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Oh lord this is a great problem to have. We have two guys who may be good enough to win with, and we will not be forced to reach. We can take our time and go after the guy we really want. If we have to move up to get him that's fine we can do so. If we think he will be there later in the first round we can grab him then, or if we think he will be there in 2015 we can work with that as well. Man it's nice to have choices 
This is key. We do not have to panic, overreact and reach for a guy, like we did with Weeden.
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You are making wild speculations. You don't know that Banner is making the decision. In fact, Banner has said several times that Chud, Farmer, Lombardi, and himself make the decisions together.
We really don't know what kind of QB Banner favors. Methinks he favors one that can win. I think he'll let Farmer, Chud, and Lombardi do more of the evaluating.
You forgot to mention that Manzel is similar to Russel Wilson and the latter is doing pretty darn good in the pros.
I think there is a lot of evaluating to be done and nothing is even close to being set in stone at this time.
I'm asking because I don't know: did Russell Wilson have a "one read and run" style in college? If so, that gives me more belief that someone like Manziel could translate to the NFL. His quickness to bail out of the pocket and run scares the crap out of me.
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Re: Which QB Going Forward? (Next Year):
I was gonna ask the same question at another Browns board but have been working 6 days a week, so it's hard to do anything....
So far from what I've seen if I had to pick someone I would pick Campbell over Hoyer, as I think he has a slight edge, but wouldn't be upset if it was the other way around....Not at all.
-Off to bed.
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I'm asking because I don't know: did Russell Wilson have a "one read and run" style in college? If
Nope. Wilson played and excelled in a WCO at two different schools with different terminologies. It's the main reason I had him as the third QB in that draft for us.
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" You are making wild speculations."
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When you look at organizational structure in this case you have the owner, then you have the president. Joe Banner is not in the position of president to have Lombardi, Farmer or his head coach make the final say of this kind of decision. He does not strike me as the type of person to put his reputation and career in someone elses hands. Will he consult them ? Yes, that would be logical but in the end the "final decision" will be his. I don't see that as "wild speculation" he hired the people under him.
Now as far as the kind of quarterback he wants that to a degree is speculation. I am going on what was done in Philadelphia.
When the draft comes along you can only take what is available to you if you can not find a trading partner.
I can not predict what kind of pro Manziel will be. One thing I can say about him is: He is unconventional. Character and leadership qualities? I have no idea. But they have been questioned.
As you said there is still along way to go. It is my opinion though when the draft ends the Browns will have another quarterback on the team. I do not believe it will be Manziel.
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Truthfully, with as good as Hoyer played and Jason too, I won't be the least bit upset if they devote a lot to acquire another QB in the draft. Sooner or later, we will obtain that so-called "franchise qb" and then this team will turn around. We seen bad qb's, several of them. We seen some instances where a decent-to-good QB can do for us. It's clear in the NFL, you're not getting anywhere positive without a quality QB. If we are going to go that route, let us PRAY we don't pickup another Brandon Weeden.  Let us pray that the people involved in evaluating potential QBs have more insight than the great, but truthfully not so great, Mike Holmgren.
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I read a month or so ago that we were sending Farmer to Manziel's Games...and it was plural.
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That is Farmer and others job. In addition, Manziel is not the only NFL prospect on the A&M roster.
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"Without a doubt it will be Lombardi's call."
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Really? So, when does the GM override the president? Was not Lombardi hired by Banner?
Didn't the Browns just go through this with the Weeden decision? Did Heckert want Weeden in the first round?
Does Joe Banner strike you as the type of guy to put this decision that will shape the team and define his career in the hands of the people he hired?
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"All the prototype stuff - ehhh...I'm looking at footwork, release and accuracy...I like what I see. "
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I don't know Johnny Manziel personally. However, his character, his decisions off the field, and his ability to be the leader of an NFL team have come to be questioned. There is risk there.
At 6'1" 210lb running all over college fields he is dominant. Does that translate to the NFL? How many seasons has Mike Vick finished? RGIII and the read option are getting figured out by NFL defenses. Even Aaron Rodgers a smallish mobile guy just got his collarbone broke. Running around an NFL field is not the same as college. Russell Wilson although small is also very much under control. He gets rid of the ball quickly. When he does run he knows when and how to slide. He rarely takes the big hits. There is risk there.
The Browns will draft a quarterback ( or maybe trade for one maybe Mallett?). My opinion, Manziel will not be a Brown and Joe Banner will make this decision.
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You are making wild speculations. You don't know that Banner is making the decision. In fact, Banner has said several times that Chud, Farmer, Lombardi, and himself make the decisions together.
In the end, Banner has the final say. He is the head of football operations and if he permits others to make such decision, he made the decision to do that.
I do believe everyone's input is taken into account, but the final decisions of what happens here lay on his shoulders.
Last edited by Referee2; 11/09/13 06:39 AM.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Glad we're talking about Manziel.
Mariota had a tough one last night. Made a mess of that wide open pass downfield at the beginning. If he hits that maybe he gets his rythmn and the game shifts. Still, oregon got &^%$#slapped on the line of scrimmage on both ends of the ball. No running game, and receivers who can only dream of playing at the level of Winston's.
A couple years ago Toad was going through Griffin's inability to avoid the big hit and how it may carry over to the pros. It appears he's right. He's taking some hellacious hits! It appears to me that the ability to slip, slide, and never give the tackler a solid surface is a skill. Rodgers has it (He knew where McClellin was but never believed he would slip that block and get there that quickly), Peyton, Eli, Brees, Brady, etc... they don't get blown up.
Manziel is a lean, wiry, guy. Even indirect hits concern me. The NFL is an entirely different ballgame.
No chance Lombardi is making this decision on his own.
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I don't know much about Manziel except that he is the latest Hype-Fest in college ball, but if he is a lean, wiry, one-read-and-run kinda "QB"... then we had better steer the Hell clear of him. That combination is a wasted pick waiting to happen.
All of that aside, the thing that I'm loving about our season this year is that we have one big thing answered: Our offense isn't holding our QB's back. We have definitively seen that everything else on the offense is more than good enough (except perhaps the RB position) and we just need a QB to make it go. Gone are the years and debates on whether the QB is sucking or the line is sucking, or perhaps the QB is Ok or he's just getting bailed out by his receivers, or maybe the WR's are letting him down, etc, etc, etc.... THAT is the big positive of our QB Carousel this year. That also means that going into next year, whomever we do take we can see very, very quickly whether or not they can cut it.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Glad we're talking about Manziel.
Mariota had a tough one last night. Made a mess of that wide open pass downfield at the beginning. If he hits that maybe he gets his rythmn and the game shifts. Still, oregon got &^%$#slapped on the line of scrimmage on both ends of the ball. No running game, and receivers who can only dream of playing at the level of Winston's.
A couple years ago Toad was going through Griffin's inability to avoid the big hit and how it may carry over to the pros. It appears he's right. He's taking some hellacious hits! It appears to me that the ability to slip, slide, and never give the tackler a solid surface is a skill. Rodgers has it (He knew where McClellin was but never believed he would slip that block and get there that quickly), Peyton, Eli, Brees, Brady, etc... they don't get blown up.
Manziel is a lean, wiry, guy. Even indirect hits concern me. The NFL is an entirely different ballgame.
No chance Lombardi is making this decision on his own.
I'm starting to come around on Wilson being a better overall player than RG3.
He's leading his team to wins, I do think his team is more talented than Washington, which I don't think many would argue.
He takes better care of himself on the field. He avoids those big hits. He gets down when he needs to.
He doesn't have ridiculous stats, but he's a really good fit for that team. I can see him still doing this 5 years from now. 5 years from now how will RG3 look at this pace?
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j/c
I remember reading where Wilson has enormous hands...and not just for a guy his size.
I also remember reading where Manziel has average sized hands.
I think that goes a long way to how a QB will fair when moving up to the NFL.
If you are going to the NFL as an under-sized guy, you better have something special in your arsenal.
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I also remember reading where Manziel has average sized hands.
I have heard the exact opposite. (What is the opposite of average? Not average?)
Anyway:
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Wilson and Manziel share another trait. Both have exceptionally large hands. Wilson also has long (31-inch) arms, which along with his size 10 1/4 hands help make up for his height.
Link
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Kingsbury continued in a "trust me" tone. "The ball just jumps out of his hand. … His hand is so big it just engulfs yours. It really helps that he can wrap his hand all the way around the ball. … There's nothing 'little' about him. He's put together [and listed at 200 pounds]."
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As for his size, Manziel weighs 210 pounds. He has XXL hands and wears size 15 shoes. He is only 20 years old, so there is hope he grows.
Link 3
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I don't know much about Manziel except that he is the latest Hype-Fest in college ball, but if he is a lean, wiry, one-read-and-run kinda "QB"... then we had better steer the Hell clear of him. That combination is a wasted pick waiting to happen.
The only way I'm okay with taking him is if he falls to a draft spot appropriate for his value (doubt it).
And if we do draft him at the lower spot, I think he's one who REALLY would need to sit and learn.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Wilson is one heck of a QB. I had said that if we passed on a QB in the 1st round, he was a guy I hoped we would look at later in the draft.
As far as which QB is the better QB .... Wilson has one advantage that RG3 does not, and it's a huge one. The Seattle defense allows Wilson a chance to win every week by limiting the damage by the opposition. Despite a few blips, where Wilson has done a great job of bringing the team back, they still only allow 16.6 PPG. (3rd best in the NFL) The Redskins are 2nd last in the league 31.9 PPG allowed. The Redskins allow almost twice as many points as the Seahawks. That helps a QB a great deal.
As I said above though ... the Seahawks defense has had a couple of games where they allowed quite a few points early on, and where the offense had to stage huge comebacks in order to win the games.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Side note.
A few weeks ago I asked a group of young football players:
Luck, Wilson, Griffin, or Kapernick?
The response surprised me. It was about 90% to one guy.
Guess which one? And, tell me why you think they may have immediately responded to me with their choice.
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Russell Wilson, because he's kid-sized (relatively speaking).
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Quote:
Quote:
Glad we're talking about Manziel.
Mariota had a tough one last night. Made a mess of that wide open pass downfield at the beginning. If he hits that maybe he gets his rythmn and the game shifts. Still, oregon got &^%$#slapped on the line of scrimmage on both ends of the ball. No running game, and receivers who can only dream of playing at the level of Winston's.
A couple years ago Toad was going through Griffin's inability to avoid the big hit and how it may carry over to the pros. It appears he's right. He's taking some hellacious hits! It appears to me that the ability to slip, slide, and never give the tackler a solid surface is a skill. Rodgers has it (He knew where McClellin was but never believed he would slip that block and get there that quickly), Peyton, Eli, Brees, Brady, etc... they don't get blown up.
Manziel is a lean, wiry, guy. Even indirect hits concern me. The NFL is an entirely different ballgame.
No chance Lombardi is making this decision on his own.
I'm starting to come around on Wilson being a better overall player than RG3.
He's leading his team to wins, I do think his team is more talented than Washington, which I don't think many would argue.
He takes better care of himself on the field. He avoids those big hits. He gets down when he needs to.
He doesn't have ridiculous stats, but he's a really good fit for that team. I can see him still doing this 5 years from now. 5 years from now how will RG3 look at this pace?
I thought for sure Wilson was a backyard football QB and would be exposed this year. Man, was I wrong. He has been impressive. He's incredibly smart. Watching him is like watching someone think faster than everyone else. I think he has an incredible feel for the game.
Having said that, I see a lot of gloating and I told you so's floating around here about RG3. I don't get it. He is an elite talent. He is more talented than Wilson. He is a more gifted passer for sure. He had a rough start to the season, but he is turning it around. My guess is he is going to be just fine moving forward and continue to be the franchise QB for the Redskins for years.
I still make that trade for RG3 today, no doubt, without hesitation.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Did you watch the Gruden quarterback shows that year?
In those, it was clear that Wilson was smart. Intelligent, but also game smart. Very much so.
Weeden...
not so much
Weeden came off to me as a guy who would never really put in all the time needed/necessary to correct his flaws. A guy who would never put in Manning, Brady, type of film work. Wilson on the other hand came off as the one guy who would do whatever it took in order to be successful.
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Russell Wilson, because he's kid-sized (relatively speaking).
Nope
And, I live in Boise where there are a bunch of bandwagoning seahawks.
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Probably Kaepernick.
I have no idea why.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Probably Kaepernick.
I have no idea why.
made the Superbowl last year and is all inked up. he'd be my guess too.
side note: absolutely love that he has "my gift" on the inside of this throwing arm and "is my curse" on the inside of his non-throwing arm. always great to display psalms and use some humor in it. well played.
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I was going to guess Kaep too.
My next guess would be RG3 just because he got so much pub his rookie year.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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"Really? So, when does the GM override the president? Was not Lombardi hired by Banner?" So by your reasoning Randy Lerner would over ride Mangini. He was the President...
Of course its apple to oranges in comparison so was Holmgren n Heckert. It is apparent that Lombardi has the trust of Banner. There is no doubt in my mind that Lombardi will have the majority say...of course Banner will say...YES n possibly for some inane reason will NIX his suggestion which I just cannot see.
Farmer that is his job??? I don't get that response as a XXX out of what was stated???
Actually the way it was stated was not even a mention of A&M...just that Farmer was going to Manziel's games to scout him. Obviously he's not going to ignore Evans??? or Matthews. Probably he will ignore the defensive players 
But have you heard of Farmer going to Oregon? UCLA? All I know is I read it on an article...either here or the Browns board by posters.
I have not heard another QB mentioned in specifics.
Of course I cannot guarantee which way we are going. All I know is come March, April n May we won't be able to trust anything said then cause everything is cloak n dagger by then. As mentioned of course he won't run like in college. Doesn't change his accuracy his footwork his arm/release and his penchant to make plays.
Does Joe Banner strike you as the type of guy to put this decision that will shape the team and define his career in the hands of the people he hired?
Got news for you...if he does not then he sucks as the President CEO...
and his ability to be the leader of an NFL team have come to be questioned.
Actually field Leadership is one of his strong attributes...don't know where you are hearing this...can you expound on it??? What ever was happening off the field quite frankly it was so just NEWS in a dead zone - Haven't heard one peep about it since football actually started. As in there is no problem...but whatever it was...I know it had nothing to do with his Leadership qualities. He's an excellent team leader n I can see him become quite infectious.
Also as stated I can see him sitting for a Season. Hoyer and/or Campbell will have us in no hurry.
Vick had a problem his Atlanta stint on being a pocket passer. Manziel can throw in the pocket. Just like RG3 can throw in the pocket...just cause they can run n Vick ran - he ain't the mirror image of these guys.
Btw he is very similar in size as Hoyer.
lol...@ Rodgers...any QB going down at the wrong angle with Big Guy's weight on him will break the collar bone just the same. From a Big Ben to a Keenum that collar bone is similarly exposed.
Read Option...who said we are going to utilize the read option...I don't want that here. You got to separate college from NFL we are not A & M. He will run OUR OFFENSE. Be mobile in the pocket hit his windows accurately and if need be extend the play with his elusiveness. Who say he will run teh read option. I wan an RB n Two TE offense...why RG3 is getting killed...why Manziel is getting killed in Texas...we aren't going to run a college offense...he is going to run our NFL offense.
Odds of naming ONE QB and actually have the Browns take them are NOT BETTING ODDS that is for sure. He has to be available. He has to be wanted by us.
All I know is we are taking a special interest to him not shown to any other QB...does that me we aren't scouting anyone else? Of course not. All I know is Farmer was seen there early n often.
And we would be lucky to get him. Mallett? I don't see us opting for him not when we got Hoyer and/or Campbell. But you never know...that baby has been around since the day Lombardi was hired...oh wait, Banner makes the decision not Lombardi so there is no connection to that rumor... 
I for one can say 100% sure...I don't know what is going to happen. But in Lombardi's hands I'm going to trust...not Banner. It wasn't Banner talking up Hoyer before we went and got him...It wasn't Banner who was criticizing the Browns choice of Weeden. As much as I am shocked  but Lombardi is looking better n better to me.
JMHO
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Farmer has attended one of his games. How does that translate to paying special attention not given to other QB's?
I can't say one way or another how high our interest in Manziel is, though I hope it's not much.
He's too high of a bust risk to consider in the first round. I could live with him the third, but I'd wince.
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Quote:
I'm asking because I don't know: did Russell Wilson have a "one read and run" style in college? If so, that gives me more belief that someone like Manziel could translate to the NFL. His quickness to bail out of the pocket and run scares the crap out of me.
Nice. Not sure if you did it intentionally, but you pretty much nailed me. Kudos to you.
Wilson did not play in one of those Micky-Mouse offenses at either NC St or Wisconsin. Good call by you.
I was thinking of how they move around, their arm strength, their grittiness, how they make plays out of nothing, their height, etc. However, you brought up a great point about what kinds of systems they play in and Wilson's certainly prepared him better for the NFL than Manzel's.
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bone and Pit:
Come on, guys. This has been posted on the board several times and there was a thread dedicated to it.
Banner clearly stated that the Browns decide who to draft by getting input from Lombardi, Farmer, Chud, and himself and then they come to a consensus. The media pressed him and he said it hadn't come to that yet, but if it did, he would break the tie. Will someone back me up on that, so we can end the nonsense.
My point wasn't to bad mouth you, bone. I was trying to say that it's a group decision. I actually love how we are going about making decisions. Hopefully, it will limit the number of stupid moves like we had w/TRich and Weeden.
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Quote:
bone and Pit:
Come on, guys. This has been posted on the board several times and there was a thread dedicated to it.
Banner clearly stated that the Browns decide who to draft by getting input from Lombardi, Farmer, Chud, and himself and then they come to a consensus. The media pressed him and he said it hadn't come to that yet, but if it did, he would break the tie. Will someone back me up on that, so we can end the nonsense.
My point wasn't to bad mouth you, bone. I was trying to say that it's a group decision. I actually love how we are going about making decisions. Hopefully, it will limit the number of stupid moves like we had w/TRich and Weeden.
Yes that's correct. Banner said its a group decision but in case of a tie he'd break the tie.
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Quote:
Quote:
bone and Pit:
Come on, guys. This has been posted on the board several times and there was a thread dedicated to it.
Banner clearly stated that the Browns decide who to draft by getting input from Lombardi, Farmer, Chud, and himself and then they come to a consensus. The media pressed him and he said it hadn't come to that yet, but if it did, he would break the tie. Will someone back me up on that, so we can end the nonsense.
My point wasn't to bad mouth you, bone. I was trying to say that it's a group decision. I actually love how we are going about making decisions. Hopefully, it will limit the number of stupid moves like we had w/TRich and Weeden.
Yes that's correct. Banner said its a group decision but in case of a tie he'd break the tie.
I though that he said that if there was a tie on a particular player that they would move on to the next player.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I though that he said that if there was a tie on a particular player that they would move on to the next player.
This is what I re-call as well.
The team will use a consensus approach. I believe this fresh approach will be the model to be followed. I was exited when I heard this was our approach to players and have no reason to doubt the effectiveness.
Hopefully like another mentioned, this will lessen the risk of making bad choices.
When the time comes in the offseason, I for one am looking forward to where this approach takes us.
Until then, go Ravens  , give us that opportunity to play Cincinnatti for a tie of the AFC North!!!
If I only knew then what I know today...
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Legend
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Legend
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I quoted this but the source wasn't proper, so I'll post it again from a better source. This is from an interview with Terry Pluto.......... Q: But someone has the final word, right? A: Unambiguously, the answer is me. No matter if I'm making the decision or those we employ are making it, I'm accountable. I'm perfectly willing to take the blame. Hopefully, it goes well, and (everyone) gets some credit. http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2013/07/cleveland_browns_ceo_joe_banne_1.htmlAs I said, I'm sure he takes everyone's input into consideration. He may even decide to let others make the decision. But for better or worse, those are his decisions to make and he is the one ultimately accountable for them. I believe you are 100% right that looking at the opinions of more people and valuing their input lessens the odds of desperation picks and the structure set in place appears far better than what we had before. More input from more people should equal better decisions. So I like it. But in the corporate structure, someone has to have final say on such matters, and to me, Banner made that quite clear here.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Back to the question of the thread.  I still believe we have seen two QB's with very short windows with which to draw conclusions. You pointed out that you believe the coaching staff was "surprised" by Campbell's production. I disagreed with you when it pertains to the short term. I believe many QB's can come in and look good for a few games until your opponents get a good look and some film on them in a new system. I'm not so sure however if they can maintain that level of production moving forward for any length of time. So I'm not really sure we have the answer of a QB that can win with any consistently going forward next year. I certainly can't say that about Hoyer given a very small sample size of two games. I also feel that we'll have to see what Campbell can do the rest of the way before he actually answers that question. What we do know is with average or above QB play, this team has the talent to win. What we don't know is if we have a QB on the roster who can give us such play for any extended period of time....... yet. JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Hall of Famer
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Thanks for the correction...clearly I had Manziel confused with someone else...McCoy maybe.
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Legend
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I think (hope) that by the end of this season, we can look at Campbell and say, hey, if the guy we believe in isn't in this draft, we don't have to reach because of Campbell. He can run the show until the right guy that we can all agree on comes along.
I hope that's what happens. I believe we have two decent choices at QB on this team right now. Hoyer and Campbell. I wish we'd have seen more of Hoyer but what I saw gave me hope that he can do the job up to a point.
I just don't want us to make a rash decision. I can live another year without a franchise QB if we have these two and together than can get us through the year.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm asking because I don't know: did Russell Wilson have a "one read and run" style in college? If so, that gives me more belief that someone like Manziel could translate to the NFL. His quickness to bail out of the pocket and run scares the crap out of me.
Nice. Not sure if you did it intentionally, but you pretty much nailed me. Kudos to you.
Wilson did not play in one of those Micky-Mouse offenses at either NC St or Wisconsin. Good call by you.
I was thinking of how they move around, their arm strength, their grittiness, how they make plays out of nothing, their height, etc. However, you brought up a great point about what kinds of systems they play in and Wilson's certainly prepared him better for the NFL than Manzel's.
Thanks. It's never my intention to nail anyone, at least not in the football threads. I really don't know that much about college football so I ask questions. I have had some time to pay attention to Johnny this year but that is about it.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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I don't mind being corrected. I wasn't completely wrong, but I left out a very important part. You pointed that out and we all learned from it, and learning is what it is all about.
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Legend
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No problemo Vers.
I have no doubt that they will all huddle up to discuss. That is why they implement organizational structure, have titles, and separate responsibilities. Each member of management brings his perspective. But in the end it is Banner that weighs it all and makes the call.
Not a thing wrong with that decision making process. If the right decision is made.
Holmgren said the same thing. That he was the tie breaker. The problem was draft day. Holmgren was proved to be wrong.
So far I have agreed with Banner and his management team. I sure hope they get this coming draft right because to me this draft will define the Browns for at least five years.
I have no idea if Manziel's game will translate to the NFL. However, unlike eotab I really doubt that Manziel will be the pick.
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Legend
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"So by your reasoning Randy Lerner would over ride Mangini. He was the President..."
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What? Did I say anything about Lerner a guy who wanted nothing to do with the team other than let someone else run it?
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Holmgren and Heckert is not much different than Banner and Lombardi. Holmgren and Banner were and now are the president. They hired their GM's. Holmgren said the same thing as Banner. Decisions would be made as a group and that he would be the tie breaker. Not apples and oranges. Apples and apples.
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"There is no doubt in my mind that Lombardi will have the majority say"
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You are entitled to your opinion. However, that does not make it a fact. "Majority say" has no definition in this context.
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Ray Farmer - Assistant General Manager. Have no idea who he has gone to see. Makes no difference at this point in time that he went to see Texas A&M. My guess is he will try to see as much as possible and review every prospect the Browns want to scout all the way to the draft.
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"Of course I cannot guarantee which way we are going. "
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None of us can. We can only speculate based upon the past.
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Look as far as Manziel I have no idea if his game will translate to the NFL.
He is prospect who I'm sure the Browns will look at as they will all others that they consider to be worth it.
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There are reasons right or wrong why they size prospects by position. Their overall dimensions are a factor, just like arm strength. That does not mean it is the sole factor. Certainly we know that arm strength is not the only factor in how good a quarterback will be. Smaller guys like Vick, Brees, RGIII, Wilson, and Rodgers have all been successful but it is no surprise that when they go past the LOS carrying the ball big guys hurt smaller guys. Just physics.
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So far, I applaud the decisions that have been made by Banner and company.
I sure hope that in this coming draft that they make the right choices at all positions drafted but in particular the quarterback. In my opinion, as Holmgren once said: " There will no decision as important as the one we make on the quarterback".
Because right or wrong it will define the direction of this team for many years to come.
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Legend
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You are entitled to your opinion. However, that does not make it a fact. "Majority say" has no definition in this context. Well that's rather convenient. As Vers suggested the Committee effect will be in place. Also if we remember Banner has stated that Lombardi n he think as one. Not that Lombardi will manipulate Banner just that Banner trusts him in an area that he has an inkling but respects Lombardi as one who knows more. No not written in some contract and yes its opinion but usually I have a good read regarding these relationships. It makes sense to me. I did not see Banner or Farmer's fingerprints on the QB decisions made this year.
As far as the Randy comment bonefish...I myself took it off the table and stated its comparing Apples to Oranges. I do not remotely see a similar relationship or order of things done as with Holmgren n Heckert. If you wish to compare Apples to Oranges and state them as a FACT for this regime...that was my point bringing in RANDY as an Obvious that it isn't the same. Well possibly different. Holmgren was a Coach, GM and both he had a different background than Banner. Holmbren came right out and said he would be hands on with the QB...how can you sit there and state as a fact that Banner is going to do the same.
It will be via committee but no doubt in my mind Lombardi will have the floor and rarely will there be an argument. He seems to have a grasp of Chud's system as well as Norv's I don't see the "COMMITTEE" disagreeing with his judgment. Of course Farmer is feeding him a lot or data.
PDR: A game as mentioned it was plural. A Bozo mistake??? As stated it makes sense cause he just might be THE GUY who will be available at our slots. Possibly after scouting the decision will be that its not a good move??? I don't know. But most of the others mentioned will go in the top 10. For us to get into the top ten especially with us finishing around .500 who knows a little less or a little more...we would have to give up so much more. Also mentioned in all this is the fact that Hoyer and Campbell one or both has the skills to succeed in this Offense. Possibly NOT the Superstar. But this will have us not make a move out of desperation. Possibly we have ammo to move up a couple of slots as our GUY gets closer to us and we fear somebody jumping us...yes I can see us doing that. But not this 3 First Round + investment that will be needed to move up and get one of the TOP QBs....it will be a Rodgers type or a Wilson type who the Industry standard will say he's too small too slight, injured...let them be SNOBS...good - the question we will have to answer is DO WE THINK HE IS A SUPER STAR...I think Manziel has superstar written all over him. Usually that means he will maybe start out as a possibility with our slotting...but come draft day move up to the Number two spot. Just like around this time of the year I was spouting off that we should take RG3 with #22 or whatever that 2nd first would be...I was laughed at by the board experts and told RG3...pfft we can get him with our 2nd round pick...yep, how did that go 
I'm just hoping the purist let Manziel drop. Will it be him? I cannot predict. Just know he might be the guy who will drop to our slot. We have watched him enough to KNOW if he is going to be SPECIAL or not. We will have the time to bring him up the RIGHT WAY! We have probably the best coaching staff to create him into an NFL SUPERSTAR.
Thats all I'm saying and as always.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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