Yes it is wise to cut taxes to prevent a recession, but foolish to shake consumer, business and world confidence in our economy (especially at this point, when we are just seeing the light of day after the Bush era). While you are in that fantasy bubble, why not wish upon a star for the republicans to look good after this.
I voted Republican for years, but I do not recognize these people as true republicans, more like terrorist. Now if you like the koolaide they are serving run along and get a cup, but don't expect ANYTHING you say or do to sway me in that direction. I'm neither blind nor deaf.
And again I ask how you can justify hurting Vets, the Eldery and Children so recklessly? You ready for Grandma to move in? You alright walking past the soup lines on your way to the look for a new job? These are the things that will happen in a default. And that is the mild outlook.
Quote: Yes it is wise to cut taxes to prevent a recession, but foolish to shake consumer, business and world confidence in our economy (especially at this point, when we are just seeing the light of day after the Bush era). While you are in that fantasy bubble, why not wish upon a star for the republicans to look good after this.
I voted Republican for years, but I do not recognize these people as true republicans, more like terrorist. Now if you like the koolaide they are serving run along and get a cup, but don't expect ANYTHING you say or do to sway me in that direction. I'm neither blind nor deaf.
And again I ask how you can justify hurting Vets, the Eldery and Children so recklessly? You ready for Grandma to move in? You alright walking past the soup lines on your way to the look for a new job? These are the things that will happen in a default. And that is the mild outlook.
I'm not the one living in a bubble. Did you notice by looking at the greatest democrat just how far these parties have fallen? Kennedy was asking for the exact same thing that the Tea Party is now. Lower taxes, control spending, and therefore let the public create new jobs and increase the tax base of the government by having more people working.
I grew up in a military family, and I can tell you right now that anyone who retires out of the military deserves those life long benefits, especially enlisted personnel. I also expect and demand that any veteran gets the medical, mental, or other help they need, like specialized homes for seriously disabled vets.
Social security is a scam, and should be eliminated by phasing it out. If you're over 50, and have paid into SS for years, you should be allowed to choose if you keep it. People like me (I'm almost 50) should be allowed to keep that money and invest it in our own retirement, instead of a bankrupt government. SS was a Ponzi scam invented to care for people who managed to live past 65, when the life expectancy was much lower. My grandfather paid in about $30 a month, and he got back around $1000 a month. In other words, 33.3 people had to die to make his payments by SS economically viable.
The republicans have failed us, and the democrats have failed us. When is the last time you thought your representative actually represented you? Do you believe in any of them anymore? I believe in the Reagan doctrine of 'trust but verify' for any politician. The Tea Party is currently the closest thing to our original founders, who expected us Americans to mostly fend for themselves. Charities and families were supposed to help with those who couldn't. I would have no problem with my grandmother, mother, MIL, or any of them moving in and me having to help them. They helped me all throughout my life, it's time to return the favor.
There is so much waste and abuse of our government systems right now, that we can't trust any of them. You used to vote for republicans; I used to vote against incumbents. The republicans of today are bigger tax and spenders than the democrats of the 60s. We need a different direction, and we all know it. This government will fall if we don't get the 'business as usual' republicrats and democans progressives out of office.
Quote: Safe food is an entirely subjective way to describe what gets thrown at Americans . For instance I would argue that anything that Monsanto touches is not safe .
I would further state that 98% of anything served at any fast food joint is only borderline capable of being referred to as "food".
If it is a processed "food", it is crap.
Remember, the dose makes the poison. Water can be toxic at high enough levels, Oxygen as well. By "safe" I mean something that won't cause immediate (within a few days) organ failure and death.
Quote: Safe food is an entirely subjective way to describe what gets thrown at Americans . For instance I would argue that anything that Monsanto touches is not safe .
I would further state that 98% of anything served at any fast food joint is only borderline capable of being referred to as "food".
If it is a processed "food", it is crap.
Remember, the dose makes the poison. Water can be toxic at high enough levels, Oxygen as well. By "safe" I mean something that won't cause immediate (within a few days) organ failure and death.
I use "safe" in terms of regular continued usage. If I only ever had to eat once, the list of "safe" foods is a whole lot larger.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
Quote: Yes it is wise to cut taxes to prevent a recession, but foolish to shake consumer, business and world confidence in our economy (especially at this point, when we are just seeing the light of day after the Bush era). While you are in that fantasy bubble, why not wish upon a star for the republicans to look good after this.
I voted Republican for years, but I do not recognize these people as true republicans, more like terrorist. Now if you like the koolaide they are serving run along and get a cup, but don't expect ANYTHING you say or do to sway me in that direction. I'm neither blind nor deaf.
And again I ask how you can justify hurting Vets, the Eldery and Children so recklessly? You ready for Grandma to move in? You alright walking past the soup lines on your way to the look for a new job? These are the things that will happen in a default. And that is the mild outlook.
I'm not the one living in a bubble. Did you notice by looking at the greatest democrat just how far these parties have fallen? Kennedy was asking for the exact same thing that the Tea Party is now. Lower taxes, control spending, and therefore let the public create new jobs and increase the tax base of the government by having more people working.
I grew up in a military family, and I can tell you right now that anyone who retires out of the military deserves those life long benefits, especially enlisted personnel. I also expect and demand that any veteran gets the medical, mental, or other help they need, like specialized homes for seriously disabled vets.
Social security is a scam, and should be eliminated by phasing it out. If you're over 50, and have paid into SS for years, you should be allowed to choose if you keep it. People like me (I'm almost 50) should be allowed to keep that money and invest it in our own retirement, instead of a bankrupt government. SS was a Ponzi scam invented to care for people who managed to live past 65, when the life expectancy was much lower. My grandfather paid in about $30 a month, and he got back around $1000 a month. In other words, 33.3 people had to die to make his payments by SS economically viable.
The republicans have failed us, and the democrats have failed us. When is the last time you thought your representative actually represented you? Do you believe in any of them anymore? I believe in the Reagan doctrine of 'trust but verify' for any politician. The Tea Party is currently the closest thing to our original founders, who expected us Americans to mostly fend for themselves. Charities and families were supposed to help with those who couldn't. I would have no problem with my grandmother, mother, MIL, or any of them moving in and me having to help them. They helped me all throughout my life, it's time to return the favor.
There is so much waste and abuse of our government systems right now, that we can't trust any of them. You used to vote for republicans; I used to vote against incumbents. The republicans of today are bigger tax and spenders than the democrats of the 60s. We need a different direction, and we all know it. This government will fall if we don't get the 'business as usual' republicrats and democans progressives out of office.
Well i see we are a lot more alike then you think. I agree with many of your talking points just none of the ones pertaining to the tea party. And just for the record I don't hold JFK in the best Democrat ever column. I think his story was a great american tragedy, I think he stood toe to toe with the soviets and backed them down and I also credit him for Nasa's earlier missions. The greatest... not so much. I also don't give Reagan the greatest nod.
I think the Tea Party started out with noble ideas (although I did not and do not agree with them) but they have morphed into an extremist anti-government faction of the Republican Party that brings absolutely nothing to the table but ill will. Rednecks, racists and idiots abound in the tea party.
Quote: You're in DC, right? Explains a great deal.
I live in Raleigh, NC. I haven't lived in DC for 8 years.. though I am extremely curious what that explains.
Alright. I thought you had been in DC much earlier than that... but even so, you're login name points to your DC connection. Honestly, it says a great deal about your viewpoint about government, specifically the federal government.
My brother-in-law is a furloughed federal employee. My sister is all crazy about this government shutdown and how it impacts them directly.
Not surprisingly, we have a differing view on it. From your earlier post, I could have imagined by sister writing exactly the type of commentary that you did.
Just out of curiosity, how close are you to the federal government and the shutdown?
just clicking.... If you have a 401k and there are options for investing, you might want to spend a little time and see if you have an option to move to a safe haven. I moved to 100% cash about 3-4 weeks ago. It does not look like either side is going to blink and this does not have to go past the Oct 17 default timeframe to start wreaking havoc on our 401k's. I lost 34.59% in 08 by just letting it ride and I swore that it would not happen again.
I can't change the fact that Washington has to act like children so I have to try to protect myself.
Quote: I voted Republican for years, but I do not recognize these people as true republicans, more like terrorist. Now if you like the koolaide they are serving run along and get a cup, but don't expect ANYTHING you say or do to sway me in that direction. I'm neither blind nor deaf.
I quit the republican party also. But I'm not going to drink the kool aid and support the moronic tyrant and his cronies that are in office now just because I'm upset with the republicans. Don't expect ANYTHING you say or do to sway me in that direction. I'm neither blind nor deaf.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama and House Speaker John Boehner offered hints of possible compromise but also traded heated rhetoric Tuesday, a frustratingly inconclusive combination that left the eight-day partial government shutdown firmly in place and the threat of an unprecedented national default drawing closer.
"There's a crack there," Boehner said of the impasse near the end of a day of maneuvering at the White House and the Capitol. Yet the Ohio Republican added that it was not enough to warrant optimism.
Stocks fell significantly — the Dow Jones average by 159 points — as political gridlock endured. And, in the latest in a string of dire warnings, the International Monetary Fund said failure to raise America's debt limit could lead to default and disrupt worldwide financial markets, raise interest rates and push the U.S economy back into recession.
Republicans "don't get to demand ransom in exchange for doing their jobs," Obama said at the White House. "They don't also get to say, you know, unless you give me what the voters rejected in the last election, I'm going to cause a recession."
Even the deaths of U.S. servicemen over the weekend in Afghanistan were grist for the politicians. The Pentagon said that because of the partial shutdown it was unable to pay the customary death benefits to the survivors. View gallery." President Barack Obama speaks about the government … President Barack Obama speaks about the government shutdown and debt limit, Tuesday, Oct. 8, 2013, i …
Boehner said Congress had passed and Obama signed legislation last week permitting the payments, adding it was "disgraceful" for the administration to interpret the measure otherwise. He said the House would clarify the issue with a new bill on Wednesday.
In Congress, a plan by Senate Democrats to raise the debt limit by $1 trillion to stave off a possible default drew little evidence of support from Republicans.
And a proposal by Republicans to create a working group of 20 lawmakers to tackle deficit issues, approved 224-197 by the House, drew a veto threat from the White House, the latest in a string of them as the administration insists the GOP reopen the government and avert default before any negotiations on deficit reduction or the three-year-old health care law can take place.
On a day in which both Obama and Boehner appeared on live television, both men appeared to be giving ground yet yielding little if anything of substance.
At midmorning, Boehner and other Republicans seemed to soften their demands. View gallery." Rick Hohensee of Washington holds a "Fire Congress" … Rick Hohensee of Washington holds a "Fire Congress" sign near the House steps on Capitol Hill in Was …
"I suspect we can work out a mechanism to raise the debt ceiling while a negotiation is underway," said Rep. Tom Cole, an Oklahoma Republican who is close to Boehner.
The speaker, who had previously insisted on specific changes in the health care law as the price for preventing the shutdown, told reporters, "I want to have a conversation (with Obama and Democrats.) I'm not drawing any lines in the sand. It's time for us to just sit down and resolve our differences."
Asked if he was willing to raise the debt ceiling and fund the government for a short period, the Ohio Republican sidestepped. "I'm not going to get into a whole lot of speculation," he said.
A few hours later, Obama told a news conference he was willing to negotiate with Republicans on budget and other issues if Congress passed even short-term legislation to end the crisis.
"I'll even spring for dinner again," he said, referring to his courtship of Republican senators last winter, and attempting to inject humor into a political impasse where invective has been the norm. View gallery." President Barack Obama pauses while speaking about … President Barack Obama pauses while speaking about the the budget and the partial government shutdow …
Ninety minutes later, Boehner was unsmiling.
"What the president said today was if there's unconditional surrender by Republicans, he'll sit down and talk," he said. Renewing his call for "a conversation" about key issues facing the country, the Ohio Republican said, "Not next week. Not next month. The conversation ought to start today."
Boehner added, "The long and short of it is, there is going to be a negotiation here. We can't raise the debt ceiling without doing something about what's driving us to borrow more money and to live beyond our means."
Privately, officials said deeply suspicious Republicans were attempting to gauge Obama's comments to see whether they might represent a concession.
Treasury Secretary Jacob Lew has said the deadline for Congress to act is Oct., 17, setting that as the day the government will exhaust its ability to borrow funds and will have to rely day-to-day on tax and other receipts to pay its bills. View gallery." Rep. Louie Gohmert, R-Texas, escorts a group of constituents … Rep. Louie Gohmert, R-Texas, escorts a group of constituents through the Capitol Rotunda during a lu …
Some Republicans have downplayed the significance of the Oct. 17 deadline, saying that even then, the United States would be able to pay China and other holders of U.S. debt and avoid widespread economic dislocation.
But Obama said they were badly misguided, warning that default would harm the economy, cause retirement accounts to shrivel and houses to lose value. Still other Republicans have made it clear in recent days they agree with the threat posed by default and are determined to prevent it.
Inside a closed-door meeting of the Republican rank and file, Boehner had told his fellow Republicans they were in the midst of a tough battle and that Obama and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid were trying to "annihilate us," according to one official in attendance.
Boehner's tone was different when he spoke to reporters.
"There's no boundaries here. There's nothing on the table. There's nothing off the table. I'm trying to do everything I can to bring people together and to have a conversation," he said. View gallery." House Speaker John Boehner of Ohio, followed by Rep. … House Speaker John Boehner of Ohio, followed by Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers, R-Wash., and House Majo …
In the back-and-forth, the threat of a default overshadowed the continuing partial government shutdown. An estimated 450,000 federal workers are idled at agencies responsible for items as diverse as food inspection and national parks, although all employees are eventually expected to receive full back pay.
The House approved legislation during the day to pay for a resumption of Head Start, the pre-school program for disadvantaged children. The vote was 248-168. The bill was the latest in a string of measures to end the shutdown in one corner of government or another in hopes of forcing Democrats to abandon their own demands for a full reopening of the federal establishment.
The House also voted 420-0 to make sure federal workers on the job don't miss their next regularly scheduled paycheck on Oct. 15.
The shutdown began more than a week ago after Obama and Senate Democrats rejected Republican demands to defund "Obamacare," then to delay it, and finally to force a one-year delay in the requirement for individuals to purchase health care coverage or face a financial penalty.
It was not a course Boehner and the leadership had recommended — preferring a less confrontational approach and hoping to defer a showdown for the debt limit. Their hand was forced by a strategy advanced by Texas Sen. Ted Cruz and tea party-aligned House members determined to eradicate the health care law before it fully took root. View gallery." Speaker of the House John Boehner, R-Ohio, makes a … Speaker of the House John Boehner, R-Ohio, makes a statement outside his office to respond to Presid …
That portion of the strategy was doomed to failure, since money for the health care program was never cut off.
With the government partially shut down, Boehner and the GOP leadership decided to allow the closure showdown to merge with one over the debt limit.
___
Associated Press writers Donna Cassata, Andrew Taylor, Alan Fram, Martin Crutsinger, Julie Pace and Charles Babington contributed to this report.
Quote: I think the Tea Party started out with noble ideas (although I did not and do not agree with them) but they have morphed into an extremist anti-government faction of the Republican Party that brings absolutely nothing to the table but ill will. Rednecks, racists and idiots abound in the tea party.
I think you've been corrupted by the mass media. Yes the Tea Party started with noble ideas, and they still have them. At the core is smaller government, less waste, lower taxes. The crap about 'rednecks, racists, and idiots' is a bunch of bull pushed by the media. BTW, isn't calling people 'redneck' a racist statement? The democrat party was the remainder of the southerners from the War of Northern Agression (yes, I've lived in the south most of my life). The republican party got Lincoln elected, which in my opinion is the largest abuser of the Constitution until obama came into office.
Every party has 'rednecks, racists, and idiots'. The Tea Party has no more than anyone else. Besides, is it more racist to give a minority special priviledges or not? I expect people to make it on their own, no matter their color, or ethnicity. One of my mentors when I started my career was a SE DC born and bred n-word kind of guy. He spoke ghetto and usually had a bad attitude, but the guy was a fabulous engineer, and I couldn't have asked for a better teacher. We still use each other as references to this day, and he was a Tea Party type of person. You should visit a Tea Party ralley in person before you pass judgement on all of them.
And oddly enough, that was how he described himself to me. I can't post his exact words on this site. I couldn't care less about his race, and he couldn't have cared less about mine. We used to joke each other all the time. You should have heard the friendly abuse that passed between the spanish speakers and non-spanish speakers. It was a great place to work, because no one worried about the PC crap that goes on today. No race baiting whiners anywhere.
Quote: The republican party got Lincoln elected, which in my opinion is the largest abuser of the Constitution until obama came into office.
If that's your comparison you already lost. Lincoln is considered to be one of the greatest Presidents the United States has ever had. One of our national treasures is a memorial depiction of him. Do you really want to put Obama and Lincoln in the same breath?
The more I see the more the republican party scares me. Homophobia/restriction of civil rights, pretending science is a religion that you can choose to believe in or not, and now political terrorism (if Boehner put up a vote you, I, and everyone else knows it would pass). I am/was a true independent, but as I get older the Republicans keep pushing me left. It seems like the republicans are not progressing.
I understand both sides are at fault, but the their respective fault is not equal. They can't win through the normal democratic methods, you know like voting, so they used their last tactic, shutting down the government. I wouldn't be surprised if the republicans lose the house because of this. I will say if this works and the president caves you can bet your house the democrats will use the tactic whenever it becomes available unless the republicans get destroyed in next election.
I think we need to put term limits for senate/house, campaign finance reform, put an end to gerrymandering, and if the government shutdowns there has to be a penalty to the people who allowed it happen (maybe no re-election..something).
We are now borrowing between one-third and one-half of our spending, each year.
This must end.
It cannot continue indefinitely.
The politicians have been unable to do so. The "sequester" agreed on during the last debt limit crisis, was an approximate 10% across-the-board cut. This was achieved only under extreme duress. It barely scratches the surface of the problem.
We need to cut three times that amount.
This problem trumps EVERYTHING else. It will lead to our complete and total destruction as a nation and as a society.
It is getting worse every single second of every single minute of every single hour, each day, week, and month.
This constant "We can't cut THIS, We can't cut THAT" is the problem. More and more spending is the result.
I am truly curious, to EVERYONE, just exactly WTF do you expect to eventually happen with the constantly increasing debt? What mechanism do you see in place that will somehow prevent eventual bankruptcy? Do you really think this can go on forever? If so, HOW, and if not, what will prevent it?
If the only available solution is to let it burn, then let it burn.
Quote: If that's your comparison you already lost. Lincoln is considered to be one of the greatest Presidents the United States has ever had. One of our national treasures is a memorial depiction of him. Do you really want to put Obama and Lincoln in the same breath?
The southern states had a right to suceed. The emancipation proclomation was an edict passed by a president, not a law passed by congress and approved by the president. Obama has made changes to a law without the consent or consulation of congress, and his administration chooses which laws they will uphold, like immigration. That is not how our government is supposed to run.
In the end, Lincoln was most likely right to force the southern states back into the union (kind of like draft picks, it takes a long time to see if it was worth it), and I have always believed that slavery was wrong for this country. The government fell apart because of extreme polarization. He became an imperial president due to the polarization.
The government is also polarized now, but now it's because we have an imperial president. We have yet to see what the fallout will be this time.
I was exempted, but I can't even count the number of people I witnessed freaking out not knowing if/when they were going to get a paycheck. Some people in other branches (not DoD related) are considered "essential" and have to work, but they won't receive payment for the work until this whole thing is over. Sucks for those people who are living paycheck to paycheck.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
Further, we pay, at this point and getting worse every year, and with interest rates pushed about as low as they can go, almost half a trillion dollars in debt interest. Yep, just the interest on our debt is almost half a trillion dollars. We add to this each and every year.
Imagine if interest rates ever started to increase. Of course, our monetary policy is to hold rates as low as possible for as long as possible, and the damage to the middle class be damned.
People say that this doesn't hurt anyone, but this situation really does hurt the middle class because no longer can a person save money to fund their retirement. The only way to earn a decent return on your money (available to most people) is through investments and investment vehicles. A person can't save their money, and have it appreciate in value at a substantial rate by virtue of compounding interest. When there is almost no interest paid, compounding that nothing is still nothing. Well, it is a very small amount, but not much. We wonder where the Middle Class is going? People can't save their way to prosperity later in life. There was a time where people got a pension from work, and also saved their money in very safe bank accounts that paid a reasonable rate of return. Now the banks pay almost nothing.
People can invest in the markets, but when a situation like the crash occurs, it is largely the middle class that takes the brunt of the damage. Those with money can afford to take risks and buy stocks that have lost significant value, waiting for them to return to their previous levels. Those in the middle, whose retirement is tied to the stocks and funds they buy, cannot afford to take that risk. The middle class takes the hit, and those with excessive money to invest can afford to buy up the bones. People wonder why the rich get richer. This is a huge reason why.
Man, I just don't see any way to rebuild a broader middle class when people get no value from saved money. The deflated interest rates keep the debt down as much as possible .... but we need to start cutting into that debt so that we can raise rates and allow the dollar to regain some of its value. .I'm no economist, but it seems like both parties have put the middle class on the road to ruin, and neither one seems all that interested in turning it around. The way to help the middle class is not more and more government programs and government spending ..... it is allowing the middle class a way to invest in their own futures that allow them to gain a reasonable return without massive risk, and without the government artificially holding rates on savings and borrowing down.
I guess my point, in simplest terms, is this: Current monetary policy with artificially suppressed interest rates has hurt the middle class in the following ways:
Saved money does not gain any appreciable rate of return through interest earned and compounded interest. Further, when the government pumps put dollars out of thin air it further depreciates a person's savings. If a dollar loses 2% of its value over the course of a year due to the government;s monetary policies, and the person gains 1% in interest on their savings, what have they really gained?
People are forced into riskier investments to get any kind of return for their retirements, and without significant cash reserves to ride out the dips in the markets, the brunt of those dips are felt by the middle class as they try to protect their retirements.
Big ticket items are allowed to inflate in price, because the same monthly payment buys higher prices when rates are held down.
I just look at the problems this country has, and it seems to me that monetary policy has really contributed to many of them. The decline of the middle class can be traced, in large part, to this as well .... and probably as much as the loss of certain jobs and industries have.
Like I said ... I'm no economist ... but I bet that this is probably accurate. Both parties have contributed to this mess, and as long as we have this massive debt hanging over our heads, we really can't afford to straighten it out. I truly worry about where we are heading.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: Just out of curiosity, how close are you to the federal government and the shutdown?
I will answer your second question after you answer my first...
Quote: but even so, you're login name points to your DC connection. Honestly, it says a great deal about your viewpoint about government, specifically the federal government.
What exactly is are you able to understand about my point of view based on the fact that I lived in DC?
Quote: Just out of curiosity, how close are you to the federal government and the shutdown?
I will answer your second question after you answer my first...
Quote: but even so, you're login name points to your DC connection. Honestly, it says a great deal about your viewpoint about government, specifically the federal government.
What exactly is are you able to understand about my point of view based on the fact that I lived in DC?
Well it's obvious to all of us your a liberal conservative commie bureaucrat socialist democratic activist.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
Quote: Safe food is an entirely subjective way to describe what gets thrown at Americans . For instance I would argue that anything that Monsanto touches is not safe .
I would further state that 98% of anything served at any fast food joint is only borderline capable of being referred to as "food".
If it is a processed "food", it is crap.
Remember, the dose makes the poison. Water can be toxic at high enough levels, Oxygen as well. By "safe" I mean something that won't cause immediate (within a few days) organ failure and death.
I use "safe" in terms of regular continued usage. If I only ever had to eat once, the list of "safe" foods is a whole lot larger.
Which is why it's ok to call a burger from McDonald's food As soon as you get something like E.coli in it though, it becomes not safe since it effects a large majority of a community's immediate health. Not saying it's perfect or even good, I for one would love for a renovation and expansion of the FDA so that they can check much more of the imports coming into this country from other sources as well as keep better track of regulated medicines and maybe even bring supplemental drugs under their purview so that we can get a better idea what the heck these companies put in them.
Quote: Just out of curiosity, how close are you to the federal government and the shutdown?
I will answer your second question after you answer my first...
Quote: but even so, you're login name points to your DC connection. Honestly, it says a great deal about your viewpoint about government, specifically the federal government.
What exactly is are you able to understand about my point of view based on the fact that I lived in DC?
That your connections are a little too close to the hellmouth.
I still have no idea what "connections" you are talking about. All I said was that initially I really liked the Tea Party but feel that it has been co-opted by a group with a much more extreme agenda...
Similar to many other groups/causes in the past like:
To be clear, I don't blame the shut down on the Tea Party, I don't even really care about the shut down.. I'm just not enamored with the folks speaking on behalf of the Tea Party any more...
As far as the tea parties, I think it's wrong to clump them together as a single entity. They speak with a common voice, broadly speaking, in regards to government spending. That was really the impetus for the creation of the movement.
What are you considering 'extreme' about the tea parties?
I know that there are folks that pretend to speak for the movement or try to tie themselves to it, but who don't actually hold any convictions at all.
Of course, there are those within the upper echelons of the federal government that berate and mischaracterize what the tea parties are about and try to attach every political opponent as an enemy and label them as 'tea party'.
There are members within the government structure (particularly within the House and Senate) that enjoy strong support from members of the tea parties, but they aren't leaders of the movement.
Anyone that you hear or reads that indicates that they speak for the tea party movement are lying to you. No single person speaks for the tea parties. The only commonality that you'll find among the tea party movement is that it supports less government and wants to cut the amount of money that it spends.
If we cannot speak about or discuss openly what our government spends our money on or drives the nation into debt for - then what should we even care about anything? If we can't discuss it and ask questions about whether our government should really be spending money on something, then there is nothing left to discuss except the level of enslavement we desire.
That is the ONLY thing that the tea parties wanted. It is all that they EVER wanted. According to some, to ask for that national discourse has seemingly become synonymous with terrorism, anarchy, and economic collapse.
Quote: If that's your comparison you already lost. Lincoln is considered to be one of the greatest Presidents the United States has ever had. One of our national treasures is a memorial depiction of him. Do you really want to put Obama and Lincoln in the same breath?
The southern states had a right to suceed. The emancipation proclomation was an edict passed by a president, not a law passed by congress and approved by the president. Obama has made changes to a law without the consent or consulation of congress, and his administration chooses which laws they will uphold, like immigration. That is not how our government is supposed to run.
In the end, Lincoln was most likely right to force the southern states back into the union (kind of like draft picks, it takes a long time to see if it was worth it), and I have always believed that slavery was wrong for this country. The government fell apart because of extreme polarization. He became an imperial president due to the polarization.
The government is also polarized now, but now it's because we have an imperial president. We have yet to see what the fallout will be this time.
Now what exactly did I lose with my statement?
ugh... where do I begin... First the south had succeeded long before the emancipation proclamation was ever drafted... so much for that.. it was a preemptive move by the southern States after the election before Lincoln took office... so let's not invent a scenario that did not exist. 7 states were gone by the time Liincoln took office on March 4, 1861. The emancipation proclamation was Jan 1, 1863, well into the war.
I have a different take on this whole issue. It has a proven time in time again. We will always have polarization. We as a country are challenged by the thought that the federal government can make laws that some people or some States just don't like. We have the whole nullification crowd out their that screams when laws are passed, and some do not like the fact that the law was passed. The last time the nullification crowd was active was the 1950's and 1960's with the civil rights issues of the day. Nullification is a bogus concept that has been rejected time and time again.
We don't have any mechanism by which a State can leave the USA. Think about it before stating that any State has the right to succeed.
The solution is not in nullification or any other strategy, including what is happening today, it is called repeal. We can make laws, and we can repeal laws. We can even do that with constitutional amendments (see prohibition). But it takes a majority to change a law, so the house can vote 41 times to repeal a law, it is going nowhere as long as the Senate is Democratic and Obama is president.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!…. That did not age well.
Just saw on the Today program that well prior to the shutdown, the DoD warned that one of the things that would be cut was death benefits for military killed in action.
Tell me something, why are our elected officials so outraged over it? They knew, they were told and now they are surprised?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: ugh... where do I begin... First the south had succeeded long before the emancipation proclamation was ever drafted... so much for that.. it was a preemptive move by the southern States after the election before Lincoln took office... so let's not invent a scenario that did not exist. 7 states were gone by the time Liincoln took office on March 4, 1861. The emancipation proclamation was Jan 1, 1863, well into the war.
Um.... Duh!!! Did I ever once say that the EP was put in place before the southern states suceeded? I was making a comparison of imperialistic presidents, not putting up a timeline of events. Reading is fundamental, but for some people, it's just mental. Talk about inventing a scenario.
Quote: As far as the tea parties, I think it's wrong to clump them together as a single entity.
Me too, unfortunately, that's how they are characterized.
Quote: I know that there are folks that pretend to speak for the movement or try to tie themselves to it, but who don't actually hold any convictions at all.
Like it or not, they are the public face of the movement. Like I said previously, I liked the Tea Party when it had no real voice except the man on the street... then politicians started adopting the title... and that's when things went south.
I'm pretty sure that if you and I sat down over a beer and went issue by issue down the list, we would agree far more often than we would disagree... in the end, we are really just debating the public perception of the accepted use of the term "Tea Party"...
Quote: As far as the tea parties, I think it's wrong to clump them together as a single entity.
Me too, unfortunately, that's how they are characterized.
What's that say about the real intellect (or the intellectual honesty) of the American people? I have no misconceptions about where this country is headed. It won't be a pretty sight to watch when it does happen.
From my viewpoint, it appears that the vast majority of Americans and nearly ALL American politicians at the federal level don't believe that what happened in Greece and Cyprus can happen here.
Quote:
Quote: I know that there are folks that pretend to speak for the movement or try to tie themselves to it, but who don't actually hold any convictions at all.
Like it or not, they are the public face of the movement. Like I said previously, I liked the Tea Party when it had no real voice except the man on the street... then politicians started adopting the title... and that's when things went south.
They aren't any face of the movement. They've been appointed by the media or themselves to be. However, they're not the face. If anything they're masks.
There are a few politicians that are actual members of tea parties, but they aren't the ones proclaiming to be the faces of the movement. They are the focus of those that want to vilify them and the tea parties. Their boogeyman is the tea parties and so they have to make a villain out of someone because they have to have face to put on their boogeyman.
Quote: I'm pretty sure that if you and I sat down over a beer and went issue by issue down the list, we would agree far more often than we would disagree... in the end, we are really just debating the public perception of the accepted use of the term "Tea Party"...
Maybe. I couldn't say. It might almost sound like a rehashing of the Constitutional Convention more than anything.
Quote: Tell me that when melamine gets slipped into your milk and you get get sick from it due to the FDA getting shut down.
They did so well the last time.
When was the last time this occurred on the FDA's watch?
2007. The FDA inspects pet foods too. Supposedly. They failed miserably on that one.
Ah, yeah, I'd forgotten about that. Although how you can blame them for it occurring is beyond me. The reason for this is two-fold. First, the tainted products originated in China, not the USA. Yes, it falls to the FDA to check on the safety of imported products, but they are so short staffed that they only end up inspecting ~2% of the overall imports into the country. So if you want 100% inspection rates, we'll need to either stop importing food, or beef up the FDA. This is a very small sample size and cannot possibly accurately represent what is coming into the country on a daily basis. More often than not we accept imports based on the country-of-origin's food inspection body. Therefore, in places of corruption or lax regulation, mishaps like this occur. Just be glad we had a group of people in place to track this down and get it off the shelves before more animals could get hurt. It took them three weeks to track down the multiple sources of contamination, where those sources went, and who was distributing those sources. This isn't exactly something that there's ready-made computer programs for that can help analyze epidemiological data like this as it's happening to make quick, correct, decisions. I say they did a pretty good job overall.
Second, while preemptive screening is useful for catching things that may hurt people, some things will always get through. It's not a perfect system. Even if we were to inspect 100% of the incoming food stuff we would probably still have a few incidents over a long period of time. The goal is to reach a point of diminishing returns such that the likelihood of food-born illness is at its most minimal, while maintaining the least number of employees to check cargo.
That being said, with the majority of FDA workers furloughed, what do you think happens to all the imports that are inspected and usually turned away by the FDA? They're now in our food supply. No one is there to stop their import, therefore we're just going to take everything in.
Quote: What's that say about the real intellect (or the intellectual honesty) of the American people?
I have never been accused of underestimating the lack of intellect among the American citizens when it comes to politics.
Quote: From my viewpoint, it appears that the vast majority of Americans and nearly ALL American politicians at the federal level don't believe that what happened in Greece and Cyprus can happen here.
Of course they don't.. and anybody who proclaims that it could is labeled a tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist... and getting to say "I told you so" is going to be a very hollow victory some day.
Quote: They've been appointed by the media or themselves to be.
Which is kind of my point.
Quote: It might almost sound like a rehashing of the Constitutional Convention more than anything.
It might.. when we are done, think we can force a vote on it in Congress?
Quote: Who says the folks in congress aren't suffering through the shutdown.. this congressman has to live without towel service at the house gym.
LOL $260 and this damn fool is complaining about a towel service not being available to him..... I wish I could get an Gym Membership for $260 a year.
I don't know who this guy is, I don't know if he's a D or and R or an I. And I don't care because it simply doesn't matter. This kinda thinking is what's killing us.
I recognize that this is being take a little out of context. But I do think it's generally what the problem is with our leaders.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
okay, I'm just saying this because it's bugging me.
The South seceded. If they had succeeded, then we'd be having an entirely different discussion now.
Sorry. I had no idea the secret spelling police were on site. If they had succeeded, at least all the democrats would be in the south right now. I'd damn sure move north.
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As soon as you get something like E.coli in it though, it becomes not safe since it effects a large majority of a community's immediate health. Not saying it's perfect or even good, I for one would love for a renovation and expansion of the FDA so that they can check much more of the imports coming into this country from other sources as well as keep better track of regulated medicines and maybe even bring supplemental drugs under their purview so that we can get a better idea what the heck these companies put in them.
