your question. You can't let DIlfer dictate the system, the coaching staff, etc. You simply don't allow that to happen. Period.
You know Coach,nobody said anything about letting Dilfer "force anybody out".
The simple fact is,Mo SUCKED and Phil had the choice of which direction to go. Lots of people could plainly see after year one,that Mo's playcalling ability and handle on the O side of the ball was sub standard to put it mildly.
So it wasn't a question of "who was forcing who out" It was a question of which direction forward was best for this team.A GM shouldn't look at personality conflicts or any other factors accept wht's best for the team.
Now if you feel keeping Mo in exchange for losing our veteran leadership at QB is what was best for our Browns,then fine. But in the end,we ended up with neither.
It was Phils decision which direction to go here. Not Mo's,not Dilfers.He chose to dump the veteran QB and keep Mo. Only half a season later,he dumped Mo too. That's a lose,lose proposition for the Browns. We ended up with no veteran QB and tossed Mo too.
Dumping Mo THEN,would have kept veteran leadership at the QB position and netted us a new OC a season sooner. We would be ahead of the curve by now having a new system a year sooner and still have our veteran. A win/win for the Browns.
As it stands? Now,a year later,we're back to square one with an entirely new OC and no veteran. Now you can spin that any way you want. But the results of his decisions pretty much has put us a season behind.
Or are you suggesting Mo did such a fine job in year one that he deserved to stay? It wasn't Dilfers decision to make,it was Phils. And you just need to look at the results to see that Mo was never the answer. He stuck with Mo too long and as a result,we lost our veteran QB too in that process.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Owens feels system changes
affecting Frye - Part Deux
|
|
