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That's what I remember,, Thanks P
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On the first play, looks like he was looking for the receiver to go back towards the line. It would have taken a pretty good throw to hit the WR over the middle. The FS looks like he's baiting the QB and he has to put it over two LBs, so he can't just fire it in. Looks doable for Weeden, sure, but also dangerous IMO. The posture of the receiver to the right looks like he's stopping, maybe Weeden thought he was going to go back and sit in that open spot on an option route. He has two defenders running away from him and a big open area behind him. That looks like a easy big play. I'm not saying that's absolutely what's going on, but I don't think it's as cut and dry as the writer means to insinuate. Remember, the defenders can move, too, and they're probably going to move in the direction their bodies are facing.
I remember this sack play pretty vividly. The DT dropped the OL and was on Weeden in an instant. He should have gotten it out to Bess earlier but once the DT got free it was over. From that freeze frame that's a tip/pick waiting to happen. Not a chance he completes that corner route, are you kidding?
On the third play, everyone is just standing up. Look at Gordon, he's on his heels. Little and his defender are walking. Gurley looks like he's headed off the field. The OL is just standing still. And we're talking about who is open on this play?
The last play, he's clearly looking at the post and it's not time to throw it yet. You see the DT is already past Mack and Lauvao is losing his man, too. What happened next was inexcusable, but the open play is what he was going for here... at least initially.
Point of me saying this is I don't think any of this is as black-and-white as it may seem on the surface.
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It's pretty obvious Weeden comes to the line knowing who he is going to target and pretty much sticks with it. That's ok if his target is open. Not so good if he isn't.
I agree. He either just doesn't, or just can't, process what it is going on out there. I think the NFL game is just too fast for him and he really can't evaluate the situation as it's happening.
We heard about how the team spent the week reminding him to get the ball out quicker. He did not.
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It's pretty obvious Weeden comes to the line knowing who he is going to target and pretty much sticks with it. That's ok if his target is open. Not so good if he isn't.
Yup. He's a one-read QB, which isn't a bad thing in this league...if you can run like Kaep, Vick, Griffin, etc.
When you're a 30-year old, lead-footed pocket-passer, well, you end up on the bench.
Weeden can go through is progressions, but he's very below-average at it. It appears for all intents and purposes that he's just got a slow football mind. There's no overcoming that.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Weeden can go through is progressions, but he's very below-average at it. It appears for all intents and purposes that he's just got a slow football mind. There's no overcoming that.
Agreed. And we appear to be STUCK with him for the rest of the season. God help us.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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And we appear to be STUCK with him for the rest of the season.
I will be (mildly) surprised in fact, that is true. You just have to believe that LomBanner is scouring the "woods" to see if they can come up with a viable alternative. And this is coming from a Weeden supporter (but I have to be realistic here)... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Quote:
Quote:
And we appear to be STUCK with him for the rest of the season.
I will be (mildly) surprised in fact, that is true. You just have to believe that LomBanner is scouring the "woods" to see if they can come up with a viable alternative. And this is coming from a Weeden supporter (but I have to be realistic here)...
I don't think so. At this point, why?
We have Weeden and Campbell...maybe some other guy I am unaware of. We also have Hoyer, be him out.
Anybody worth a flip will want a couple of years worth of contracts and at minimum will need 2-3-4 weeks to get up to speed.
I don't see us investing a whole lot in a player who might get to play in 6-7 games.
I don't see it as throwing in the towel, but sometimes it is what it is. We had a QB who looked good and he got hurt. Take away any teams starting QB and things aren't going to look real good. There aren't any QBs out there who are better than Weeds or Campbell, unless you are looking to trade for one...and that isn't going to happen.
We have Hoyer for next year and we will possibly be drafting a QB. We are just going to ride it out with what we have.
JMO
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agreed.
On top of all you just mentioned, there's this:
What kind of results would any reasonable fan expect from a QB who hasn't yet seen the Browns' playbook and isn't even yet on the team?
How many weeks before he can execute even HALF of it?
What kind of timing/chemistry could he develop with the rec corps?
This ain't Madden.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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That's probably true barring any injuries to Weeden or Campbell..
#GMSTRONG
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On the first play, looks like he was looking for the receiver to go back towards the line. It would have taken a pretty good throw to hit the WR over the middle. The FS looks like he's baiting the QB and he has to put it over two LBs, so he can't just fire it in. Looks doable for Weeden, sure, but also dangerous IMO. The posture of the receiver to the right looks like he's stopping, maybe Weeden thought he was going to go back and sit in that open spot on an option route. He has two defenders running away from him and a big open area behind him. That looks like a easy big play. I'm not saying that's absolutely what's going on, but I don't think it's as cut and dry as the writer means to insinuate. Remember, the defenders can move, too, and they're probably going to move in the direction their bodies are facing.
I remember this sack play pretty vividly. The DT dropped the OL and was on Weeden in an instant. He should have gotten it out to Bess earlier but once the DT got free it was over. From that freeze frame that's a tip/pick waiting to happen. Not a chance he completes that corner route, are you kidding?
On the third play, everyone is just standing up. Look at Gordon, he's on his heels. Little and his defender are walking. Gurley looks like he's headed off the field. The OL is just standing still. And we're talking about who is open on this play?
The last play, he's clearly looking at the post and it's not time to throw it yet. You see the DT is already past Mack and Lauvao is losing his man, too. What happened next was inexcusable, but the open play is what he was going for here... at least initially.
Point of me saying this is I don't think any of this is as black-and-white as it may seem on the surface.
Quoted because it deserves to be. Weeden did miss some throws in the second half, no doubt otherwise we would have moved the ball better, but scapegoating him and dumping every freaking fail play on him is incredibly short-sighted and deviating from far more urgent questions (who should run, coaching, what the hell happened to Kruger? Is Lauvao showing enough to keep his job once Pinkston is read? Has Schwartz regressed again after some better games? etc etc)
You've been a bastion of agenda and hypocrisy-free posting. You're hypocrisy-free island, lol
That's probably why nobody seems to respond to your good posts that get overlooked too much.
I'm not trying to pull a "coach-Vers" pat on the back here and hopefully you won't get muddled into a "side" with me now because of this (he's certainly NOT, just read his posts) from one of the black/white haters. Just pointing out that you've been fair, consistent and have a good eye and very few qualify for all three around here.
Looking forward to talk draft with you again this winter. I'll try to do some position threads again for this draft, it was fun and is a good reference to look back to and learn from.
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For those of you who didn't see it, this was the article about the Browns in Monday's Plain Dealer newspaper. (LOVE IT!) 
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Good one 
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Quote:
On the first play, looks like he was looking for the receiver to go back towards the line. It would have taken a pretty good throw to hit the WR over the middle. The FS looks like he's baiting the QB and he has to put it over two LBs, so he can't just fire it in. Looks doable for Weeden, sure, but also dangerous IMO. The posture of the receiver to the right looks like he's stopping, maybe Weeden thought he was going to go back and sit in that open spot on an option route. He has two defenders running away from him and a big open area behind him. That looks like a easy big play. I'm not saying that's absolutely what's going on, but I don't think it's as cut and dry as the writer means to insinuate. Remember, the defenders can move, too, and they're probably going to move in the direction their bodies are facing.
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Point of me saying this is I don't think any of this is as black-and-white as it may seem on the surface.
I'm going to quote these two because I think the second quote will play off of what I want to say, and I think the first quote is a good example of it.
Let's go back to the dropped Gordon pass by Hoyer in the Bills game...the one that looked like he could have maybe taken it to the house. I would bet dollars to donuts that if you captured a still frame of Hoyer as he's about to release the ball, it would look nothing like you think it would. I bet Gordon wouldn't even look open. In other words, Hoyer was playing quickly with anticipation of how the play was going to unfold, where Gordon was going to be, and essentially throwing him open on the play.
I think your criticism of that first play still might be fair, but Weeden shouldn't be looking to throw to the middle of the field at the point in the still. He should have already released the ball ... thereby, negating any safety that is baiting him. He just doesn't process the information fast enough.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I completely do NOT have any faith in the new regime to get the QB pick right next spring.
If anything, I think this regime has done a lot to build trust and confidence. I feel the exact opposite of you. I think we might finally have a FO that gets it right.
I'm starting to think Banner might be the best FO guy we've ever had. Need to see a bigger body of work, but I like what I'm seeing so far.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quote:
Let's go back to the dropped Gordon pass by Hoyer in the Bills game...the one that looked like he could have maybe taken it to the house. I would bet dollars to donuts that if you captured a still frame of Hoyer as he's about to release the ball, it would look nothing like you think it would. I bet Gordon wouldn't even look open. In other words, Hoyer was playing quickly with anticipation of how the play was going to unfold, where Gordon was going to be, and essentially throwing him open on the play.
Yes, this is probably true. Hoyer has played with more anticipation / trusted that his receivers would get open better.
I do think it's fair to say that the receiver over the middle could be getting the ball about where the frame is.
Last edited by clevesteve; 10/16/13 03:52 PM.
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Well, all their aquisitions are trending down right now:
The draft is looking pretty bad right now. The best move was and remains trading for Bess, that was a plus. The rest? Not so much. Mingo plays like a situational pass rusher and outside of some speed and/or hustle was pretty bad in the games he had to start. He just doesn't beat anyone with power or moves, just speed. He's still sooo raw, too raw to get picked where he was imho. At 6 overall, you just need more instant return, not some guy who needs half his rookie contract to look like a capable 3 down player. Those flyers on projects you take later on.
McFadden? The best part tp say about him is that we haven't seen him yet.
Slaughter got cut, Gilkey should have been. At least A.Bryant is showing something, but not a Billy Winn type yet.
Not so good overall.
FA:
D.Bryant: he is a success. One of the best defenders. Very good signing.
Kruger is struggling since he doesn't have Sheard on the other side. He plays against RTs and has only 1 sack on the season.
Owens: flip a coin with McFadden
Campbell: oh well
Hmmm....
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The draft is looking pretty bad right now.
Judging rookies after only six weeks of play is always the right thing to do.
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#gmstrong
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At least A.Bryant is showing something, but not a Billy Winn type yet.
"Sure they did something right, but it's not even as good as that one time something went really, really right for us."
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no mention of Hoyer?
I only looked at starters. Hoyer to me is a backup, but he was a very good signing as he's under contract another season and offers good depth at a crucial position, that's way more than anyone expected. Groves was another good depth signing...Barnidge, well he's ok, but TEs like him are dime a dozen, everybody has one like him. Cundiff and Lanning are solidly AVG at their jobs, solid signigns so far.
Then come the plethora of UDFA rooks we haven't seen much of yet. Rainey we've seen the most and he's a replaceable runner and even worse KR.
Their moves did look better some weeks ago, but since then Mingo and Kruger, 2 of their biggest investments, have gone south with their performance. We will see at the end of the year, but I'm not excited and the early draft return is simply underwhelming and doesn't change my skepticism regarding their evaluation skills.
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Quote:
Quote:
At least A.Bryant is showing something, but not a Billy Winn type yet.
"Sure they did something right, but it's not even as good as that one time something went really, really right for us."
A good rotational/backup player is a good pick in the late rounds, but hardly "really, really right", that'd be Sherman or Colston.
Anyway, the draft isn't looking good and your translation does not qualify as an argument against it. There's some time and hope left though, we will see, but the trends aren't encouraging
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Anyway, the draft isn't looking good
It is week seven of the 2013 season. Stop.
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but hardly "really, really right", that'd be Sherman or Colston.
Sorry, my definition of "really, really right" and your definition of "really, really right" is different.
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Quote:
On the first play, looks like he was looking for the receiver to go back towards the line. It would have taken a pretty good throw to hit the WR over the middle. The FS looks like he's baiting the QB and he has to put it over two LBs, so he can't just fire it in. Looks doable for Weeden, sure, but also dangerous IMO. The posture of the receiver to the right looks like he's stopping, maybe Weeden thought he was going to go back and sit in that open spot on an option route. He has two defenders running away from him and a big open area behind him. That looks like a easy big play. I'm not saying that's absolutely what's going on, but I don't think it's as cut and dry as the writer means to insinuate. Remember, the defenders can move, too, and they're probably going to move in the direction their bodies are facing.
Quote:
Point of me saying this is I don't think any of this is as black-and-white as it may seem on the surface.
I'm going to quote these two because I think the second quote will play off of what I want to say, and I think the first quote is a good example of it.
Let's go back to the dropped Gordon pass by Hoyer in the Bills game...the one that looked like he could have maybe taken it to the house. I would bet dollars to donuts that if you captured a still frame of Hoyer as he's about to release the ball, it would look nothing like you think it would. I bet Gordon wouldn't even look open. In other words, Hoyer was playing quickly with anticipation of how the play was going to unfold, where Gordon was going to be, and essentially throwing him open on the play.
I think your criticism of that first play still might be fair, but Weeden shouldn't be looking to throw to the middle of the field at the point in the still. He should have already released the ball ... thereby, negating any safety that is baiting him. He just doesn't process the information fast enough.
Good discussion here. Well done.
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his lack of anticipation is exactly what I saw Sunday. You could see him holding the ball wating for WR's to make the cut and clear the coverage,
By the time he released, the ILB or safties were already closing down on the WR,
he doesn't throw recievers open as it were.
His wating until they clear also lends itself to his staring receivers down.
So it all seems to be inter-connected and starts with his either lack of confidence in his ability or his inability to digets mentally what is happening ( or going to happen) on the field.
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A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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That's probably true barring any injuries to Weeden or Campbell..
It's even more true if one gets hurt.
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Has there been any numbers posted on Weeden for Pre Injury and Post Injury Release Time?
Before injury, wasn't it around 4.3 seconds? It doesn't appear to have gotten any faster after watching Hoyer from the sidelines for two games.
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They have stated twice on the radio show that his release time for the Lions game was 3 seconds. I'm assuming that was an average, they did not clarify.
I'm really surprised no one has mentioned this and especially surprised that DJ has not brought it up.
IMO, Weeds and the rest of the team played a very good first half. What happened in the second half I just don't know. The defense definitely collapsed. Weeds needed to make a play, and he never did.
Coming out at the half flatter than a pancake is something this team has been doing for years. I have gone past wondering if it is possible that someone is spiking the Gatorade at halftime, to seriously considering what types of pharmaceuticals they might be using.
Diluted, bad LSD is my current best guess.
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Well, all their aquisitions are trending down right now:
The draft is looking pretty bad right now. The best move was and remains trading for Bess, that was a plus. The rest? Not so much. Mingo plays like a situational pass rusher and outside of some speed and/or hustle was pretty bad in the games he had to start. He just doesn't beat anyone with power or moves, just speed. He's still sooo raw, too raw to get picked where he was imho. At 6 overall, you just need more instant return, not some guy who needs half his rookie contract to look like a capable 3 down player. Those flyers on projects you take later on.
McFadden? The best part tp say about him is that we haven't seen him yet.
Slaughter got cut, Gilkey should have been. At least A.Bryant is showing something, but not a Billy Winn type yet.
Not so good overall.
FA:
D.Bryant: he is a success. One of the best defenders. Very good signing.
Kruger is struggling since he doesn't have Sheard on the other side. He plays against RTs and has only 1 sack on the season.
Owens: flip a coin with McFadden
Campbell: oh well
Hmmm....
Oh PLEASE.
#GMSTRONG
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NRTU. Quote:
Weeden not losing sleep over “boneheaded” interception
Posted by Michael David Smith on October 16, 2013, 8:42 PM EDT
Detroit Lions v Cleveland Browns Getty Images
Browns quarterback Brandon Weeden ended his team’s hopes of a fourth-quarter comeback with an ugly interception that Weeden himself described as “boneheaded.” But Weeden says he’s ready to move on.
Weeden told the Cleveland Plain Dealer that far from dwelling on the interception against the Lions, in which he backhanded the ball into the arms of Detroit’s DeAndre Levy, he is moving on and focusing on Sunday’s game against the Packers.
“It’s behind me. I didn’t lose any sleep over it. It stung at the time,” Weeden said.
For Browns fans, the news that Weeden didn’t lose any sleep over his interception won’t necessarily be welcome. Some fans would like to hear that Weeden is flogging himself for that throw. But as long as Weeden remains the Browns’ starter, the team is better off if he can keep looking ahead, and put that interception as far behind him as possible.
That's from PFT.
I'm not posting it to throw dirt on Weeds. That article woulda made it here sooner or later. I'm posting it to make a point, which is that at some point the story is over and it's time to move on.
Any fans who think Weeds should continue to fall on his sword over that play are putting their dislike for him over the good of the team.
I don't want any QB chewing over the fat of that play for weeks on end. Weeden SHOULD forget about it and move on. You can be damned sure he won't make that mistake again, which is the only thing we can ask for from that situation.
It's time to put that play in the rear-view mirror.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Gotta have a short memory.. Just like a Closer in Baseball.. Having said that, I still don't see him as the answer at QB.
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Saw it last season. He blows leads. No lead is safe with this kid. I think we also are allowing a little more defensively in second half. To give up a crushing rush to play flabby zone (our LB and flat areas are strafed) is just lame judgment. We stop doing effective stuff; that is sidelines AND on the field IMO. Weeds just lowers the bar for himself and kills us. I need to see better and crisper execution. People also are seeing more film on us. They are adjusting to us and we are not fooling them now.  Play flat out.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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I would go with Hoyer and just take Manziel late first, if we dont bring in Mallett that is. Weeden becomes a backup and studies QB 101.
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OP
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Drafting Manziel is probably the one move that would give me the least amount of faith in our FO.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Manziel the football player is definitely worth a first round pick. They just need to find out if Manziel the person is also worth a first round pick.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
Manziel the football player is definitely worth a first round pick. They just need to find out if Manziel the person is also worth a first round pick.
I don't think either are a first round pick.
I certainly wouldn't want to take the chance on finding out.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
You've seen him play, right?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Yeah.
I think he's a superior college player who will face a steep uphill battle to make it in the pro game.
Couple that with his character concerns, and I wouldn't touch him before the third.
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