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Yeah bipolar wouldn't surprise me. That would be a non-story. Anywho. If that information never leaked I don't really want speculation so who cares  It would be kind of sweet to get a tell-all about locker rooms every 10 years or so. It was nice to learn about DQs hazing.
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Quote:
Report: Dolphins coaches asked Incognito to toughen Martin up - CBSSports.com
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foot...ughen-martin-up
The Dolphins coaching staff didn't tell Richie Incognito to bully Jonathan Martin, but they did ask Incognito to toughen Martin up, according to a report from the South Florida Sun-Sentinel.
After Martin missed a voluntary workout last spring, the Dolphins coaching staff approached Incognito and asked him to 'toughen up' Martin, according to the report. There were no specific members of the Miami coaching staff named in the report.
According to the Sun-Sentinel, Incognito may have taken the orders too far. I.
Rut Row! This is headed for court.
Coach Philbin did you order the code red on Jonathan Martin?
I want the truth.
You can't handle the truth!
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Rut Row! This is headed for court.
Coach Philbin did you order the code red on Jonathan Martin?
More likely it was the O-Line coach, and even if they asked him to toughen Martin up I'm sure they didn't dictate how to do it. It's one thing to be a mentor and try a little tough love, it different to bully a guy. That decision fall on Incognito.
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Shame on the Dolphins then for drafting a guy they didn't think was tough enough. This whole immature mentality about "hazing" (lightly or even harshly) is completely unacceptable at this level. These guys are professionals in a highly lucrative business. Instead, they act like 15 year old boys who have hormonal issues and feel the need to act so tough in front of the other guys. This whole concept of "what happens in the locker room, stays in the locker room" to cover up this level of childish behavior, and then publicly defending it, just doesn't work. Makes me want to give them all a wedgie! 
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This whole immature mentality about "hazing" (lightly or even harshly) is completely unacceptable at this level.
These guys are professionals in a highly lucrative business. Instead, they act like 15 year old boys who have hormonal issues and feel the need to act so tough in front of the other guys. This whole concept of "what happens in the locker room, stays in the locker room" to cover up this level of childish behavior, and then publicly defending it, just doesn't work.
I guess when they hear that the NFL players is like a "fraternity" some of them took it too literally.
yebat' Putin
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I thought this was very interesting......
from the redzone
No warning signs in Jonathan Martin's pre-draft tests
Nov
6
11/6/2013 11:44:06 AM
The mental health issues currently being experienced by Miami Dolphins tackle Jonathan Martin weren’t foreseeable in his pre-draft psychological profile, Alex Marvez of FOXSports has learned.
Martin registered extremely high marks on the testing conducted by the North Carolina-based scouting service Human Resource Tactics that is used by several NFL teams. A copy of the report obtained by FOX Sports showed Martin scored a perfect 10 for his overall profile as well as two subcategories of testing – affective commitment and combative attitude. He scored a 9 for dedication, self-efficacy and receptivity to coaching.
Martin’s lowest grades were given for social maturity (6), focus (7) and interpersonal style (7). Even so, those marks were well above those posted by most of Martin’s peers in the 2012 draft.
“Martin’s mental ability test results are consistently positive,” the report reads. “His matrices data place him well above the minimum typically associated with his position.
“He is not afraid to say what is on his mind if things are not going as they should. He is likely to be seen as a team enforcer if his level of play lets him assume this role.”
I wonder what the test results were on the bully?
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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I thought this was very interesting......
from the redzone
No warning signs in Jonathan Martin's pre-draft tests
Nov
6
11/6/2013 11:44:06 AM
I find that article disturbing on two levels.
1. How did fox get confidential tests ( almost medical / psychiatric results which HIPPA Prevents Dissemination).
2. Looks like it was set out to blame the victim. (What does it matter what the victims mental health was. Without the perpetrator we would not have a story. It like blaming the person for getting raped because she wore a short skirt. Irrelevant).
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Quote:
2. Looks like it was set out to blame the victim. (What does it matter what the victims mental health was. Without the perpetrator we would not have a story. It like blaming the person for getting raped because she wore a short skirt. Irrelevant).
I don't really see it that way. We don't have nearly all the facts yet but if I pull a practical joke on you and you think it's funny and I pull it on 99 more people and 98 of them think it's funny and one doesn't and gets all bent out of shape, then is the problem with me and my practical joke or is the problem with that one persons ability to take a joke?
It's not about blame, its about determining whether what would be considered a normal amount of goofing off to most people was going to send this guy over the edge. It's one small piece in helping to understand the whole sordid story.
yebat' Putin
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DC,
That is a valid point.
I would agrgue that the alleged behavior of Incognito is so beyond societal norms, that the mental health of Martin Does not matter. Societal norms do not condone the alleged behavior.
It is basically asking why someone who was belittled, racially abused, threatened with violence to themselves and their family, and had large some of money extorted from them could not take the abuse. As if it is the victoms fault that they wee not man enough to stand up to the abuse.
In reality, it should be asking, why is there a person or culture, that believes this behavior is acceptable. IE. Why is Icognito an .....
But that is just my two cents.
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1. I was thinking the same thing.
2. I was thinking the opposite. His psych tests seem to show that he was mentally "tough". It seems to infer that Martin isn't a big baby that just needs to suck it up. That's how I read it, at least.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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I still think too many of you are making definitive judgements w/out knowing the particulars.
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My last post was simply my take on the synopsis of those psych tests he took. In general, you're right, though. All we can do is speculate with so little hard information out there. Continued speculation: I'm surprised by the amount of support for Incognito from players(or anti-support when they're talking about Martin). A number of current players on other teams have chimed in, mostly against Incognito, Rolle (below) has spoken against Martin, and Ricky Williams emerged from a cloud of smoke to speak out against Martin. The support for Incognito from his current teammates really caught my attention. I mean, the little bit of actual hard evidence out there is pretty damning, but they're still supporting the guy. Makes me wonder if there's a lot more to this story that we don't know about (and may never hear). Teammates support Richie Incognito http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9935801/multiple-miami-dolphins-players-support-richie-incognitoAntrel Rolle blames Martin, too http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/...harassment-case
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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I should have typed j/c. I wasn't specifically addressing you.
I just read another article where Tannehill said that Incognito and Martin were best friends. Another one quoted Harltline as saying that Martin was passing that offensive voice mail around and laughing about after it happened.
Like I said............I think there is a lot more to this story and it's wrong to jump to conclusions.
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Linky? I'd love to read that and I didn't see it when I posted mine above.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Wow - this is getting stranger and stranger by the minute.
#gmstrong
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Yeah, I think there are a lot of variables to this story. Not sure if we will ever know the entire truth.
My guess is that Incognito gets all the blame so the NFL can tie a neat bow around it. However, I bet it is more complex than that. That is pure speculation.
I do think people need to be careful when throwing words around like victim and bully in this case. My experience and gut tells me that there is way more to this story than what has been presented. I'm getting the feeling [pure speculation] that Martin is not quite the victim that most people think he is. That is not to absolve Incognito, because a jerk is still a jerk.
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Here is another one about teammates defending Incognito and questioning Martin. Some of these have already been posted, but a couple of new ones. The one about the player not knowing why Martin is doing this is probably telling. http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl...r-room/3458891/
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Let me ask y'all this: Who do you think the players on the Miami's teams would accept back and who would they perhaps not accept?
Next question: Who is closer to the situation? The players or the media and the general public?
Once again, please be responsible before assigning tags.
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JC
It seems to be that Martin's alleged "softness" comes from him going to Stanford. Ugh. So many wrong things coming from that idea...
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That doesn't even make sense. Stanford has been one of the most physical football teams in the NCAA the last several years.
I personally think the guy has a screw loose and is using this bullying angle to save face for quitting on his team.
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That doesn't even make sense. Stanford has been one of the most physical football teams in the NCAA the last several years.
I personally think the guy has a screw loose and is using this bullying angle to save face for quitting on his team.
I think it's more about Stanford's academic prestige more than their football team. It seems like he's also came from a private high school outside of Pukesburgh.
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I hate hazing. I feel it is pointless and I could care less if someone before me had to endure this, sucks to be you when you endured it but that doesnt have a damn thing to do with me. At least that is my take. I dont take well to hazing, bullying nor even practical jokes.
Now with that said, there are mentally weak people. There is nothing easier than quitting and Martin is a pampered mentally weak quitter. The kid has all world talent and ovaries where his testicles should be. I am sure he played on a little league team that gave everyone trophies so all could feel special lol.
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LOL..........pretty harsh, man.
I don't like hazing either. It's stupid. I am just getting the feeling that this case wasn't really about hazing, but more about a guy melting down and then blaming others for that melt down.
I know I chided others for speculating and I know that I am speculating myself. I can see the conflict. However, I just have a strong vibe about this due to my time in so many locker rooms. Martin's story isn't ringing true w/me.
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Just because the guy laughed about the stuff that Incognito did to him doesn't mean that he wasn't hurt by it.
Look at all of the people, both male and female, who stay in abusive relationships. Look at the people who work for abusive people who are though to be among the more knowledgeable in their fields, or who are famous, and who try, desperately for approval. Martin may have resented what Incognito was doing to him, while still desperately trying to win his approval. He may have tried to sloff it off, while it sank in and seethed under his skin with each new comment.
Plus, if Incognito really did threaten Martin and his family, maybe Martin felt like he had to go along with a lot of stuff, and it all kept piling on top of stuff until he just couldn't take any more.
I admit that this is a very strange situation.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
I just read another article where Tannehill said that Incognito and Martin were best friends.
Clearly, Martin (being gay) made a move on Incognito. Incognito was intrigued, always having had secret erotic feelings for men, but when things got too real, he compensated for his latent homosexuality by bullying his former friend. Case solved.
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Quote:
Quote:
I just read another article where Tannehill said that Incognito and Martin were best friends.
Clearly, Martin (being gay) made a move on Incognito. Incognito was intrigued, always having had secret erotic feelings for men, but when things got too real, he compensated for his latent homosexuality by bullying his former friend. Case solved.
Well... you certainly wrapped that up for us in a nice pink ribbon, didn't you?
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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pink? PINK? I hate stereotyping.
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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My wife bullied me into cleaning the kitchen last night. I wanted to walk out, but she wouldn't let me.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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I would agrgue that the alleged behavior of Incognito is so beyond societal norms, that the mental health of Martin Does not matter. Societal norms do not condone the alleged behavior.
In this particular case, I would agree with you. It does seem that by most peoples standards, Incognito crossed the line. I was speaking more general with regards to taking and going back to look at this psych eval test that he took.
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Been trying not to comment too much on this, just because the media loves to under-report facts on things like this (you know, despite talking ad-nasuem about it for a week straight) A couple of points ... The players are ALL standing up for Incognito here, which I find interesting. Is Jonathan Martin's side of the story misrepresented? Is he lying? Did nobody have any idea he felt he was getting bullied? I know I've seen banter between my own friends that's pretty bad ... some on the level of what is being brought up here. Pretty much all of it, everyone knew wasn't serious or said in a joking manner. Did Martin make any indication that he didn't like this? I've noticed a lot of people throw out the "victim" label", and then immediately equate this to rape victims, which I think is a horrible comparison. I kind of hate this, because it immediately throws up the "victim- bubble", where the victim is always right, couldn't possibly have done anything wrong or lying, and anyone who tries to question him is "attacking the poor victim". Another interesting point was made by a friend of Incognito's from college, Kirk Morrison, on the radio down here. Some of the biggest reaction is from Incognito using the "N" word in some of his calls. Morrison was suggesting, that he might have been doing that in attempt to find what would push his buttons and get him out of his shell. From all accounts, Martin was a quiet dude that didn't have any nastiness about him. According to Morrison (who's black by the way) ... he might have been trying to find anything that would set him off, so he could use that to channel his anger into football. You see this all the time on things like Biggest Loser ... and was pretty much the whole plot of the movie "The Waterboy". Seems most of Incognito's black teammates are defending him, and not saying he's a racist (something you didn't see with Riley Cooper earlier this year) ... so maybe there's something to that. Finally, someone made a post about Colonel Jessup's speech in a Few Good Men, and it sort of applies here. People want to apply their own workplace and lifestyle to something like this and I don't think you can. Jobs like the military and football aren't like normal work jobs. There's an extreme amount of mental and physical toughness that's required, and part of that means you need to be mentally and physically prepared to take that on. So while people can sit back and say, "well look at that, that would be bullying at my workplace" ... you also don't have linebackers flying at your head while you work. Certainly the lines can be crossed though ... and I think that's what the issue is here. Were lines crossed? I don't know ... and what can even be considered a line? Again, my wife watches the show "Biggest Loser" ... a good part of it is the trainers sitting there insulting the contestants, so that they try harder, get angry, or breakdown and they know how far to push them. Are we going to say they are "bullying" people? Because frankly they are ... but there's a good reason for it.
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The whole article is pretty interesting. It's an insiders account from Lydon Murtha who played OT from 2009 - 2012 for the Dolphins. Here is what he had to say about the $15,000 payment for the Vegas Trip. Quote:
Every year, as tradition, the offensive line goes on a big Vegas trip. Everything is paid for in advance, from hotels to a private jet to show tickets. Martin originally verbally committed to the trip, then later backed out after everything was booked. Now, if you can’t go because of an emergency then it’s okay, but to say you’re going and then decide you don’t want to spend the money later? Everything was paid for, and then when it was time to pay up he didn't want to go anymore. You don’t do that to your brothers. The veterans who paid for it, including Incognito and others, asked for Martin’s share, and he gave it to them. End of story.
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More and more it just sounds like Martin is a huge cry baby.
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That's an excellent post Excl. It reinforces more about how I feel regarding this....shame on the Dolphins for drafting a young man who they feel wasn't tough enough. In "A few good men", private Santiago volunteered for the Marines and was put into situations that ultimately he couldn't handle. The Marines did not pick him. Why would you draft a guy who didn't meet one of the core attributes for an OL (mental toughness)? But I will disagree with you on comparing it to other workplaces. Once a player signs that contract and makes the final roster cut, he is now officially a professional. He is a team member and he has a job to do. Under no circumstances is it acceptable to treat him as anything but a colleague. He has a job to do like anyone at a corporate job does. If he fails, he is no longer employed. I don't have linebackers flying at my head at work but that doesn't mean i'm not under serious mental pressure. Once you've "made it" to the NFL, all childish behavior should stop. Shame on the Dolphins for feeling a need to "toughen him up". Either he can do his job or he can't. Anyone see the story on MMQB? Ex-teammate story
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*In Baker we trust*
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between Murtha's story and the Dolphins all backing Incognito here, it appears that Martin's story has quite a few cracks in it.
I doubt this is the last of the turns in this story though.
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Yeah this is a crazy story. Who knows what is going on.
If Incognito didn't have such a history of being a loose cannon I'm not sure how much Martin's story would have gained traction.
Will be interesting when the truth is made clear.
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Quote:
I don't have linebackers flying at my head at work but that doesn't mean i'm not under serious mental pressure.
I'm not saying you don't have serious mental pressures at your job ... I know I do as well. But I also don't have the chance of death or serious injury performing my job. It just seems like a whole different level of mental and physical toughness that's required. Something that many people would never understand, unless they've been in a pro locker-room or something like the military. Interestingly enough, it's the guys in the locker-room that seem to be defending him.
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Once you've "made it" to the NFL, all childish behavior should stop. Shame on the Dolphins for feeling a need to "toughen him up". Either he can do his job or he can't.
Teams continue to have weight and conditioning programs as well as all kinds of other aspects to help players physically develop in their professional careers. Why wouldn't they want them to mentally develop as well? Again, I'm not saying that excuses full on abuse, but I think there is still a mental development aspect that needs to happen past a player getting drafted.
I can't fault the Dolphins for drafting a guy they thought was wasn't mentally tough enough. Should we fault the Browns for drafting Mingo when he wasn't physically big enough? Shouldn't we expect the Browns to put him through weight training exercises that no ordinary office worker should have to subject themselves to, so that he becomes stronger? I wouldn't expect the Browns to say, "Well you're a pro now, so we expect you to be good enough already, or at least get better on your own".
Granted the improving the mental aspects of a person is a tricky situation. Like I said, you see a lot of situations that are borderline "bullying" when trying to improve a person's mental toughness. You almost have to do that. I'm not sure where you can draw the line. It's really down to the people in charge of the situation to figure out when you've gone too far.
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Jonathan Martin Leaves Dolphins
After "Incident"
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