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Yea i seen that. Bailey is a career .500 pitcher. What is david price going to get? Not sure i would spend 100 million on masterson.
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Hope baltimore is happy to give ubaldo 4 years and 48 million. Man is that a bad deal. 1 good post all star break leads to 48 million. Only in baseball.
it all depends. he doesn't have to pitch like the 2nd half to be worth that money. it is far from the worst deal out there (though not sure I'd trust him with Mickey, let alone without him).
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He was horrible for us for 2 years, not to mention he was a 5 inning pitcher that was terrible the 3rd time through the lineup. He would be cruising for the first 4 or 5, then out of nowhere lose it. I just don't see how he deserved a 4 year deal based on 3 great months of baseball. I think it is wishful thinking on the Orioles part that he will be a more consistent pitcher in that division. They are known to be patient, and drive up pitch counts.
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I think it is wishful thinking on the Orioles part that [Jimenez] will be a more consistent pitcher in that division.
Jimenez made major adjustments to his mechanics and was dominant after he did that. He is an above average starting pitcher who is only 30 years old. In a league where Jason Vargas gets four years $32 million, Bronson Arroyo gets two years $23.5 million, Scott Feldman gets three years $30 million, and Phil Hughes gets 3 years $24 million; Jimenez is definitely worth four years $50 million.
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Bailey is a career .500 pitcher.
Are there really still people that judge pitchers by their win/loss records with all of the information we now know?
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It will be interesting to see how Jimenez will do without Callaway coaching him along the way. I seem to recall Callaway going down to the Dominican to work with Ubaldo last off-season. He really seemed to get him straightened out. I wonder if Ubaldo will go back to his former mess, or continue the improved path.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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It will be interesting, that's for sure. Also, Baltimore is a hitter's park to go along with the hitter's parks of divisional opponents in New York, Boston, and Toronto. Especially with Jimenez being a flyball pitcher.
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his era is 4.25 for his career. I'm sorry, but I don't think Bailey is worth 100 million. Let's not forget he is pitching on a great team that has been in the playoffs the past few years. And I still think Ubaldo is a horrible signing for the years. 3 months of good baseball isn't a big enough sample for me. Just my opinion.
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I don't think it's fair to Homer to list his career ERA when it includes his rough start. He has had an ERA of 3.68 and 3.49 the last 2 seasons while pitching over 200 innings each year.
Now, what I think will determine whether he is worth the money or not is if he can keep his WHIP at 1.1 like he did last year. He was never a low WHIP guy (including the minors), so if he can maintain that mark, then he's going to be a very fine pitcher. If not, then he'll go back to being a slightly above average guy.
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Thats a fair point. Just a firm believer in paying guys that have proven more. guys like cliff lee, and jared weaver signed for similar money, but more accomplished. Heck i have no problem paying david price, cc, verlander. Think those are much safer bets.
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Quote:
It will be interesting to see how Jimenez will do without Callaway coaching him along the way. I seem to recall Callaway going down to the Dominican to work with Ubaldo last off-season. He really seemed to get him straightened out. I wonder if Ubaldo will go back to his former mess, or continue the improved path.
I wish him the best. He seemed like a pretty good guy while he was with the Indians. Took a lot of flack from the media and fans (myself included) and never complained, but finished very strong.
I would not be surprised to see him struggle, as he's in a better division now, and he's out from under the umbrella of Tito and Mickey Callaway.
So what is our projected rotation at this point?
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Right now, it looks like the rotation will be:
Masterson
Kluber
Salazar
McAllister
Carrasco / Bauer / Marcum / Harang
Last edited by Dave; 02/18/14 01:02 PM.
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Thats a fair point. Just a firm believer in paying guys that have proven more. guys like cliff lee, and jared weaver signed for similar money, but more accomplished. Heck i have no problem paying david price, cc, verlander. Think those are much safer bets.
of course they are safer, but those guys are going to command far more than Homer got (6yr/$100mil) now. Cliff Lee signed a 5year/$120mil contract, which is significantly more and it was 3 years ago. Teams are much more flush with the local cable $$$ now and contracts are going up across the board.
Verlander got 7yrs/$180mil
Kershaw got 7yrs/$215mil
David Price is going to command somewhere in between.
It's a brand new day for baseball $$$.
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If we dont have an ace established, and masterson wants 100 million, i would let him walk and go after a true ace. If you"re going to spend that much on a 2/3, might as well pony up another 50 to 80 million and get the real deal. Ive always believed that. We let manny go for 30 to 40 million and it probably cost us a few world series. Thats my biggest complaint with dolan. He refuses to spend money on the superstars to put us over. Micheal bourn, swisher and brantley isnt enough.
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Masterson signs one year 9 million and change.
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I agree with you in theory that it can be better to have that superstar rather than a good player + an average one (also can save you from spending money on guys like Reynolds and Myers if that $$$ is all tied up already).
however, for a team with a budget like the Tribe, I do not see it making sense to have 1/3 of the entire payroll tied up on one player, especially a pitcher. Because we are not
and, we lost Manny to the Red Sox after the 2000 season. That team was old and losing it's edge already. I don't think signing him (and that money would have had to come from somewhere else, so we would have had to trim elsewhere) was going to help out those early 00's teams.
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Quote:
Right now, it looks like the rotation will be:
Masterson
Kluber
Salazar
McAllister
Carrasco / Bauer / Marcum / Harang
I would add Tomlin to that list.
Also, isn't Marcum coming off an injury? I thought I heard that he probably won't be ready for the start of the season but not sure about that.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Quote:
Right now, it looks like the rotation will be:
Masterson
Kluber
Salazar
McAllister
Carrasco / Bauer / Marcum / Harang
The last two spots in that rotation are scary. Also, Kluber is a bit of an unknown.
If Bauer can step his game up, fulfill his potential, and bump everyone down one spot then things look a lot better.
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Quote:
Quote:
Right now, it looks like the rotation will be:
Masterson
Kluber
Salazar
McAllister
Carrasco / Bauer / Marcum / Harang
The last two spots in that rotation are scary. Also, Kluber is a bit of an unknown.
If Bauer can step his game up, fulfill his potential, and bump everyone down one spot then things look a lot better.
if Kluber is a bit of an unknown, then what is Salazar? not to mention that Masterson didn't exactly look stellar in 2012. the entire rotation could be great or it could be our undoing. very intriguing part of our team.
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Indeed. At least Salazar comes with some pedigree. I am also not that high on Masterson, but if he performs like he did last year and not like he did in 2012 he is a near ace (it would help if he had some actual infield defense).
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Indeed. At least Salazar comes with some pedigree. I am also not that high on Masterson, but if he performs like he did last year and not like he did in 2012 he is a near ace (it would help if he had some actual infield defense).
and on Salazar(#1 on the list below) and Kluber(#19), if they can keep it up, then we might be able to rival most other pitching staffs in the AL:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/pitching-by-the-numbers--strikeouts-minus-walks-181543500.html
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love Francona: Quote:
I am proud to be a Cleveland Indian and a Clevelander. This is a great time for our city and our team. My father played here. We both think Cleveland and this organization are special. When I got the offer to come here, I knew it was the perfect place for me.
Baseball matters -- its values have not been lost to time. I tell the guys that wearing this uniform carries a responsibility. We know what our uniform stands for and what it means to our fans and our city. We don't expect to be handed wins or your respect; we intend to earn them both. We want you to be proud of the way we play. Come encourage us and hold us to it.
Whatever this season is, it will be special. You're going to remember it because we're working our butts off to make that memory a great one. This team has the drive and ability to contend. These guys are special not just because they are great players, but because they truly are a team; like Cleveland, they won't back down. It's a simple recipe of respect, loyalty, fun and the most determined work ethic in the league.
I love Cleveland and I love our team. We care about one another and good things happen when we play the game the right way.
Join the guys and me at Progressive Field for the 2014 season. Together, we'll make memories and take care of unfinished business.
Terry Francona is manager of the Cleveland Indians. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/cle/a-le...p;vkey=news_cle
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Say if Manny signed the 8 year deal with us in 2000. You don't think we could've won a world series during those 8 years? We would've had him and Cc as the cornerstones. Guys like Hafner, Sizemore, Martinez, Lee, Cabrera, and Westbrook all came via trade or the draft. We were only down from 02-04.
Out of all the guys that left during our run, manny was the one that needed resigned.
As far as the present, if we had a stronger farm system, maybe you don't sign a guy like swisher, and put that extra 56 million towards a guy like Price. I believe you have to build around someone. Even the frugal Rays have Longoria locked up for the next 15 years. The twins did it with Mauer, even though I would never build around him.
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Baseball is the last sport where you need to build around one player. Many of the best teams don't "build around one player," but have many quality players. The Red Sox, Cardinals, A's, Braves, Nationals, and Rays are built this way.
The Rays are not built around Longoria. They offered a contract to him that was favorable for both sides and he accepted.
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Marcum is coming off an injury. He's throwing, slightly behind everybody else, but is in routine right now. I seriously doubt that they start him in March/April. I imagine he'll stay behind in extended spring, go to Columbus in late April and be ready in May, if needed. Harang was the insurance policy, in my mind. Carrasco has a clear advantage for the #5 spot, Bauer will be in Columbus and I've got Tomlin in the pen. Just a guess for right now.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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first, if we had Manny, then we likely wouldn't have made the Colon trade (Manny leaving entered us into a time of restocking the farm system). So, no Lee, Sizemore. we would have had CC for a little while, but no guarantees we even get him on that first hometown discount extension before he leaves.
So, I disagree. You cannot commit that much of your payroll towards one player in baseball. In basketball, it's smart business. In football, if that player is an elite QB, then 1/6 of your payroll is the current going rate. In baseball, it is suicide for your team.
my opinion of course.
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Longoria is the face of that franchise, plus he the best 3rd baseman in the game. Hes a reason to go to the ballpark every day. every good team has one of these players. The brewers have braun. The braves just locked up freeman. The indians dont resign theirs, and refuse to spend the money to go get one.
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[Longoria] is the best 3rd baseman in the game
Did Beltre retire?
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Hes a reason to go to the ballpark every day.
Rays' fans disagree.
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every good team has one of these players.
Every good team has good players? I would agree with that.
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Say if Manny signed the 8 year deal with us in 2000. You don't think we could've won a world series during those 8 years? We would've had him and Cc as the cornerstones. Guys like Hafner, Sizemore, Martinez, Lee, Cabrera, and Westbrook all came via trade or the draft. We were only down from 02-04.
Signing Manny would of crippled our ability to do just about anything rosterwise. We may have had guys like CC, etc ... but most of the trades and resigning of guys we did would of been extremely limited.
Everyone seems to forget this, but Boston was trying to unload that Manny contract for years before they won the Series with him. They even put him on waivers at one point. Even for a "big market" team like Boston, it is was a difficult pill to swallow.
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Out of all the guys that left during our run, manny was the one that needed resigned.
He was a heck of a player, but we DID offer him an already ridiculously large contact. It's not like they just let him walk. Boston just offered slightly more. That contract would of killed us if we got into a bidding war with Boston.
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Even the frugal Rays have Longoria locked up for the next 15 years. The twins did it with Mauer, even though I would never build around him.
And look what's happened to the Twins since. They've struggled mightily, and can't do much about it because they're stuck with that Mauer contract.
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I think we could have pulled it off. Up to 2002 the indians were always top 10 in payroll. In 2001 we were 5th at 91 million. We havn't had that high of a payroll since. So it's not like the indians have never paid like some teams(pitt& oakland) It's really hard to speculate on their finances, since we aren't privy to the books, but since Dolan bought the team, he has almost doubled his investment. team is valued at $559 million, spent $323 million.
But say they signed him to the 8 yrs $160 million, our payroll would've never hit $100 million, except for 01, when it would've been slightly over. We did sign guys like Juan Gonzalez to replace Manny.
These were our payrolls starting in 98
1998 $59 million 6th
1999 $73 million 4th
2000 $75 million 8th (Dolan takes over)
2001 $91 million 5th
2002 $78 million 9th
2003 $48 million 26th
2004 $34 million 27th
2005 $41 million 26th
2006 $56 million 25th
2007 $61 million 23rd
2008 $78 million 16th
I only see 2008 where payroll might have been an issue. You had guys like Cc, Lee, Hafner, Grady starting to earn better money. But that was the year we traded Cc, so we probably could've traded Manny once we started to fade.
John Hart really wanted to sign Manny, but Dolan kept low-balling him, and only offered manny an 8 year deal once Boston's offer was already on the table. The backlash from decisons not to resign any of his starts still haunts Dolan today. His attendance wouldn't be nearly as bad, if he ever signed a Manny, Cc, or Lee. Fans just don't trust that guy.
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The guy never saw a pitch that he didn't think he could hit. Pitchers learned this and just stayed away from him and he swung himself out of the majors. Supposedly, he got LASIK and feels like he'll be much more selective. I'll believe it when I see it.
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Francoeur has been one of the worst players in the league the last several years. He brings nothing to the table offensively and can't really field anymore. If he makes the team it is a bad thing.
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As recently as 2011 he had 20 HR, 87 RBIs, .285 avg, with 22 SB, 47 doubles, 4 triples, and an OPS of .805. Production and avg dropped off in 2012, and then disappeared in 2013. If he makes the team, it might be because he regained his old form, so not necessarily a bad thing for the Indians.
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By drop off do you mean totally unplayable?
He had a pretty good season in 2011, but that is his only good season as a full time player since 2007. And even in 2011 his advanced stats showed that he was playing above his abilities.
If Francoeur makes the team the Indians are doing something wrong.
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