DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Josh Gordon Trade unlikely

I wonder if Banner thought trading Richardson to the Colts would slow down their ground game, improving our 4th rounder from them?

My cousin's roommate's ex-girlfriend's boss said he heard that Gordon just bought a house in suburban Atlanta!

If we trade Gordon for anything that doesn't bring in a starting QB (Cousins, Mallet?) I'm not sure how much longer I can keep up with this team.

"He could get suspended for a year!"

Joe Thomas could blow out an ACL and miss a year, let's get rid of him, too.

You don't trade a talent like Gordon because of something that MIGHT happen. You roll the dice, give the kid all the help he could possibly need and hope he figures it out and stays on the field.

It's not that your points are invalid. They are very valid.

Short story: I'm not confident that we'll get a return on the picks dealt to us equal to or greater than what we're giving up.
For me, I think there's bigger risk (than the risk from Gordon's drug habit) in not getting enough of a return on the pick(s) from this trade. The draft is a crapshoot as it is, and combine that with the fact that we probably won't get any pick within the first half of the first round (the bad teams won't trade their #1 to us, and teams are scared of his drug habit, like we are).

As for Gordon...
The guy is a bonafide #1WR talent. Whatever 'Toad is on when he says that Gordon isn't a #1 must be some great stuff. He has all the physical tools, the hands, etc. What he needs (desperately) is for the maturation process to run its course.

I don't think so.

Because in my mind that's trading a guy who has proven to be a playmaker for a "MAYBE we can use this to move up"

I'm just not big on trading away proven talent for 'what ifs'

It's not like trading away an aging vet at the back end of his contract like you're seeing about guys like Jared Allen, Tony Gonzalez, etc. Josh Gordon is a proven playmaker and is 22 years old.

I don't trade him because "What if he gets suspended"

2 scenarios

1. We keep Josh Gordon, and he ends up getting suspended next season or the one after. That sucks.

2. We trade him away for a pick or two. The deal gets done, the draft comes and goes, and the guys we select with those picks end up being mediocre guys that are starters here, but probably nowhere else. That sucks.

3. We trade him away for a pick or two. We use part of that haul to draft or trade for THE QB that ends up being a franchise guy, and we nail the other pick to add another offensive weapon. This is the ideal situation.

I see the fallout from scenario 2 being the most likely, by far, given the direction of this decision.

I was on the Trade gordon bandwagon, i think he's still high risk/high reward. Hes very young. But after watching him play and see what is up to bat behind him, I don't think you can do the trade and have watchable football. An owner shouldn't put his fanbase in that position of suffering for a rebuild. You need to give them some sign that you are in this to win and win now, trading your best players doesn't give that message.

Found this that puts alittle different spin

Season Long Ban

By Matt Wood on Oct 29 2013, 4:01a 39



Josh Gordon could avoid a season long ban - Denny Medley-USA TODAY Sports

After doing some checking, Josh Gordon may not be looking a full year suspension


Tweet (28) Share (44)  Share 39 Comments ⋆ Rec 2


Today is possibly the last day of Josh Gordon's career as a Cleveland Brown.

Many fans would be okay with a trade of Gordon, because of his supposed issues with the NFL and their drug policy. As you know, Gordon had issues with recreational drugs at Baylor and Utah, which finally led to him entering into the supplemental draft.

When he tested positive for drugs this offseason, he was suspended for two games and fined four game checks. Many reporters then assumed that Gordon was looking at a season-long suspension if he was caught using again. The only evidence of such an assumption? A quote from Gordon on September 16th of 2013, when Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer wrote an article titled "Cleveland Browns' Josh Gordon confirms he faces year's suspension by NFL if there's another failed drug test."

When I saw the headline, I instantly believed that someone had spoken with Gordon and laid out what he faced if he screwed up again. But when I read the actual article, here was the basis of the "confirmation" -- when asked if he faced a season long suspension, Gordon simply replied "I think that's what it is, I believe so".

And that is all the media needed. No one ever questioned it again. From there on forward, it was always the "season-long suspension" theory of why the Browns were interested in dealing Gordon.

Call me crazy, but I didn't think that sounded knowledgeable enough. So I went digging. Twitter first.

I read the old CBA, not knowing what had changed, if anything, in the new deal. I didn't find much, and if I did, who knows if it still holds up. Then, I did what every red blooded American does. "I googled that .."

Here is what I pieced together:

There are three ways to get placed into the NFL drug treatment program.

1. Testing positive: This is self explanatory.

2. Behavioral: A player having off-the-field issues dealing with alcohol and drugs. This is probably the most likely scenario in which Gordon was entered into the program. With his off the field issues at Baylor and Utah, this seems like a slam dunk. But remember, positive tests in college DO NOT count towards positive tests in the NFL.

3. Self-Referral: A player who requests that he be entered into the program (Never heard of anyone doing this).

A player can then remain in stage 1 for up to six months, but that can be extended for certain situations. There is no way of knowing if Gordon slipped in this stage or if the window was extended by the medical director.

Here is where it gets tricky. The medical director can advise the NFL to advance a player into stage 2, simply on their recommendation (bottom of page 14 here). So a player, such as Josh Gordon, can be entered into the drug program, and elevated to stage 2 with zero positive tests. Granted, smoking a ton of weed in college doesn't help, but it can be done. Players are then in stage 2 for 24 months or two football seasons, whichever is shorter.

Let's assume that this is what happened to Gordon.

He THEN tests positive for codeine and is flagged by the NFL. This means he has a positive test in stage 2. The punishment outlined for the first positive test in stage two is the following:

1. A fine of 4/17ths of the players salary (or we know it as four weeks pay)

2. Suspension of four consecutive regular season and postseason games, including Pro Bowl if elected.

Now Gordon had his four game suspension knocked down to two and was fined four game checks. Getting the suspension knocked down to two games is no small feat, mind you. This is a very important development. Players have been turned down on appeals even though they had prescriptions, like Hollis Thomas. Hell, Kevin Williams and Pat Williams had to go to Federal Court to get their four-game suspensions knocked down to two. So yes, the reduced sentence does show that Gordon may be telling the truth when he says that he was taking medicine and that the NFL believed what he was telling them.

This seems as if it was his FIRST positive test in stage 2.

Here is where people are getting confused. People assume that a positive test in stage 2 automatically means that the player is then dumped into stage 3 which could carry the season long ban we keep hearing about.

But that's not true.

Players are allowed TWO positive tests in stage 2, or one positive test in stage 2 and one instance in which the player failed to comply with the program. (what that means I have no idea, but we haven't heard anything of the sort when it comes to Gordon). A second positive test would then mean:

1. A fine of 4/17ths to 6/17ths of the players salary (or as we know it as four to six weeks pay)

2. A suspension of four to six consecutive regular season and postseason games, including Pro Bowl if elected.

If a player tests positive twice in stage 2 within a 2 year window, that player is then dropped into stage 3, the stage in which everyone assumes Josh Gordon is in.

As you saw earlier, I asked Greg Aiello, head of NFL PR and media question answer mogul, if we could find out a way to see what stage Josh Gordon was in. The NFL keeps this stuff under a tight lock and key (just go back and see how angry the league was when Josh Freeman's inclusion in the program was leaked).

There are tons and tons of pages written on this, and even after reading through it, I am not even sure I understand it. This is my best guess. For all I know, Gordon screwed up his program once before his test, but that is a large assumption to make off of "I think so" from him in September. There is a chance that even Josh Gordon isn't 100% sure.

When you look at the "evidence" of Gordon being in stage 3 vs. stage 2 (the lone suspension, the reduced amount of games, and the four-game fine), I tend to believe that Gordon is on his last strike of stage 2. If he tests positive again or screws up the program, he could be suspended again and then dropped into stage 3, which he would face a season-long ban.

So for those okay with trading Gordon because of the fear of the year-long ban, you may just want to check the fine print one last time.

Nice find.

It would be nice if the Browns could confirm the stage to the public. Oh well.

j/c



how long until someone on this message board posts that since we weren't active at the trade deadline, it must mean we are not trying to win

Gordon is a potential top 5 WR talent. The upside is crazy. This is a 22 year old kid that hasn't played all that much football. Now why he hasn't played much is because he was immature and kept doing stupid stuff resulting in suspensions.

I just can't see trading Gordon for anything less than AT LEAST a 1st round pick and even then I wouldn't do it (unless it's a high 1st round pick). Top 5 talent in a skill position is so hard to get. This guy is a future pro bowler if he keeps his head straight... I'd "let it ride".

This is actually funny. Who is the guy?

After his long-winded spew he says this.

Quote:

---

There are tons and tons of pages written on this, and even after reading through it, I am not even sure I understand it. This is my best guess.

---

In other words? YOU DON'T KNOW EITHER!

I've had the exact same thoughts (in a much less rambly manner) and posted them here several times:

Here is the NFL drug policy. web page

It makes no sense to me why he would be suspended for a year the next time.

It makes no sense to my why no one is clarifying this on a public setting. Beyond privacy concerns...which I think are pretty silly. And instead of arguing that he won't be suspended...at least based on the policy i'm reading, I kind of gave up on it.

My hunch is he wouldn't be. But I don't know why that is being parroted around the league if it isn't true.

If you read the policy and look at his suspensions it would make sense that his next suspension would be 4-6 games. I don't understand why everyone says a year, but I assume they are right in spite of the policy indicating they are wrong. It is tricky

Once the trade deadline passes without a Gordon trade can we lock this thread?

We worked out Armanti Edwards today. I would assume he would be our new punt returner if signed.

and backup emergency QB / backup wildcat QB

It's 4:03pm and Josh Gordon is still a Cleveland Brown.

I can relax now.

CLOSE THE THREAD BEFORE ANYTHING BAD HAPPENS!

Y2FOUROCLOCK has come and gone and the world hasn't ended.

Yep, after a month of growing hype... that's what we get.

It's odd but it does seem like the media has it wrong. Everyone seems to agree that Gordon has 2 strikes against him. 1st strike is just a warning and 2nd strike gets the player a suspension. He's only been suspended once. So, the way I see it is the 1st strike puts him into stage 1. The 2nd strike put him in stage 2.

IF he fails another test he'd get put INTO stage 3. He will have failed a test WHILE he was in stage 2 though which means a suspension of I think 6 games. Still bad but not the year long banishment we've been led to believe.

j/c

The circumstances are not exactly the same, as a matter of fact, the situation I am going to compare Gordon to was much more severe for the player and the team was able to absorb the blow.

Two words...Johnny Jolly.

This dude better stay on the straight and narrow.They still could trade him after the season ends.I think he is an incredible weapon to have,and hope things work out for him to be here long term.

Sometimes when a young person is shown that he is trusted and believed in..maybe they start believing in themselves....

I don't know if I would have traded Gordon or not. I can see the logic in both points of view. However, there are a few points that I find unbelievably ridiculous.

Here is one:

Quote:

---

Joe Thomas could blow out an ACL and miss a year, let's get rid of him, too.

---

And Gordon could blow his knee out, too. By doing drugs, he is only furthering his risk factor. Driving fast means he could also get into an accident. Of course, none of our guys have even been involved in traffic accidents.

Another weird point was the marijuana thing. What is purple dank? If you don't know, look it up.

I hope the guy stays straight. I hope he is as great as you all say he will be. I think he has talent, but weak minds have a way of catching up w/you. Don't any of you remember Leon and K2? How about Stallworth?

Another thing that people seem to be forgetting. If he is suspended for a year, he has to apply for reinstatement. He isn't automatically reinstated. And do you really think this mental midget is going to stay clean after being out of action for a full year? He couldn't even behave after he was suspended. Posting drunken videos and pictures of him w/drug paraphernalia. Brilliant. Tons of self discipline.

I am actually leaning towards being happy we didn't trade him, but reading stupid posts where guys are saying they won't root for the Browns anymore if we trade him are beyond bizarre.

And I guarantee you another thing..........if does get busted again, watch the posters line-up to bash the FO for not trading him when they could. Right Dj?

That is very true... vers...It seems to become that way for a very young age for these guys..and gals.. no matter what sport.

He has great talent and happy we have him here, that said if someone offered me a second round pick…..bye bye Gordon

nrtu

I love how people are hedging their bets now that no trade was made...

Few had a definitive answer on what to do with this guy, most ,like me waffled back and forth, now that the deadline has passed, so may are lining up explaining why we should have traded him, or I would have traded him etc etc...

What did you say BB32 we should cut the FO some slack on this.. as it was a damned if you do and damned if you dont crap shoot....the only cutting I see is the cut and run variety.

I am glad we did not trade him. I don't really think a respectable offer even came in to tempt the browns brass. Same thing with Cameron, that was just an idiotic rumor.

And i liked the previous analagy of the possible year suspension. Just look at it like a torn ACL, only he doesn't need the surgery or the rehab...... OF course at that point his rights probably would be delt to the highest bidder....