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And to say what you said about "one boneheaded play" was hypocrisy-nuts btw. Weeden contributed to a loss with his boneheaded play, DeCastro put their best OL on IR for the season with a devastating knee injury that could alter his career...but that boneheaded play was not so bad....umm, ok, lol
Red herring - something intended to divert attention from the real problem or matter at hand.
"You think I am an idiot in wanting and defending Weeden. All you idiots wanted DeCastro!"
This site is the king of fallacies in arguments.
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[quoteAlso, to continue the "hypocrisy" series going on here lately: I know for a FACT that well over half the board wanted us to draft DeCastro at 22,
How? How do you know that is a FACT?
I don't know if it was over half ..... but there was a sizable contingent who wanted us to draft DeCastro at 22.
As far as how he's playing, I seem to recall him looking fairly solid at pulling from the RG spot in the run game when I have watched the Steelers games. Beyond that, I haven't noticed anything special ..... or ever just plain "good".
I'm sure that there was a group that was all for him, but is it a FACT that over half were?
That was my point,, siteing facts that aren't facts..
As for how he's playing,, he might just be a dog,, Don't know. Havne't paid all that much attention to the Steelers.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I have flipped back and forth when the Steelers are on .... like when they played in London and I could flip between the Steelers and the Browns ..... and like I said, he looked rather ordinary except for pulling. He seems to be an excellent pulling Guard.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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He seems to be an excellent pulling Guard.
I have no idea why, but in my head I read this in a Rain Man "I'm a very good driver" voice.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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We are positioned to make a run for a big time QB and I hope we do.
Of course this is assuming that there are 1 or 2 "franchise" QB's in this draft. That has yet to be determined...
I would have to agree with you. However, I believe there is a reason for us to believe they feel there is. Everyone pretty much knows we need a QB and they didn't see a logical answer in last years draft.
How long do you think they will wait? And if they didn't see this as a much stronger draft class, why did they trade picks for this years draft?
At this stage, everything is a projection. I certainly don't know the answers. But I do know we are positioned to address the QB position. And I believe our staff will be looking at a certain guy for the job.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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At this stage, everything is a projection. I certainly don't know the answers.
Of course we don't know, Pit; we can only surmise what they are thinking and the direction they will go.Certain things have to play out before anybody can finalize plans, such as: is there a "franchise" QB in the draft we will target, what position will we be drafting, and how much value do we attach to our target, will our target fall to us, etc. Perhaps LomBanner (I love that moniker) are working at this moment on swinging a deal before the trade deadline. So many unanswered questions at this time... 
Last edited by bbrowns32; 10/16/13 06:45 PM.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I believe if they actually see someone out there that can possibly be the answer at the QB position, you may very well be right.
However, I just don't see what sense it would make to try to find a band aid they really don't believe is an answer, to only put us in a possibly worse position to get the answer.
I certainly don't feel there is a bona fide QB just floating around out there. And if the only difference signing someone will make is 1 or 2 more games won this season, I don't see the logic in signing anyone.
We agree it's only speculation, but that's my take on it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I certainly don't feel there is a bona fide QB just floating around out there.
You're right, there aren't any. I feel LomBanner are doing their due diligence to see if they can pry a top notch, quality starter away from somebody.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I believe they understand with the new rookie contract deal, combined with the fact it has been proven as the best way to build long term stability, they plan to address it via the draft.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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As you probably remember, I was very vocal about trading down. It was an extremely strong and deep draft. We could have been set at several positions, but we decided to draft two "sexy" players who have turned out to be duds.
Complete incompetence by a clueless front office.
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j/c....
I see a lot of people saying they wish we had taken Blackmon.
So we want Blackmon, but don't like Gordon because of his off the field issues?
What?
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are they the same people?
I would love a team of WRs with Blackmon, Gordon, Little, Bess, and Benjamin.
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I really doubt we take Gordon if we had already taken Blackmon.
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I really doubt we take Gordon if we had already taken Blackmon.
Ditto.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I think if we lose the next two games and get an offer for a 2nd rounder, Gordon is gone by the trade deadline.
Hope it doesn't happen, but I think it will.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I really doubt we take Gordon if we had already taken Blackmon.
You saying that's a good or a bad thing?
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But why would you think that?
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Just a gut feeling.
If we are 3-5, which is highly likely, and which probably means Weeden isn't playing well, then our season will be looking pretty bleak. We aren't winning anything this year at that point, and we know this FO wants to load up for next year. Gordon will be in the substance abuse program for the rest of his career. If we aren't winning anything this year, I think that risk is going to catch up with him as far as our FO is concerned. There will undoubtedly be a WR needy team at the halfway point in the season that just might pony up enough to get the deal done. I think the FO will weigh that against the risk of Gordon going straight and a deal will be done.
Again, just a gut feeling. But I think these next two games are key. If we lose them, the season is done, and I think so is Gordon in a Browns uni. If we win, and Gordon is contributing to those wins, I don't think the FO pulls the trigger. It will be an easier blow to the fanbase if we lose the next two.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I really hope we don't. I understand not winning this year and playing for the future. But what good does it do for the future to trade one of our only two playmakers? 
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I really doubt we take Gordon if we had already taken Blackmon.
You saying that's a good or a bad thing?
I think that it depends on what we do with the 1st round pick we got for Richardson. The pick we could have used on Blackmon was used instead on Trent, and we traded him for the Colts 1st round in next year's draft.
If we draft a bum, then we should have drafted Blackmon. Maybe. If we draft a great QB, using the pick we got for Trent, then we were wise to have stayed away from Blackmon ..... because I don't see anyone giving up a 1st rounder for a guy who is one strike away from a year long suspension.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I hope we don't as well.
Just have a bad feeling about it.
And honestly, if I am in the FO, I'll understand if they do it. It just sucks that one of the best playmakers we've seen in a while is also an idiot. That's not the FO's fault.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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That's a pretty gutsy call on your behalf, but it makes a lot of sense actually.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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j/c....
I see a lot of people saying they wish we had taken Blackmon.
So we want Blackmon, but don't like Gordon because of his off the field issues?
What?
Well, I have certainly been critical of Gordon's off the field issues. On the other hand, I wanted NO PART of Blackmon. Zero. I was adamant about it. I didn't want either guy, but I thought more highly of TRich at the time than Blackmon. I just thought he was trouble, plus he is a WR.
Again, I wanted to trade down and argued for that move over and over and over, albeit on the other board.
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I understand not winning this year and playing for the future. But what good does it do for the future to trade one of our only two playmakers?
I have a question for you, who is the play maker we let go??
Certainly your not talking about TR, no way.... 
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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You should probably read the last dozen or so posts again.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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The staff has some BIG decisions looming. The first being do they decide that Hoyer might be the guy and we don't draft a QB at all? No doubt it is a small sample, but from what i saw it might be a gamble to take and follow up with a 2nd or 3rd round QB.
I will preface the same way... small sample on Hoyer, not saying he is great, but he showed something.. I suppose it's highly possible, since McCoy and Weeden both had some early success and then regressed rapidly... but I would strongly consider this plan....
Go with Hoyer next year, bring in a FA back-up... use draft picks to solidfy some other holes and make the sure the next draft is still fairly well stocked... If Hoyer progresses and lights it up then you have fewer holes and draft picks to use... If Hoyer is terrible, then you hope like hell that Jameis Winston comes out from Florida State. The kid is that good. Tahj Boyd is supposed to be one of the potential franchise QBs in this draft and Winston looked 342% better than him on Saturday.
Winston made more NFL throws against Clemson than Weeden has made all year.. throwing players open, throwing into tight windows, etc...
If the man-crush club hasn't started yet, consider this my application for President. 
yebat' Putin
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As you probably remember, I was very vocal about trading down. It was an extremely strong and deep draft. We could have been set at several positions, but we decided to draft two "sexy" players who have turned out to be duds.
Vers, you don't have to remind me, you know how I be remembering. But for those dawgs that didn't get to read it. Trust me, it WAS said
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weeden never had early success
watch the philly game again the only reason people thought that he had early on success is because they wanted to believe he could be a good QB
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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but I would strongly consider this plan....
Go with Hoyer next year, bring in a FA back-up... use draft picks to solidfy some other holes and make the sure the next draft is still fairly well stocked... If Hoyer progresses and lights it up then you have fewer holes and draft picks to use... If Hoyer is terrible, then you hope like hell that Jameis Winston comes out from Florida State. The kid is that good. Tahj Boyd is supposed to be one of the potential franchise QBs in this draft and Winston looked 342% better than him on Saturday.
This plan already is built around a worse case scenario. Its a plan for a college QB who might come out, or who might get hurt or who might say he wants to play in the lime light and not Cleveland. Not saying your plan is wrong, but I like going into next season knowing that Hoyer can compete. But there are about 7 QBs the Browns can take with one of their first 3 picks. All picks could be used to select a QB. But Id rather select a QB later if it meant that the Browns were going to use all 3 picks to fill some needs. I want 3 players with those picks and not just one QB.
I want a new WR, ILB and QB with the first 3 picks. Even if it meant trading a 3rd or 4th rounder to get "their guy". O-line, RB and DB would be addressed also in the draft
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but I would strongly consider this plan....
Go with Hoyer next year, bring in a FA back-up... use draft picks to solidfy some other holes and make the sure the next draft is still fairly well stocked... If Hoyer progresses and lights it up then you have fewer holes and draft picks to use... If Hoyer is terrible, then you hope like hell that Jameis Winston comes out from Florida State. The kid is that good. Tahj Boyd is supposed to be one of the potential franchise QBs in this draft and Winston looked 342% better than him on Saturday.
This plan already is built around a worse case scenario. Its a plan for a college QB who might come out, or who might get hurt or who might say he wants to play in the lime light and not Cleveland. Not saying your plan is wrong, but I like going into next season knowing that Hoyer can compete. But there are about 7 QBs the Browns can take with one of their first 3 picks. All picks could be used to select a QB. But Id rather select a QB later if it meant that the Browns were going to use all 3 picks to fill some needs. I want 3 players with those picks and not just one QB.
I want a new WR, ILB and QB with the first 3 picks. Even if it meant trading a 3rd or 4th rounder to get "their guy". O-line, RB and DB would be addressed also in the draft
I say just find the QB you like the most. If that means trading up to a higher pick to get him, so be it. If that means you can fall back a little bit, while using our 1 for someone else, that's fine too. Just find YOUR guy.
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I understand not winning this year and playing for the future. But what good does it do for the future to trade one of our only two playmakers?
I have a question for you, who is the play maker we let go??
Certainly your not talking about TR, no way....
Yeah, you might wanna re-read a few posts.
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Wait, by what measure are you calling Decastro a bust? He's playing very well.
Lol, really? You might ask some Steelers fans about that. He cut blocked his C to IR. That's their version of the underhand-INT this season.
Take a look, if you haven't seen it yet: http://gamedayr.com/sports/gif-david-decastro-maurkice-pouncey-injury/
He got owned all last season and that got him injured twice.
He got moved from LG to RG because he was bad and the UDFA, who played RG and every Steelers fan wanted to see upgraded actually had to move to LG and the Steelers still have a terrible OL and he and Adams are the main reasons, as Pouncey, while overrated on his own, was at least a decent C until DeCastro knocked him out for the season.
He's a one dimensional G-only with zero position flexibility (RG), even if he becomes an AVG RG, he'd be a bust at 22, as AVG RGs grow on the 3rd day or UDFA of any draft, the position has slightly more value than a FB.
Just thought I would revisit this "DeCastro is a bust" nonsense.
From Pro Football Focus
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Steelers David DeCastro has moved to No.3 among guards at +11.3
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Just clicking. Thought this was a good read and that it belonged here. 2nd chance for Weeden Home / Cleveland Browns / Why Did The Cleveland Browns Give Brandon Weeden a Second Chance Over Jason Campbell? Why Did The Cleveland Browns Give Brandon Weeden a Second Chance Over Jason Campbell? By Sam Ingro Updated: October 29, 2013 Tweet Have you ever stopped and asked yourself “when will the Cleveland Browns quarterback carousel ever stop spinning?” If you have, you are not alone. After opening the season as the 18th starting quarterback in the Browns expansion era, some thought that Brandon Weeden could finally be the answer to the question. Two disappointing losses and an injury later, Brian Hoyer became the 19th starter in Browns history, knocking off the Minnesota Vikings and Cincinnati Bengals in consecutive weeks. The solid play of Hoyer left fans elated that the team finally had their answer. Fast forward to Week 5 against the Buffalo Bills. Hoyer tears his ACL on a scramble to the sideline, and Weeden re-enters the fray to a chorus of boo’s from the crowd. The story plays out from there, Weeden plays a mediocre game and the Browns win on the strength of defense and special teams. Then, two downright embarrassing losses to the Detroit Lions and Green Bay Packers happened, and the hook finally came out on Weeden. Jason Campbell was then named the 20th starting quarterback, given the task to lead the team into Arrowhead to face the Kansas City Chiefs. Despite losing, he reminded people why fans were excited about Browns football in the first place. While Campbell didn’t get the win, the offense looked productive, and by all accounts, it was an exciting game. Josh Gordon and Jordan Cameron showed why they are regarded as the Browns lone two playmakers, the defense stepped up in a return to form type of game, but it still was not enough to knock off the now 8-0 Chiefs. The big story though was Campbell going 22-of-36, for 293 yards and two touchdowns, and being the second passer to perform well in the offense. Neither of those players happened to be Weeden. So now it has prompted many to ask the question on radio shows across the state. If the Browns knew that Weeden wasn’t the best passer on the roster, why did they go back to him after the injury to Hoyer? Determining Potential From Reality Quite simply it was to figure out the unknown. Weeden was chosen in the first round of the 2012 NFL draft, meaning somewhere along the line, enough people felt that he had enough talent to warrant the decision. After two poor showings, fans feel the front office should have seen the writing on the wall, but it truly is unprecedented for a passer selected where he was taken to already be given up on. Even epic busts like JaMarcus Russell and Tim Couch saw more time on the field than Weeden, which could be why the front office has acted methodically in determining what they have on their roster at the position. Line Stability For as much grief as the current line of Joe Thomas, John Greco, Alex Mack, Shaun Lauvao and Mitchell Schwartz have taken, they have performed fairly well in pass blocking. When Weeden started the season, the line was decimated with injuries to players like Lauvao, Jason Pinkston, Ryan Miller and Chris Faulk. After attempting to make a deal with Seattle for guard John Moffitt, that deal was curiously axed as well. So with a rotating door at the guard position, Weeden took more than his fair share of abuse, primarily coming courtesy of Oniel Cousins. With the line back at full strength, the coaches obviously were interested in what he could do while staying upright. Running Back Turmoil The last time Weeden had snaps under center, the Browns running back situation was resting solely on Trent Richardson. With the former Alabama second-year back missing key blocks, struggling in blitz pickups and averaging paltry totals on the ground, Weeden was forced to throw much more often than he should have been. Since then, the Browns jettisoned Richardson to Indianapolis for their 2014 first-round pick, and signed veteran back Willis McGahee to shoulder the load. With Chris Ogbonnaya now picking up blitzes and clearing lanes for McGahee, the Browns coaching staff wanted another look at the beleaguered 30-year old quarterback. The results were the same, but now they know for sure. The Return of Playmakers Finally, the biggest reason Weeden likely returned to the lineup. With Gordon suspended the first two games of the season, the Browns were unable to open up the playbook down-field like they had hoped. Whether you like Weeden or not, nobody can deny that rocket arm of his that made him so appealing as a prospect. The idea of launching bombs to Gordon down the field proved to be too tempting for Rob Chudzinski and Norv Turner, and they gave Weeden presumably his final chance. Again, the results proved to be less than desirable, but you don’t know unless you let it play out. The front office now knows exactly what they have in Weeden, and now they can move forward with the season, with a 2014 offseason and a draft just on the horizon.
And the next head coach is ......
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Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I don't even have the energy to break down how badly some of these points really are. But I'm sure someone will. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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...attempting to make a deal with Seattle for guard John Moffitt, that deal was curiously axed ...
Off topic I know, but I'd really be interested to know exactly what happened here. I have a conspiracy theory, but of course nobody wants to hear it...
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Outside of some glaring errors in the Line Stability section, I didn't really have any qualms with this article. What are yours?
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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...attempting to make a deal with Seattle for guard John Moffitt, that deal was curiously axed ...
Off topic I know, but I'd really be interested to know exactly what happened here. I have a conspiracy theory, but of course nobody wants to hear it...
I thought he didn't pass the physical?
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Quote:
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...attempting to make a deal with Seattle for guard John Moffitt, that deal was curiously axed ...
Off topic I know, but I'd really be interested to know exactly what happened here. I have a conspiracy theory, but of course nobody wants to hear it...
I thought he didn't pass the physical?
He didn't and the trade was annulled. Then he was promptly traded to Denver whose subsequent physical he PASSED. Hmmm...smacks of a Conspiracy Theory.
Last edited by bbrowns32; 10/30/13 03:41 PM.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,831
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,831 |
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Line Stability
For as much grief as the current line of Joe Thomas, John Greco, Alex Mack, Shaun Lauvao and Mitchell Schwartz have taken, they have performed fairly well in pass blocking. When Weeden started the season, the line was decimated with injuries to players like Lauvao, Jason Pinkston, Ryan Miller and Chris Faulk. After attempting to make a deal with Seattle for guard John Moffitt, that deal was curiously axed as well. So with a rotating door at the guard position, Weeden took more than his fair share of abuse, primarily coming courtesy of Oniel Cousins. With the line back at full strength, the coaches obviously were interested in what he could do while staying upright.
Anyone with a stop watch knew Weeden was holding onto the ball too long. Same problem he had when all these guys were healthy before. I mean if you wanted to see a real time instant replay, you got to.
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Running Back Turmoil
The last time Weeden had snaps under center, the Browns running back situation was resting solely on Trent Richardson. With the former Alabama second-year back missing key blocks, struggling in blitz pickups and averaging paltry totals on the ground, Weeden was forced to throw much more often than he should have been. Since then, the Browns jettisoned Richardson to Indianapolis for their 2014 first-round pick, and signed veteran back Willis McGahee to shoulder the load. With Chris Ogbonnaya now picking up blitzes and clearing lanes for McGahee, the Browns coaching staff wanted another look at the beleaguered 30-year old quarterback.
The results were the same, but now they know for sure.
We were shown we didn't have a running game with TRich and everybody pretty much knew it wouldn't get much better with McGahee, if at all. To try to claim that they wanted to see Weeden with "the new running game" is pure silliness.
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The Return of Playmakers
Finally, the biggest reason Weeden likely returned to the lineup. With Gordon suspended the first two games of the season, the Browns were unable to open up the playbook down-field like they had hoped. Whether you like Weeden or not, nobody can deny that rocket arm of his that made him so appealing as a prospect. The idea of launching bombs to Gordon down the field proved to be too tempting for Rob Chudzinski and Norv Turner, and they gave Weeden presumably his final chance. Again, the results proved to be less than desirable, but you don’t know unless you let it play out. The front office now knows exactly what they have in Weeden, and now they can move forward with the season, with a 2014 offseason and a draft just on the horizon.
To me, this seems to be the only likely reason. With one exception which was not mentioned. Now that Weeden has been pulled, he's done. The team, coaches and fans all know it and he is pretty much the only alternative at this juncture with the exception of an emergency QB.
So you don't want to make that move unless you feel you've exhausted every chance you can give him. Let's just hope Campbell can stay healthy because he's the only shot we have.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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