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After yesterday's performance the point has been driven home, for me, that whoever the team selects has to be mobile. Now that isn't the only criteria but it is among the must haves along with arm strength, pocket presence and decision making. They don't have to be Cam Newton but they gotta have wheels.
Does Campbell have wheels? Does Hoyer, really?
I don't know that this is a top concern. I would think that accuracy, ball placement, leadership, and any number of other traits would be way ahead of running ability. A QB has to be able to move effectively in the pocket, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he has to be able to run a 4.3 40. Knowing how and where to step in the pocket is far more important.
You misunderstood me. The ability to move adequately, to extend plays by being able to avoid the rush by maneuvering within the pocket is fine to me. If there is enough athleticism on the part of the QB to occasionally get upfield to convert a third down that's a plus. I'm not over emphasizing a QB's running ability. The read option style of play creates as many risks as it provides benefits. Add to that it's not a part of the offense we run so, no. The complexity of the defensive fronts QB's face combined with the speed and power of today's pass rushers makes the lack of mobility a real liability. Campbell doesn't have a day like he did yesterday without being able to move.
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Legend
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Let's assume for a minute that the Browns are pleased enough with Hoyer/Campbell and not pleased enough with the "top" QBs coming out this year. (Which describes me to a 'T'...although I'll admit I've not seen a lot of the "top" guys very much.)
I don't truly believe this FO will be "pleased" at the QB position until they have what one could call an "elite QB". You don't find a list of those in any draft. I believe if they see what they feel is a good bet to land one in this draft, they'll do everything in their power to land "the guy".
If not, at that point you're looking at players you feel "may have the potential to turn into the guy". I don't believe at that point you do much to acquire one of those. If none falls to you or you feel a minor trade up is needed to land one, you do so.
ie..... A mid 3rd round QB is not a serious attempt to "land a franchise QB". It's simply taking a risk on a guy you feel may develop. Despite what you have been reading on this board!
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What if we get a FA haul on O like we did last year on D?
What if we get a G & WR2 in FA?
I'm starting to think that we will trade some of this year's haul (picks) to get another 1st in 2015.
I won't get into our biggest needs in the draft predicated on the point you just brought up. What we do in the FA market will have a profound impact on what we need going into the draft. Unless of course we sign an edge rusher.
I mean we could sign one and draft one. You know as well as I do that you can NEVER have enough of those!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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ie..... A mid 3rd round QB is not a serious attempt to "land a franchise QB". It's simply taking a risk on a guy you feel may develop. Despite what you have been reading on this board!
I've had to agree with you like 3 times today.. stop it.
yebat' Putin
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ie..... A mid 3rd round QB is not a serious attempt to "land a franchise QB". It's simply taking a risk on a guy you feel may develop. Despite what you have been reading on this board!
I've had to agree with you like 3 times today.. stop it.
Well I quit debating politics, so that HAS TO HELP!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Makes perfect sense...I'm of the opinion that there isn't a QB worth trading up for...but I wouldn't be upset if we took one that they really liked...and that could go for whatever round we take the guy.
I just don't want to trade picks to move up for a guy who isn't seen as being elite. Let the draft come to you. (Easier said now that Campbell and Hoyer appear to be good...or better than that.)
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Just Clicking.
I know he's a real young one at 19. But no mention of Jameis Winston?
Jameis Winston cannot come out in this draft. He would only become eligible for the 2015 NFL draft.
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I think we need an upgrade at G and ILB...moreso than anywhere else...then probably a tie at WR and S. The second need could become a three-way tie if Lewis can't return at RB.
I think that we've pretty much seen the end of the RBs (barring legitimate special talent) in the first round.
In regards to the OG and ILB spots, I agree. Gabe Jackson will be a very good one. If you're looking to get one further down in the draft, I think Wisconsin's Groy will be a good one or Spencer Long from Nebraska. We could also look at plugging Garrett Gilkey in there. He couldn't be a downgrade to what we have now.
While I think we could use an upgrade or insurance at the WR spot, I don't know how much we really need a safety. I would prefer to add another TE target over either the WR or S spots. There are some really good TE prospects coming out in this draft.
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I don't see many 1st Rd picks spent on 3-4 ILBs. Some people have a fit when considering a 1st Rd G. We won't spend a 1st on a RB.
There aren't many that are used on 3-4 ILBs. I happen to like 'the president' Andrew Jackson out of Western Kentucky a lot. I don't think I would draft him in the 1st round at this point, but I would use a 3rd rounder on him without a 2nd thought.
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If we end up where it appears we might...and the Colts keep winning...and we don't have a crush on any QB...could we simply take the best G, S, or WR available at the moment we pick?
That wouldn't be a bad pick, but I like Jordan Matthews out of Vandy. I like Allen Robinson out of Penn State too. I also like Donte Moncrief out of Ole Miss.
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What if we get a FA haul on O like we did last year on D?
What if we get a G & WR2 in FA?
I'm starting to think that we will trade some of this year's haul (picks) to get another 1st in 2015.
I wouldn't expect it. We might get a player or so, but I wouldn't count on it. I think we'll be looking to build through the draft. I could imagine us even trading back or trading away a pick or two (like last year) for future picks. I don't know about another first in 2015, but I could see trading away a third or fourth rounder for a pick a round earlier in 2015. It might depend upon where we draft in each round and what kind of compensatory picks (if any) that we get in return for lost free agents.
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Legend
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... and catch what the Garappolo show is all about.
If you get ESPN3, you can watch Garappolo on Nov. 16 & Nov. 23. I don't get ESPN3 on my cable, but would like to hear what you and others think about him. I've only read scouting reports, which are glowing, and seen youtube video highlights, which are poorly shot.
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I wouldn't expect it. We might get a player or so, but I wouldn't count on it. I think we'll be looking to build through the draft. I could imagine us even trading back or trading away a pick or two (like last year) for future picks. I don't know about another first in 2015, but I could see trading away a third or fourth rounder for a pick a round earlier in 2015. It might depend upon where we draft in each round and what kind of compensatory picks (if any) that we get in return for lost free agents.
I kind of agree with that, but think about this...
If we finish with a pick between 10-20, and in there, we find our QB for the future, you have that other Indy pick, probably 20-32.
This is a DEEP qb class. Think about the deal you could possibly make with a team trying to trade back into the first... You could net back picks this year and more importantly 1's in the future.
Depending on who stays in school and who declares, I think at least 6 guys, maybe even 9 could have round 1 grades.
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I wouldn't expect it. We might get a player or so, but I wouldn't count on it. I think we'll be looking to build through the draft. I could imagine us even trading back or trading away a pick or two (like last year) for future picks. I don't know about another first in 2015, but I could see trading away a third or fourth rounder for a pick a round earlier in 2015. It might depend upon where we draft in each round and what kind of compensatory picks (if any) that we get in return for lost free agents.
I kind of agree with that, but think about this...
If we finish with a pick between 10-20, and in there, we find our QB for the future, you have that other Indy pick, probably 20-32.
This is a DEEP qb class. Think about the deal you could possibly make with a team trying to trade back into the first... You could net back picks this year and more importantly 1's in the future.
Depending on who stays in school and who declares, I think at least 6 guys, maybe even 9 could have round 1 grades.
You might be right, but if there is a player that can help the Browns and the team doesn't think that they'll be able to get that player if they trade back out of the first round, they may just sit where they are and draft the player that can help them.
Your scenario might still happen though. We could very well trade out of either our own 1st or the only we got from Indy or even both.
I simply don't see that many QBs being taken in the 1st round of the draft.
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I simply don't see [six to nine] QBs being taken in the 1st round of the draft.
Jacksonville, Minnesota, Tampa Bay, Arizona, and us will all definitely be in the market for a QB. Then there are the teams that need to see the guy they have for the rest of the season: Houston, Oakland, and Philadelphia. The Rams also have a tough decision to make with Sam Bradford. That is nine teams right there who could potentially draft a QB in first round.
Also, as we know teams reach for QBs in the first round (see; Weeden, Brandon and Ponder, Christian). Furthermore, teams are more likely to take risks in the first round because they are no longer bogged down by the enormous rookie contracts.
While it may seem outlandish to say that there will be six to nine QBs drafted in the first round there are already three guys that are for sure first round picks if they come out of school (Bridgewater, Mariota, and Manziel) and several other guys who can work there way into the first round based on team need and position scarcity (Mettenberger, Hundley, Carr, Boyd, Fales, etc.).
My hope is that we do not panic and draft a QB because it is a shiny object (see; Heckert, Tom or Holmgren, Mike), but draft the best player available, within reason, and let our QB come to us.
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All Pro
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I dont think we should be eyeing/trading up in the 1st for a QB. If our target falls to us, great. If not, we have sufficient talent at the QB spot to allow us to pick someone up in the first 3 rounds and allow them to mature for a year or two.
What I think we need in the draft, in no particular order.
Safety- Gibpson has been a nice suprise but we seriously lack talent after the starters
CB/WR- I believe every team should draft atleast one of each every year. It would be nice to find a CB with some size. CB Roby/Roberson WR Mike Evans(beast) Lee/Watkins.
OL/DL - as with the CB/WR's, we should be drafting atleast one of each every year.
TE- Cameron has stepped up, but we are thin at this position.
RB- WE need a back with some size. Losing Trich has seriously hurt our ability in short yardage situations. Hyde/Gurley
QB- What I stated above. I'm eyeing Mariotta, Bridgewater, Mettenberger, Boyd, Hundley in that order. I want nothing to do with Manziel. I believe he will be a distraction and although he is creative and fun to watch, I dont believe he has the mechanics for the NFL and needs some serious work.
ILB- We need to get some quality depth at this position. Shazier/Bullough/Mosely
This year we should be able to draft for bpa. Its been a long time since we have had that luxury. My pre-pre draft crush is Mike Evans Ta&m
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I simply don't see that many QBs being taken in the 1st round of the draft.
Yeah, although after last night, maybe some of these teams set at QB may want to think about investing in a backup. I still can't believe they trotted out Seneca Wallace. That's a team thought of to compete for a Super Bowl. I'm still blown away by that.
What usually happens is you get that early run on QB's between 1-15, the marginal teams usually pass, the playoff teams almost always pass. Maybe someone comes in with a deal (like we did for Quinn)
I'm not in love with any of these QB's in the draft, but I also know how hard it is to judge guys from one level to the next.
I do like the "let the QB fall to us" scenario. It has worked well for all of the other teams in our division. None were top ten picks, and all 3 are pretty solid QB's, 2 of them winning Super Bowls.
I have to say though, if we draft a QB with our pick which will probably be in the teens... and one of these guys like Watkins or Evans, etc... are available. Man just go ahead and get more explosive. I'm getting on board with everyone else on Watkins. I think Chud could fit him into a few different spots in that offense.
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Like I've said before, our future QB is already in the NFL.
It's a deal that was rumored last year and never happened, that will happen this offseason.
Ryan Mallet.
I'm not sure how I feel about it, but I just have this feeling that is going to happen this offseason.
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I think the Mallett ship has sailed. He will be a free agent after the 2014 season. That means a few things:
1. His value drops because the team that trades for him will either have to sign him to an extension or let him play out the season and then sign him or let him go. So he either plays well, but with only one season of performance, and you have to sign him to a giant extension (or franchise him D.A. style) or he is terrible and you wasted a draft pick on a guy who never played.
2. Because his value has dropped he is more valuable to the Patriots than the draft pick they would receive in return for him. (If I remember correctly their asking price for Mallett last off-season was a 2nd round pick). There is no way they get a 2nd round pick in return for a player that has done nothing in the NFL and has only one year left on his contract.
3. He is a year older. He will be 26 years old when the 2014 season starts. If we are going with a "veteran" QB then we might as well go with Campbell and/or Hoyer as they have at least played in the NFL.
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Legend
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A 3rd round QB + 2 years to sit on the bench  a first round QB
yebat' Putin
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Like I've said before, our future QB is already in the NFL.
It's a deal that was rumored last year and never happened, that will happen this offseason.
Ryan Mallet.
I'm not sure how I feel about it, but I just have this feeling that is going to happen this offseason.
I can't see it. I think that move would have already been made. As much as Mallet has learned being with BB and sitting behind Brady, I think this organization wants a young mind to bring in and groom. I really feel that we are coming away with a QB in the first round, and will probably keep Hoyer around. I'm not sure what happens with Jason Campbell. I think we will see as the second half unfolds.
I said that I really don't love anyone, but I do really like Bridgewater (I also think we have little chance at him) and Mariota.
I'd be lying if I wasn't intrigued at J. Football. I think that leans closer to me loving the Browns being must see TV either for a giant flame out, or the birth of an NFL superstar.
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A 3rd round QB + 2 years to sit on the bench
a first round QB
Mallett was a third-round QB because of drugs, not because of talent.
This was a draft that saw Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, and Christian Ponder all go in the top 12. Really.
Mallett had produced much better results than those three guys in a "Pro-Style offense" in the SEC (back when such a thing still existed). The only thing that kept him out of the first round was cocaine.
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What is it with Arkansas QB's and cocaine?
First there was Matt Jones then Ryan Mallett.
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Legend
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Have you been to Arkansas?
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JC ...
Out of curiosity, has anyone ever heard of Mallet's desire to be a starting QB in the NFL? Maybe he likes sitting behind Brady and just getting a paycheck.
I ask because I've never heard or read one single thing that he is biding his time or that he wants to start really badly for a team in the NFL. I'm sure that's the first question our guys will be asking (or maybe they know already), but I find it odd that in all the Mallet speculation, this has never been discussed.
First and foremost, the guy has to want it. You never hear that he's unhappy sitting behind Brady or he has that itch or he's very impressive in practices or any of that. At least I haven't.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Legend
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 Never heard what?
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Didn't mean it could never happen, but some on here act as if it's a given that if you take a guy in the middle rounds and let him sit that he will turn into a starter. The odds are much greater that a first round guy comes in and starts right away and turns into an elite QB than it is a later round guy sits for a while and turns into a starter.
Typcially the reason they are 3rd round is because of some limitation in their game.. sometimes those can be overcome, often times they can't.
yebat' Putin
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Jacksonville, Minnesota, Tampa Bay, Arizona, and us will all definitely be in the market for a QB.
I don't think that Tampa Bay will be drafting a QB. They drafted Glennon last year and were willing to release Freeman as a result. I don't think they're on the list of teams looking for a 1st round QB. They're more likely to be on the list to bring in a free agent QB.
I'm not sure that Minnesota is going to give up on Ponder either. He had improved quite a bit from 2011 to 2012. He suffered an injury and the team signed the aforementioned Freeman and regretted it. Sharif Floyd and Cordarrelle Patterson have been 1st round non-factors.
I don't know how high the others teams you listed are prioritizing acquiring a QB in the draft. The only one that would surely put on the list of trying to acquire a 1st round QB is Jacksonville but they could very well be drafting first. I don't think there is one that they would value as the #1 overall selection. I suspect that they are desirous to trade back, whether they're at the #1 overall or if they're drafting a few slots lower. They need a lot more than a QB to make their team appreciably better.
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Then there are the teams that need to see the guy they have for the rest of the season: Houston, Oakland, and Philadelphia. The Rams also have a tough decision to make with Sam Bradford. That is nine teams right there who could potentially draft a QB in first round.
I don't think that Houston is actually going to be drafting one. I don't know if Keenum is their answer or whether Schaub can get over the mental issues that he seems to be having, but I somehow think that Houston will be looking at other parts before they draft a QB in the first round. If things remain as they are, they'll also be drafting quite high.
Oakland isn't going to be drafting a QB. They're another team that needs other positions upgraded. Pryor isn't doing a poor job there. Why would Philly be drafting a QB in the first round? Nick Foles just tied a record with 7 TD passes in a game (had 13 TDs and no INTs for the season) and they drafted Matt Barkley just last year. They aren't going to draft a QB in the first round.
St. Louis is a very real possibility to draft a QB in the first round. They have last of the first round selections they got from the RG3 trade and both would currently be in the Top 10. I don't know how they grade the QBs in this class but if the draft order were set today, the Rams would have the #8 and #10 (Washington's) selections. Coincidentally, the Browns two selections would be #14 and #28 (Indy's).
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Also, as we know teams reach for QBs in the first round (see; Weeden, Brandon and Ponder, Christian). Furthermore, teams are more likely to take risks in the first round because they are no longer bogged down by the enormous rookie contracts.
They might take a flyer on one of the QBs because the rookie contracts aren't as high as they once were, but I don't think they're going to simply 'reach' for a 1st round QB just because...
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While it may seem outlandish to say that there will be six to nine QBs drafted in the first round there are already three guys that are for sure first round picks if they come out of school (Bridgewater, Mariota, and Manziel) and several other guys who can work there way into the first round based on team need and position scarcity (Mettenberger, Hundley, Carr, Boyd, Fales, etc.).
Isn't this what they had to say about the QBs in last year's draft? How many were taken? One. And it wasn't even Geno Smith, who was the consensus #1 QB expected to be taken in the first round.
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My hope is that we do not panic and draft a QB because it is a shiny object (see; Heckert, Tom or Holmgren, Mike), but draft the best player available, within reason, and let our QB come to us.
I just hope that the current regime will do their due diligence and that every player that they draft pans out and is a contributing.
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Campbell leads the Browns to the playoffs and continues his solid play. The question becomes, do you draft a receiver like Evans and maybe safety like Ha Ha and shoot for a superbowl run or do you go ahead and go all in for the QB of the future here?
I mean this is a real question especially with Hoyer and Campbell looking good. As much as I absolutely love watching Johny Football, I would probably fill the remainder of the roster and stand pat with the QB situation at least in the first. trade up from the 3rd and take McCaron. 5 mins later i will probably be leaning the other way. Campbell and Hoyer has made these questions difficult.
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Campbell and Hoyer has made these questions difficult.
That is a good thing, though.
The other factor that most are not considering is just how difficult it is to evaluate all these collegiate qbs. The Spread offense is wonderful in college. I don't blame coaches for running it, but it sure as heck makes it hard to evaluate QBs. We just can't tell if they can read defenses pre-snap and coverages post-snap in those types of offenses. Furthermore, we can almost guarantee that they will take longer to develop.
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The good problem that Hoyer and Campbell has presented them is that they do not have to go all in on a quarterback unless they are 100% confident that said quarterback will be the franchise player they want.
If they are convienced that a certain QB is the player they covet then yes they will go all in to get that player. If there are no players convience them they are the quarterback they want to marry theirselves to. They could sit tight and take 1 in any of the first 3 rounds to develop.
Or Lombardi could pull a Belicheck and take the best player available probably another offensive weapon and then trade down with the other 1st to a 2nd round and pick up another 1st in 2015 to keep the posker chips for QB the next year while the ship is steadied by either Hoyer or Campbell.
There is no doubt this FO wants to find a franchise QB. That is why the Richardson trade was made. They were aggresive and made the move. But seeing now that they have a couple of QB's they could win with will keep them from being desperate. Taking a QB out of desperation is what sealed the fate of the last FO.
This FO seems like they have a plan and being desperate does not fit their personality.
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There is no doubt this FO wants to find a franchise QB. That is why the Richardson trade was made. They were aggresive and made the move. But seeing now that they have a couple of QB's they could win with will keep them from being desperate.
I think we have had our disagreements, but man............that is a very astute comment. Well done. 
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I think that Tampa Bay's QB plans depend upon how Glennon plays the rest of the way out, and if they bring in a new head coach.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Campbell leads the Browns to the playoffs and continues his solid play. The question becomes, do you draft a receiver like Evans and maybe safety like Ha Ha and shoot for a superbowl run or do you go ahead and go all in for the QB of the future here?
I mean this is a real question especially with Hoyer and Campbell looking good. As much as I absolutely love watching Johny Football, I would probably fill the remainder of the roster and stand pat with the QB situation at least in the first. trade up from the 3rd and take McCaron. 5 mins later i will probably be leaning the other way. Campbell and Hoyer has made these questions difficult.
As much as I'd like to believe one of those two is the answer, it is very unlikely one of them is "the one", as this season's sample size is nothing compared to their career, which suggests strongly that they're only backup material. Also, don't underestimate what a larger sample of accessible game film in THIS particular offense does and both never got there yet, Campbell will though in the second half, so we will know more. Hoyer is simply incredibly overrated and I hope we do not go into next season with anything more than considering him a bonus.
I still think a high investment in a QB is necessary after all and if one of the vets is the one, then the rook's value still remains the same as long as he doesn't hit the field, often the value even rises. I dont see the downside, IF we only spend one pick for a QB, multiple one's is another story, but it is way too early to speculate about that.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Legend
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There is no doubt this FO wants to find a franchise QB. That is why the Richardson trade was made. They were aggresive and made the move. But seeing now that they have a couple of QB's they could win with will keep them from being desperate.
I think we have had our disagreements, but man............that is a very astute comment. Well done.
Except for the part "that is why the Richardson trade was made" I agree that they get a great benefit out of that trade and it may make it easier to get the QB they want, but they made that trade because Richardson didn't work out to be the the person everyone (fans and previous regime) thought he'd be.
I believe the FO saw a chance to improve down the road while getting rid of a white elephant..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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... it may make it easier to get the QB they want, but they made that trade because Richardson didn't work out..
IMO, LomBanner made that trade as they saw an opportunity to expand their 2014 draft (I almost typed "daft" ) options while surrendering an average RB who is easily replaced...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Hoyer is simply incredibly overrated and I hope we do not go into next season with anything more than considering him a bonus.
Where is anyone "incredibly overrating" Hoyer - on this board or outside of here? I only remember reading that he was more than just a spark and it's too bad we could not have seen more of him before the draft.
The only person I see on this board who is making a wild speculation about Hoyer and/or his value is you. (...anything more than just a bonus...)
I think that everyone on here knows we need to draft/acquire another QB this offseason. The only real question has been how desperate we behave to do so.
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... it may make it easier to get the QB they want, but they made that trade because Richardson didn't work out..
IMO, LomBanner made that trade as they saw an opportunity to expand their 2014 draft (I almost typed "daft" ) options while surrendering an average RB who is easily replaced...
You realize don't you, that we both said that same damn thing right?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Legend
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The question becomes, do you draft a receiver like Evans and maybe safety like Ha Ha and shoot for a superbowl run or do you go ahead and go all in for the QB of the future here?
I just read a mock that has us taking Sammy Watkins with our first pick and Mettenberger with out second first round pick... Can't say I'd be too upset with that.. though I don't think our first pick is going to be as high as #11.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Quote:
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... it may make it easier to get the QB they want, but they made that trade because Richardson didn't work out..
IMO, LomBanner made that trade as they saw an opportunity to expand their 2014 draft (I almost typed "daft" ) options while surrendering an average RB who is easily replaced...
You realize don't you, that we both said that same damn thing right?
Yes, but we went at it from different perspectives...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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All Pro
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I just read a mock that has us taking Sammy Watkins with our first pick and Mettenberger with out second first round pick the mocks I was looking at had us taking taj with our 2nd number 1 and another mock had us giving both 1's to move up to get taj. 
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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It's still real early, that's what makes speculating fun.
yebat' Putin
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Then why not Watkins and Boyd in the first? Deal?
So far the prospects I'd draft in round one are (in no order)
QB Bridgewater
QB Mariota
WR Evans
WR Watkins
WR Robinson
ILB CJ Mosley
CB Verrett
Haven't seen enough of many others, especially the trenches guys, since they don't represent our biggest need positions, so more to come
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Legend
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Marqise Lee has been injured or Kiffened most of the year, but I would still put him on that list.
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