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I was good with the Banner appointment by Haslam. Not so much about the Lombardi choice though.
My question is: Should this organization continue to win and have success. Who deserves the credit? Banner, Lombardi or Chud (a combination of all of them)? And if Banner is responsible for the selection of talent, what role does Lombardi have? A hand puppet for Banner?
Just a question.
And the next head coach is ......
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IF we are successful?
I'd give the credit to Banner honestly.
I also wouldn't forget Chud/Horton
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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So what is Lombardi's role? It appears that it's always Banner and Chud in the press who make the announcements. Does Lombardi just do talent evaluations? Make suggestions?
And the next head coach is ......
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Who deserves the credit
they all do. it's a team effort that is finally showing results.
and I don't think for one minute that Banner is responsible for the selection of talent. that is Lombardi. i think he works with the coach to address his needs. I just don't believe Lombardi is the bumbleing fool most here make him out to be.
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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I really could care less WHO calls the shot. They said it's a consensus, so all get the praise and criticism for what they do. They're in this together for good or bad.
So far they've done a good job overall, especially with the hiring of the coaching staff and keeping Heckert's core together for the most part. Some of their shrewd moves and odd (and risky) decisions have paid off. Their true test will come next offseason though, when its time collect the value in the draft and of the remaining cap pool.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Quote:
Who deserves the credit
they all do. it's a team effort that is finally showing results.
and I don't think for one minute that Banner is responsible for the selection of talent. that is Lombardi. i think he works with the coach to address his needs. I just don't believe Lombardi is the bumbleing fool most here make him out to be.
I actually think that Lombardi is a very smart man ..... but like very smart men, he sometimes manages to outsmart himself. Thus he needs someone to help rein him in somewhat. Banner is able to do that.
I do think that the process for adding and/or trading players involves everyone from the head coach and coordinators, to Lombardi and Farmer, to Banner all contribute to the process. They strive for consensus, but I would guess that the coaching staff is more heavily weighted as far as pro players are concerned .... especially if the player in question has played for one of our coaches in the past. They strive for 100% consensus, but if there is a difference of opinion, and the coaches really want a particular player, then they will try to get that player. (especially if it's a player that doesn't cost a lot in terms of trade cost and/or salary)
I think that once a player is on the roster, it is up to the coaches as to whether or not the guy stays. There may be a particular player that Lombardi and/or Banner may feel very strongly about, and who the coaches may accept because of that, but I bet that the coaches make those decisions largely without ant dispute from Lombardi, Farmer, and/or Banner.
The draft process will probably swing back more towards Lombardi and his staff making decisions. The head coach and coordinators may help with decisions about the top draft picks ..... but probably have less influence as they move down into the lower rounds.The scouts, and Lombardi, have far more information about those lower round guys, so their influence is probably more strongly felt there. Maybe the head coach or one of the coordinators knows of a guy through his college connections and feels very strongly about him ..... but for the most part, the coaches aren't able to go do a ton of college scouting. They aren't going to be able to tell whether player A from South Florida or player B from Temple are the better player and/or fit for the team. Maybe Lombardi shows Chud tape on 2 guys and asks him to help prioritize ..... but I don't see a huge amount of coach influence in later rounds, 4-7 especially.
In short, decisions are made as a consensus, but that consensus is weighted according to what area is in operation at the time. Some decisions, like trading away a starter, require far more coaching staff input and approval. Others, like who we are taking in round 5, require more input from the coaching staff and Lombardi. Overall we want consensus, but the process is weighted differently for different parts of the overall year/process.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Their true test will come next offseason though, when its time collect the value in the draft and of the remaining cap pool.
No doubt.
And the next head coach is ......
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I personally -- and I think anybody here -- would be completely shocked if we ended up trading him. Josh is playing great. He's working his butt off."
That's the exact right attitude to have... never rule out the possibility that somebody may come up with a deal that you absolutely can't refuse...
yebat' Putin
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I actually agree w/this post almost entirely.
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I actually agree w/this post almost entirely.
In other news ..... a cold spell on the way for Hell ......? 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I know. Right? 
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Quote:
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I actually agree w/this post almost entirely.
In other news ..... a cold spell on the way for Hell ......?
I think someone hijacked his account
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Django: Quote:
I really could care less WHO calls the shot. They said it's a consensus, so all get the praise and criticism for what they do. They're in this together for good or bad.
So far they've done a good job overall, especially with the hiring of the coaching staff and keeping Heckert's core together for the most part. Some of their shrewd moves and odd (and risky) decisions have paid off. Their true test will come next offseason though, when its time collect the value in the draft and of the remaining cap pool.
Vers:
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I actually agree w/this post almost entirely.
Clem:
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Good Lord!
The sun's gonna come up in the West tomorrow!
Just kidding, guys... you know how fond I am of you both....
edit: That's what I get for posting without reading further down the thread. Nice work, YTown! 
Last edited by Clemdawg; 10/11/13 10:53 PM.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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Some of their shrewd moves and odd (and risky) decisions have paid off.
Which "odd and risky" moves are you referring to?
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Some of their shrewd moves and odd (and risky) decisions have paid off.
Which "odd and risky" moves are you referring to?
1. trading TRich when they did. The return was pure value, but the timing was odd after only two games and risky in terms of message sent. Replacing him with a rusty stop gap FA on top of it.
2. Playing Hoyer over Campbell. That again was risky considering their track records and another odd message sent combined with the timing (TRich trade). Unlike most I think we won the Minny game thanks to Gordon, Cameron and coaching guts. We lose this game (and we were close to) and we'd be 1-4 or even 0-5 now and their odd and risk decisions dont look too good. The decisions turned out to be good no matter the outcome, but they got some luck too to help out on the perception part of it, but you can't win it if you aren't in it. Their aggressiveness paid off, but it was a fine line.
3. Starting some young unknowns ( potential) from Heckert who were backups last season: Cameron, Skrine, Gipson, Robertson. The two DBs didn't look good at first but are rapidly improving, esp Skrine. Otoh, Obi at FB was a shrewd move that has failed thus far, so has trusting Cousins as the 4th Gs, who was the worst player on the field in the first two weeks. Minor knock on them drafting and keeping Gilkey, but not playing/trusting him as the 4th G.
4. Speaking of: Draft day trades. I was skeptical of the Steelers trade and liked the Colts one better, now it looks like it's the other way around. The Steelers pick could be a top75 selection with great value win and the Colts pick seems like a value wash. Of course those moves have not paid off yet, but they've put themselves in a better position to succeed.
5. Switching Ds (I know you were waiting for this,lol): many, me included, thought this was not necessary, but it has paid off quickly, though I think this has mostly to do with Horton than scheme and no talent we had went to waste (maybe JMJ, but non of the higher picks like DQ, Taylor and Sheard where there were some legit doubts in terms of fitting).
We had a pretty solid D core already last season with an above AVG pass rush and well defined needs. I think if we'd have given Jauron 2 high priced FAs at those needs and a 6th overall to his front 7 along with the natural progression of what was already in place (Taylor, Hughes, Robertson, Skrine etc) that we would seen a positive difference too.
So to summarize: the conversion has paid off, but I'm honestly reluctant to give them much props for it considering their heavy investments in it and the core already in place. 5or6 in this front 7 are among the top 10 earners on this roster, so it better BE a strength.
#gmstrong
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I love the aggression attacking style Horton has brought, I do feel that Jauron would have had this D back up into the top 5 ranking with a healthy big Phil and a much needed pass rusher opposite Sheard.
With that said, this D is a hell of a lot more fun to watch and I think player attitude has never been higher. Everyone plays on defense. Do you know how excited these guys are when they are on the sideline watching the 3rd string guy in there making a play? That entire defense is up cheering for one another. That is the Horton difference.
Staff has just been tremendous all the way around. Chud and Norv have turned Mr. Wimply aka Jordon Cameron into an offensive juggernaut lol. The OL issues caught them off guard and that first game was a nightmare. They rebounded and I listen to Gordon and he sounds like a veteran presence on this team!!! Him going to Weeden and saying trust us to make the play for you, is incredible.
Then you have special teams and the coach many thought should be fired when he took over even after we cut 30 special teamers from the roster now has this as the #1 special teams unit in football. The punter that couldnt punt and had been cut by everyone is now top 5. Benji has made people forget Cribbs.
It is a great job by this staff but it is also part of the growth and maturity process. We had so many young players and we were a rookie mistake away from winning a lot of games and now we arent making those rookie mistakes and we are starting to win some games.
The added front 7 depth and talent was questioned by most everyone and that added depth is the difference between a team with many injured players and wearing down in the 4th and a team that can still bring guys in and get after it.
Armonty Bryant and Mingo are looking like brilliant picks the rest look like busts at this point, Gilkey has potential but is just so raw. Dezmond Bryant is the brilliant move to this point. The worst part for the front office has been the injuries to their best decisions. Bryant rapid heart beat and back problems concern me big time. Hoyer was making us thinking maybe and he goes down. Lewis was looking like CJ Spiller out there and he goes down.
There best move was imho taking the wait and see approach to what was here instead of coming in and trying to make changes for the sake of making changes. The guys we cut were guys that needed to be cut other than Dawson going to the 9ers we cant really argue with what they cleaned out.
This year we find out how smart they really are. A lot of people arent gonna be happy when they draft Johny football though or trade for Mallett. lol
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1. trading TRich when they did.
I don't consider the trade to be odd or risky. I consider it to be bold and smart for a regime that is newly installed and wants to do things their way. Any new regime should not stand pat with players from a failed one if they don't see said players as a fit for their future or otherwise have to make sacrifices now for future gains, so I see nothing risky or odd about the move. Each regime has a responsibility to overhaul their roster or staff as quickly as possible to fit their master plan. That's something Holmgren proved he couldn't do by keeping Mangini, but of course Holmgren proved over and over how much of a dope he really was. Having said that, nobody saw the trade coming so I can understand how the difference of opinion can seem to be a case of semantics.
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2. Playing Hoyer over Campbell. That again was risky considering their track records and another odd message sent combined with the timing
Here's where I completely disagree.
It wasn't risky or odd to play Hoyer. It was a necessity. Hoyer was brought here to be a potential future starter by Lombardi. That isn't to say the job was handed to him the way it was for people like Weeden and McCoy.
The way to look at it is to ask ourselves this question: If the move had failed, what harm would have been done? Absolutely none is the answer, because the perception by everyone on the planet was that they were sacrificing the present to help the future. This is where I absolutely despise the term "throwing in the towel" because it gives the impression of giving up. Sacrificing the here-and-now for the future is nothing close to quitting. So if there was nothing to lose by playing Hoyer, the move was neither odd nor was it risky. It was smart and it was obvious.
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3. Starting some young unknowns ( potential) from Heckert who were backups last season: Cameron, Skrine, Gipson, Robertson. The two DBs didn't look good at first but are rapidly improving, esp Skrine. Otoh, Obi at FB was a shrewd move that has failed thus far, so has trusting Cousins as the 4th Gs, who was the worst player on the field in the first two weeks. Minor knock on them drafting and keeping Gilkey, but not playing/trusting him as the 4th G.
Again, I disagree.
This is an organization that clearly had eyes on the future. They weren't going to spend all their remaining cap dollars on free agents. We know how that story ends. This team is in a form of rebuilding so playing all these middling guys didn't involve risk. In fact, it would have been riskier to throw more big-money contracts to free agents, as that would have taken away our flexibility in the future.
Playing those guys was a necessity, not a risky or odd decision.
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4. Speaking of: Draft day trades. I was skeptical of the Steelers trade and liked the Colts one better
It just can't resist reminding you that you'd stated just recently this regime wouldn't be able to do trades with a team like the Steelers. More to the point, there was nothing risky or odd about those trades. They were trades, nothing more. They happen all the time and didn't involve anything which made any analyst go "Whoa!"
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5. Switching Ds (I know you were waiting for this,lol): many, me included, thought this was not necessary, but it has paid off quickly
In this case, you weren't in the minority, as there has been a crowd who didn't feel that a switch was necessary. However, again, the move was neither "risky" nor was it "odd."
Myself and many others made a very strong case indicating that switching from a 4-3 to a 3-4 really and truly only amounted to finding one extra free agent, and that guy was Kruger. It was a bonus that we landed Bryant. We noted that Sheard was considered by many to be a potential OLB in the 3-4, and that Jackson was always a victim of shoddy DT play. Now that we're getting good play he's not a liability. As great as Ray Lewis was, when he wasn't protected by his DT's he was exposed. That's the case for most 3-4 ILB's who aren't huge guys.
We didn't risk anything by making the switch that I was hoping for and it's paying off. If you'd like to attribute that to Horton, so be it, though I would say that's an argument for another thread, as no scheme in the NFL is going to work without talent. Getting back to the point, we weren't very far away at all from making a viable switch, so there was no risk here. Many of us made that case last year.
The only move that took people by surprise was the Richardson trade, and I don't consider that risky, only bold. Fan perception doesn't factor into risk for an organization. That's just a perceptual issue for us, the fans. As for the rest, that was just business as usual.
Now trading Josh Gordon, that would be a risk, though if I'm being dead honest, it's one I make if I'm offered a high 1st round pick for him. I don't think the guy can keep himself out of trouble so I'd rather sell high right now. If you have an elite QB that makes up for having an elite WR talent. Afterall, QB's make receivers, not the other way around.
(You like how I brought this back on track to Gordon? )
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I don't consider the trade to be odd or risky. I consider it to be bold and smart
That wasn't my first reaction. But I came to that same conclusion after some reflection.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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The only thing I don't agree on regarding your post is the part about Cousins. I don't think you can hold it against them that 2/3 starting-caliber guards go down at the same time. Your 3rd 4th string guys are that level for a reason. Not starting Gilkey is easily explained away as him not being ready (not the same thing as bypassing Campbell).
Yeah, maybe this is just an excuse, but with a team with as many holes as ours (especially back in the preseason), having even more depth at guard was way low on the list of priorities.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Joe Thomas #73
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Let me preface this by saying that I don't think you did it on purpose or to pick a fight, but I was a little disappointed in your constant agenda "vibe" in your response. I already sensed this in your one line question, but I really put an honest agenda free answer up there and then had to read your post and am astonished how you managed to include Holmgren and going all semantics on me or plain wrong Interpret me. Again, disappointing..and I have to defend myself yet again, as I've clearly stated that we won't be able to trade with the Steelers in the 1st round for a fQB....a mid round trade is a whole other Animal, dont you think? i clearly stated that the TIMING of the TRich and Hoyer moves was odd. What other examples of teams can you give me that traded away their inherited top5 pick and let the 3rd QB Start over the backup, whom they signed well before Hoyer BTW, in the SAME week? It simply never happened before, if that does not quality as "odd" than what does?
It's not you fault I'm completely Fed up with agenda BS, that merit goes to Vers. I think it's stupid to argue agendas when it's plain as day that we win and are a better team thanks to BOTH regimes choices. Can we get back to talking football? Please?
#gmstrong
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1. trading TRich when they did. The return was pure value, but the timing was odd after only two games and risky in terms of message sent. Replacing him with a rusty stop gap FA on top of it.
There were two ways it "could have been" risky. Had TRich have gone to Indy and lit it up, it may have been risky from a PR standpoint. But It doesn't seem they let such things dictate their moves or the trade never would have happened in the first place.
It also would have been risky if they lost the locker room because of it. Had the team simply lost their desire and drive to play hard, I would have seen this far differently.
But this coaching staff seems to have the team in their corner no matter what and that's a great thing to see.
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2. Playing Hoyer over Campbell. That again was risky considering their track records and another odd message sent combined with the timing (TRich trade). Unlike most I think we won the Minny game thanks to Gordon, Cameron and coaching guts. We lose this game (and we were close to) and we'd be 1-4 or even 0-5 now and their odd and risk decisions dont look too good. The decisions turned out to be good no matter the outcome, but they got some luck too to help out on the perception part of it, but you can't win it if you aren't in it. Their aggressiveness paid off, but it was a fine line.
I agree that if it had not been for the fake punt and fake FG, this game most likely would have been a loss. Hoyer was a Lombardi guy for a long time. He boasted about him a lot from past years. So I do agree that overlooking Campbell to play Hoyer was a risk. But it paid off.
I mean when you pay Campbell over 3 mil and let him sit to play a guy who teams prior simply tossed to the side, there is a great deal of risk involved.
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3. Starting some young unknowns ( potential) from Heckert who were backups last season: Cameron, Skrine, Gipson, Robertson. The two DBs didn't look good at first but are rapidly improving, esp Skrine. Otoh, Obi at FB was a shrewd move that has failed thus far, so has trusting Cousins as the 4th Gs, who was the worst player on the field in the first two weeks. Minor knock on them drafting and keeping Gilkey, but not playing/trusting him as the 4th G.
I don't see many of the moves you mentioned being a risk, so much as I see it a necessity. I mean I agree that they could have been more aggressive in the FA market and made more upgrades had they chosen to, but there were so many perceived needs, they couldn't have come close to filling all of those spots.
I also believe we as fans often times perceive things differently. Different schemes call for different skills. I would also beg to question if the Shurmer coaching is why so many of the talents this coaching staff are using, were simply not coached up to their abilities.
I saw many of the same risks you did going into the season, but that was based upon seeing them play in different schemes on both sides of the ball with an entire different coaching staff.
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4. Speaking of: Draft day trades. I was skeptical of the Steelers trade and liked the Colts one better, now it looks like it's the other way around. The Steelers pick could be a top75 selection with great value win and the Colts pick seems like a value wash. Of course those moves have not paid off yet, but they've put themselves in a better position to succeed.
I didn't see either of these scenarios being "bad or risky". Like you, I saw the value in the trade with TRich. And also like you, what becomes of that pick in the future will determine how well we did in that trade.
Any time you can use a pick in one draft to move up in position in the next draft, it's a win. Even last year, the Steelers were on their way down. So it seemed on the very face of it to be a win to me.
Plus I believe most on here realized we had a lot of young talent that needed to be evaluated. They were young players still developing leaving a lot of questions unanswered in regards to how much they would develop and how well they would fit into the new scheme.
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So to summarize: the conversion has paid off, but I'm honestly reluctant to give them much props for it considering their heavy investments in it and the core already in place. 5or6 in this front 7 are among the top 10 earners on this roster, so it better BE a strength.
And as much as people hate to admit it and lambaste those who say this, I agree. I do believe Horton is a great D coach. But having all of the talent in the world doesn't hurt!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I think that the coaches looked at how helpless Campbell was at the end of the Ravens game, and decided that they better put in the guy who is quicker in his release, and who had better mobility so they didn't get Campbell murdered out there.
Even though the Vikings hadn't shown a great deal of pass rush this season, they have great talent up front. With Cousins in at RG, I think that they wanted to avoid having Campbell getting buried.
That said, I also think that they have been impressed with Hoyer since the start of the season, and wanted to see what they had with him. When they took it all into account, they just felt that Hoyer was the better choice. It's hard to argue with that.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I also read somewhere that the coaching staff was incredibly PO'd at Campbell after his 4th down play against the Ravens ... to the point where they had a screaming match with him afterward.
That was an embarrassing play IIRC.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Campbell makes Weeden look like Peyton Manning when it comes to getting the ball out quickly.
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The were also less than impressed with the fact that Campbell sat out the final preseason game with a stomach ache.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Let me preface this by saying that I don't think you did it on purpose or to pick a fight, but I was a little disappointed in your constant agenda "vibe" in your response. I already sensed this in your one line question, but I really put an honest agenda free answer up there and then had to read your post and am astonished how you managed to include Holmgren and going all semantics on me or plain wrong Interpret me.
Glad you didn't think I was on the offensive based on agenda. My only "agenda" was to engage in debate. I couldn't very well disagree with your premise that the FO made risky or odd moves if I didn't first identify what moves you were referring to.
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What other examples of teams can you give me that traded away their inherited top5 pick and let the 3rd QB Start over the backup, whom they signed well before Hoyer BTW, in the SAME week? It simply never happened before, if that does not quality as "odd" than what does?
I would note that the trade of Richardson isn't one I consider "odd" but "bold." Historically one of my believed principals is that when a new regime takes over they should put as many of their own people in place as possible and as soon as possible. It just so happens that they found a team desperate enough to pay a first next year for a RB now that the trade happened now. That's what made it "bold" and not "odd."
As for Weeden being supplanted by Hoyer, it was no secret this regime didn't care much for Weeds. Many teams in the past have brought in "backup" QB's who were there to take the job in very short order. Browns fans my age and older know all about that, as Bellyache brought in Testeverde not as the backup but as a quick hook for Kosar. Dare I say had a team been interested in giving up anything of value for Weeds he'd have been on the first train out before Richardson. People knew Lombardi had a Pez Dispenser in his pocket for Hoyer and couldn't have cared less for Weeds.
Now about the timing of it all, you gotta follow the bouncing ball:
Cards put a 2nd round tender on Hoyer
Browns sign Campbell
Cards release Hoyer
Browns sign Hoyer
Had Hoyer been available earlier and cheaper you can bet he'd have been a Brown and Campbell wouldn't have been in the mix. Furthermore, the only reason they gave Campbell a nice contract to come here was because they didn't believe in Weeds. It's all relative and no longer seems so "odd" does it?
See, that isn't about agenda. It's about Debate.
(but weeds does suck  )
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Legend
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" it's one I make if I'm offered a high 1st round pick for him. I don't think the guy can keep himself out of trouble so I'd rather sell high right now. "
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You do not trade a young talent like Gordon for draft picks. You manage him.
You surround him with a support team. You do not allow him to stray.
That said if a team like the Jags or TB come calling with a first rounder then it is a different story because of their position in the draft and the condition of the Browns quarterback depth chart.
Late first rounder like the 49ers: No.
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Pretty sure I said a high first rounder.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Dawg Talker
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I'll bet they would take anything in the first, or a second and third over a two year span in a heartbeat at this time.
Barry Bonds Check
Roger Clemens Check
Mark McGuire Check
Lance Armstrong Check
71-79 Steelers Taboo
(Lets pretend it didn't happen.)
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Looks like the Browns may have a couple offers to consider in a trade for Gordon. Interesting. The story that won't go away. Offers for Gordon
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That's kind of interesting ..... a high draft pick and a player? Usually teams don't get to that level of detail without some serious talks. (especially 2 different teams)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I take it and don't look back...nothing going to happen this year anyways, and let someone else worry if he's going to get suspended
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Quote:
Looks like the Browns may have a couple offers to consider in a trade for Gordon. Interesting. The story that won't go away.
Offers for Gordon
Whatever deal is on the table, they'll go a little better, then take it right before the deadline, say thanks, and move on.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Depending on what the pick is, and who the player is, I might be inclined to agree.
Man, I hate having to worry that a super talented kid is going to lose his head, and blow his career. I just see how he played yesterday, and I can imagine him taking off with a fiend who doesn't have his best interests at heart, and taking the pressure of with a little something he can't do.
He really scares the hell out of me. I thought that he showed some maturity during/after the Bills game ...... but then he has a game like the Packers game that really worries me.
I really wish that I could fast forward and see what he makes of his career, and his life. I sure hope that we make the right decision regarding him. The decision could blow up on us either way.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Handicapping the Josh Gordon Derby
by Mike Wilkening
October 21, 2013
Pro Football Talk
Trade rumors continue to swirl around Browns wide receiver Josh Gordon.
According to ESPN’s Adam Schefter, two clubs “have standing offers of a high pick and a player” for Gordon, the second-year receiver from Baylor. The Browns, however, are “balking,” Schefter reported Monday night.
There’s a lot to like about Gordon. He’s shown considerable potential in his first two NFL seasons, gaining 16.3 yards per catch. He’s only 22 years old. Also, interested teams surely have to like that he’s signed through 2015 at affordable rates ($825,604 in 2014, $1,068,406 in 2015, per Rotoworld.com figures).
However, Gordon served a two-game suspension for a violation of the NFL’s substance-abuse policy, and any other missteps could lead to a one-year suspension.
Nevertheless, Gordon is an intriguing talent, a player who help quite a few teams, and his contract makes him easily movable if the Browns are so inclined. (Of course, in theory, this also drives up the cost for Gordon.)
After considering every team’s wide receiver situation, contending status and organizational philosophy, we narrowed the list of possible Gordon landing spots to 13 clubs. Here’s our list, ranked in order from the best fit on down:
1. Colts. G.M. Ryan Grigson traded a 2013 second-round pick for cornerback Vontae Davis and a 2014 first-rounder for running back Trent Richardson, so the high price of acquiring young talent doesn’t scare him or owner Jim Irsay. Also, Grigson and Browns CEO Joe Banner struck the Richardson deal. Finally, the Colts are down a key receiver with Reggie Wayne out for the season with an ACL tear.
2. 49ers. They have an extra pick in the second and third rounds in 2014, and there is a need at wide receiver.
3. Patriots. Gordon would add some field-stretching ability to their offense, and they have been willing to make a big deal over the years. That said, thus far, they have leaned on the receivers they have drafted and developed.
4. Lions. Could you imagine Gordon opposite of Calvin Johnson?
5. Panthers. After a 1-3 start, the Panthers have won two straight. On their best, they look like a playoff contender. Gordon would give them a little more playmaking punch.
6. Redskins. Washington could use another receiving threat, and Gordon was a collegiate teammate of Robert Griffin III.
7. Jets. They are slightly similar to the Panthers; another piece on offense would help, and who’s to say they can’t contend for a playoff spot?
8. Eagles. Gordon would add even more speed to a talented offense.
9. Chargers. The Chargers could use a deep threat.
10. Seahawks. Now we’re getting into real long shot territory. That said, the Seahawks are willing to make a big splash.
11. Chiefs. At 7-0, they probably wouldn’t be inclined to change much.
12. Falcons. Getting Roddy White healthy might be their big move.
13. Packers. They could use a wide receiver, but trades aren’t their thing. They prefer to develop their own talent. With Aaron Rodgers at quarterback, they have that luxury.
***************
If that many teams are really interested in Gordon, we need to do better than just a 2nd round pick.
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Looks like the Browns may have a couple offers to consider in a trade for Gordon. Interesting. The story that won't go away.
Offers for Gordon
Whatever deal is on the table, they'll go a little better, then take it right before the deadline, say thanks, and move on.
I agree. I have more confidence in another draft choice then I do with Gordon. His off season history doesn't breed confidence. Add in a proven player and this is a no brainer IMO.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I still make no deal that does not involve some kind of future conditional pick that can escalate to a 1st if he stays clean and performs.
It's bad enough that we have no QB and now RB, but to add a no1 WR to that list would mean we have to wait another 3-4 years till we have some kind of Offense.
A pick is nice, but no guarantee that you get a no1 WR back, those guys don't grow on trees.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Screw that.
The chances that he keep his nose clean are far greater than the chances of us getting another player of his caliber that lives up to folks' dreams of behaving.
Unless it is a ridiculous "you just cannot say no" type offer, you just do NOT do it..... and I'm talking half a draft plus future picks.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
I still make no deal that does not involve some kind of future conditional pick that can escalate to a 1st if he stays clean and performs.
It's bad enough that we have no QB and now RB, but to add a no1 WR to that list would mean we have to wait another 3-4 years till we have some kind of Offense.
A pick is nice, but no guarantee that you get a no1 WR back, those guys don't grow on trees.
Unless the deal is for a First and player.. then what do you want?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Josh Gordon Trade unlikely
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