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Easy now nice lady... Lets take a look @ something that might open another angle to look at or look @ what I wrote from another perspective...
There is a 53 man roster for NFL teams? Right? Haaa... Much better. 
By the way, I believe that outside of our punter, kicker and long snapper the Browns only have 8 players of the starting 22 you mention that would start on any other NFL team... So you aren't to far off of what I saying... 
Just testing your starter theory (before I write it - I believe your assessment of 8 is darn close).
Wimbley
Davis
Jackson
R. Smith
Bodden
S. Jones
B. Pool
Edwards
Steinbach
Shaffer
Lewis
Close - I got 11. Let me know if I missed any.
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How 'bout Winslow, Jurevicious, Leon Williams and Fraley.
Last edited by FargoFan; 04/11/07 10:17 AM.
And the next head coach is ......
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Winslow was my miss. JJ is truly a #3 - so technically not a starter - I love Leon Williams - I think he's got another year and then he's a starter. Fraley is good enough to start - but he's also great as a back-up make sense?
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My list of Browns starters that would start on ANY othe NFL team...
On 0, Steinbach, Lewis, Bently, KW
On D, Wimbley, Smith, Jones & Roye
Thats it... IMO. We could discuss Baxter, Fraley and Davis, but I don't beleive they would start on EVERY other NFL team... But IMO, these and the others listed by you and others plainly wouldn't.
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I think Bodden could be added to that list also Boise.... at least for most teams, he could start,,, not all of them however.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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My list of Browns starters that would start on ANY othe NFL team...
On 0, Steinbach, Lewis, Bently, KW
On D, Wimbley, Smith, Jones & Roye
Thats it... IMO. We could discuss Baxter, Fraley and Davis, but I don't beleive they would start on EVERY other NFL team... But IMO, these and the others listed by you and others plainly wouldn't.
I get your theory - and believe me, we are talent deficient. I just think your being a tiny bit harsh. The only team Bodden wouldn't start on is Denver - and that's because they have 2 #1 CBs. He'd start on every other team - some as the #2 - but regardless, he'd still start. Andra Davis would as well - except for a select few (Chicago, Balt, Miami). But you'd find that with any player in the NFL except Peyton Manning.
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Reality is harsh somethimes... Call me harsh, I can and will accept that... Especially where it pertains to the talent on the Browns roster... It's easy to play the but, accept, if, maybe game when you take a realistic look at the Browns talent as it pertains to my statement, opinion?  My statement was ANY and EVERY other NFL team... The statement stands... Your reply is proof IMO, that the statement is accurate and that my list is more accurate than the 12 or so players mentioned by others... Bodden would not start on at least 1/3 of the teams in the NFL... Nor would Davis... IMO, neither of these two guys would start on any playoff team either. They are both average players at best.
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Well, let me think,,, wasn't it Bodden that held down the best receiver in the league,,,,, #85 in Cinci,,, I'm not sure, but I think that kinda qualifies as a dang fine Corner.....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Reality is harsh somethimes... Call me harsh, I can and will accept that... Especially where it pertains to the talent on the Browns roster... It's easy to play the but, accept, if, maybe game when you take a realistic look at the Browns talent as it pertains to my statement, opinion?
My statement was ANY and EVERY other NFL team... The statement stands... Your reply is proof IMO, that the statement is accurate and that my list is more accurate than the 12 or so players mentioned by others...
Bodden would not start on at least 1/3 of the teams in the NFL... Nor would Davis... IMO, neither of these two guys would start on any playoff team either. They are both average players at best.
By your estimation then - Tom Brady does not make your list as he wouldn't unseat Peyton Manning. As for Bodden - he's better than every single #2 CB in the NFL with the exception of Dre Bly. Therefore - he'd start on 31 of the 32 teams. You can't name me a #2 CB on another team better than him (except Dre Bly).
So your thought process is highly flawed. Let me preface this by saying that I agree - we are talent deficient. Major deficencies lie in our depth players. The only people who make your list of that caliber which you are speaking are:
QB: Peyton Manning
RB: Ladanian Tomlinson
FB: Lorenzo Neil
LT: Jamaal Brown
LG: Steve Hutchinson
C: Jeff Saturday
RG: Kris Diehlman
RT:
WR: Torry Holt
WR: Marvin Harrison
TE: Kellen Winslow
See where I'm going with this? Be happy we have 1 guy on your list - not everyone does.
As for your Browns assessment - I'm working on an in depth article. You'll see more there and I'll look forward to your responses.
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Practice Squad
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Bodden would not start on at least 1/3 of the teams in the NFL... Nor would Davis... IMO, neither of these two guys would start on any playoff team either. They are both average players at best.
Gotta agree on Davis and disagree on Bodden. Bodden is a # 1 corner on nearly half the NFL teams and and #2 on most of the remaining teams (IMO). There are only a few teams where he would not start. Should he be a Pro-Bowl candidate? Not without more INTs..... Is he a good corner?...YEP...
Davis, however, I don't think he should start on our team... let alone most of the rest of the league.
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Soup... Ever see the Disney original classic movie the Jungle Book??? Remember the two vultures in the movie??? The one vulture says to the other, “Don’t start that again" Please don't start with your parallels and analogies... Cause they have nothing to do with the talent on the Browns roster nor do the have anything to do with my statements in this thread... IMO, your overview/transition/assumptive restatement, "by your estimation then", is Soupeeze for, this is what I think you saying or mean even though it's not... Dude, I don't have any idea how or why you draw your conclusions sometimes...?     IMO, you don't understand what I mean... It's not rocket science either, cause if it was I couldn't to speak to that subject... Tom Brady would start on every, any other team in the NFL. So would Payton. Are you telling me they wouldn't? Don't answer that... Please... I'm not willing to go through the mental gymnastics to try and explain it to you... "The deeper you go, the less clarity you encounter"... Unknown
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I see your points.  Good reply. We are eye to eye on AD... Not that we have to be... Bodden is an average corner... Bodden wouldn't make an all AFC North allstar line up... He's just not that good... His lack of reliability, alone, easily takes him from good to average... Explain to me why you feel and believe differently... Show me. I'm opended to look at, consider any resources, stats, opinions, articles you have to show me differently.
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Easy now nice lady
you're only half right on that one
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I believe that outside of our punter, kicker and long snapper the Browns only have 8 players of the starting 22 you mention that would start on any other NFL team...
I think Tucker, Braylon, AD & Bodden would land starting roles somewhere...possibly even Shafer.
![[Linked Image from members.cox.net]](http://members.cox.net/flyinc5/smallsigpics/frcburnout.gif) AL 29 76 14 R_K
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Then I have no idea what you mean at all.
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Easy now nice lady
you're only half right on that one
You mean you're NOT nice????  
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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I only have one question for everyone, If these guys were all on the draft board when we pick who would you want? Quote:
It could be Frye, Anderson, Green, Russell or Quinn
Be honest!
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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I only have one question for everyone, If these guys were all on the draft board when we pick who would you want?
Quote:
It could be Frye, Anderson, Green, Russell or Quinn
Be honest!
That depends?
Is Thomas on the board at #3? If so,I take Frye in round 3.
See,you're trying to compare a third round QB,with first rounders. We have greater need than QB. So I would use round 1 on Thomas and round 2 on DL,CB,or OL depending on who's BPA there in round 2.
Sure,the third round QB will take a little longer to develop (if anybody has the patience to permit that to happen),but this is a TEAM and we can address other positions to address the building of the "team" rather than risk the first round pick at QB without any resemblance of a supporting cast on the OL or a running game.You need those FIRST before any QB will be successfull any way.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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OK .... here's the rest my man .... Quote:
Savage said this about Green.......he said he only wanted to be a starter---- meaning he would be a huge distraction if he was beaten out for the starting job ..............did not have adequate arm strength LOL, which is ironic because that is one of the biggest things the Frye haters use against Charlie. .............and that he lacked mobility which is a problem behind Cleveland's porous offensive line.
pretty much what i thought ... neither means diddly to me ... but thats what i thought ... before u go off on a tangent guess i best explain myself ...
I dotn want Green being a distraction .. but he is right now HEADS AND SHOULDERS above anything we have ... so if Frye or Anderson or one of the rooks beats him out .. PLEASANT SUPRISE ... and i'll be happy to deal with a disgruntled Green ...
and BTW .. bOtch ain't hear no more ... so i doubt we'll LIE TO HIM and tell him the job is his for sure .. we more than likely will go as far as saying the job is yours to lose ... but no dumb ass gaurantees like bOtch gave ..
and Green behind a pourous OL or any OL for that matter is LIGHT YEARS better than Frye or Anderson ... he does no how to throw the ball away ... and thats not as good as a play when Frye makes them .. but its also much better than an Int. or sack when he does those ...
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Additionally, Green is old. Very old. He won't be around too much longer. I also thought he struggled after he came back from the concussion last year. He wasn't the same Trent Green. I've always liked Green and thought he was underrated, but he lost something last year. Of course, it could have been as simple as his OL wasn't as good as in year's past. However, if that is true.............what's he going to do in Cleveland?
You see my point? Bro, sometimes fixing these problems aren't as easy as people think they are. The bottom line is I'm not sure if Trent Green...all things considered...is a better option for the Browns than Frye is.
after the concusion of course he was going to lose something for 2 reasons ...
1. it would be natural to be gun shy ...
2. rust ...
U cant just ASSume the guy lost it because of a couple below avg. games for him after a 8 week or so layoff ..
and hes only a stop gap ... if he was younger he'd cost a hell of alot more than a 5th or 6th rnd draft choice ..
hes MUCH BETTER THAN FRYE .. its not even close bro .. thats just silly ..
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I don't think he is a dolt or that he stinks.
your an honest guy ... so i believe u ... but your posts certainly are a direct contradiction to what u just said .. 95% of posts u make on Opie or that mention Opie RIP HIM ..... so I am just going on what u post on here ..
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I just haven't seen the "genius" from him that others have.
me neither .... but I dont crucify him like u do either ...
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I think a lot of why people like him has a lot to do w/what I just told you about Green and Frye. They hated Butch and wanna believe the new guy is great so bad, they make it a reality.....at least in their own minds.
I agree .. HOPE is a powerful thing .. especially for those that don't have the knowledge of the game u do .. they rely on it alot more .. while were HOPEFUL are knowledge of the game tempers that hope with the reality of things .. its really pretty simple bro ..
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At this point in time, I think Savage has made more bad moves than good moves. I haven't made a final determination on him yet, but I am saying that this is a big off-season for him.
we;ve discussed the good/bad moves ad nausem .. i like U dotn see the genius .. but i certainly dont see more bad than good ... not even close in my opinion ... have they all worked out?? nope .. but your way to harsh on him ..
as for this being a big off season for him .... I said that last year the day after the draft .. now its almost upon us .. he did a GREAT JOB IN FA this year IMO .. neither of us thought he had a shot at getting Stieny .. and low and behold he did .. he stood the hell away from the Clemonts robbery ,... then he upgraded the DL with a 3 or 4 year stop gap with Robbaaire and took a shot with the NT from Cinci ,.. and he didnt BREAK THE BANK .. we should be in good cap shape next year to make another big spash ...
we'll see how he does in the draft ....
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Wait. You told us all that you thought Savage did the right thing by defending Leon earlier this year. Now, you are saying he should tell the truth? Which is it? And if you ask me.......Leon's sins were much worse than Frye's?
*LOL* ... are u kidding me??? your so far off on so many things in this little snippet its funny ..
1. Frye didnt sin ....
2. Opie didnt hang Frye out to dry ...
3. he didnt condone what Leon did .. he just dodn't THROW HIM UNDER THE BUS OR HANG HIM OUT TO DRY PUBLICLY ... witch is what i agreed with ...
4. what did he say in his "supposed defense" of Leon that wasn't true?? the situation needed to be adressed ... so he took the most tactful way he could .. he didnt' HANG LEON OUT TO DRY IN PUBLIC .. in private I'm sure they got their message across ... and he didnt hang Frye out to dry ...
and its to entirly different situations .. he responded to a question on Frye about how he played in a game .. I never saw Opie or RAC for that matter defending Leon or KW for their route running woes this year ....
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And even putting that aside......I'm saying he did not make an accurate evaluation of that game. The hand was certainly a factor in how Frye played. I think he totally ignored Frye's moxie. Ahhhh..........here is where you didn't think, even though I gave you that opportunity. Ask yourself why Savage would respond to that question in the manner he did.
*L* .. ya i didnt think .. that must be it .... *L* ... he responded that way cause Frye played OK at best .. hell i personally think he OVERRATED that performance ... i could care less about his moxie .. thats all we EVER HEAR ABOUT THE GUY other than his OL/WR's/OC's/RB's stink ...
and remember u may have only heard one part of the answer .. he may have mentioned his moxie ..
and theirs no hidden agenda here .. its very very clear were looking for an UPGRADE at this position .... weather u agree with it or not .. your only lying to yourself if u cant admit it ...
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Try and respond if I do make the thread. Check it over and make sure I don't miss anything. I won't spend a lot of time on it, so I'll probably forget something.
Ya .. thats what I'll be doing if i have the time to respond .. *LOL* ..
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Is Thomas on the board at #3? If so,I take Frye in round 3.
and thats a good choice .. IF and ONLY IF BQ isnt on the board at #3 ...
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As always.........very well thought out and very rational.
I knew i should ahve stopped reading there .. *L*
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Seriously man..........do you ever not try and defend him and try to be objective?
defend him??? *L* .. Gee I'm sorry I like to give ALL SIDES to a story and PRESENT ALL THE FACTS ..
what did I say that wasnt true?? i want to know one thing ..
and u don't think going to a new org. and hiring a complete coaching and scouting staff and learning your own personal gave him ALOT LESS TIME to focus on the draft?? *LOL* ... who reeks of bias?? *L* ..
and my take bro .. I mentioned him TAKING BPA for a reason .. and IMO he ain't getting off the hook for this draft if it dont pan out even with ALL THE EXTRA WORK HE HAD .. but that don't mean I am not going to take into conideration the VERY VALID REASONS i mentioned before making my decision to not let him off the hook ..
U see .. I liked to make INFORMED DECISIONS based on looking at all the FACTORS involved in sumptin ... but thats just me .. 
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I only have one question for everyone, If these guys were all on the draft board when we pick who would you want?
Quote:
It could be Frye, Anderson, Green, Russell or Quinn
Be honest!
hmmm...which one can pancake block?
AL 29 76 14 R_K
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Quote:
I only have one question for everyone, If these guys were all on the draft board when we pick who would you want?
Quote:
It could be Frye, Anderson, Green, Russell or Quinn
Be honest!
hmmm...which one can pancake block?
That would be Russell, unless he ate all the pancakes before gametime
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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See,you're trying to compare a third round QB,with first rounders. We have greater need than QB. So I would use round 1 on Thomas and round 2 on DL,CB,or OL depending on who's BPA there in round 2.
Well Pitt I can tell you are going to be very disapointed on draft day because Thomas will be gone and Brady Quinn is going to be the pick, and personally I can't wait to see him put on that Browns hat!
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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Does that mean the years of your whining will end? 
#gmstrong
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Does that mean the years of your whining will end?
Hell yea, we will finally have a true starting NFL caliber QB. What more could myself or anyone else want? With the QB will come wins and I know that is what we all want!
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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We have greater need than QB.
True true...but Left Tackle isn't one of them. Does that mean I want Shaffer to close out his career with us at LT ...No ...but I have to think it is very least debateable that Shaffer and Quinn(especially with a Blalock, Sears or Grubbs at RG) is better than a Thomas and Frye. Our Guards have always been a greater problem than our Tackles. Besides this year Shaffer will be better than Thomas at LT until Thomas gets his feet wet. Some say by mid season that that would change....I doubt it...I mean even Ogden and Pace needed 2-3 years before they really started dominating. And as much as I like Thomas....he is not a Pace or Ogden. He is probably one of the "safest" picks in this draft. But I don't see him as a dominating force. I see him as an above average just below elite LT....(which is good enough for me...LOL)
The problem I see is we get Thomas...Frye fails...and then we need 2 more years to get another QB ready. And our OLine still looks bad. Joe Thomas is not a miracle cure. Not that Quinn is either...But Quinn will probably be able to start day one for whatever team that drafts him. Partly because of being drafted so high...but also because of his skill set. Frankly I would be happy with either. I just think it is ridiculous the one guy or the draft sucks mentality everyone is taking.
But I do have to ask you who would you prefer to have....Jordan Gross.....or Tom Brady???? Because that is the comparisons made of Thomas and Quinn by the site you pulled the Peterson stuff off of.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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True true...but Left Tackle isn't one of them. Does that mean I want Shaffer to close out his career with us at LT ...No ...but I have to think it is very least debateable that Shaffer and Quinn(especially with a Blalock, Sears or Grubbs at RG) is better than a Thomas and Frye. Our Guards have always been a greater problem than our Tackles. Besides this year Shaffer will be better than Thomas at LT until Thomas gets his feet wet. Some say by mid season that that would change....I doubt it...I mean even Ogden and Pace needed 2-3 years before they really started dominating.
And McNeill played 16 games last year. Thomas is better than Shafer day 1. I like the Quinn pick if Thomas is gone.
But Quinn will look like the same bobble head hitting the turf just like every other tackle dummy we've put back there since 99 without us having a LT. It just means we keep waiting to protect our QB and must pray he doesn't get his leg broke or his shoulder or elbow dislocated in the mean time.
How many bodies need to end up at the Cleveland Clininc before some people understand that? Appearantly more than 9. Because that's the body count so far.
We keep getting QB's without a legit. LT and it has continued to cause problems. At least some people have figured it out. (hopefully the right ones.) Look at how much abuse our QB took in 05 when Ruben did run the ball productively. Did that help the health of our QB's? How about 02 when we even made the playoffs. How healthy did our QB stay that year?
So you can say we will win more. Guess what? That didn't help our QB's in 02. You say running the ball will solve the problem? Didn't help Dilfer or Frye from taking abuse two years ago. Just go back and look at the injuries and sacks.
Shaffer just plain sucks. And the raw ability of Thomas already has him ahead of Shaffer from day 1. And you don't need to look back very far to see that simply running the ball or winning games won't solve protecting the blind side of your QB. In Baltimore? Their LT came first.
In Cincy? Their LT came first. And San Diego is a prime example of what a good rookie looks like against a washed up,underperforming Veteran. McNeill played 16 games. So you can carry on all you want. But recent NFL history shows that protecting that young QB,is just as much or more important than having your QB in and of itself.
But heck,let's ignore all of that.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I wonder how the Browns have graded Schaffer?
I guess if he graded poorly, Thomas will be the pick. If he graded well enough, Thomas won't be the pick.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Well Peen,I see it as Thomas or Quinn.
I don't see any "need" with Johnson. I see too much of a risk pick with AP. And too many questions and inexperience with Russel.
Who knows for sure. I look at where Savage came from and I see that he must understand just how critical the LT position is. I have seen Savage considers it much like a skill position. So time will tell.
Both of these guys are worthy of the #3 overall IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
I wonder how the Browns have graded Schaffer?
I guess if he graded poorly, Thomas will be the pick. If he graded well enough, Thomas won't be the pick.
As always, you've cut right to the heart of the situation Peen..
It makes NO difference at all what we, either individually or collectivly think. If Shaffer graded out well enough,, then I would agree that Phil will pass on Thomas.. He won't feel the need to pull the trigger,,
That is unless he truly goes with BPA and Thomas is at the top of his list. Then what?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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That is unless he truly goes with BPA and Thomas is at the top of his list. Then what?
Then he would take him because my feeling is Savage really goes BPA first unless it just doesn't any sense at all.
That said, I really don't think Thomas rates out top 3. I don't think there is any question Russell, Johnson, and Peterson rank higher on his board. Probably Quinn as well.
That isn't me talking from wanting any of those guys....just stuff I have read, looking at draft sites with player rankings...things like that. I think Thomas sits around 5 or 6 on our list.
I am trying not to let any personal opinion factor into how I feel our board might shape up.....just calling it how I see it.
Of the players mentioned, Johnson makes the least sense but even then, it isn't as if he makes no sense. It's not like our receivers are so good one of them couldn't be replaced by a better player, and Johnson beats the pants off anybody we currently have.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Right Pit.....like I have never stressed OLine before...and I must know absolutely nothing because I am not a Thomas or nothing kind of guy.....
Stop being so melodramatic....are you shooting for an emmy or something????
I tell you this...I have more confidence in Shaffer at LT than I do of Charlie at QB.....if that tells you anything....and just so we are clear...this is not an endorsement of Shaffer.
The bigger holes in this offense is at RG (LG but we fixed that) and QB....LT is a hole...there is absolutely no denying that...but not as big as what we have had up the gut.
Thomas would be an AWESOME pick....but he is not the ONLY and it is debateable if he is the BEST pick for the Browns. Because honestly a Quinn Grubbs combination would be huge for this team....yes EVEN WITH SHAFFER.....
I am getting so sick of the drama everyone is putting on this first pick...Everyone has a favorite and they all go on some crusade to completely rip on every other pick and completely pimp their guy and they get so melodramatic as if we are DOOMED if we don't pick that guy....There are 4...no probably 5 guys at the top that all can help us a great deal...and everyone would be a GREAT pick.
I would LOVE to get Thomas..I do think Quinn and a Guard is a better way to go..But I will be jumping for joy if we take Thomas...But quit acting as if we don't get Thomas that the line will suck and our QB will only get 1/2 a second to throw the ball..because it is crap....
OLine is a problem...Thomas would be a big help in the fix...but he isn't the end all be all solution. There is no reason that we can't drastically improve the OLine in the second round and with the play of the guy taking the snaps... Because that is a part of the OLines problem.
Thomas...Great
Quinn or Russell and a Guard....Great
Johnson....Great
Peterson....well.....I won't agree with it but I will understand it....Great
More draft picks in a trade down....GREAT
We are in the best position we have ever been in for the draft since we came back and all the people around here act like jackasses....GMAFB
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Legend
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Quote:
I wonder how the Browns have graded Schaffer?
I guess if he graded poorly, Thomas will be the pick. If he graded well enough, Thomas won't be the pick.
You're absolutely correct in that is what truly matters, not us... but, when Savage has made comments like "he is our LT, for now" and "we got him because when you look at what was out there, he was the best available" (I'm paraphrasing).... I find it hard to think that Phil is comfortable with him at that spot long term.
Go listen to any presser where Phil speaks of why we grabbed Shaffer (I don't know how far back CB.com keeps videos, but these are older) or why we spent what we did.... his words are well measured before he speaks, and they aren't really "glowing".
just food for thought.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Legend
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... but, when Savage has made comments like "he is our LT, for now" and "we got him because when you look at what was out there, he was the best available"
Yeah, that's true, he has said that kinda stuff, but like anything else this time of year, I don't know how much weight it carries.. Does he mean it or is he saying that to send up smoke signals. This coming from a guy that wants Thomas and will bite at anything that indicates we could get him LOL.. But I just don't know what to believe..
14 days from now, I will know the truth..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Right Pit.....like I have never stressed OLine before...and I must know absolutely nothing because I am not a Thomas or nothing kind of guy.....
Stop being so melodramatic....are you shooting for an emmy or something????
I tell you this...I have more confidence in Shaffer at LT than I do of Charlie at QB.....if that tells you anything....and just so we are clear...this is not an endorsement of Shaffer.
Nobody is being dramatic here. You see QB as a bigger need than LT. Well,we've been through nine QB's and all were injurred if we throw Charlie on the scrap heap too.
So if you'd rather make it 10 than address the real problem,more power to you.
Funny how we keep shuffling through QB's but none ever do squat HERE! Garcia has proven it's not the QB here,it's the team around him. But let's just forget about that,shall we?
I don't have a problem with you seeing things otherwise. Or should I degrade your viewpoint because I don't share it? Call you melodramatic? Ask you to GMAFB? Ask if your working towards an Emmy?
If your points don't hold on their own,putting me down won't help them. And if you don't like the message I'm sending,shooting the messenger won't help you either. You might want to considerr that before you attack people that don't share your views. Or maybe not. Some people can't seem to grasp the concept that weak attempts to discredit others only makes their points seem weaker. You'll have that from time to time.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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True true...but Left Tackle isn't one of them. Does that mean I want Shaffer to close out his career with us at LT ...No ...but I have to think it is very least debateable that Shaffer and Quinn(especially with a Blalock, Sears or Grubbs at RG) is better than a Thomas and Frye. Our Guards have always been a greater problem than our Tackles. Besides this year Shaffer will be better than Thomas at LT until Thomas gets his feet wet. Some say by mid season that that would change....I doubt it...I mean even Ogden and Pace needed 2-3 years before they really started dominating.
And McNeill played 16 games last year. Thomas is better than Shafer day 1. I like the Quinn pick if Thomas is gone.
But Quinn will look like the same bobble head hitting the turf just like every other tackle dummy we've put back there since 99 without us having a LT. It just means we keep waiting to protect our QB and must pray he doesn't get his leg broke or his shoulder or elbow dislocated in the mean time.
How many bodies need to end up at the Cleveland Clininc before some people understand that? Appearantly more than 9. Because that's the body count so far.
We keep getting QB's without a legit. LT and it has continued to cause problems. At least some people have figured it out. (hopefully the right ones.) Look at how much abuse our QB took in 05 when Ruben did run the ball productively. Did that help the health of our QB's? How about 02 when we even made the playoffs. How healthy did our QB stay that year?
So you can say we will win more. Guess what? That didn't help our QB's in 02. You say running the ball will solve the problem? Didn't help Dilfer or Frye from taking abuse two years ago. Just go back and look at the injuries and sacks.
Shaffer just plain sucks. And the raw ability of Thomas already has him ahead of Shaffer from day 1. And you don't need to look back very far to see that simply running the ball or winning games won't solve protecting the blind side of your QB. In Baltimore? Their LT came first.
In Cincy? Their LT came first. And San Diego is a prime example of what a good rookie looks like against a washed up,underperforming Veteran. McNeill played 16 games. So you can carry on all you want. But recent NFL history shows that protecting that young QB,is just as much or more important than having your QB in and of itself.
But heck,let's ignore all of that.
You forget one major point Pit. 1997 1st round choice - Indianaoplis Colts - LT Tarik Glenn. 1998 Peyton Manning. People, heed Pits advice, he knows what he is talking about.
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Oh Right…Like these have no hint of melodrama…. Quote:
But Quinn will look like the same bobble head hitting the turf
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just like every other tackle dummy we've put back there since 99 without us having a LT
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It just means we keep waiting to protect our QB and must pray he doesn't get his leg broke or his shoulder or elbow dislocated in the mean time.
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How many bodies need to end up at the Cleveland Clininc before some people understand that?
Oh and about this Cincy Argument….
(1) We aren’t Cincy
(2) Cincy was picking at #10…The first QB selected AFTER Cincy’s pick was Washington at #32 with Patrick Ramsey…after that Josh McCown in the middle of round 3…So lets see…I am Cincy…do I take Levi Jones or Patrick Ramsey?????
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
I wonder how the Browns have graded Schaffer?
I guess if he graded poorly, Thomas will be the pick. If he graded well enough, Thomas won't be the pick.
When the season was over, I said back then that how Savage views Shaffer will determine what we do in the draft.
I believed that then and I believe it now..Now that people have had time to think it over instead of listening to posters calling people dolts ad nauseum.. they start to see that this is the case..
Shaffer's performance isn't great for a LT making the cabbage he's making (course with the new Cap it's not so much as it was) But at the same time we could do a lot worse. I very much think that he was the best that Savage could do and Phil's hand was forced by the dire OL situation.. The draft offers some relief from that situation and gives Phil some room to move.
In a perfect world (mine) Thomas at 1 and Okoye at 2 would be my picks, but since that ain't gonna happen cause Okoye had to go show off.. I still prefer OL then DL with our first 2.. but, there are still other options..
I am actually okay with the idea of Quinn then a Guard. Quinn would be part of a overall solution to offense rather than just a QB solution. The guy I don't want any part of at all is Peterson.
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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Funny how you wish to minimize that ALL of these teams aquired a LT first. And yes,Cincy used a top 10 pick to get one. And Baltimore? And looking at our sack totals...........they haven't been much more than "bobble heads hitting the turf". I don't make up the sack totals Bud. They are what they are. If you don't like the sound of that,maybe you shouldn't be blaming me for the fact this is true? Once again,look at the sacks and knock downs of our QB's. Do tackle dummies have it so much worse? It is what it is. "It just means we keep waiting to protect our QB and must pray he doesn't get his leg broke or his shoulder or elbow dislocated in the mean time." Why don't you tell me what's innacurate about that statement? Nine QB's. ALL inujured. Some MULTIPLE times. Including a broken leg and a blown elbow. Sorry you don't like the facts here. But there are things we can do to change that you know........... For now,once again,it is what it is. "How many bodies need to end up at the Cleveland Clininc before some people understand that?" Once again,NINE QB's have met the same fate. Right here in Cleveland since 99. You're right. We're not the Bengals. Those are the things that have been going on here since 99. Sorry you don't like to hear it. .
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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SaintDawg - Well said on all accounts. I agree pretty much whole heartedly with you on these points. Especially Okoye. Like you and was it eo, I had Okoye pegged for our second round pick at season's end. Now it looks like there is no way he will be available.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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